Do doubles players get respect at your club?

[WYK]

At any given time, most courts are playing doubles in my club. We have 6 courts and nearly 400 members.
Doubles are played by all ages, whether in competitions or not.
Oftentimes more people show up to cheer the doubles as more people know who are playing, and it's very entertaining.

Here's our club:

And here's some badasses from Hawaii

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Let’s not change the original point of this thread which as someone stated correctly was a dumb one. I see the original post has since been edited as OP saw most disagreed with his original stance.

Let’s not bring up nationals and sectionals or that there might be folks good at both singles and doubles.

This was a simple original post where the assertion was made that you have to play singles to get respect in a given club. As others have pointed out there are many crappy singles players out there as well and many excellent players who play doubles predominantly as they no longer have the wheels or stamina to play singles. Lumping them all into two giant buckets of singles vs doubles players never made any sense.

Makes sense, I didn't bring up sectionals or nationals, I merely responded. As many have also pointed out, including myself, it's not really respect, it's more that people who are never playing singles or singles tournaments are merely thought of as more doubles guys than tennis players. It's always "Bob is a great doubles player", "Bob has a great serve for doubles" , "Bob has great hands" and not "Bob is one of the best players at the club". As an example.

You are the first poster to actually answer the question in the OP - took only 45 posts!

I answered no really in a more wordy way for the environments I play in. Are you going to enter an open level singles tourney this summer for fun?

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

At any given time, most courts are playing doubles in my club. We have 6 courts and nearly 400 members.

Yikes!

 

[socallefty]

We have 6 courts

We have 22 courts and a lot more members. So, there are singles club tournaments, a singles ladder and 2 times of the week when the club organizes singles matches in addition to members playing social singles with their friends. In addition, the club hosts UTR or USTA tournaments often too where some members sign up to play. Still I would say that 80% of the adult male members and 98% of the adult women seem to play only doubles. Those who play both singles and doubles are very rare, but everyone knows who they are if they are 4.5+ as they tend to do well in the club tournaments and ladders.

 

[WYK]

Yikes!

Well, OK, it's not as bad as it sounds. Most members are families.
So the courts are not as crowded at night or evenings.

I am also a member of a club in Waterford that has only 4 courts. But I usually only go there on occasion as a friend is the captain down there, and I live over an hour away nowadays.
It came in handy during lockdown as I snuck in and played a lot of singles back then since it's out of the way.

 

[WYK]

We have 22 courts and a lot more members. So, there are singles club tournaments, a singles ladder and 2 times of the week when the club organizes singles matches in addition to members playing social singles with their friends. In addition, the club hosts UTR or USTA tournaments often too where some members sign up to play. Still I would say that 80% of the adult male members and 98% of the adult women seem to play only doubles. Those who play both singles and doubles are very rare, but everyone knows who they are if they are 4.5+ as they tend to do well in the club tournaments and ladders.

Nearly all clubs in Ireland, regardless of size, have open weeks and national events during the summer. We just rotate them amongst all of us.
The good thing is ya get to see other clubs. The bad thing is the last match I played started at 11pm!
But, then again, in Ireland in summer it's still light out at 11pm.

 

[mcs1970]

Makes sense, I didn't bring up sectionals or nationals, I merely responded.

If the OP was that a singles tourney winner is regarded as a better overall player than the doubles winners who don’t participate in singles, it generally won’t meet with much opposition.

However when one states that playing singles confers some automatic level of respect and that doubles only players are not respected much (which was the original post before it was edited) then it is going to meet with a lot of ridicule as seen on this thread.

 

[travlerajm]

This thread is useless without pics.

 

[WYK]

This thread is useless without pics.

County Wicklow Lawn tennis Club(Bray, Ireland):

 

[jaxadam]

Don't worry everyone knows, or they talk like that behind other player's backs, for sure.

I’m glad I don’t hang out with those people!

 

[mcs1970]

This thread is useless without pics.

Singles or Doubles….Tennis Players are friends.

Pickleballers are the enemy. @ByeByePoly

 

[sureshs]

I play both and am respected for both

 

[travlerajm]

I play both and am respected for both

You also play mixed. Triple threats are held with high esteem.

 

[sureshs]

You also play mixed. Triple threats are held with high esteem.

I also play singles with women so that makes a fourth threat in a gender fluid continuum

 

[ByeByePoly]

Singles or Doubles….Tennis Players are friends.

Pickleballers are the enemy. @ByeByePoly

Does anyone else see the irony of any of us posting here worrying about respect?

That horse left the barn.

 

[Bud]

I don't think there is any question that singles player tend to be the best players on any team. Seems to be a trend in every section/district I've played.

The best singles players, only. If they rarely play doubles, they usually suck. It's unusual to find good club players who are good at both.

 

[WYK]

Does anyone else see the irony of any of us posting here worrying about respect?

That horse left the barn.

Now now, not all of us post in the General Pro Player Discussion forum, after all

I think its interesting how this forum has changed. I've been here since before the purge and moving to a new format. Around 2004 or so.
The maturity that once was here has diminished a bit(see this thread). Posters appear to be a fair bit younger, and a fair bit more flippant with each other and superficial amongst themselves.
Well, the internet in general has gone that way, so it's not only here.
Still, other sites didn't use to tell people to avoid Talk Tennis. They used to point to us as a source.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Now now, not all of us post in the General Pro Player Discussion forum, after all

I think its interesting how this forum has changed. I've been here since before the purge and moving to a new format. Around 2004 or so.
The maturity that once was here has diminished a bit(see this thread). Posters appear to be a fair bit younger, and a fair bit more flippant with each other and superficial amongst themselves.
Well, the internet in general has gone that way, so it's not only here.
Still, other sites didn't use to tell people to avoid Talk Tennis. They used to point to us as a source.

oh … we are a “source”

 

[ByeByePoly]

Now now, not all of us post in the General Pro Player Discussion forum, after all

I think its interesting how this forum has changed. I've been here since before the purge and moving to a new format. Around 2004 or so.
The maturity that once was here has diminished a bit(see this thread). Posters appear to be a fair bit younger, and a fair bit more flippant with each other and superficial amongst themselves.
Well, the internet in general has gone that way, so it's not only here.
Still, other sites didn't use to tell people to avoid Talk Tennis. They used to point to us as a source.

IMO … GPPD and the semi-naked WTA thread is what set us apart from the civilized world

 

[ByeByePoly]

Only tennis players respect tennis players … so those players only respecting singles players aren’t respected … karma burn

 

[Creighton]

The best singles players, only. If they rarely play doubles, they usually suck. It's unusual to find good club players who are good at both.

I guess I've just never really experienced many people who get enough singles action to only practice singles.

On every USTA team I've ever been on the majority of the practices have been doubles, so the singles guys get plenty of opportunity to play doubles.

 

[ByeByePoly]

fyi … states with cold winters require club membership for year round tennis. Indoor tennis court hourly fees, middle age members, USTA leagues, club leagues in general … all lead to more doubles. Typical would be younger players … 20s and early 30s often played summer singles tournaments and then played very little in the winter. Then maybe join a club later … 30s+ … and not many paying for indoor singles in winter. Also clubs are very USTA league oriented … and USTA has always been doubles centered. 3 doubles matches, 2 singles matches … 6 playing doubles, 2 playing singles. It was typical for middle age doubles teams that played together year after year to recruit young wheels for the two singles slots that no one wanted to play in USTA (particularly if team traveled for weekend playoffs). I don’t remember many of us 40+ playing USTA 4.5 leagues worrying much about what the 20 year old respected. We all had the wisdom to know 20 year old legs can give one an inflated self-belief in tennis talent. The reason many of us knew that … is we were once 20 year old singles players with inflated egos and good tournament singles resumes.

I loved singles, liked doubles … but only singles was real tennis.

No … not all good singles players are good doubles players … different skills.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

We have 22 courts and a lot more members. So, there are singles club tournaments, a singles ladder and 2 times of the week when the club organizes singles matches in addition to members playing social singles with their friends. In addition, the club hosts UTR or USTA tournaments often too where some members sign up to play. Still I would say that 80% of the adult male members and 98% of the adult women seem to play only doubles. Those who play both singles and doubles are very rare, but everyone knows who they are if they are 4.5+ as they tend to do well in the club tournaments and ladders.

Sounds amazing, I always fantasize that every Cali city has many clubs like this lol.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

County Wicklow Lawn tennis Club(Bray, Ireland):

Whoah! Red grass! Is it real grass? Don't laugh, grass is not common in the States. Although awhile ago a very rich tennis enthusiast in Dallas bought a farm near Southlake and turned it into grass courts just for fun.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

I’m glad I don’t hang out with those people!

It's the ex college players in their 20s and early 30s.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Does anyone else see the irony of any of us posting here worrying about respect?

That horse left the barn.

Yes, truly no one should care, I certainly don't, but when I share what i have seen and heard it seems to rile up some doubles guys I guess? Or maybe people are defending their friends who only play doubles, but usually it's "all about me" on the internets. Like when you generalize and say do this tactic to bet this tactic, in a general strategy discussion and so many post "I just played someone last weekend where that wouldn't have worked so that generalization is never true".

fyi … states with cold winters require club membership for year round tennis. Indoor tennis court hourly fees, middle age members, USTA leagues, club leagues in general … all lead to more doubles. Typical would be younger players … 20s and early 30s often played summer singles tournaments and then played very little in the winter. Then maybe join a club later … 30s+ … and not many paying for indoor singles in winter. Also clubs are very USTA league oriented … and USTA has always been doubles centered. 3 doubles matches, 2 singles matches … 6 playing doubles, 2 playing singles. It was typical for middle age doubles teams that played together year after year to recruit young wheels for the two singles slots that no one wanted to play in USTA (particularly if team traveled for weekend playoffs). I don’t remember many of us 40+ playing USTA 4.5 leagues worrying much about what the 20 year old respected. We all had the wisdom to know 20 year old legs can give one an inflated self-belief in tennis talent. The reason many of us knew that … is we were once 20 year old singles players with inflated egos and good tournament singles resumes.

I loved singles, liked doubles … but only singles was real tennis.

No … not all good singles players are good doubles players … different skills.

They are different and they do take different skills, but at certain levels most people can straddle both. And, don't shoot the messenger, those playing high level 18s just don't consider the old doubles guys when talking about the best players in the "club" or town or section. That's the gist of the original idea. I don't think it's a lack of respect, it's just a lack of considering them at all if you walked up to a 28 year old and asked who are the best players around here?
Still curious where the 3.5 and 4.0 needing or being asked to play Open level tournaments comes in @socallefty , are you thinking doubles guys at your place have to do that or is someone asking them to ? Did someone disrespect some doubles guys at your club?

 

[travlerajm]

I think it’s fair to say that most very good singles players are younger players. But not always.

 

[travlerajm]

Of course, a pair of 36yo senior citizens made easy first-round fodder out of their quick-healing 20-something competition at Wimbledon this week.

 

[jaxadam]

It's the ex college players in their 20s and early 30s.

So should we start a new thread “Who gets more respect at your club, 20 year olds or 50 year olds?”

 

[ByeByePoly]

Yes, truly no one should care, I certainly don't, but when I share what i have seen and heard it seems to rile up some doubles guys I guess? Or maybe people are defending their friends who only play doubles, but usually it's "all about me" on the internets. Like when you generalize and say do this tactic to bet this tactic, in a general strategy discussion and so many post "I just played someone last weekend where that wouldn't have worked so that generalization is never true".

They are different and they do take different skills, but at certain levels most people can straddle both. And, don't shoot the messenger, those playing high level 18s just don't consider the old doubles guys when talking about the best players in the "club" or town or section. That's the gist of the original idea. I don't think it's a lack of respect, it's just a lack of considering them at all if you walked up to a 28 year old and asked who are the best players around here?
Still curious where the 3.5 and 4.0 needing or being asked to play Open level tournaments comes in @socallefty , are you thinking doubles guys at your place have to do that or is someone asking them to ? Did someone disrespect some doubles guys at your club?

One of the reasons I loved tournament singles was opinions (opponents, peers, coaches, instructors, tournament directors, teammates, even mine) could be ignored. Only one left with the balls after the match and reported the score at the tournament desk. There is no “we” in singles.

My experience moving from mainly singles to mainly doubles in my early 30s when I joined a club was pretty frustrating. This surprised me … because I was s&v in singles … and you think doubles, net, volleys … I’m going to crush it and some older dudes that couldn’t win two games a set off of me in singles. The two games in singles part was correct … the quick doubles good to go was way wrong. It took me quite a while to figure out why I was struggling:
- singles volley and doubles volley different … I set my singles volley up beforehand and most volleys were won before I hit them. Doubles reaction volleys different.
- I gained advantage in singles by moving opponents around hitting too targets the full width and length of court … doubles is cross court drill (that will make people mad )
- my entire singles ros game I could hit too targets the full width of court … doubles was hosed by the bad taste of putting a net guy up there closing the target window by half.

I worked it out … but in my experience at least … this good singles player was not a good doubles from the start.

Tennis singles is life (for you Ted Lasso fans)

 

[ByeByePoly]

Of course, a pair of 36yo senior citizens made easy first-round fodder out of their quick-healing 20-something competition at Wimbledon this week.

We need a rec standard for avoiding youth disrespect … say 40+ singles.

Who am I kidding … “ok boomers”

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

So should we start a new thread “Who gets more respect at your club, 20 year olds or 50 year olds?”

Feel free to, but why?

 

[mcs1970]

Yes, truly no one should care, I certainly don't, but when I share what i have seen and heard it seems to rile up some doubles guys I guess? Or maybe people are defending their friends who only play doubles, but usually it's "all about me" on the internets. Like when you generalize and say do this tactic to bet this tactic, in a general strategy discussion and so many post "I just played someone last weekend where that wouldn't have worked so that generalization is never true".

They are different and they do take different skills, but at certain levels most people can straddle both. And, don't shoot the messenger, those playing high level 18s just don't consider the old doubles guys when talking about the best players in the "club" or town or section. That's the gist of the original idea. I don't think it's a lack of respect, it's just a lack of considering them at all if you walked up to a 28 year old and asked who are the best players around here?
Still curious where the 3.5 and 4.0 needing or being asked to play Open level tournaments comes in @socallefty , are you thinking doubles guys at your place have to do that or is someone asking them to ? Did someone disrespect some doubles guys at your club?

18 year olds don’t consider any 40+ club guy as any good. Singles or doubles. It’s common at their age.

Btw the gist was not what you mentioned anyway.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

18 year olds don’t consider any 40+ club guy as any good. Singles or doubles. It’s common at their age.

Btw the gist was not what you mentioned anyway.

I probably gist don't get it

 

[motherofdragons]

90% +/- of those at my club play doubles exclusively.

Hello. Singles is too hard. Like no

 

[WYK]

Of course, a pair of 36yo senior citizens made easy first-round fodder out of their quick-healing 20-something competition at Wimbledon this week.

 

[ByeByePoly]

We have 22 courts and a lot more members. So, there are singles club tournaments, a singles ladder and 2 times of the week when the club organizes singles matches in addition to members playing social singles with their friends. In addition, the club hosts UTR or USTA tournaments often too where some members sign up to play. Still I would say that 80% of the adult male members and 98% of the adult women seem to play only doubles. Those who play both singles and doubles are very rare, but everyone knows who they are if they are 4.5+ as they tend to do well in the club tournaments and ladders.

22 outdoor courts … not to mention the weather … very jealous. That said … perhaps I still have both original knees because of the doubles court hours, particularly the “too fat” years. Several of us that no longer played tournament or USTA singles continued to play one a week summer club singles matches with friends/teammates. Got our fix without pushing limit of middle age knees.

22 outdoor courts … CA weather … don’t take this wrong … f*** you.

 

[ByeByePoly]

So should we start a new thread “Who gets more respect at your club, 20 year olds or 50 year olds?”

One of my 50ish USTA teammates owned the club … never witnessed our young club members disrespecting him.

 

[nyta2]

...willing to play singles with the double-digit UTR...

after getting smoked by my friend's double digit utr son... some takeaways from our conversation:
* what is ntrp?
* utr7-8 is a "beginner" (in their minds, bagel&breadstick fodder, their main pressure is giving up a game or two which will drop their utr slightly)
* no one plays tournaments for doubles (it's an after thought, since they've already traveled there, so might as well play if they are no longer in the singles draw)

 

[nyta2]

Maybe I should rephrase the OP. Some players get respected as the best players in the club hierarchy. It doesn’t mean others get disrespected if they play only doubles.

"respect" is probably not the right word... more like "points awarded to the imaginary hierarchy that every tennis club has"

 

[ByeByePoly]

"respect" is probably not the right word... more like "points awarded to the imaginary hierarchy that every tennis club has"

image hierarchy:
1) tennis singles
2) tennis doubles
3) pond scum
4) pickleball

 

[MarinaHighTennis]

We have 22 courts and a lot more members. So, there are singles club tournaments, a singles ladder and 2 times of the week when the club organizes singles matches in addition to members playing social singles with their friends. In addition, the club hosts UTR or USTA tournaments often too where some members sign up to play. Still I would say that 80% of the adult male members and 98% of the adult women seem to play only doubles. Those who play both singles and doubles are very rare, but everyone knows who they are if they are 4.5+ as they tend to do well in the club tournaments and ladders.

Hmm I'm in SoCal and I feel like initially as new players come into USTA or just to hit, they definitely see singles as more important and tend to prefer that to play. But after a few years of USTA the focus shifts to doubles more as there are more lines involved in being a good doubles players so you get a lot of respect from that.

However, if there is a singles ringer they are valuable to the team as nobody wants to play singles and its a "forsure" line. I find that in singles the better player will always win. In doubles its pretty much up for grabs based on weak partner/exposed weakness to turn the tides.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

"respect" is probably not the right word... more like "points awarded to the imaginary hierarchy that every tennis club has"

100%, that's what I meant saying they don't even think about doubles players when thinking about tennis players. It's not disrespect, it's just "there's that doubles guy over there"

 

[mcs1970]

100%, that's what I meant saying they don't even think about doubles players when thinking about tennis players. It's not disrespect, it's just "there's that doubles guy over there"

Whenever someone starts with it is not intended as a disrespect you know the next sentence that follows is the disrespect. You did the same. Never fails.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Hmm I'm in SoCal and I feel like initially as new players come into USTA or just to hit, they definitely see singles as more important and tend to prefer that to play. But after a few years of USTA the focus shifts to doubles more as there are more lines involved in being a good doubles players so you get a lot of respect from that.

However, if there is a singles ringer they are valuable to the team as nobody wants to play singles and its a "forsure" line. I find that in singles the better player will always win. In doubles its pretty much up for grabs based on weak partner/exposed weakness to turn the tides.

If you play doubles on enough USTA teams … you will know the difference in match pressure when you know:
1) one out of three doubles lines is a match win
2) two out of three doubles lines is a match win
3) three out of three doubles lines is a match win

#3 is doubles teams pucker time.

You also know in situation #1 … those ringers may not be with you at sectionals or nationals

 

[nyta2]

Hmm I'm in SoCal and I feel like initially as new players come into USTA or just to hit, they definitely see singles as more important and tend to prefer that to play. But after a few years of USTA the focus shifts to doubles more as there are more lines involved in being a good doubles players so you get a lot of respect from that.

However, if there is a singles ringer they are valuable to the team as nobody wants to play singles and its a "forsure" line. I find that in singles the better player will always win. In doubles its pretty much up for grabs based on weak partner/exposed weakness to turn the tides.

wondering if this rings true with others...
when i was moving up the ranks from 3.5... i was always a singles player, and highly sought after as a "guaranteed win" (ringer?)... mainly because i had so much spin on my fh, that bothered 3.5-4.0 folks...
but when i got bumped to 4.5, i was getting rocked by everyone, even the "doubles" players... (4.5's aren't bothered by spinny no pace shots)
realizing that i couldn't compete with the top 4.5's for a singles spot (who were often borderline 5.0's), i focused on dubs (as that's the only place i could get a spot on the team, else be stuck being a "singles-only" player with no team willing to play me...)

fast forward to today... while i'm often a much better doubles player especially relative to my peers, and a much better singles player than i was years ago, i still prefer to play singles... but still lose to our top singles players (and others on other teams) who are typically borderline 5.0 (per tennisrecord, myutr).... so i still don't get to play singles much (on a usta team), against most teams (save for the weakest ones).

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Whenever someone starts with it is not intended as a disrespect you know the next sentence that follows is the disrespect. You did the same. Never fails.

Perhaps, but I am merely explaining how these guys talk, not expressing any opinions of my own. I'm in and around so many tennis environments.

Maybe this is a way to put it, the more boastful players in most clubs who even care about who is good or not, respect isn't the right word, just boastful conversations, almost always think of who would beat who in singles. If a fantastic doubles player never plays singles, these types of club players who try to rank who is best, don't really mention them at all.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

wondering if this rings true with others...
when i was moving up the ranks from 3.5... i was always a singles player, and highly sought after as a "guaranteed win" (ringer?)... mainly because i had so much spin on my fh, that bothered 3.5-4.0 folks...
but when i got bumped to 4.5, i was getting rocked by everyone, even the "doubles" players... (4.5's aren't bothered by spinny no pace shots)
realizing that i couldn't compete with the top 4.5's for a singles spot (who were often borderline 5.0's), i focused on dubs (as that's the only place i could get a spot on the team, else be stuck being a "singles-only" player with no team willing to play me...)

fast forward to today... while i'm often a much better doubles player especially relative to my peers, and a much better singles player than i was years ago, i still prefer to play singles... but still lose to our top singles players (and others on other teams) who are typically borderline 5.0 (per tennisrecord, myutr).... so i still don't get to play singles much (on a usta team), against most teams (save for the weakest ones).

That can happen often, usually the singles players for some reason, habit I guess or the captains see them as singles only or the player thinks they are singles only, usually they bounce up and down between ntrp ratings. It makes more sense to transition to doubles, I haven't seen it happen that often though.

But, your situation fits what I am saying, the captains and teammates you have aren't disrespecting you, they just don't think you are good enough to play singles. Not many people ever think at that higher level, that guy isn't "good enougu" to play doubles.

 

[ByeByePoly]

wondering if this rings true with others...
when i was moving up the ranks from 3.5... i was always a singles player, and highly sought after as a "guaranteed win" (ringer?)... mainly because i had so much spin on my fh, that bothered 3.5-4.0 folks...
but when i got bumped to 4.5, i was getting rocked by everyone, even the "doubles" players... (4.5's aren't bothered by spinny no pace shots)
realizing that i couldn't compete with the top 4.5's for a singles spot (who were often borderline 5.0's), i focused on dubs (as that's the only place i could get a spot on the team, else be stuck being a "singles-only" player with no team willing to play me...)

fast forward to today... while i'm often a much better doubles player especially relative to my peers, and a much better singles player than i was years ago, i still prefer to play singles... but still lose to our top singles players (and others on other teams) who are typically borderline 5.0 (per tennisrecord, myutr).... so i still don't get to play singles much (on a usta team), against most teams (save for the weakest ones).

My guess my friend is your legs aged much better than most … and I don’t think you can ever remove the singles player in us … you can just steal our legs.

Yes … the USTA life path is from #1 singles ringer -> top doubles line -> competing for line #3 doubles -> dropping one USTA level. Senior 4.0 USTA here is a bucket list stop from everyone from those who played college tennis to the player that was always 4.0 and can still run.

 

[mcs1970]

Perhaps, but I am merely explaining how these guys talk, not expressing any opinions of my own. I'm in and around so many tennis environments.

Maybe this is a way to put it, the more boastful players in most clubs who even care about who is good or not, respect isn't the right word, just boastful conversations, almost always think of who would beat who in singles. If a fantastic doubles player never plays singles, these types of club players who try to rank who is best, don't really mention them at all.

Many others do not share your same opinions on this thread and we have also been around many different environments.

Where you keep missing the point is you keep bringing up the top singles players and then saying that doubles players are an afterthought.

The OP was that just playing singles by itself confers some automatic level of respect. It does not. There are many poor singles club players out there.