I recently made a switch from a Blade v8 98S to the v5 from 2015. I made the switch entirely based on reading these forums, as I was searching for a firmer feel and liked what I got from the nice second hand sticks I bought. But seeing how I never experienced the v5 Blades when they were new, I have no reference of what the last ten years have done to them. Do racquets turn softer or stiffer with time? Since I got 6 old Blades (for the same cost as 1 new) I might be playing with them for a while, unless they deteriorate and turn to dust sometime in the near future.
Do racquets get stiff or soft over time?
- Thread starter hnrk
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TennisLogic
Semi-Pro
Much softer especially if you keep restringing at high tension
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Softer over time is the popular refrain. It makes sense that use and restringing would make things softer. I think like alot in tennis that is just old info and hasn’t been updated. Racquets were weaker back in the day and would warp and crack way easier, and yes, get softer.
To test that I bought 4 racquets. Used and abused 3 for years. I am talking regular stringing at 86lbs or tension differentials up to 70 lbs (crosses 70lbs lower than mains). Iirc it was 6-7 years later when I strung up the 4th. I couldn’t feel any difference in stiffness. Liking the stiffest stick possible I was hoping for there to be a difference with the new one. I certainly didn’t notice it.
Hard to tell the difference in stiffness when you spec your stick up to 460sw and 402g
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
A normal amateur tennis player cannot play a frame in such a way that the stiffness of the frame suffers.
If the frame has no visible damage from playing or throwing, nothing can happen.
A new basic grip tape every two to three years and new grommets every 5 years and everything is fine.
If the ego thinks a new racket is needed - then that's the way it is.
But the frame is not played out.
This is a myth of the racket industry so that they can sell their rackets every two years.
If the frame has no visible damage from playing or throwing, nothing can happen.
A new basic grip tape every two to three years and new grommets every 5 years and everything is fine.
If the ego thinks a new racket is needed - then that's the way it is.
But the frame is not played out.
This is a myth of the racket industry so that they can sell their rackets every two years.
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
@hnrk
There is still the question of why you have the impression that this frame should be softer.
Do you string it yourself or do you have it done?
With the 18/16 frame you have to string the cross strings much harder than the main strings in order not to warp the frame.
The two should be very similar in terms of frame stiffness - I would suggest that you restring both or have them restringed and then try again.
There is still the question of why you have the impression that this frame should be softer.
Do you string it yourself or do you have it done?
With the 18/16 frame you have to string the cross strings much harder than the main strings in order not to warp the frame.
The two should be very similar in terms of frame stiffness - I would suggest that you restring both or have them restringed and then try again.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Well I was less back then. But yeah the lead seems to make the sticks feel softer.Hard to tell the difference in stiffness when you spec your stick up to 460sw and 402g
Interesting! What would be the reason for increasing tension on the cross string with a 18x16? Isn't it the same for all patterns, as they would be relatively similar?
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my original post. I don't expect the frames to go soft, I am merely curious on how they would/should change as they are ten years old at this point. I was having a non-conclusive discussion with a friend and figured I'd throw the question here for some more detailed illumination.
To me, the 2015 Blades are firmer than the v8s I used to play with, but it's not the only difference. They feel very different to me. I dipped my toes into both the v6 and v7 before that and they were way too muted for me. v5 is currently what I was looking for, and with the number of sticks I own I would be more than happy if they could just continue being as they are.
I string myself, so I'll give higher tension on crosses a try!
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
With this frame 18/16 - without increasing the cross string by 3kg plus, the racket warps enormously.
The frame will play much better if the forces are balanced.
This is a basic fact that they have to face.
Please use the search function.
There are many articles about this.
The frame will play much better if the forces are balanced.
This is a basic fact that they have to face.
Please use the search function.
There are many articles about this.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
This is my experience. Since I play with same racquet model for many years and have 3-4 of them in my bag that I carefully track in terms of hours used and number of string jobs, it is easy for me to tell the difference. I usually will play with my newest racquet in singles because it will have a bit more power that helps on serves than my 300-500 hour racquets.
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
Yes.
But that doesn’t mean they become unplayable.
But that doesn’t mean they become unplayable.
This would be a great way to quantify. Im surprised tennisspin hasnt done a video measuring RA on a new vs year old frame.
Of course, more to flexibility than just the throat.
codonnell
Semi-Pro
Oh definitely there’s more factors but it does help. I think a good example is if you look at pro stock tennis a lot of the frames stiffness ratings if measured there is just the standard stiffness of the retail frames. And pros beat on them and string them much more frequently than the average player.
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
If the paint surface is not damaged in any way, i.e. no hairline cracks etc., there is also no measurable RA difference.
If there were cracks under the paint surface, they would also break through the paint layer.
In my opinion, this is a myth.
I also make the frames for some people who earn their money with them. There's not a dry eye in the house - they put a lot of strain on the frames.
In any case, I have all the measurement data from the frames that have been played and strung a lot in their virgin and played condition.
The good boy has no frame damage from the hard court or similar, they still look quite acceptable and he's not a racket smasher either.
In terms of measurements, there is hardly any difference in the frame stiffness in these two years.
If there were cracks under the paint surface, they would also break through the paint layer.
In my opinion, this is a myth.
I also make the frames for some people who earn their money with them. There's not a dry eye in the house - they put a lot of strain on the frames.
In any case, I have all the measurement data from the frames that have been played and strung a lot in their virgin and played condition.
The good boy has no frame damage from the hard court or similar, they still look quite acceptable and he's not a racket smasher either.
In terms of measurements, there is hardly any difference in the frame stiffness in these two years.
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
This frame of an ATP player was put through a lot and still has the stiffness of 66 RA.
They can definitely get softer over time. You don't notice it until you compare side-by-side one racquet with tons of play over 15-20 years or so vs. a brand new one of the same type. I've experience this with two frames - The PT280 and K-Blade both with a ton of use compared to new old stock versions I acquired many years later. There is a definite difference in feel/flex.
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fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
Do you have access to an RDC or is that your personal impression?
I have measured dozens of frames of one and the same model brand new. It is not uncommon to have 3-4 RA deviations.
I don't even want to talk about overall weight and balance - I hope you know what I mean.
I'm not sure if I would notice this difference in stiffness when playing.
Actually, we're just arguing about the emperor's beard anyway - one person likes soft frames and swears by them and another can't play with them at all.
It is what it is - I think that this rumor mainly comes from the racket industry so that the new models are bought.
Nothing can actually happen, I've never heard of anyone getting badly injured because their frame was too soft.
So I would like to close this topic for myself and stick to my opinion.
Perception, but you get to know a batch of racquets pretty well when you play with them for that long and then try brand new ones. It's real.
And RA measurements wouldn't be scientific unless you could measure the same frame when it's new as well as many years later after hitting thousands of hours of balls, using the same machine calibrated the same. Have you done that?
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fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
How many times do I have to repeat that?
I would recommend that you read the posts more carefully - thank you for that.
Do racquets get stiff or soft over time?
I recently made a switch from a Blade v8 98S to the v5 from 2015. I made the switch entirely based on reading these forums, as I was searching for a firmer feel and liked what I got from the nice second hand sticks I bought. But seeing how I never experienced the v5 Blades when they were new, I...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
My experience as well. Comparing one I played many years with new ones, I feel the former is definately softer.
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
That racquet gets softer with use is wholly my personal impression. And I like softened racquet far better than new one. I guess another way of saying "becoming soft" here is "becoming familiar/comfortable". So I'd use it until it gets a real physical damage like a crack or fracture.
I read the post you quoted me on. Based on that, the answer to my question is no you HAVEN'T done this. Don't care to dig through any other posts you made.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I remember James Blake having trouble finding a replacement for his broken-in worn-out Dunlops when he tried to switch sponsors.
He kept playing with the old ones and painted them.
He kept playing with the old ones and painted them.
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
I had all my PS85s' stiffness measured by a technician on an RDC machine years ago when I was playing with them.
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
Then I need not be surprised.
Another pompous foamer!
Carbon fiber is known to suffer from microfractures with repeated use.
This is the same thing that happens to my son's frames. He grinds down the frame from picking up half-volleys or volleys at his feet (dubs player) and eventually wears through the frame. A couple months ago, he thought he was playing badly for a couple weeks, but it was the head of his frame that was warped from being worn so thin. It had three cracks wear it was worn down.This frame of an ATP player was put through a lot and still has the stiffness of 66 RA.
LOL I glanced through your postings here and apparently you're quite challenged in the reading, comprehension, and written communication departments. I asked if you've measured the same frame both when new, as well as the same frame after 15-20 years and thousands of hrs of use on the same machine. I don't see that you wrote anything about doing this. Your tantrum shows you got nothing anyway.
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
The RDC of the PS85 I used the most was 59, and the new ones I bought were 62-63. Other old ones around 60-62.
I only found out bc I I liked one more than the others and asked the shop technician to match the others to it.
He could match most but not all in weight and balance but then told me about the RA stiffness differences he could not do anything about.
I only found out bc I I liked one more than the others and asked the shop technician to match the others to it.
He could match most but not all in weight and balance but then told me about the RA stiffness differences he could not do anything about.
ChrisJR3264
Hall of Fame
You never want to stay stiff for too long.
Guru Apu
Rookie
i have a my favorite racquet that will sometime feel stiffer, but only if i play the mixed doubles.
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
If someone demands such nonsense as proof, then there is something wrong with them.
Only a clueless person could write something like that - it's as simple as that!
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
Then I would ask you to disclose the source.
Or does known also mean that it is not known?
Or could it be a myth?
Google search labs via papers from science direct (search terms: carbon fiber micro fracture):
Carbon fiber microfracture is a localized failure that can occur within a single carbon fiber. Carbon fiber is strong and resistant to fatigue, but it can be brittle and susceptible to microfractures.
How can carbon fiber microfracture occur?
- Micro brittle fracture: A microfracture that occurs within a single carbon fiber
- Macro brittle fracture: A fracture that occurs in a single carbon fiber, such as bending, compression, or shear fracture
- Ultrasonic superimposition: The inertia force of an abrasive can promote microfracture
- Bending failure: The back-up materials may not sustain the fiber, causing bending failure
- Tensile fracture: The axial load component can aggravate tensile fracture
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
These headlines are all well and good.
The whole link please!
You won't really find anything about micro cracks in tennis rackets.
Everything I have found is related to space research and airplanes.
They have made enormous efforts to prove this under laboratory conditions.
Proof that a tennis racket has become softer over the years ONLY through playing has only been heard from people who don't even know how to string a racket properly.
I agree the research isn't made w/ tennis racquets. I wonder if the golf industry has any data. Why would carbon fiber behave differently in a tennis racquet, though? Isn't something like fracture a physical property of a substance?
esgee48
G.O.A.T.
It's likely, repeated stress to graphite racquets can cause micro fractures in the frame. You can't see them unless it's under a scan. What is more likely is separation of the epoxy resin which supports the graphite weave. The sheets are resistant to stretching, but not to bending when this happens. Epoxy resins are much more brittle than the graphite weaves. Worst case I have ever felt was when hitting with new vs old Dunlop 200Gs.
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
Here is an article about microcrack that describes this condition - but only in the thermal load change from -196° to +250° and similar.
I think this is highly complex research that was developed for space science.
A tennis racket does not normally reach these ranges.
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
Yes, fine - but that's just your personal opinion or assumption - anyone can say that.
If we are discussing the emperor's beard, then I would like to read the evidence of a real study on this topic.
I have already spoken to experts on this topic - there is no/hardly any solid result.
