Do recreational players need to play with polys?

Should recreational players play with polyester strings (polys)?

  • Yes, anyone can play with polys (adjust tension, soft polys, etc.)

    Votes: 53 58.9%
  • Yes, but only if they are advanced recreational players (NRTP 4.5+)

    Votes: 13 14.4%
  • No, there is no need for recreational players to play with polys.

    Votes: 13 14.4%
  • Maybe, if their arm can handle it.

    Votes: 26 28.9%
  • Hybrids a great middle ground.

    Votes: 21 23.3%
  • No, they should stay away from the polys.

    Votes: 5 5.6%

  • Total voters
    90
Many experts and sources say recreational players don't need to play with polyester strings. Yet, many recreational players, including some of these stringing experts who say this, still play with polys.
Some also say that advancements in poly arm comfort and materials have made multifilament strings obsolete.

Let's discuss this in a poll and in the discussion below. (I, for one, do not know where I stand. I can see the pros and cons of both. In the winter, I feel that polys are a tough choice for playing in low temperatures)

You can choose up to three options.
 
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I think that Polys these days can be played when you pass the "beginner" phase.
But not all polys are suitable for low intermediate - intermediate levels.

Nowadays there are super soft polys, very thin gauges that will really provide enough comfort and access to poly characteristics to everyone.

But it can't be denied that the best use for polys is advanced players that are really killing the ball, and even for them at the recreational level could not be worth it because they last nothing.

DEMOCRATIZE POLY STRINGS
 
Polys in which form ever restrict recreational players from developing their strokes and game. They limit their possibilities. It is a dead string and always will be. No new material will change the structure of a Poly. Thats the point!
 
I didn’t vote. I advise poly only for players that can make use of their characteristics. Even then, they better replace the string after X hours. Less than 33% of my clients fall into these 2 filters. I have approximately 50% of people I have strung for receiving poly, obviously with reservations on my part. The people I don’t worry about see me like clockwork. They almost always break their poly. Or it comes back notched half way thru. Those others either switch to something else or go on IR. The only time I don’t worry about the ones that shouldn’t be using poly is if their frames have vibration reducing tech or are on the heavy side eg > 12.5 oz.

Obviously if the client brings me the string and tells me the tension, I would do it but still caution them. As soon as soreness appears and does not go away a few hours after playing, it means examine your technique or replace the strings. I talking about shoulder, arm and wrist areas.
 
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I see a lot of players post that they got elbow/wrist/arm injuries and are debating whether to change their racquet - go lighter/heavier/more flexible etc. If they mention their string is poly, they get a litany of people saying they should not use poly. They rarely mention if they cut out their poly before it goes dead while I think playing with dead poly is a major cause for injuries. So, I wanted to post this Public Service Announcement (PSA) and am intentionally posting it in the racquet section as if you follow it, you won’t need to change your racquet.

PSA - Cut out your poly before it goes dead. Very few players are high level enough to break their poly before it goes dead and this includes 95% of rec players because stiff old-school poly goes dead in 5-10 hours and softer polys go dead in 10-25 hours (shorter duration the harder/heavier you hit or if you play only singles). If you play with dead poly, it WILL injure you and control will be erratic in addition to feel being ‘crappy’ so that it also compromises your performance - this is not the way to save money as medical/PT bills cost a lot.

How to know if your poly is dead? If you feel any tightness (even before pain) in your wrist/arm/elbow, the poly is dead. Cut it out before you develop any soreness/pain. If you play with the same string and tension, make sure you make a note of how many playing hours you played with it and cut it out in advance of that for future stringjobs. You should also be seeing erratic control and a worsening in feel, but this may be harder to spot if you are low-level or don’t play often - surest sign of dead poly is your body talking to you and telling you it feels tight or sore. This rule still applies in a hybrid stringjob as poly goes dead in hybrids also and you should cut it out if your wrist/arm feels tight even before you develop pain. If you get any pain, please ‘for the love of God’ cut out your strings and don’t try to coax a few more hours out of your stringjob. If you strung your poly many months ago and didn’t play with it much, be extra wary as poly can go dead quicker just from being under tension (strung in a racquet) for a long time - so you might feel tightness in your wrist/arm quicker and need to cut out an old stringjob sooner than normal. Don’t keep your backup racquet strung with poly in your bag without playing with it for many weeks and months as you are wasting the stringjob.

Other causes of injury:
  • Playing poly at high tension. Most polys (especially newer soft polys) play well at tensions in the low-mid-high forties (lbs) of tension and there is no reason to go higher. Most players below college level who play with higher tensions do so because they were used to stringing in the fifties with soft strings and think dropping 4-6 lbs is enough with poly. If you try lower tensions, you will see that comfort goes up a lot, control doesn't go down too much and you can play many hours longer with a poly stringjob before you feel discomfort. Be bold and try 40-44 lbs before you knock it or go back to higher tensions.
  • Racquets weighing below 10 ozs and above 12 ozs unstrung (as printed on the racquet) should be avoided as you have to be very small/weak or very big/strong to need racquets outside the weight range of 10-12 ozs to play well.
  • Racquets with RA stiffness above 70 unstrung or VF above 155Hz might be good to avoid if you have a history of injury. But if you string poly properly (low tension, cut it out before it goes dead), you might be fine anyway.
Some other points to reduce the risk of injury.
  • If you don’t hit too many winners on serves/groundstrokes and play (bunt) at a low level, you probably could play with soft strings and avoid poly as you have to hit hard to get the effects of increased spin/control. Please don’t play with poly because you don’t break it for a long time or because it doesn’t move when you play with it unlike soft strings - you should cut it out before you feel tightness/pain and then it doesn’t last long either. Play with poly only if you like the extra control and spin.
  • Try thin gauges of poly also as they have more comfort and power compared to thick gauges. Only high level players who break poly before it goes dead need to think about playing with 15g poly.
  • Change your tennis balls often and understand that if you play with low pressure balls for multiple matches or practices, this can contribute to injury. Serve practice with very old balls is bad for the shoulder.
  • If you are currently injured, rest long enough to not feel ANY pain before you start playing again. When you restart, you might not need to change your racquet or strings except possibly the gauge and tension as long as you follow the PSA.
  • Lastly, change your shoes often too if you are feeling knee/foot/calf pain or Achilles tightness that you did not feel when the shoes were new. These days, shoe soles last a long time and don’t wear out before the shoe support wears out. Also if you tighten your shoe laces too much to make old shoes that have loosened up ‘fit’ better, you run the risk of plantar fascitis injury. If your lower body is talking to you in the form of pain, listen to it and replace your shoes. If you get leg/knee pain just after you switched to a new shoe model, change back to a shoe model you are used to and see if the pain goes away. Some shoe designs (especially heel drop, arch support) might not be suitable for your feet. Also in some shoe models, you might need to size up half a size and wear thick socks to have a good fit.
Enjoy pain-free tennis by following the PSA. Then you can ignore the ’witch doctors’ who don’t follow the PSA and tell you to avoid heavy racquets, medium-stiff racquets, poly strings etc. that you like to play with. I‘ve played everyday for almost fifteen years with Babolat racquets/poly hybrids on hard courts in my forties/fifties (when I’m not traveling) without repetitive/overuse injuries by following my equipment guidelines although it took me a few years to figure out that some shoe models/old shoes can cause injury.

This message is not sponsored by your local orthopedic surgeon or physical therapist, but should be sponsored by your local stringer who hopefully strings for you more often.
 
Anyone can use them but you have to see them hit. Some will make no use of it. Then why would you give them a string they need to replace more often. My girlfriend plays for 2 years now once a week and the first year I always advised her against poly. But one time my dad gave her a poly stringjob and she liked it so much more. She was taught decent tecnique so now she spins the ball and makes use of it but obviously wont break the string ever. Now I just make sure I replace it for her. The problem is that beginners just play the same poly stringbed for a year (no elasticity) with wrong tecnique and the arm takes the toll.
 
I posted this before in another thread, but his good advice also fits here:


Collaborative Effort By Bob Patterson:

When it comes to poly strings, we all need to make sure adult recreational players and juniors know the facts. I speak to many manufacturers, coaches, and racquet technicians, and the consensus is that recreational adult players and junior players are using the wrong type of string, tension—or both.

Stiff polyester strings are prevalent in the marketplace and dominate the pro tours, but are they suited for the average club or league player? Most in this industry don’t think so.

First, the very benefit of poly strings is their ability to bend and snap back faster than other materials. This snapback enhances spin on the ball. A pro can swing out and get more spin on the ball while generating a heavier shot. You might think that would be the same for your average junior or club player, but it is most definitely not the case. Most players can’t generate enough racquet-head speed to bend stiff poly strings in the first place. If the string doesn't bend, it can’t snap back, and there is little or no spin enhancement. Many recreational players who switch to a poly never adjust their tension.

I’m always amazed to hear of a 3.5 adult or junior using a full poly set-up at high tensions. This is a surefire way for a player to hurt his or her arm.

Second, monofilament poly strings lose their elasticity—or the ability to snap back—much faster than nylon or other string materials. Since poly strings have a fairly dead feeling, to begin with, their decline is less noticeable for recreational players, who tend to not restring as often as they should, which only makes the problem worse.

Not only is poly string wrong for most recreational and junior players, it can be harmful. The stiffer string coupled with stiffer, lighter racquet creates much more shock to the player when the ball impacts the stringbed. In recent years, we’ve seen arm and wrist injuries sideline many top pros, and these athletes train and take every precaution to prevent injury. If we all know it is a problem, how do we fix it?

It starts with education: inform players about why they should alter their string set-up. It is better for their health and for their game. Manufacturers need to step up, too. It is easy to market a string their top sponsored player is using, but companies need to make rec players aware that string may not be best for everyone. Then they need to offer a softer, better-suited string.

The bottom line is that we all need to address this issue. Injured players play less, and may stop playing altogether.

And that’s not good for anyone. •

Bob Patterson:
Executive Director of
the U.S. Racquet Stringers Association.
Tennis Industry: Nov/Dec 2017
 
About a month ago a coach wanted me to string a Head Speed MP Aux 1.0 with a full-bed of Head Lynx Tour 1.25 at 22kg for a 12-year-old. JOKE!
I strongly advised against it, he insisted, so I did it anyway.

Next time, a parent came along with 275gram Aero Lite and I did him a 1.25 soft poly main x 1.30 multifilament crosses at low tension.

Some people will just don't listen, so I'm only giving advice to people willing to listen to.
 
I'm a 3.5 player.
Last time I hit with 15 gauge syn gut it broke in <2 hrs and about 40min in a hybrid with ghost wire.

I think people should hit with syn gut or a poly-cross-hybrid if they can get those options to last them 10-15hrs of hitting but that doesn't scale linearly with ntrp.

If it's hurting your arm you probably have too thick a gauge that is bagging out for too long before breaking.
 
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Theres a choice you left off, if a rec player can consistently break syngut or multi in the center of the stringbed within a short-ish amount of time.

That's the only reason I switched, 16g syngut snapping in an 18x20 in like 3-5 sessions.
Even then I started with soft poly.
 
I switched back to multi... well fusion strings, ie HDMX and Triax

As said before for my age, level and fitness Triax is way more appropriate than Tour Bite of even a Soft poly...

I'm currently counting how many hours it lasts in my Pure Strike... as of today, 3 sessions and the string hasn't even started to fray. Tension holds way better than would a soft poly one.

If Triax (128) last longer than 8 hours on my strike, I'm done with polys.

Note that I didn't notice and significant loss of spin or control in that frame, only more pocketing, more touch, more power and more comfort :)
 
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What soft polys are considered “safe” or multi-like, if any, for the 3.0-4.5 recreational, 40+ player?
I don't know that I would say any poly is multi-like. Materially they are just different.

That said, ghostwire is soft and comes in 1.1mm thickness.
If only really recommend it as a cross string but I know people will use it as a main for juniors. Maybe volkl cyclone tour in the mains, or any mainline string that has 'soft' in the name.

Poly tour pro is probably good in a full bed and relatively soft.
 
Need to? No...however If you want an even level playing field at 4.5-5.0 you should use some type of poly whether it's a hybrid or full bed.

It's like saying to do people NEED to play with 98-100 sq inch rackets? No but playing with a 90 is much harder and I'm sure some people have the talent level/athletic ability to compensate for it but most don't.
 
I just don't know if the average player that's <4.0 is hitting the ball hard enough to get the snapback that's required to get the best out of most poly strings. I'm never surprised about the amount of people at clubs I talk to that don't even know what string is in their racquet as they just keep taking it back to the same place to get the same strings as a lot of people just get used to something and stick with it which is why I see a lot of players that year in/year out never seem to improve that much.
 
What soft polys are considered “safe” or multi-like, if any, for the 3.0-4.5 recreational, 40+ player?
None are multi-like, they're two different materials.

As an arbitrary figure, I aim to stay below 200lbs stiffness, as indicated in the TW string database.
Couple problems there:
1. They don't have every guage of every string
2. Some strings feel less stiff than indicated by the number, so it is rather arbitrary.

Thinner guages can also be a way to add comfort.
I use PT Strike 1.20 and while it is a firm control string, I've never once thought it felt stiff.

You really have to be willing to try but also be willing to stop and cut out strings if they aren't comfortable.
 
my take is, they can, but they dont profit from the benefits that much. That said, poly string market as raquets seem to be go more on the comfort side of things. In terms of hurting the arm, many polys today are 'pretty safe' to give a try. But still wouldn't recommend it to beginners for reasons of not being benificial to them.
Also most recreational players dont care that much what strings they play, sometimes they dont even know what they are playing, or make a choice once, and stick with that for 2 decades.


Another oneliner: string dont matter, doesn't make that much of a difference. Clear sign many are not willing to invest the time to actually learn about string and what kind of string would benefit their game

Over here we talk about equipment to a some kind of nerdy extend. But most players aren't that knowledgable to begin with.
 
Theres a choice you left off, if a rec player can consistently break syngut or multi in the center of the stringbed within a short-ish amount of time.

That's the only reason I switched, 16g syngut snapping in an 18x20 in like 3-5 sessions.
Even then I started with soft poly.
That’s my camp. Best string job I’ve played with is Velocity/Hawk but I break the multi in 3-4 hours. That’s just not sustainable for me.

I keep going back and forth on whether a mid-stiffness poly at low tension or soft poly at low 50s works better for me. But one of those is best for me at 4.0.

The thing people need to remember is that there’s different reasons keeping someone at their NTRP. For me, at least in my eyes, it’s less about stroke mechanics or racquet head speed and more about situational footwork, fitness, and mentality. There’s plenty of high 4.0 and 4.5 guys I’ve played and can’t beat who probably would feel a downgrade moving to poly. But they also get more life out of their multi or have money to spare.
 
Rather than using a rating, b/c it seems someone always knows a 3.5 with a 100mph serve on radar, is it accurate to say if you're breaking a multi or syn gut string within 10 hours of hitting singles or clinics, that you have the requisite racquet head speed to benefit from poly?
If not 10, then what #?
 
Rather than using a rating, b/c it seems someone always knows a 3.5 with a 100mph serve on radar, is it accurate to say if you're breaking a multi or syn gut string within 10 hours of hitting singles or clinics, that you have the requisite racquet head speed to benefit from poly?
If not 10, then what #?
6-12 hrs seems right imo (a racquet a week roughly)
This is also the point by which one should probably get a second, matching, racquet if they don't have one.

But options like reenforced syn gut and thicker gauges should be considered first if the person is just playing with cheap nylons.
 
Rather than using a rating, b/c it seems someone always knows a 3.5 with a 100mph serve on radar, is it accurate to say if you're breaking a multi or syn gut string within 10 hours of hitting singles or clinics, that you have the requisite racquet head speed to benefit from poly?
If not 10, then what #?
I think it has more to do with cost-feasability.
If you string your own racquets and break syngut every 2 or 3 hours, it isn't that expensive. Obviously more if you use multi.

For me though, 16g syngut needed restrung every week and I was paying someone else to do it. So it isn't that practical.
 
I think polyester market is now so large there are so many options for strings and gauges. Yes beginners should play with multi. I would also recommend multi or hybrid to my beginner clients because they are not breaking strings anyway.

But let me say this, in my experience in the last couple years, I have never encountered a single beginner who complains about discomfort on a thin gauge soft poly like a Hyper G soft (1.15-1.20) at 40 something lbs. They seem to be totally fine with it. And I’m talking hundred of people. So, for recreational level, shouldn’t be a problem. Just have to be selective and know what you’re dealing with. If it hurts just a bit, go change.
 
I think it has more to do with cost-feasability.
If you string your own racquets and break syngut every 2 or 3 hours, it isn't that expensive. Obviously more if you use multi.

For me though, 16g syngut needed restrung every week and I was paying someone else to do it. So it isn't that practical.
Cost gets tricky in this conversation because poly will last some players -years- . A strong 4.0 woman on my league team had me restring a racquet that had last been strung in 2017 last year. Strings weren't even broken, someone just convinced her to switch them.

Economically that's the best option for some people who'd never break strings (and honestly if they don't know what they're missing out in oblivious-ness is bliss I guess?)

But given the difference in feel I think there has to be some performance trade-off taken into account even by soft hitting rec players at 3.0-4.0.
 
Cost gets tricky in this conversation because poly will last some players -years- . A strong 4.0 woman on my league team had me restring a racquet that had last been strung in 2017 last year. Strings weren't even broken, someone just convinced her to switch them.

Economically that's the best option for some people who'd never break strings (and honestly if they don't know what they're missing out in oblivious-ness is bliss I guess?)

But given the difference in feel I think there has to be some performance trade-off taken into account even by soft hitting rec players at 3.0-4.0.
This actually opens the door to another problem which @socallefty vehemently preaches about especially in the realm of rec players.
People using old poly and probably causing unseen damage, long-term.

Just because poly isn't broken doesn't mean it should be used. There are many variables but just because it isn't broken doesn't mean it's fit to be used.
 
But let me say this, in my experience in the last couple years, I have never encountered a single beginner who complains about discomfort on a thin gauge soft poly like a Hyper G soft (1.15-1.20) at 40 something lbs. They seem to be totally fine with it. And I’m talking hundred of people. So, for recreational level, shouldn’t be a problem. Just have to be selective and know what you’re dealing with. If it hurts just a bit, go change.
The problem is that when it hurts, they don’t know it is time to change the string because their stringer didn’t tell them and most other casual players don’t know either. So they keep playing till they get injured or they are more likely to change their racquet than their stringjob.

Also beginners typically can use some help with power like soft strings provide. So more reason for them to start with soft strings as they don’t break those strings often either.
 
This actually opens the door to another problem which @socallefty vehemently preaches about especially in the realm of rec players.
People using old poly and probably causing unseen damage, long-term.

Just because poly isn't broken doesn't mean it should be used. There are many variables but just because it isn't broken doesn't mean it's fit to be used.
I agree generally but think that amongst those not able to break poly the subset actually causing self injury is probably pretty low. As a class they just aren't generating that much force. Also their technique is probably bad or they would hit harder and break more strings, which is a confounding factor if any injury does pop up.

This is more a concern (imo) with people who play with e.g. 17/18 gauge poly, break it after 20-30hrs and switch to 17/16/15 gauge to save money.

Exceptions abound but probably and ime n=low.
 
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I agree generally but think that amongst those not able to break poly the subset actually causing self injury is probably pretty low. As a class they just aren't generating that much force. Also their technique is probably bad or they would hit harder and break more strings, which is a confounding factor if any injury does pop up.

This is more a concern (imo) with people who play with e.g. 17/18 gauge poly, break it after 20-30hrs and switch to 1716/15 gauge to save money.

Exceptions abound but probably and ime n=low.
Which is just to say, coaches and stringers should know this if clients come to them with TE/GE but I don't think it's a problem broadly.
 
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