Nothing wrong with a two-handed volley as long as you have good footwork and knee-bend. Frew McMillan and Martina Hingis were two of the best in the business at the net, and it didn't do them any harm.
I used to be like that-- being unwilling to accept things I was told by my pro. I remember telling him that split steps are unnecessary.
You're actually right.
Until you reach 4.5 men's tennis (1% unicorns of tennis), people simply don't hit with enough pace where a SS comes into play.
In fact, at levels below that, split steps have a negative effect, and make you later, since most n00bs don't time them correctly, including myself.
Watch WTA pros return serves, and you'll see that many don't split step. And they are pros. Not 3.5 rec players returning frying pan moonballs.
I've played on synthetic turf and the ball does not bounce. Slice is the critical shot. Is that the same for natural grass?Slippery. And if the chalk is not nicely put in the lines, they are hardly visible.
Yeah, I can see how that would be more difficult, especially the older and less flexible and strong one gets.
I've never studied Hingis' technique. I'm assuming if a coach is teaching the 2hbh volley, they'd use Hingis as a model.
When a teaching pro notices a cheap-skate lurking in the peanut gallery for a freebie lesson --he'll throw in a fake tip that will destroy their arm and game forever like : "GET THE RACKET BACK!" or "SWING LOW TO HIGH!"You have said that you hang out on neighboring courts in order to eavesdrop on lessons and pick up free tips.
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Have you ever seen a 3.0/3.5 woman's 2HBH volley? It is the worst thing ever. And no, @Cindysphinx not baiting you ... I have half a mind to decline partnering with anyone using it. I hate it that much.
Almost entirely choppy, almost always swingy ... greatly limits the ability to properly slice the volley.
It limits reach, it limits proper turn (especially for top heavy women). Often gets the ball popped up or dumped in the net.
And most important, slows any reaction time in a reflex volley situation ... with two hands you just can't volley as quickly.
It always seemed to be a self-selecting thing with me. After a while you get a reputation, so the people that didn't want to work hard just didn't take lessons from me. I always tried to make my lessons mentally and physically challenging. The people that didn't like that didn't come back and word gets around. Once I got established I didn't get tons of new lessons, but I always had the highest retention rate of any of the pros I worked with. I would occasionally recommend another pro for someone if my schedule was full or they were looking for something else though (I just want to hit/don't change anything).
I'm surprised, because you often tout forgoing "winning" for development, that you would suggest split steps are some wasted effort for most players.Until you reach 4.5 men's tennis (1% unicorns of tennis), people simply don't hit with enough pace where a SS comes into play.
It's like you always say. If something isn't easy then don't do it, and just come up with ways to compensate for your lack of proper technique... wait a minute...split steps have a negative effect, and make you later, since most n00bs don't time them correctly, including myself.
You're watching different matches than me apparently.Watch WTA pros return serves, and you'll see that many don't split step.
You're actually right.
Until you reach 4.5 men's tennis (1% unicorns of tennis), people simply don't hit with enough pace where a SS comes into play.
In fact, at levels below that, split steps have a negative effect, and make you later, since most n00bs don't time them correctly, including myself.
Watch WTA pros return serves, and you'll see that many don't split step. And they are pros. Not 3.5 rec players returning frying pan moonballs.
You're actually right.
Until you reach 4.5 men's tennis (1% unicorns of tennis), people simply don't hit with enough pace where a SS comes into play.
In fact, at levels below that, split steps have a negative effect, and make you later, since most n00bs don't time them correctly, including myself.
Watch WTA pros return serves, and you'll see that many don't split step. And they are pros. Not 3.5 rec players returning frying pan moonballs.
You're watching different matches than me apparently.
I'd love to see a professional not split stepping on a service return by the way...bless us with some video, please.
why you would avoid one of the technically easiest things that provides such a clear benefit.
.
It's funny. My dog knows nothing of high level tennis, but if I prepare to throw a ball for her to retrieve, first thing she does is split step.
I literally typed "WTA match" and this was the first result.
Neither player is split stepping for serve return.
In fact, neither player is split stepping for even a rally ball.
LMAO, FIRST SEARCH RESULT.
Yea, the #1 ranked WTA player does not split step
Is the typical club female facing harder balls than Osaka is? Doubt it.
I have a problem with pros who don't make an effort to convince Becky to use a Continental grip for volleys. In other words, I would consider it malpractice to teach Becky volleys and drill her on them and the like and say nothing about that grip.
I mean, that sort of thing is not that hard to explain. I remember being a 3.0 player with one year of tennis experience. Our team was being coached by a "pro" who was terrible. Just some league player making a few bucks by teaching beginners. Did I mention he was terrible?
Anyway, one of the ladies was using EF to volley, and he convinced her to switch to Continental in five minutes. He showed her that with EF her racket face on low balls was facing straight into the net, so any low ball she hit with that grip would go straight into the net. Simple.
I don't know whatever happened to that lady, but if she is somewhere on the planet volleying with EF and frustrated that she is finding the net, she can't say no one ever told her about Continental.
Ok, now you're just baiting me.
Ummmmmmmmm...I saw split steps on almost every ball, and all of their service returns. Osaka missed one split step when she was shuffling back from the corner and got wrong footed by a ball behind her. What exactly do you think a split step looks like? Either you don't know what it actually is, or you need your eyes checked.
Well...the first time I played tennis I was convinced the pros must be playing on bigger courts than we were, because I kept hitting line drives into the back fence. I was 8 at the time...but there you go.
I disagree with your opinion.LOL, it's one of the hardest things to learn.
Almost all good players do.That is why almost no one does it.
This is an objectively false statement. There is no fundamental disagreement from most top teaching pros. Depending on your level they might suggest some slight adjustments, that's it. Here's a nice guide for a novice:Not even top ranked pro coaches.
They're split stepping both on returns and during the rallies. You're wrong, and apparently do not know what a split step is. I already addressed the fact that many uninformed people think split steps require some leap into the air. Again, that's wrong.Neither player is split stepping for serve return.
In fact, neither player is split stepping for even a rally ball.
The point is that even an animal understands the importance of establishing a base before taking action. It's not a tennis split step, but it is the same concept.Your dog is not in the air before the throw the ball.
I'll be completely honest. I'm not responding because I want to convince him. He's willfully ignorant about a lot of things. I just wanted to make sure there was correct information available to others who might stumble across this thread. Someone new to the board could think he's knowledgeable because he posts constantly.You realize he has been playing tennis for 2 years, thinks topspin is dumb because it makes you hit the ball in the net, and thinks 3.5s hit harder than Nadal right?
Wait... why did guys stop?I was about 32 when I stopped hitting line drives into the back fence.
I post quite often as well hehehehehe.Someone new to the board could think he's knowledgeable because he posts constantly.
Synthetic grass courts vary pretty widely, mostly based on how old they are and whether they are sanded or unsanded. The older they are, and the more sand you add, the slower and deader they will play. A newer, moderately-sanded court should give you skiddy slice, plenty of pace, and plenty of bite and bounce on your topspin.I've played on synthetic turf and the ball does not bounce. Slice is the critical shot. Is that the same for natural grass?
He played tennis 15 years. Only had coaching for 2 years and he is crazy about it.You realize he has been playing tennis for 2 years, thinks topspin is dumb because it makes you hit the ball in the net, and thinks 3.5s hit harder than Nadal right?
J
Nope, your dog is not split stepping.
Your dog is not in the air before the throw the ball.
It's simply reacting by bending its legs, just like any human 3.0 does.
Film it and watch it slow motion.
Reacting is faster than a poorly timed up/down bunny hop
You're actually right.
Until you reach 4.5 men's tennis (1% unicorns of tennis), people simply don't hit with enough pace where a SS comes into play.
In fact, at levels below that, split steps have a negative effect, and make you later, since most n00bs don't time them correctly, including myself.
Watch WTA pros return serves, and you'll see that many don't split step. And they are pros. Not 3.5 rec players returning frying pan moonballs.
Have you ever seen a 3.0/3.5 woman's 2HBH volley? It is the worst thing ever. And no, @Cindysphinx not baiting you ... I have half a mind to decline partnering with anyone using it. I hate it that much.
Almost entirely choppy, almost always swingy ... greatly limits the ability to properly slice the volley.
It limits reach, it limits proper turn (especially for top heavy women). Often gets the ball popped up or dumped in the net.
And most important, slows any reaction time in a reflex volley situation ... with two hands you just can't volley as quickly.
If you don't bend your knees, turn, resist the urge to swing, set properly and use good footwork - no matter how many hands you use, your volleys are going to be shithouse.When we 3.5 women here at TT say how terrible the 2HBH volleys of our partners/teammates are, we hear the same thing every time: "Oh, 2HBH is fine if you bend your knees/turn/resist the urge to swing/set properly/use good footwork."
*That's exactly the problem.* If we 3.5 women had those things, maybe we could compensate for the disadvantages of a 2HBH. But those things are exactly the things we don't do very well.
See, that's not true.If you don't bend your knees, turn, resist the urge to swing, set properly and use good footwork - no matter how many hands you use, your volleys are going to be shithouse.
I swear to God, I am starting to wonder if this is just straight-up sexism. Do you ever see a male league player above 3.0 volley with two hands? I don't think I have seen it ever (or maybe I just blocked it out due to trauma of witnessing something so hideous). But women start off with a 2HBH volley, and no one suggests that they use 1H. Instead, people subscribe to the myth that the little lady is too weak to volley with one hand. I can't speak to 5.0 and up, but I am quite confident that any healthy adult female player 4.5 and below can volley effectively with a 1HBH volley. Happens all the time.
Synthetic grass courts vary pretty widely, mostly based on how old they are and whether they are sanded or unsanded. The older they are, and the more sand you add, the slower and deader they will play. A newer, moderately-sanded court should give you skiddy slice, plenty of pace, and plenty of bite and bounce on your topspin.
Natural grass also varies a fair bit, but in general it is just fast, low and unpredictable. It is the only surface I've played on where topspin is a genuine handicap, because it just makes your shots sit up. Slice and flat shots become critical.
You know the worst part?
When we 3.5 women here at TT say how terrible the 2HBH volleys of our partners/teammates are, we hear the same thing every time: "Oh, 2HBH is fine if you bend your knees/turn/resist the urge to swing/set properly/use good footwork."
*That's exactly the problem.* If we 3.5 women had those things, maybe we could compensate for the disadvantages of a 2HBH. But those things are exactly the things we don't do very well.
So when a teaching pro lets Becky hit a 2HBH (assuming Becky really wants to improve), the teaching pro is sentencing her to using a stroke that requires a lot of things that Becky is not good at now and may never be good at.
I swear to God, I am starting to wonder if this is just straight-up sexism. Do you ever see a male league player above 3.0 volley with two hands? I don't think I have seen it ever (or maybe I just blocked it out due to trauma of witnessing something so hideous). But women start off with a 2HBH volley, and no one suggests that they use 1H. Instead, people subscribe to the myth that the little lady is too weak to volley with one hand. I can't speak to 5.0 and up, but I am quite confident that any healthy adult female player 4.5 and below can volley effectively with a 1HBH volley. Happens all the time.
Geez, now you've got me all riled up. I see it all the time. Partner has a 2HBH volley and can crunch a lot of shoulder high volleys (usually crosscourt) while she is standing an arm's length from the net. But that's it. That's all she's got. She can't handle a ball lower than the net without bunting it or popping it up by scooping under it. She can't hit a low transition volley that is not a bunt. Balls to the body might as well be handcuffs. She cannot hit a delicate slice -- at best its a pitiful push that sits up begging to be smacked.
Why do that to poor newbie Becky? Tell the little lady to hit her BH volley with one hand and set her free.
Have you ever seen a 3.0/3.5 woman's 2HBH volley? It is the worst thing ever.
Almost entirely choppy, almost always swingy ... greatly limits the ability to properly slice the volley.
It limits reach, it limits proper turn (especially for top heavy women). Often gets the ball popped up or dumped in the net.
And most important, slows any reaction time in a reflex volley situation ... with two hands you just can't volley as quickly.
You know the worst part?
When we 3.5 women here at TT say how terrible the 2HBH volleys of our partners/teammates are, we hear the same thing every time: "Oh, 2HBH is fine if you bend your knees/turn/resist the urge to swing/set properly/use good footwork."
*That's exactly the problem.* If we 3.5 women had those things, maybe we could compensate for the disadvantages of a 2HBH. But those things are exactly the things we don't do very well.
So when a teaching pro lets Becky hit a 2HBH (assuming Becky really wants to improve), the teaching pro is sentencing her to using a stroke that requires a lot of things that Becky is not good at now and may never be good at.
I swear to God, I am starting to wonder if this is just straight-up sexism. Do you ever see a male league player above 3.0 volley with two hands?
I don't think I have seen it ever (or maybe I just blocked it out due to trauma of witnessing something so hideous). But women start off with a 2HBH volley, and no one suggests that they use 1H. Instead, people subscribe to the myth that the little lady is too weak to volley with one hand. I can't speak to 5.0 and up, but I am quite confident that any healthy adult female player 4.5 and below can volley effectively with a 1HBH volley. Happens all the time.
Ummmmmmmmm...I saw split steps on almost every ball, and all of their service returns. Osaka missed one split step when she was shuffling back from the corner and got wrong footed by a ball behind her. What exactly do you think a split step looks like? Either you don't know what it actually is, or you need your eyes checked.
Maybe it's just the private lessons I've had but I always get the impression coaches really only want to coach juniors. Is this the case? Seems tough to find a coach that is invested in improving adult rec play.
Badmrfrosty
It is not that coaches don't want to work with adults. It is coaches who don't want to work with adults who know it all. How can you teach someone
who knows every thing about tennis or won't change or attempt to change their flat take back and then pull the racquet forward flat. Try as you might, they are never going to develop a low to high swing path brushing the ball. Ain't gonna happen.
I told one client I could not help him. He ask why. I told him to forget everything he thought he knew about tennis and follow instructions and learn. If he could not do that he needed to fine another coach.
I am happy I don't have to deal with a know-it-all, who fights constantly to remain an old school terrible tennis player. Plus, I don't need him to tell people he takes lessons from me. If you give lessons your students need to show improvement, otherwise you won't have any students. If my only
failing is I push them too hard to become better, I can live with that.
Aloha
I'm curious what the breakdown is of your students over the years:
- know-it-all
- doesn't practice
- lacks enough athleticism to execute the concepts
- always argues; rarely listens/accepts
- doesn't want to be there [only is doing at someone else's request]
- receptive, practices, listens, implements, maps out a plan, etc
I'm curious what the breakdown is of your students over the years:
- know-it-all 10%
- doesn't practice 20%
- lacks enough athleticism to execute the concepts 10%
- always argues; rarely listens/accepts 20%
- doesn't want to be there [only is doing at someone else's request] 25%
- receptive, practices, listens, implements, maps out a plan, etc 15%
J
Do you teach "the loop"?...they are never going to develop a low to high swing path...
And how long do students in every category except the last stick with the program? For example, I'd guess that students who don't practice can persist for years.