batz
G.O.A.T.
LOLz - yep, that obnoxious guy who was just voted second most favourite player on tour by the fans. Your tears really are delicious - please post some more arsegravy. It pleases me.
Do the haters say Andy Murray is still not part of the big 4?
- Thread starter Flint
- Start date
LOLz - yep, that obnoxious guy who was just voted second most favourite player on tour by the fans. Your tears really are delicious - please post some more arsegravy. It pleases me.
ArcspacE
G.O.A.T.
I don't need mindless Twitter fanbois to form an opinion on a foul-mouthed, charmless clown. He hasn't furthered the sport once inch btw
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Deleted member 733170
Guest
He is light years away in terms of furthering the sport of lawn tennis than the keyboard troll who goes by the name of Arcspace.
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Deleted member 733170
Guest
Back on topic, for me it has now become the Big 3 and 7/8.
Would really like to see a multi slam season before I genuflect naked in the Scottish winter.
And I don't see any reason why he can't achieve that in 2017.
Would really like to see a multi slam season before I genuflect naked in the Scottish winter.
And I don't see any reason why he can't achieve that in 2017.
batz
G.O.A.T.
PMSL - You mad bro? Genuinely laughing at you now - say some more butthurt stuff for me please. There's a good lad.
Not until he has 10 slams. He was never a serious contender during Fed/Nadal and Djokovic era, and now there are really no Federe and Nadal in the picture, hence now that he is winning, there is not competition from Federer or Nadal, so how can he be part of it? There was never the big 4, only Murray fans use that term. No doubt he is dominant now, but there are no other 3 to compete against. Proof, Federer and Nadal didn't play World Tour Finals. Simply, there is no big four, never was.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
OP, you need to update this post, when something big happens. I did it for you below, no thanks needed 
ArcspacE
G.O.A.T.
Don't even like Djok to be butthurt - you however have been well and truly found out
Tardigrade
Banned
Hey Batz, congratz on Murray being #1. I did say he would be a deserving #1 in my eyes if he beat Djokovic and won the WTF's. IMO it was earned. (although I would still take Djokovic's year).
I thought the OP meant big four as in the history of the game. It's obvious he's a top 4 player of the past 5 years. It's so obvious I naturally assumed everyone knew it.
However, my point still stands from yesterday, it was a crap match for a match with high stakes.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
the Big 4 was coined waaaayy before Djoko became a legitimate part of it if you will. It was coined because all 4 of them would stand in the semifinals or better in the vast majority of the tournaments they played.
No one is saying Murray is their exact equal, but he's in a vastly different league than the rest of the field and I've got no problem including him in the Big 4.
That doesn't mean we can't have a Big 3 phrase as well.
batz
G.O.A.T.
Keep em coming bro - my workmates are now crowding round to see the latest instalment of your butthurt poasting.
You're not a Novak fan of course - but you are a Murray hater. Tough times eh?
Here's a bone for you:
www.samaritans.org
As a term, it may have been valid two years ago, as of now, it no longer applies. That much is clear, so I agree that two years ago, Andy Murray was part of the Big Four, but today, The Big Four no longer exist. This has nothing to do with Murray, but with Fed and Nadal being out of the Big Four. Now, we might say Big 2, plus Wawrinka if he wants to make an effort.
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Deleted member 733170
Guest
I think the key point to remember is that no one was calling Novak out for being a member of the Big 3 when he only had six slams!!
So I standpoint by my point that the only thing missing from Murray is a multi slam season and I hope the Gods give him one in 2017.
So I standpoint by my point that the only thing missing from Murray is a multi slam season and I hope the Gods give him one in 2017.
ArcspacE
G.O.A.T.
Stop lying you have a real job - everyone knows you're stuck at home after school having to do your homework instead of frothing over photos of the peasant. I mean who the hell wears a cap indoors at night?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I'm hoping they'll give one to Djokovic too.
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Deleted member 733170
Guest
I'm hoping they'll give one to Djokovic too.
I guess after all his efforts he deserves Cincy and the Mixed Doubles at Wimbledon with Ivanovic.
Fingers crossed!!!
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Not quite what I had in mind but I guess it's better than nothing.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
at least 6 more, I hope you mean. Anyone short of double digits slam is just not worthy.
We used to say the same thing about both Rafa and Novak back in early 2010, when they were on 6 and 1 slam if you recall?
At that time Murray had 0. And now it's 17-14-12-3, don't you think that the gap is little too big between 12 and 3? And if you look other achievements as well, Murray simply isn't in the same league with the big 3. But he certainly is with Wawrinka.
Tardigrade
Banned
Even I have a good job. It's nothing to brag about.
DreddyTennis45
Hall of Fame
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Murray has 14 Masters to Wawrinka's 1.
Murray's got what, 350? weeks in the top 4 to Wawrinkas 30?
Murray's got 43 tournament wins to Wawrinka's 15 or so.
Murray's got 12 slam finals to Wawrinka's 3.
Murray's got 29 Big 3 wins vs. Wawrinkas 8 or so.
Etc. Don't you think the gap is a little too big to consider them equals? Wawrinka does.
Sure, there's a gap between Murray and the Big 3, but to me it makes sense to have him as part of their group. None of them have ever hinted at him not belonging in the big 4. And we know Feddy ain't politically correct about saying what he feels.
http://www.dropshotdispatch.com/2011/11/20/top-10-roger-federer-verbal-jabs-at-andy-murray/
Se also my post above:
The Fedfather
Legend
So the gap is a little too big for Wawrinka to be in the same league as Murray but it makes sense to have Andy in the same group as Federer? That's a double standard.
Gullyfoyle
Rookie
Don't think you know what a double standard is.
The Fedfather
Legend
It means applying a certain principle differently to different people.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
I'm pretty sure batz has a real job and I'm pretty sure he never froths over anything (unless it's from a pint pot or he's been ogling pics of the divine Annabel again).
I'll grant you that one. I don't know why he's taken to wearing a cap these days either!
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Let' see..who's the more clownish:
1. A guy who has won multiple Slams, multiple other titles, just won the WTF and become world no.#1? or......
2. A guy who has won just 4 small titles and currently languishes at world no. #17?
What do you think? Shall we have a poll to decide?
Gullyfoyle
Rookie
Yea, but you apply it like your plastering a room.
The Fedfather
Legend
I don't quite see what you mean.
Gullyfoyle
Rookie
I rest my case m'lud.
Fiero425
Legend
6 majors, 3 in '11 alone is still twice as many as Murray's 3 along with multiple Masters 1000 titles and a WTF to his name very early!
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nowhereman
Guest
The whole Big 4 is just a media-made concept with no real objective definition anyway. If you think he should be in it, then that's fine. But I don't think you should call someone a hater just because they have a different opinion.
Gap between Big 3 and Murray is MUCH bigger than a gap between Murray and Wawrinka. Murray is certainly greater than Wawa, but they both have 3 slams.
Freddy Cat
Professional
Why do people need to derive contentment in their favourite player from the input of others? Why can't everyone just be content and not have a constant point to prove like they vicariously live through that player? Come on.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Sure, Wawa's in Andy's league in two regards - number of slams won + winning the DC (which I don't consider that important tbh)
Andy's not in the league of the Big 3 in terms of slams won nor weeks at no. 1, but he's in their league in pretty much every other regard.
See above.
Essentially, Murray's in a league of his own. He's obviously not at Big 3 level, hence the 3 slams. But he's obviously not on a rest of the tour level either, hence his 40+ tour titles, relatively decent h2h vs. the Big 3, 14 Masters, 12 slam finals and now snatching the no. 1 ranking away from a Djokovic who's won 2 slams and 4 Masters this year + made the final of another slam and the WTF.
Until Wawa, there was no one else anywhere near Murray in terms of career accomplishments outside the Big 3. Now because Wawa has gone all Stanimal 3 times in the slams, he's ended up with as many as Murray despite only playing 1/4 of the slam finals to do so.
Wawa is a personal favorite of mine, Murray isn't.
Yet I have no problem putting Murray in the Big 4 category. Why? Because he's been an essential part of the conversation for the past 9 years, being at the business end of most big tournaments time and time again, rarely dropping below 6.000-7.000 ranking points – a number neither Wawa nor Delpo or Söderling have been above iirc.
Wawa's done that for 3 years now and only in the slams + WTF (minus this year for the WTF).
Does that mean Murray is as good as the Big 3? No. But he doesn't need to be to be part of their group. Djokovic wasn't either in 2010. And Rafa was 10 slams behind Fed in early 2010, but leading the h2h.
I am Scottish and really delighted for Andy that after all his hard work he finally and deservedly holds No 1 spot at end of calendar year.
However unlike a lot of the British(mainly English media & press) i am not getting carried away.
There is no doubt that along with Fred Perry Murray is best male British tennis player ever and one of UK's leading sportsmen but he is still not in same league as Rafa, Roger or Novak if we are looking at their careers to date.
The Big three have all won at least 12 slams each and have won every slam at least once, also they have held the Year end No1 slot for 3,5 & 4 years respectively i believe.
There is no doubt right now that Murray is current World No1 but as i said historically he is still long way behind the three giants of recent Tennis
However unlike a lot of the British(mainly English media & press) i am not getting carried away.
There is no doubt that along with Fred Perry Murray is best male British tennis player ever and one of UK's leading sportsmen but he is still not in same league as Rafa, Roger or Novak if we are looking at their careers to date.
The Big three have all won at least 12 slams each and have won every slam at least once, also they have held the Year end No1 slot for 3,5 & 4 years respectively i believe.
There is no doubt right now that Murray is current World No1 but as i said historically he is still long way behind the three giants of recent Tennis
Fiero425
Legend
Finally someone a little more rational with expectations and the current state of affairs! Bless you and thanks!
Serjojeee
Rookie
To me he always was the pathetic part of big four. Like the food chain in tennis - the best goes to lions, then something to jaguars, then wolves take their bite, and all the ill and frail are victims of hyenas. Injured and weak Djokovic was eaten by Murray, I can literally hear his hyenas laughing echoing, rolling down the desert of aging tennis field. Kudos for his longevity. With all the respect, God made this world to give us lessons, and the hyena is as beautiful as lion in some ways, it's just making it's business the other way.
Gullyfoyle
Rookie
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Deleted member 307496
Guest
Even Hewitt is better than Stan. Murray is leagues above him, be objective.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Even when Djokovic was at only 4-6 slams, people were still putting him in the same ballpark as Federer and Nadal. So Murray deserves his spot in the Big 4 too.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Agreed, see above:
↑
Vladimir: Murray needs at least 5 more slams to become legitimate member of the big 4.
Me: at least 6 more, I hope you mean. Anyone short of double digits slam is just not worthy.
We used to say the same thing about both Rafa and Novak back in early 2010, when they were on 6 and 1 slam if you recall?
