Do you kill the net player if you get a short ball? doubles.

Searah

Semi-Pro
for me, it is "out of character" i feel like if i do it then people will think "i'm angry or trying to hard" or i feel like it'll create tension.

especially if i am to spend the rest of the day/night with them. to me it'll feel like i declared war.

"aim at the player if they do it to you?"

my game is not very powerful.. it'll feel like i am "angry" and wanted revenge but failed and now there is a different type of tension like a "oh you hitting me at the net actually hurt my feelings and i wanted to get you back but instead failed because you volleyed a winner off it"

thoughts?
 

Morch Us

Semi-Pro
Never heard of a player getting "killed" at net in tennis. The tennis ball is too soft to kill someone, and as long as you are alert at net, you can avoid getting hit at some key areas like eyes. :)

Now coming to the point you are trying to make. It is the basics of doubles that when you can be volleying (not overhead) aggressive at net (can hit the ball down) you go AT the opponent net player. It does not mean you are hitting that at 120m/hr. Your main intention is to get them 1. Unable to stretch their racket (so that there wont be any power/control even if they put a racket back on it). 2. Even if they get a racket on it, it comes back "UP" on you, so you can clean it up with an overhead, possibly away from all players. 3. You want the ball to COME BACK TO YOU (if it comes back), rather than going somewhere random.

So NO you don't try to kill the net opponent, but YES you do volley down to his knee or below. And NO it does not hurt.

Above all .... NO when you have a chance to finish clean to open court on an overhead you do NOT go at opponent net player (or the baseline player), especially at recreational tennis.
 
for me, it is "out of character" i feel like if i do it then people will think "i'm angry or trying to hard" or i feel like it'll create tension.

especially if i am to spend the rest of the day/night with them. to me it'll feel like i declared war.

"aim at the player if they do it to you?"

my game is not very powerful.. it'll feel like i am "angry" and wanted revenge but failed and now there is a different type of tension like a "oh you hitting me at the net actually hurt my feelings and i wanted to get you back but instead failed because you volleyed a winner off it"

thoughts?
Watch high-level doubles; happens all of the time [not the "killed" part].

Hitting AT the net man can be good strategy: it's a very difficult shot to fend off because you have so little time. I'm not trying to hit them; I'm trying to hit AT them. My intent isn't to hurt or intimidate; it's tactical in nature.

I go into a doubles match accepting I could get hit. In fact, it's such a normal part of the game that I don't think about it, any more than I think about getting burned DTL when I poach or getting passed when I S&V; it's just part of doubles.

The problem isn't the act itself: it's how the act is perceived [and how it makes you feel]. If you play, say, 4.5, I doubt anyone will bat an eye. You apologize and you move on. But if you're playing at a level where such an act is considered hostile, I guess you'd better take that into account before you step on the court. No amount of explaining will change hurt feelings.

Watch Bophanna absolutely nail Mike Bryan and the aftermath:

FF to 12:03


At the very end of the real-time video, you can see Mike hold up his hand in acknowledgement to say "no problem".
 
for me, it is "out of character" i feel like if i do it then people will think "i'm angry or trying to hard" or i feel like it'll create tension.

especially if i am to spend the rest of the day/night with them. to me it'll feel like i declared war.

"aim at the player if they do it to you?"

my game is not very powerful.. it'll feel like i am "angry" and wanted revenge but failed and now there is a different type of tension like a "oh you hitting me at the net actually hurt my feelings and i wanted to get you back but instead failed because you volleyed a winner off it"

thoughts?
You do not seem like an angry person.
 

toth

Semi-Pro
Never heard of a player getting "killed" at net in tennis. The tennis ball is too soft to kill someone, and as long as you are alert at net, you can avoid getting hit at some key areas like eyes. :)

Now coming to the point you are trying to make. It is the basics of doubles that when you can be volleying (not overhead) aggressive at net (can hit the ball down) you go AT the opponent net player. It does not mean you are hitting that at 120m/hr. Your main intention is to get them 1. Unable to stretch their racket (so that there wont be any power/control even if they put a racket back on it). 2. Even if they get a racket on it, it comes back "UP" on you, so you can clean it up with an overhead, possibly away from all players. 3. You want the ball to COME BACK TO YOU (if it comes back), rather than going somewhere random.

So NO you don't try to kill the net opponent, but YES you do volley down to his knee or below. And NO it does not hurt.

Above all .... NO when you have a chance to finish clean to open court on an overhead you do NOT go at opponent net player (or the baseline player), especially at recreational tennis.
If both teams has a one up, one back formation - most usefull in rec tennis - and the ,,A" teams net player is getting ready for a normal overhead, scould not the ,,B" teams netman move back from the net?
It gives much more chanche the ,,B" team to stay in the point and would solve the treads problem too.
 
If both teams has a one up, one back formation - most usefull in rec tennis - and the ,,A" teams net player is getting ready for a normal overhead, scould not the ,,B" teams netman move back from the net?
It gives much more chanche the ,,B" team to stay in the point and would solve the treads problem too.
Netman B might not react at all or in time.

Even if he does, netman A can still target him: a short lob doesn't give that much time to retreat.
 

toby55555

Hall of Fame
Having nothing better to do I joined in a social tennis session at my club earlier this year and a couple of weeks later had an email from the chairman stating there had been a complaint I had bodylined an opponent at the net.
I had no memory of this but I presume I went for a down the line shot; anyway I can see why team players don’t bother with social and certainly won’t be going again.
There was also a complaint at the AGM that team players don’t mix in with social......
 

PMF

New User
The volley is my best shot. When playing at the net in doubles, I always try to angle my volleys away from opponents for the winner. Less chance of the ball coming back. Also, if I have to hit the ball directly at someone, I prefer to keep it low and at their feet.

At the club level, going after the net person (at close range) is kind of risky. I could tell you some stories :)
 
When you put up a short lob that you think might put your partner in jeopardy, you should immediately say "SHORT" loudly enough for your partner to hear. This allows him time to retreat. Problem is virtually no one does this.
And then you'll have some opponents who complain this is a hindrance. Admittedly, depending on how loudly you shout, it could be startling.

Something happened similar to me: both my partner and I were at net and I could tell that the BL guy was going to lob so I told my partner "lob" before the guy contacted the ball. He rightly pointed out that was a no-no. Now I do it sotto voce and hope my partner's paying attention.
 
The volley is my best shot. When playing at the net in doubles, I always try to angle my volleys away from opponents for the winner. Less chance of the ball coming back.
The downside is that there often is not that much of a window between the reach of your opponent and the sideline. So it's a balancing act. I try to mix up my shots so my opponents don't get comfortable with me always doing one thing.

I remember once I got a sitter lob and both opponents moved towards the alleys because that's where they thought I would hit it. I ended up going DTM for an easy winner. It was like the parting of the Red Sea. Then they good-naturedly got mad at me for not doing what they expected.
 
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Ronaldo

Talk Tennis Guru
Was told in mxd that when about to get whacked, retreat behind the service and center line for defense.
 

Morch Us

Semi-Pro
True. But a lot of rec players playing doubles, especially at lower levels are slow to react (caught with it is not by ball laziness), and would be too late to move back. If you are caught like that depending on the guy who is hitting overhead it is not a bad idea to sometimes just give up the point and move out of the court (and hope that he dumps the overhead to net).

If both teams has a one up, one back formation - most usefull in rec tennis - and the ,,A" teams net player is getting ready for a normal overhead, scould not the ,,B" teams netman move back from the net?
It gives much more chanche the ,,B" team to stay in the point and would solve the treads problem too.
 

tonylg

Hall of Fame
A lot of doubles players are surprised when they find out that there is heat in a kitchen.
Singles players too.


And that wasn't even close to the same league as some of the drillings Lendl gave players.

If you find yourself at close quarters and you don't have the skills to be there, just turn your back. If you get hit anywhere painful, it's really your own fault.
 

esgee48

Legend
What you do with a short lob or floater depends on how good you can hit your targets. If you can control the shot, you hit an angled OH or volly away from the net person. Expect them to stab and return. If not, relax. If your accuracy is suspect or you do not have put away power, aim at the net person's forehand hip to jam or at their feet. Again, expect a bad return and continue to do so until you can put it away.
 
Singles players too.


And that wasn't even close to the same league as some of the drillings Lendl gave players.

If you find yourself at close quarters and you don't have the skills to be there, just turn your back. If you get hit anywhere painful, it's really your own fault.
A lot of doubles players play up at the net not because they have the skills to defend themselves but because they were told that's how to play doubles. And they weren't taught what to do when someone potentially could hit at them. So getting hit is not particularly their fault. It may not even be the fault of the person who hit the ball because they may lack control.
 
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You can see what Djokovic thought of getting hit. The announcer thinks it's good entertainment.

At some short range, the players cannot react in time. An eye could be hit.

Hitting a player in the eye may be within the rules, but if you injured someone's eye by deliberately going at them at close range, how would that be? What would you say?

---------------------------------------------------------
Quote from a publication abstract. >"100,000" is probably worldwide eye injuries in tennis. ?
"...........This is why many ophthalmologists provide a wide range of information for their patients regarding the risks of eye injuries in tennis to prevent the injury to well over 100,000 eyes each year. "

Another issue for older players. Many or most people will eventually experience 'vitreous degeneration' where the jell/liquid of the eye separates from the retina. During the time that this separation is occurring, there is an increased probability that the retina will tear. Patients are warned not mimimize the risks by not bumping the head. Many people do not know when the separation is occuring. These people might receive retinal damage from a tennis ball to the head, or much worse, to the eye.
 
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fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
for me, it is "out of character" i feel like if i do it then people will think "i'm angry or trying to hard" or i feel like it'll create tension.

especially if i am to spend the rest of the day/night with them. to me it'll feel like i declared war.

"aim at the player if they do it to you?"

my game is not very powerful.. it'll feel like i am "angry" and wanted revenge but failed and now there is a different type of tension like a "oh you hitting me at the net actually hurt my feelings and i wanted to get you back but instead failed because you volleyed a winner off it"

thoughts?
I specifically address this issue with the high school teams I coach. I routinely point out that there's a big difference between head-hunting where a player is recklessly gunning for an opponent - I'm not cool with that - vs. hitting down into an opponent's feet. Some of the kids I coach don't have a whole bunch of control around the net and I don't want them hitting toward opponents in general. Others have a little more composure and command of their shots up at the net and those are the ones who can create an advantage for themselves when they look to volley into the feet of their opponents.

Hitting into the feet of an opponent is technically "hitting at an opponent", but I don't think it's the same sort of nasty or potentially dangerous play compared with trying to drive or smash through opponents. When I encourage let's say volleying into an opponent's feet, the idea here is to use that as a setup shot that forces the other guy to hit up with a weak reply. That weak reply is usually a sitter that's rather easy to pop through an open lane. So I coach the kids to hit into an opponent's feet to create an opening - much different from playing beanball.

Some doubles players will be offended even when you hit at their feet instead of away from them. I'm talking about a routine volley and not a smash. That's their problem. It's not much fun if they try to make it your problem by targeting you, but then you need to decide to what degree you want to mess with that style of play. I'm not a fan of pouring more gas on that fire, so I generally try to either direct a smash or hit putaways toward open space.
 

tonylg

Hall of Fame
You can see what Djokovic thought of getting hit. The announcer thinks it's good entertainment.

At some short range, the players cannot react in time. An eye could be hit.

Hitting a player in the eye may be within the rules, but if you injured someone's eye by deliberately going at them at close range, how would that be? What would you say?
Are you serious?

Djokovic hit a terrible shot and knowing he has hands of wood, stood there front on to cut off all angles, almost daring Nadal to go at him. He could have turned his back, but chose not to.

The commentator didn't say it was entertaining, he said it was the right shot. It was and should not have been unexpected. It wasn't a Lendl line drive and a good volleyer could have well picked out off.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
And then you'll have some opponents who complain this is a hindrance. Admittedly, depending on how loudly you shout, it could be startling.

Something happened similar to me: both my partner and I were at net and I could tell that the BL guy was going to lob so I told my partner "lob" before the guy contacted the ball. He rightly pointed out that was a no-no. Now I do it sotto voce and hope my partner's paying attention.
Well yeah some might complain that this is a hindrance, but it ain't. I think we've had this discussion here before. You want to say SHORT immediately, and you want to do this as soon as possible to give your partner maximum time to retreat. You don't need to holler something just as the other guy is hitting the ball.
 
Well yeah some might complain that this is a hindrance, but it ain't. I think we've had this discussion here before. You want to say SHORT immediately, and you want to do this as soon as possible to give your partner maximum time to retreat. You don't need to holler something just as the other guy is hitting the ball.
The rule states that you can't yell when the ball is travelling towards your opponents; it's irrelevant which side of the net the ball is on.

From the 2015 Code:
HINDRANCE ISSUES

Claiming a hindrance. A player who claims a hindrance must stop play as soon as possible.

Talking when ball is in play
  • Singles players should not talk during points.
    Talking between doubles partners when the ball is moving toward them is allowed.
  • Doubles players should not talk when the ball is moving toward their opponent’s court.
  • When talking interferes with an opponent’s ability to play a ball, it is a hindrance.
 

zipplock

Semi-Pro
Nothing wrong with going at the net person. You will likely jam them, best case they get the ball back with no pace/angle and you're set for an easy put away. Worst case you hit them and win the point.
 
Nothing wrong with going at the net person. You will likely jam them, best case they get the ball back with no pace/angle and you're set for an easy put away. Worst case you hit them and win the point.
I would not go at a select few because of their amazing reflexes and tendency to come up with great defensive plays. Everyone else is fair game.
 

zipplock

Semi-Pro
I would not go at a select few because of their amazing reflexes and tendency to come up with great defensive plays. Everyone else is fair game.
That's true. Ocassionally I'll play against someone who is very good at the net. They have very good "feel" and anticipate well, which buys them the time they need. I'll try at them 2-3 times. If they are solid at the net I won't go at them anymore. You never know till you test them though.
 

tonylg

Hall of Fame
Much harder to hit McEnroe than Djokovic. The time Lendl nailed Gerulaitis was even more savage. Nadal's was just a push.
 

tonylg

Hall of Fame
Here it is.


Vitas knew it could get hot in the kitchen. Just got up and walked back, instead of sooking about it.
 
The rule states that you can't yell when the ball is travelling towards your opponents; it's irrelevant which side of the net the ball is on.

From the 2015 Code:
HINDRANCE ISSUES

Claiming a hindrance. A player who claims a hindrance must stop play as soon as possible.

Talking when ball is in play
  • Singles players should not talk during points.
    Talking between doubles partners when the ball is moving toward them is allowed.
  • Doubles players should not talk when the ball is moving toward their opponent’s court.
  • When talking interferes with an opponent’s ability to play a ball, it is a hindrance.
A little more explanation from the code....

"Talking during a point. A player shall not talk while the ball is moving toward his opponent’s side of the court. If the player’s talking interferes with this opponent’s ability to play the ball, it is a hindrance and the player loses the point. Talking between doubles partners when the ball is moving towards them is allowed; they should not talk, however, when the ball is moving towards their opponents’ court. Consider the situation where a player hits a weak lob and loudly yells at his partner to get back. If the shout is loud enough to distract his opponent who is about to hit the ball, the opponent may claim the point based on a deliberate hindrance. If the opponent chooses to hit the lob and misses it, the opponent loses the point because he did not make a timely claim of hindrance."

If all I am doing is trying to keep my partner from getting injured I don't see how that could be called a deliberate hindrance. What am I supposed to do? Run over and whisper in his ear?
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
I rarely go directly at a net player, but do hit hard close or dipping. I've had plenty of balls head level right at me, and taken a few off the should/chest. No biggy.
 

chic

Semi-Pro
Honestly, just go for them. If it's not league or tournament or something like that (ie if it's just social or a mixer) then gauge and respect their reactions. I think you'll be surprised by how many people relish getting the chance to defend, and if someone gets huffy make a mental note, apologize quick, and back off them in the future.
 

tonylg

Hall of Fame
I thought of this thread last night. I got nailed and finished up flat on my back. Hadn't really thought much about it before, but I reckon I probably get hit or hit someone at least once in every three or four sets. Doubles is about owning the net and forcing your opponents off it. Unless it's purely malicious (Gonzo hitting Stepanek), then at any half decent level of tennis going at the body is not only okay, it's to be expected.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
I thought of this thread last night. I got nailed and finished up flat on my back. Hadn't really thought much about it before, but I reckon I probably get hit or hit someone at least once in every three or four sets. Doubles is about owning the net and forcing your opponents off it. Unless it's purely malicious (Gonzo hitting Stepanek), then at any half decent level of tennis going at the body is not only okay, it's to be expected.
Does "it's to be expected" mean it is ok to go for the [witless] netperson's face or body, even if it wins you point?

At what hitting strength, intent would make it ok?



I ask but clearly don't expect any good answer since this is all arbitrary, subjective. Because it's all subjective and recreational and dangerous, it's really not worth it. Pro comparison is moot. Pros may have millions to retire with injury. We don't.

I do not aim for the player. I aim a foot away from their body and win almost all the time. I have never hit anybody's body with my ground stroke. :)
 
A little more explanation from the code....

"Talking during a point. A player shall not talk while the ball is moving toward his opponent’s side of the court. If the player’s talking interferes with this opponent’s ability to play the ball, it is a hindrance and the player loses the point. Talking between doubles partners when the ball is moving towards them is allowed; they should not talk, however, when the ball is moving towards their opponents’ court. Consider the situation where a player hits a weak lob and loudly yells at his partner to get back. If the shout is loud enough to distract his opponent who is about to hit the ball, the opponent may claim the point based on a deliberate hindrance. If the opponent chooses to hit the lob and misses it, the opponent loses the point because he did not make a timely claim of hindrance."

If all I am doing is trying to keep my partner from getting injured I don't see how that could be called a deliberate hindrance. What am I supposed to do? Run over and whisper in his ear?
The Code seems to value decorum over injury prevention.

I can see having zero success making your argument to a roving umpire.
 

tonylg

Hall of Fame
Oh, hang on .. I missed the word "witless".

I said at any half decent level of tennis. Hitting with kids or beginners is different to a proper match between people who can actually play. If you could play, you'd know that.
 
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