That's because even when you're playing tennis, she's always right.Yes in men's doubles
NEVER when i play mixed with my wife
No,support your doubles pard.
I've done it and it is never good for team work, but at least I don't feel guilty about it later. When they've done it to me, sometimes they have been wrong and that got me steamed.
Even if you are certain that he/she is wrong? How is that not cheating?
This should rarely happen because it is the one who is nearest to the ball to make the call. If the partner calls it out immediately I'd say 99% of the time he saw it better than you...
I correct bad calls by my partner, as long as I'm sure a ball was out. If I think it might have been out, but I'm not right on top of the call, I will let it go.
I generally go with my partner's call unless it's completely off. If my opponents continue questioning the call after I verify my partner's call, I usually end up offering to replay the point. No point arguing for 20 minutes over a call
This is fallacious thinking and is a very common misconception. The person closest to the ball very often does not have the best view of the ball with respect to the line. If a player is very close to the bounce point, their ability to make an accurate call on a ball on the line or close to the line is very poor.
The problem in this situation is that the player in question is usually trying to track the ball rather than focusing on the line. Certified linesman are taught not to watch the ball when it approaches close to a line of interest. If it appears that a ball will bounce close to a line, they stop watching the ball and focus on the line instead -- keeping their head & eyes very still before and after the bounce event.
This is not the case with the player who is trying to to return a ball. They are tracking the ball and their head and/or eyes are usually moving. Studies have shown that our ability to make an accurate ball when the head/eyes are moving is extremely poor.
In addition, even when the head/eyes are still, the ball is usually traversing the field of vision much too quickly when it is in close proximity for the smooth pursuit (visual) system to track accurately. Quite often, the ball essentially becomes "invisible" for a short period of time when it is in close proximity. How often do you really seen the ball as it comes into contact with your strings? It is impossible most of the time. This is a similar situation for balls that bounce very close to us.
This is fallacious thinking and is a very common misconception. The person closest to the ball very often does not have the best view of the ball with respect to the line. If a player is very close to the bounce point, their ability to make an accurate call on a ball on the line or close to the line is very poor.
The problem in this situation is that the player in question is usually trying to track the ball rather than focusing on the line. Certified linesman are taught not to watch the ball when it approaches close to a line of interest. If it appears that a ball will bounce close to a line, they stop watching the ball and focus on the line instead -- keeping their head & eyes very still before and after the bounce event.
This is not the case with the player who is trying to to return a ball. They are tracking the ball and their head and/or eyes are usually moving. Studies have shown that our ability to make an accurate ball when the head/eyes are moving is extremely poor.
In addition, even when the head/eyes are still, the ball is usually traversing the field of vision much too quickly when it is in close proximity for the smooth pursuit (visual) system to track accurately. Quite often, the ball essentially becomes "invisible" for a short period of time when it is in close proximity. How often do you really seen the ball as it comes into contact with your strings? It is impossible most of the time. This is a similar situation for balls that bounce very close to us.
Where I see the bad calls made is on the serves. I see the ball on the line and the partner does not. So I either overrule and bear the brunt of partner hatred of don't and cringe.
SA, are you talking about having both players back (other than ROS)? Cuz, I am talking about having both players up 1/2 of the time or more, or one up one back.
If both players are up - balls that goes wide cannot be easily called by the partner further away. First you got the other partner in the way, second, it goes parallel to the line, which is harder to call. If you get a deep lob and that means only one guy is chasing it, turning 180 facing the fence, the net should be moving to cover, should not be 180 ball watching. Therefore the guy chasing the ball should have the best view of the bounce.
If playing one up one back - I can see the situation you described, but only when the baseline guy is standing very close to the baseline hitting a ball on the rise. perhaps? I play singles and have no problem calling a baseline ball out unless it is super fast going right at my feet, AND I am standing a couple inches from the baseline. I mean I have to stand my ground and not move back at all to let happen. IF the ball is bouncing on the far side, over the net guy wide, or long, the net guy should switch to the other side while the baseline guy goes after that ball. The net guy is going away from the ball, it would be difficult to call the baseline ball out.
Only a person who is in line with the baseline like a line judge can call it better. But the net person is never in line with the baseline at any given time. So this only works on calling a serve or when both guys are back. I am no expert doubles player but I never play both back. My coach pushes us to play both up. And when we play one up one back the net guy is too busy cover the net and doesn't look back long enough to make over rule calls.
question for woodrow in particular(since i understand you´re a professional umpire)
when i play on clay, do i need to be able to show a clear mark if i call a ball out?
problem 1, sometimes on wet courts it´s difficult to see a clear mark
problem 2, once i look away from the mark, i might not be able to find it again with certainty. in situations when i don´t expect the call to be challenged in the first place that can happen.
Well, the Code states that on any point ending shot or ball that you call out that is very close, that you should take an extra second to confirm you saw it correctly if you call it out. That being said, yes there are times when you don't see a clear mark; however, you know the ball is out. You are not required to show a ball mark, because it is still your call to make on your side of the net. But, if you start making a lot of out calls on balls that are very close, and every time you are asked to show a mark you say you don't have it or you don't know where it is, you are just going to lose credibility with opponents and officials.
I will absolutely overrule if my partner makes a bad call. The reason being is that in doubles people will not walk away saying 'that 1 guy cheats', they will say 'they cheat', I don't want to be included in the 'they' when I haven't made bad calls.
Since you cared enough to comment,^^^that's why I said I will overrule if my partner makes a bad call. Are you actually agreeing with me?
You just like to argue don't you? Why are going on about what would happen if I didn't overrule the bad call when I clearly said I would and I already made that point? I've wasted enough time with you...Since you cared enough to comment,
Actually, what you said is you would overrule so you wouldn't be seen as a cheat...
as though you thought it would be wrongful to group you in with the bad caller.
It would not be wrongful though,
as not correcting the call would rightfully group you in with the cheater.
Imo it would be better to correct the call because you don't want to cheat,
and not out of concern of being seen as one.
Maybe that is what you meant.
Since you cared enough to comment,
Actually, what you said is you would overrule so you wouldn't be seen as a cheat...
as though you thought it would be wrongful to group you in with the bad caller.
It would not be wrongful though,
as not correcting the call would rightfully group you in with the cheater.
Imo it would be better to correct the call because you don't want to cheat,
and not out of concern of being seen as one.
Maybe that is what you meant.
Right, because it would be impossible for a player to make a bad call, and for that person's partner to not see it (either clearly or at all)? In that case, yes it would be wrongful to group you in with the cheater, and I would think that a reasonable person would understand that on the other side of the net. The unreasonable ones are the one that say "They cheat" instead of he cheats because they ASSUME that the partner had a good enough look to overrule the partner.
Why are going on about what would happen if I didn't overrule the bad call when I clearly said I would .
and how that was your motivation to act...opposed tothey will say 'they cheat', I don't want to be included in the 'they' when I haven't made bad calls.
thanks for answering. sometimes a ball is clearly out and yet your opponent/s will still question your call and ask to see a mark.
in cases like that, it sometimes happens that you can´t show the mark because you´ve taken your eyes off it, not expecting any controversy
^ Some players value team solidarity over fairness. With many players it is often a matter of pride or "saving face". If one players makes a call, it is up to their partner to support their call so that they are not embarrassed or "lose face". With many players, this concept of "saving face" is a strong cultural imperative. In most American and many Euro cultures, the concept of sportstsmanship or "fair play" is a strong moral imperative -- greater than the idea of "saving face".
.
I think this is the reason some recommend the correction coming after a huddle with your partner to discuss and give him the chance to correct himself.
Not necessarily. If you didn't see it land, it's acceptable to ask your partner if he/she is sure of the call. Remember, you don't have to agree. You just cant disagree, and you can't both be unsure.hmm... the moment you approach your partner to discuss the call would mean that there is a disagreement between you and your partner and that would mean the loss of point by default right?
hmm... the moment you approach your partner to discuss the call would mean that there is a disagreement between you and your partner and that would mean the loss of point by default right?
Not necessarily. If you didn't see it land, it's acceptable to ask your partner if he/she is sure of the call. Remember, you don't have to agree. You just cant disagree, and you can't both be unsure.
It does matter to the post I quoted.None of these rules matters to those who willfully cheat.
The bottom line is this is an honor system and only works if people go by their honors. Agreement, disagreement, second guessing partner is all moot point because people, cheaters will learn quickly and do things that favor them.