Do You Really Need Poly?

[fortun8son]

This is for the newbies.
Poly is for hard- hitting, topspin string breakers.
It dies quickly.
You must change it often.
Yes, it does not break easily, but if that's why you want to use it, that's the wrong reason.
Most of you would be better off with syngut, multi, or natgut. Or even Kevlar!
Just my 2 cents

 

[ethebull]

I guess there are many new or low level players that use poly because it is the "in thing", though I don't know why you'd say even kevlar would be better. I think many enjoy using it because they can hit harder with better control. This is in part due to the popularity of stiff, powerful 100" and larger frames. I would agree with you a lot more if most everyone used racquets that were 95" and smaller.

 

[rudester]

I guess there are many new or low level players that use poly because it is the "in thing", though I don't know why you'd say even kevlar would be better. I think many enjoy using it because they can hit harder with better control. This is in part due to the popularity of stiff, powerful 100" and larger frames. I would agree with you a lot more if most everyone used racquets that were 95" and smaller.

I think you've hit on something there, I have a fairly extensive racquet collection and string my own rackets, while i don't have many racquets in the 100" category and tend to collect racquets that are classic and have a smaller head size, I have found that Poly doesn't have much of an advantage on racquets below 90 square inches. Many of the smaller headed older frames seem to have such great control that not a lot is gained by the use of Poly, and IMHO there is less feel.
Having said this, i do see benefit in the extra control that Poly offers in my 95+ racquets. In this case Poly seems to tame the extra power and of course provides terrific spin. My choice of strings in a frame always takes into account the head size string pattern and specific frame itself, to try to optimize performance. Like many on this board i enjoy the challenge of matching string to frame.

 

[Rjb49]

Amen to that!

 

[Sandwichman]

I use the YT Prestige mid, and string it with full poly. If you lower the tension, it retains feel. That said, I do use mutis when I'm not too lazy to order them!

 

[Up&comer]

No. There isn't a single player that NEEDS poly. There will always be durability issues with higher level players. The advent of poly strings has changed the game though. I use poly because I like the crisp feel and I like the fact it doesn't break after 2 or 3 hours. I don't need it though.

 

[UCSF2012]

Perhaps they like how the strings don't move. I'm neutral on poly, but I abhor how multi's move and you have to adjust them before every point. My fingers hurt.

 

[nalvarado]

I'd play full multi if it did not break so quickly. I'll try full RIP once it warms up a bit more.

 

[Agent Orynge]

I was the same way about string movement, until I realized you don't really have to adjust them. It's more of a subconscious thing than anything else.

 

[baek57]

If you aren't able to break a syn gut within 5 hours of hitting, you don't hit hard enough to warrant the use of poly. This means most people should not be using poly, but they do anyways. This is my opinion anyway.

 

[BigT]

This is for the newbies.
Poly is for hard- hitting, topspin string breakers.
It dies quickly.
You must change it often.
Yes, it does not break easily, but if that's why you want to use it, that's the wrong reason.
Most of you would be better off with syngut, multi, or natgut. Or even Kevlar!
Just my 2 cents

If you aren't able to break a syn gut within 5 hours of hitting, you don't hit hard enough to warrant the use of poly. This means most people should not be using poly, but they do anyways. This is my opinion anyway.

I completely agree with these statements. Unfortunately, many people just don't understand.

 

[bigheadzjr]

No. There isn't a single player that NEEDS poly. There will always be durability issues with higher level players. The advent of poly strings has changed the game though. I use poly because I like the crisp feel and I like the fact it doesn't break after 2 or 3 hours. I don't need it though.

same here..poly offer a crisp feeling to what my game is.

 

[olliess]

And what about the improved spin potential which seems to be backed up by at least a few objective tests (for example, some posted at TWU)?

Are you guys saying that a player who fails to break syn gut in 5 hours shouldn't try to take advantage of some additional spin?

 

[BigT]

The improved spin is a result of swing speed. If one's swing speed is fast enough, he would probably break 16g synthetic gut in 2-4 hours.

 

[kiteboard]

Syn gut never lasted me more than 1/2hr-1hr.

 

[fortun8son]

The experienced posters who use poly know the pros and cons of that type of string.
There are many who read and never post.
There are also many who use it for the wrong reasons.
Beginners look up to the better players and want to use what the big kids use, or they go into a store and cluelessly ask for a 'durable string so the salesman pushes them to Luxilon instead of syngut or multi for their overpriced 115in granny stick.
They then proceed to leave it in for six months or more.

 

[UCSF2012]

The beauty of it all is that people can use whichever strings or rackets they want. They don't need a good reason. They don't even need a reason at all.

And I don't see why some people have this dying urge to give advice when no advice is called for. It's a disease. The self-proclaimed string consultant.

 

[Agent Orynge]

The beauty of it all is that people can use whichever strings or rackets they want. They don't need a good reason. They don't even need a reason at all.

And I don't see why some people have this dying urge to give advice when no advice is called for. It's a disease. The self-proclaimed string consultant.

You're right. I mean, this is a forum, so everyone who doesn't have a question to ask should just leave... now.

The beauty of it all is that people can use whichever strings they want, pay good money for products that provide them no benefit, and put their arm/elbow/shoulder at risk in the process. They don't need a good reason to mess themselves up. They don't need a reason at all...

 

[UCSF2012]

The experienced posters who use poly know the pros and cons of that type of string.
There are many who read and never post.
There are also many who use it for the wrong reasons.
Beginners look up to the better players and want to use what the big kids use, or they go into a store and cluelessly ask for a 'durable string so the salesman pushes them to Luxilon instead of syngut or multi for their overpriced 115in granny stick.
They then proceed to leave it in for six months or more.

String choice matters little to beginners, since they don't hit all that hard. If anything at all, I'm tempted to recommend VS natural gut to beginners, since it would almost literally last forever for beginners. It's the only material that would play well after a month of sitting in a racket. All synthetic strings lose playability after 1 month, even without use.

 

[Ramon]

String choice matters little to beginners, since they don't hit all that hard. If anything at all, I'm tempted to recommend VS natural gut to beginners, since it would almost literally last forever for beginners. It's the only material that would play well after a month of sitting in a racket. All synthetic strings lose playability after 1 month, even without use.

I know synthetics go dead eventually, but I think they will all last longer than a month without use. As for natural gut, it only lasts forever if the weather cooperates. In some parts of the country, that won't happen.

 

[fortun8son]

String choice matters little to beginners, since they don't hit all that hard. If anything at all, I'm tempted to recommend VS natural gut to beginners, since it would almost literally last forever for beginners. It's the only material that would play well after a month of sitting in a racket. All synthetic strings lose playability after 1 month, even without use.

Indeed. I saw a post of yours where you told the guy to drop poly because of his arm pain.
Case in point: I have a client, an oldguy (not a beginner by any means) who only hits against the wall for excercise, never plays.
His son bought him a Pure Drive and gave him RPM because it's "the best".
His arm is now so bad that even MCS didn't help him. He hasn't worked out in months!

 

[COPEY]

String choice matters little to beginners, since they don't hit all that hard. If anything at all, I'm tempted to recommend VS natural gut to beginners, since it would almost literally last forever for beginners. It's the only material that would play well after a month of sitting in a racket. All synthetic strings lose playability after 1 month, even without use.

Beginners tend to shank a lot of balls, hence a fragile string like gut would often time suffer a premature death. Beginners would also be prone to more damage from polys since they're limited in the manner in which they strike the ball (90% blunt impact). Combine off-center hits with a full bed of poly or even a stiff poly/syn hybrid strung too tight and you have a fairly potent recipe for injuries.

So string choice does matter for beginners, but not in terms of performance. Beginners aren't too concerned with a 25% drop in string playability nor should they be. Footwork, stroke mechanics, proper court positioning and the like take precedence. In fact, they probably couldn't tell the difference between a fresh sting job & one that's been played with for 6 months.

Getting back to gut, there's nothing wrong with a beginner using gut. If his/her parents can afford it, more power to them, but a decent synthetic is all that's needed.

 

[fortun8son]

I guess there are many new or low level players that use poly because it is the "in thing", though I don't know why you'd say even kevlar would be better.

The only reason I mentioned kevlar is for the cheapos who want a string that never breaks but plays consistently until it does.
It has the same potential for injury as poly, but it lets you know right away.
Well, I guess Polyon does, too.

 

[mikeler]

The only reason I mentioned kevlar is for the cheapos who want a string that never breaks but plays consistently until it does.
It has the same potential for injury as poly, but it lets you know right away.
Well, I guess Polyon does, too.

When I used Prince Pro Blend (Kevlar mains, PSGD crosses), I noticed a drop off in performance after the 15 hour mark. Could be due to the crosses but I always had to cut it out around then because I would start to hit everything long.

 

[nickarnold2000]

Do I need to use poly? I used to use syn gut up until 4-5 years ago when I started noticing a couple of players who were getting more extreme angles and balls that would appear to be going out but at the last second would spin down and still stay in. Since I'd played these two guys the season before I was intrigued as to how they were able to add the extra topspin. So, they told me about Luxilion and I got some.
IMO, not using poly leaves me at a disadvantage because I can't be as offensive and attack with my shots. I've tried both multi's(X-1) and syn gut recently and can't do 100% of what poly mains can. They also break more quickly.
Going full gut is too expensive.

 

[Xizel]

It doesn't break and MOVE ALL OVER THE PLACE.

 

[Deleted member 120290]

Do I need to use poly? I used to use syn gut up until 4-5 years ago when I started noticing a couple of players who were getting more extreme angles and balls that would appear to be going out but at the last second would spin down and still stay in. Since I'd played these two guys the season before I was intrigued as to how they were able to add the extra topspin. So, they told me about Luxilion and I got some.
IMO, not using poly leaves me at a disadvantage because I can't be as offensive and attack with my shots. I've tried both multi's(X-1) and syn gut recently and can't do 100% of what poly mains can. They also break more quickly.
Going full gut is too expensive.

At 5.0 level, not using poly is like racing against BMW M's and Audi S's with a Lexus sedan. You are putting yourself at a big disadvantage unless you are Fabrice Santoro.

 

[corners]

At 5.0 level, not using poly is like racing against BMW M's and Audi S's with a Lexus sedan. You are putting yourself at a big disadvantage unless you are Fabrice Santoro.

Or Serena Williams, or Venus Williams, or Justine Henin.

 

[NLBwell]

Beginners really shoudn't use poly because of the risk of arm injury without any benefit in performance. As the player becomes better they should decide on their own with knowledge of the downside of polys. Unfortunatly, many people are sold poly strings without this knowledge.

At the moment, I'm back playing with Kevlar. It is easier on my arm than poly and is predictable. No question that my ultimate performance is with Luxilon, but I have to re-string constantly to keep that level of performance.

As others have said, with my smaller headed rackets, poly seems to offer little benefit. However, my Prestige Pro (larger head - open string pattern) would be a rocket launcher for me with a multi. The poly or kevlar keeps the ball from trampolining.

 

[Larrysümmers]

i probably dont see all the added benefits, i dont really break syth. guts too often. but i just like that plasticy feeling and it feels like i get more touch with poly.
i restring often and keep it low tension and it never feels harsh on the arm. thats my reason

 

[nickarnold2000]

Or Serena Williams, or Venus Williams, or Justine Henin.

Aren't they all using full gut?

 

[j00dypoo]

I can break syn guts in just 1 set of competitive tennis. I use polys in the mains b/c of this.

I also like the attributes of poly string. It's a win-win.

 

[UCSF2012]

Indeed. I saw a post of yours where you told the guy to drop poly because of his arm pain.
Case in point: I have a client, an oldguy (not a beginner by any means) who only hits against the wall for excercise, never plays.
His son bought him a Pure Drive and gave him RPM because it's "the best".
His arm is now so bad that even MCS didn't help him. He hasn't worked out in months!

You drop the poly when you have arm pain. If you don't have pain, you're welcome to use poly all you want. Beginners barely hit hard enough to generate tennis elbow or wrist pain. It's the "intermediate" and "advanced" players that try to rip the ball that are more likely to injure themselves.

Regarding your example, sucks that he didn't seek proper care. I saw a physical therapist here at UCSF and my tennis elbow disappeared after 3 days. Old people don't like to seek help. Men don't like to seek help. He was both old and a man.

 

[mikeler]

You drop the poly when you have arm pain. If you don't have pain, you're welcome to use poly all you want. Beginners barely hit hard enough to generate tennis elbow or wrist pain. It's the "intermediate" and "advanced" players that try to rip the ball that are more likely to injure themselves.

Regarding your example, sucks that he didn't seek proper care. I saw a physical therapist here at UCSF and my tennis elbow disappeared after 3 days. Old people don't like to seek help. Men don't like to seek help. He was both old and a man.

What kind of PT did you do?

 

[fgs]

yes, i do need poly. i have a heavily topspin centered game and poly just makes it possible to play for anywhere between 6-10 hitting hours, depending on practice or matchplay. syn guts or multis strung higher just break in less than 2 hours - sometimes, in an intensive match i needed to switch sticks.
besides polys do give me better access to spin due to the stiffer stringbed and more directional control at lower tensions.

but i have always stated that poly is not for everyone, and some people, even good players, are best advised to stay away from it. if they do it or not is another story, but they should at least be informed about that. the trouble in my opinion is that most of the stringers don't know the game of the people they string for, so basically it is very difficult to give proper advice to these players, even if you are honestly set out to be doing so.

 

[pvaudio]

String choice matters little to beginners, since they don't hit all that hard. If anything at all, I'm tempted to recommend VS natural gut to beginners, since it would almost literally last forever for beginners. It's the only material that would play well after a month of sitting in a racket. All synthetic strings lose playability after 1 month, even without use.

Please, PLEASE not this again.

 

[pvaudio]

And no, no one needs poly. It's simply more useful for the way players like to hit. You don't need it, however. As someone who will test a full poly bed one day and then a full multi bed the next, the difference is startling, yes. What that difference is, however, is an increase or decrease in different areas of performance. Durability may drop, but you get so much more feel with synthetics and natural than you do with poly. You also get a great increase in power. If your stroke permits it, you also don't have to sacrifice spin to play a tough game.

 

[pvaudio]

At 5.0 level, not using poly is like racing against BMW M's and Audi S's with a Lexus sedan. You are putting yourself at a big disadvantage unless you are Fabrice Santoro.

Not a fair comparison anyway, as the IS-F would blow an S4 off the track. The M3, however, is still untouchable in the sport sedan class.

 

[fgs]

pvaudio,

while i basically agree that a good player can practically play with everything, there are some advantages to polys in competitional play which at that level do make a difference.

in order to play a fully ripped short angled topspin crosscourt with natty gut in todays frames (even the softest ones are way stiffer than the wooden or fiberglass ones of a long time ago!), you need to string it at a very very high tension. i remember one of the drills we had to execute some 30 years ago (when i was 17!), which should have been finished off with an angled crosscourt forehand on the run (a passing shot attempt as the opponent was basically attacking). with the wooden frames of those days, the maxply forts, slazenger challenge no.1s or even the stiffer donnay borg pro's (wilson was not available in europe at that time!), you had to go to 30-32kg on the mains with vs-gut in order to rip it off "björn borg style".

those are tensions respectively stringbed-stiffnesses you would not really want to replicate today with natty gut, because you most probably would end up somewhere close to 45kg. with poly you can keep it much more civil - if you have that kind of game!

 

[Up&comer]

Please, PLEASE not this again.

What? You should always give the Ferraris and lamborghinis to the 16 year olds.

 

[infonoob]

I love how right above this thread is a thread called "Nylon is crap, Poly is going to dominate"

 

[Deleted member 120290]

Not a fair comparison anyway, as the IS-F would blow an S4 off the track. The M3, however, is still untouchable in the sport sedan class.

I completely forgot about the IS-F. I was thinking about all the ES's and LS's in my neighborhood. Now THOSE have NO chances against an S4.

 

[mikeler]

This thread will be all moot when L-Tec takes over the world.

 

[jswinf]

(when i was 17!)

it was a very good year
it was a very good year for Maxply Forts with board-tight gut
we'd rip it cross-court
our angles were mean
when I was seventeen.

(apologies to the ghost of Sinatra)

 

[Up&comer]

This thread will be all moot when L-Tec takes over the world.

As Jaycee is our leader.

 

[pvaudio]

This thread will be all moot when L-Tec takes over the world.

It's revolutionary. In all aspects including none.

 

[pvaudio]

pvaudio,

while i basically agree that a good player can practically play with everything, there are some advantages to polys in competitional play which at that level do make a difference.

in order to play a fully ripped short angled topspin crosscourt with natty gut in todays frames (even the softest ones are way stiffer than the wooden or fiberglass ones of a long time ago!), you need to string it at a very very high tension. i remember one of the drills we had to execute some 30 years ago (when i was 17!), which should have been finished off with an angled crosscourt forehand on the run (a passing shot attempt as the opponent was basically attacking). with the wooden frames of those days, the maxply forts, slazenger challenge no.1s or even the stiffer donnay borg pro's (wilson was not available in europe at that time!), you had to go to 30-32kg on the mains with vs-gut in order to rip it off "björn borg style".

those are tensions respectively stringbed-stiffnesses you would not really want to replicate today with natty gut, because you most probably would end up somewhere close to 45kg. with poly you can keep it much more civil - if you have that kind of game!

No, I was agreeing with you completely. I just said that it's not necessary for all players today. Rather, it's more likely that you don't need it at all. But if you are a player who prefers it, nothing else will do. I happen to be one of those players, having played full multi for the longest time

 

[mikeler]

As Jaycee is our leader.

It's revolutionary. In all aspects including none.

You both made me laugh.

 

[fgs]

this poly thing is basically mostly marketing hype for really big bucks! it is much more difficult and therefore expensive to produce a multilayered multi than a solid core poly, even if you finally do get some other surface treatment on it. nevertheless, polys are sold for quite big bucks, sometimes even more expensive than pretty good multis.

there surely are players who benefit from the characteristics of this material, and i dare say i am one of them, even if i play mostly hybrids, but i also dare say that i guess that maybe 80% if not more of todays poly users are on the wrong choice of material, for whatever reason - either they decided to have the same thing as the big boys, or someone more or less knowledgeable has sold them the stuff that wins wimbledons nowadays, or .....

 

[pvaudio]

As someone who often hits with the people I string for, let me just say that the vast majority have no business with polyester anything in their racquets. When a 50+ year old woman wants full poly because someone's son suggested it (keep in mind he's a. 16 and b. a decent junior) because he uses it, it just makes you think. If I had a dollar (hey, economy sucks ) for every time someone did that, I'd never have to worry about money.