Do you remember all the talk about how Djokovic is the one who will struggle the most against Next Gen?

Hitman

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Back in 2018 and 2019 there was a common theme that the younger players are going to have most of their success against Djokovic, that his game is the most easier one for them to get a hold of. khachanov had got him in Paris Indoors final, Zverev had got him at WTF final, Medvedev had got him at MC and especially at Cincinnati, Thiem had got him a few times at RG.

Right now, Djokovic is by far and away their biggest problem. Outside of what Thiem did at RG, and of course Thiem really isn't truly Next Gen, the younger players have had more success against as a whole against Federer/Nadal than with Novak. Djokovic denied Thiem at AO 2020 final when he was in form and was up 2-1, he denied Zverev and Medvedev at AO 2021 with Medvedev being on an incredible run at that point, he then denied Tsitsipas at RG coming back from 0-2 down.

Novak to me has started to put his focus and ambitions steadily on these guys, whereas in the past, it was about Federer, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, he is looking at these players as a way to keep himself driven, which I think is what he is doing for greater longevity at that top. Giving them the importance of being the ones who plan on taking over, he is keeping one eye on Fedal and one eye on the Next Gen.
 
It's really only Federer who at this point has a horrendous record against the group of Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Thiem, Zverev. To be expected given his age.

Nadal took some recent L's against them but at tournaments he generally loses in anyway ie AO, WTF. He still has a better record against the four than Djokovic.
 
Ridiculous wishes.

I made this account back in 2016 made a few posts and left. The common theme here back then was Djokovic being a god I made a simple prediction back then that has become very true

“ I can see him being dominate until 32 or 33. This generation won't hit it's prime until 27-29 which will allow the current top players to dominate the majors and slams”

times change but Djokovic is made from a different cloth , if the new generation was to use his cloth they would get skin rash.

edit. Lol what a gem
“Could be the fact that even fans of the sport just call it a weak or un-interesting era. It's hard to get excited for a sport when most of the boards and fans just scream these things and refuse to allow new generational players to be the face of the sport. Federer almost being 35 and still the image of the game speaks volumes about how unwilling tennis is to change. It's fan's are the biggest problem.”

at least you guys don’t change
 
Hitman said:
Back in 2018 and 2019 there was a common theme that the younger players are going to have most of their success against Djokovic, that his game is the most easier one for them to get a hold of. khachanov had got him in Paris Indoors final, Zverev had got him at WTF final, Medvedev had got him at MC and especially at Cincinnati, Thiem had got him a few times at RG.

Right now, Djokovic is by far and away their biggest problem. Outside of what Thiem did at RG, and of course Thiem really isn't truly Next Gen, the younger players have had more success against as a whole against Federer/Nadal than with Novak. Djokovic denied Thiem at AO 2020 final when he was in form and was up 2-1, he denied Zverev and Medvedev at AO 2021 with Medvedev being on an incredible run at that point, he then denied Tsitsipas at RG coming back from 0-2 down.

Novak to me has started to put his focus and ambitions steadily on these guys, whereas in the past, it was about Federer, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, he is looking at these players as a way to keep himself driven, which I think is what he is doing for greater longevity at that top. Giving them the importance of being the ones who plan on taking over, he is keeping one eye on Fedal and one eye on the Next Gen.
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Makes sense, Novak is a pretty methodical guy. He even had that stats expert in his team at one point.
 
Nadal_Django said:
I think it was mostly @MichaelNadal getting excited after the ATP Finals were done those years, than anything else tbh... ;)
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Those 3 third set TB's he lost to Thiem were delicious ;)

chicken-bryan.jpg
 
Yes, but long term beating NextEn IMO is not his goal. He has to beat them more to win a Slam because Fedal is less of a factor.

We will find out if he has any ambition beyond having just one more Slam than the better of Fedal has the day he is on tour while Fedal are both retired.
 
MichaelNadal said:
I've pretty much accepted Djokovic will continue to suck all the life out of tennis until there's literally nothing else to talk about. He cares and wants it way too much for anything to stop him.
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Incorrect. You just fail to see what makes him superior to natural born talents you can see. That is why you have nothing to talk about when he prevails against what you naively believed is human ability supreme.
 
It’s one of the things that makes Djokovic so great. He’s the master at bouncing back from defeats against many players. He always finds a way to work out how to play them and get the better of them in the next meetings.

It speaks volumes that the only active player who has 2 win lead over Novak is nick krygios. The only other is retired Marat Safin. From all these 16 years on tour for Novak just 2 players in whole sport have that.

I think only 10 or 11 players lead him overall and all of them bar the 2 guys I mentioned only lead by 1 win.

It shows Novak’s remarkable dominance against the field and his mental toughness and tactics really help him to turn any rivalry around.
 
mwym said:
Incorrect. You just fail to see what makes him superior to natural born talents you can see. That is why you have nothing to talk about when he prevails against what you naively believed is human ability supreme.
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@MichaelNadal may want to punch Novak's lights out, but the one thing he has always done is respect him and his ablities, in fact that is why he feels the way he does about him. LOL
 
Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
It’s one of the things that makes Djokovic so great. He’s the master at bouncing back from defeats against many players. He always finds a way to work out how to play them and get the better of them in the next meetings.

It speaks volumes that the only active player who has 2 win lead over Novak is nick krygios. The only other is retired Marat Safin. From all these 16 years on tour for Novak just 2 players in whole sport have that.

I think only 10 or 11 players lead him overall and all of them bar the 2 guys I mentioned only lead by 1 win.

It shows Novak’s remarkable dominance against the field and his mental toughness and tactics really help him to turn any rivalry around.
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Yes, it's all really boring :( he gets everything he wants. If you made a movie about him, the summary of it would be "guy says what he's going to do before he does it, and gets absolutely everything in life without any problems". You'd leave the theater going "where was the conflict? why did I waste my money on this?":p

Facepalm_emoji_ios_preview_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqJWRrfyw8WMz-YpXVc17VZ-j8Wk-G3UrWgN6GQOIGjSM.jpg
 
MichaelNadal said:
Yes, it's all really boring :( he gets everything he wants. If you made a movie about him, the summary of it would be "guy says what he's going to do before he does it, and gets absolutely everything in life without any problems". You'd leave the theater going "where was the conflict? why did I waste my money on this?":p

Facepalm_emoji_ios_preview_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqJWRrfyw8WMz-YpXVc17VZ-j8Wk-G3UrWgN6GQOIGjSM.jpg
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;):p man, here we go again. He's had his share of tough losses, even heartbreaking ones. He's shaken that off to keep winning, doesn't mean there have been NO results which went the other way, no adversity. 2012 USO final, 2013 USO final, 2014 USO semi come to mind. As does 2015 RG final or 2013 RG Semi or 2014 AO quarters. The latter two especially, he was so close, so agonisingly close in the last set. He certainly dealt with the loss, dusted himself off, and came back further determined to win. :-)

Boring, he certainly isn't. Determined, willpower of steel, yes. I find that very admirable and fascinating, thank you. :)
 
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Yes I remember that clearly. But all time has proven is that Djokovic is the GOTE so I guess he was bound to solve these young punks, even if he has to come back from 2-0 down.

....
Jai said:
;):p man, here we go again. He's had his share of tough losses, even heartbreaking ones. He's shaken that off to keep winning, doesn't mean there have been NO results which unexpectedly went the other way, no adversity. 2012 USO final, 2013 USO final, 2014 USO semi come to mind. As does 2015 RG final or 2013 RG Semi.

Boring, he certainly isn't. Determined, willpower of steel, yes. I find that very admirable and fascinating, thank you. :)
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The irony is that Nadal has the best winning percentage in Slam finals (and I believe Slam semis too, though not sure). Nadal gets to be the hero off clay and the EZ money on it.

Reality is that all the active legends have had dramatic and storied careers.
 
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Hitman said:
...
Novak to me has started to put his focus and ambitions steadily on these guys, whereas in the past, it was about Federer, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, he is looking at these players as a way to keep himself driven, which I think is what he is doing for greater longevity at that top. Giving them the importance of being the ones who plan on taking over, he is keeping one eye on Fedal and one eye on the Next Gen.
Click to expand...

It will be fascinating to see how long Djokovic can hold off the young bucks for. As his old rivals fade, the landscape is on the verge of changing dramatically, but at the end of it all Djokovic might still be atop the throne, and for several more years.

Would it really be that surprising...
 
-NN- said:
Yes I remember that clearly. But all time has proven is that Djokovic is the GOTE so I guess he was bound to solve these young punks, even if he has to come back from 2-0 down.

....


The irony is that Nadal has the best winning percentage in Slam finals (and I believe Slam semis too, though not sure). Nadal gets to be the hero off clay and the EZ money on it.

Reality is that all the active legends have had dramatic and storied careers.
Click to expand...
Yup, Novak certainly has kept up his play and drive and sheer hunger to win, at a very keen level. Kudos to him.
 
Hitman said:
Back in 2018 and 2019 there was a common theme that the younger players are going to have most of their success against Djokovic, that his game is the most easier one for them to get a hold of. khachanov had got him in Paris Indoors final, Zverev had got him at WTF final, Medvedev had got him at MC and especially at Cincinnati, Thiem had got him a few times at RG.

Right now, Djokovic is by far and away their biggest problem. Outside of what Thiem did at RG, and of course Thiem really isn't truly Next Gen, the younger players have had more success against as a whole against Federer/Nadal than with Novak. Djokovic denied Thiem at AO 2020 final when he was in form and was up 2-1, he denied Zverev and Medvedev at AO 2021 with Medvedev being on an incredible run at that point, he then denied Tsitsipas at RG coming back from 0-2 down.

Novak to me has started to put his focus and ambitions steadily on these guys, whereas in the past, it was about Federer, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, he is looking at these players as a way to keep himself driven, which I think is what he is doing for greater longevity at that top. Giving them the importance of being the ones who plan on taking over, he is keeping one eye on Fedal and one eye on the Next Gen.
Click to expand...
He's dealing with that dual pressure very well so far- as you rightly said, an eye on his peer rivals, and an eye on the next gen. Hope he continues to do so while he captures several slams more. :-)
 
To be fair, Djokovic is their ONLY problem, also because Nadal is out and Federer, Murray and Wawrinka are Finnish.
 
weakera said:
It's really only Federer who at this point has a horrendous record against the group of Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Thiem, Zverev. To be expected given his age.

Nadal took some recent L's against them but at tournaments he generally loses in anyway ie AO, WTF. He still has a better record against the four than Djokovic.
Click to expand...
Medvedev has never beaten Fed
Thiem and zverev are slightly ahead in h2h.
 
weakera said:
It's really only Federer who at this point has a horrendous record against the group of Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Thiem, Zverev. To be expected given his age.

Nadal took some recent L's against them but at tournaments he generally loses in anyway ie AO, WTF. He still has a better record against the four than Djokovic.
Click to expand...
Not yet
 
MichaelNadal said:
I've pretty much accepted Djokovic will continue to suck all the life out of tennis until there's literally nothing else to talk about. He cares and wants it way too much for anything to stop him.
Click to expand...

I, for one, welcome our new Serbian overlords 8-B:giggle:

 
Recently he just struggles against Sonego and Evans instead.
 
Actually I said in 2015 maybe that Djokovic is going to decline physically (same for Fedal) and therefore win less slams. With a few exceptions in 2017 and 2020 he still won many slams and kept being consistent even at his age and so did Nadal to a lower level.
 
Djokovic was still not back to his best in 2018 after his struggles and As said in this thread and in others he is the best problem solver I’ve ever seen he will eventually find out players weaknesses etc so he does have a harder time than Fedal when meeting opponents for the 1st time but he is better than both at solving and finding out other players
 
Hitman said:
Back in 2018 and 2019 there was a common theme that the younger players are going to have most of their success against Djokovic, that his game is the most easier one for them to get a hold of. khachanov had got him in Paris Indoors final, Zverev had got him at WTF final, Medvedev had got him at MC and especially at Cincinnati, Thiem had got him a few times at RG.

Right now, Djokovic is by far and away their biggest problem. Outside of what Thiem did at RG, and of course Thiem really isn't truly Next Gen, the younger players have had more success against as a whole against Federer/Nadal than with Novak. Djokovic denied Thiem at AO 2020 final when he was in form and was up 2-1, he denied Zverev and Medvedev at AO 2021 with Medvedev being on an incredible run at that point, he then denied Tsitsipas at RG coming back from 0-2 down.

Novak to me has started to put his focus and ambitions steadily on these guys, whereas in the past, it was about Federer, Nadal and Murray to a lesser extent, he is looking at these players as a way to keep himself driven, which I think is what he is doing for greater longevity at that top. Giving them the importance of being the ones who plan on taking over, he is keeping one eye on Fedal and one eye on the Next Gen.
Click to expand...
Novak is just amazing. What can I say. He can adapt and beat everyone in time. He masters his opponents and changes himself.

Incredible. To me, honestly speaking, even without all the stats he is the best player of this era. And just a better tennis player than both Nadal and Federer.
Period.
 
1 wawrinka whipped his arse 3 times in a row in last few slams...& No match went to 5 sets..
So djoker is not that great
Competition os weak
 
As Fed stated Novak is the "ultimate challenge".
They never would have reached the numbers without each other pushing each other.
Djokovic is starting to focus on other "ultimate challenges" to keep himself motivated.
 
upchuck said:
Stats do suggest the more Djokovic plays a player, the more control he exerts over the matchup.
Click to expand...


Is it ?
This is the performance in Slams

DateTournamentSurfaceRoundMatchScoreStats
26-08-2019US OpenHardR16Stan Wawrinka (23) d. Novak Djokovic (1)6-4 7-5 2-1 RET Stats
29-08-2016US OpenHardFStan Wawrinka (3) d. Novak Djokovic (1)6-7(1) 6-4 7-5 6-3 Stats
24-05-2015Roland GarrosClayFStan Wawrinka (8) d. Novak Djokovic (1)4-6 6-4 6-3 6-4 Stats
19-01-2015Australian OpenHardSFNovak Djokovic (1) d. Stan Wawrinka (4)7-6(1) 3-6 6-4 4-6 6-0 Stats
13-01-2014Australian OpenHardQFStan Wawrinka (8) d. Novak Djokovic (2)2-6 6-4 6-2 3-6 9-7 Stats
26-08-2013US OpenHardSFNovak Djokovic (1) d. Stan Wawrinka (9)2-6 7-6(4) 3-6 6-3 6-4 Stats
14-01-2013Australian OpenHardR16Novak Djokovic (1) d. Stan Wawrinka (15)1-6 7-5 6-4 6-7(5) 12-10 Stats
27-08-2012US OpenHardR16Novak Djokovic (2) d. Stan Wawrinka (18)6-4 6-1 3-1 RET Stats
 
TennisFan3 said:
Novak is just amazing. What can I say. He can adapt and beat everyone in time. He masters his opponents and changes himself.

Incredible. To me, honestly speaking, even without all the stats he is the best player of this era. And just a better tennis player than both Nadal and Federer.
Period.
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No unfortunately that is not the case. If he gets 21 Majors then perhaps but at the moment the rewards go to the guys who have earnt the trophies
 
Tinab said:
No unfortunately that is not the case. If he gets 21 Majors then perhaps but at the moment the rewards go to the guys who have earnt the trophies
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Come on man. There is no "IF" here.
He will get to 21 either in UsOpen 2021 or AO 2022.
Are you kidding me. He will CERTAINLY win several more slams. Most likely over 25. What are you really waiting for?

20 is the last bastion for Fed fans. Just wait till next Sunday. It will be 20 slams for Novak. And then 21 a few months after.
 
I feel like purely in terms of tennis style, Nadal is the one they struggle the most with but they got better and adapt well to his game. What changed that and made Djokovic become their biggest problem recently is his extreme sheer will and mental strength, he just refuses to go down and doesn’t implode when he’s in trouble.
 
Sunny014 said:
Is it ?
This is the performance in Slams

DateTournamentSurfaceRoundMatchScoreStats
26-08-2019US OpenHardR16Stan Wawrinka (23) d. Novak Djokovic (1)6-4 7-5 2-1 RET Stats
29-08-2016US OpenHardFStan Wawrinka (3) d. Novak Djokovic (1)6-7(1) 6-4 7-5 6-3 Stats
24-05-2015Roland GarrosClayFStan Wawrinka (8) d. Novak Djokovic (1)4-6 6-4 6-3 6-4 Stats
19-01-2015Australian OpenHardSFNovak Djokovic (1) d. Stan Wawrinka (4)7-6(1) 3-6 6-4 4-6 6-0 Stats
13-01-2014Australian OpenHardQFStan Wawrinka (8) d. Novak Djokovic (2)2-6 6-4 6-2 3-6 9-7 Stats
26-08-2013US OpenHardSFNovak Djokovic (1) d. Stan Wawrinka (9)2-6 7-6(4) 3-6 6-3 6-4 Stats
14-01-2013Australian OpenHardR16Novak Djokovic (1) d. Stan Wawrinka (15)1-6 7-5 6-4 6-7(5) 12-10 Stats
27-08-2012US OpenHardR16Novak Djokovic (2) d. Stan Wawrinka (18)6-4 6-1 3-1 RET Stats
Click to expand...
He retired from the last match and was injured/slumping in the 2016 match. Also, to disprove my point you will need a sample size bigger than just one player.

As far as next generation is concerned, he's won his last five matches against both Zverev and Tsitsipas after they got off to a good start against him H2H.
 
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