Do You Struggle When Playing Pushers?

[thomas daniels]

Yesterday I watched my friends student lose a match in Nara.

And man was it painful for both her and him to watch.

Because she was making the same mistakes that most players make when dealing with these pushers.

So, let me share with you, what I shared with her after the match.

Don't ever play into their game plan.

We all know that the only thing that a pusher wants to do is get into a long (get it back across the net type of match with their opponents).

You must never allow this to happen.

"Get in the training before the match and then trust in your training and in your shots during the match."

That means, you must get in the reps and master your shots.

Develop a great approach shot, because it will tie into the next tip.

Come into the net more.

If you develop a great approach shot, you can take control on all short balls and finish off the point at the net.

My friend's student didn't come in enough yesterday and made many unforced errors because of it.

And don't worry either.

"You don't have to become a great volleyer, you just have to develop a solid one and you can do that in practice."

This is all about taking control over the match and setting the tempo.

Write this down.

You main goal against pushers, is to do that from start to finish.

Also.

One more thing.

Bring them into the net.

Most players try to go for too much, too soon when playing pushers!!!

Instead of doing that.

Be patient and work the point with deep heavy groundstrokes, to generate a short reply.

Then.

Bring them in with a drop shot and blast a few right at them!!!

This is really going to mentally break them down at some point during the match and that's what you want to do.

I used to love playing pusher, because I would bring them in, to pass them or aim right at them with a hard shot and then laugh after the point and watch them go CRAZY!!

Remember that.

Most pusher don't have a net game, so by bringing them in more, you will be able to control the tempo and the outcome of the match.

"The best way to approach playing them is to never get frustrated with yourself and use these tips and mentally break them down."

When that happens.

Finish them off as fast as you can, because their main goal is to keep you out there for as long as they can!!

 

[FlamingCheeto]

If a pusher beats you then it is YOU who are the pusher, just the weaker of the 2 lol

 

[LeeD]

Sure, but you can still lose to a pusher while hitting your best shots. Then you're not the 2nd best pusher on that court.

 

[ubercat]

Damn I would love to play some pushers they don't seem to exist in Melbourne.

 

[socallefty]

Good advice that is time-tested, but the problem is that the low level players who struggle with pushers usually lack a net game themselves (especially overheads) and lack the finesse shots needed like short angles, dropshots etc. to draw the pusher to the net. They also lack the consistency needed to hit pushers off the court as they cannot sustain even two shots at the weaponized pace for their level needed to draw an error from the pusher.

Players who can actually execute all these shots don‘t complain much about pushers or lose much to them. If you play the net well and have weapons from the service line and the back of the court, then playing someone with no weapons is a rare treat to be enjoyed.

 

[vex]

If you’re losing to a pusher it’s because you never learned to volley/overhead. OR you are just a weaker pusher.

 

[user92626]

D@mnit ! ..... I always lose to pushers. They always manage to outlast me by one good shot.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I play mostly doubles. Pushers are usually fodder in doubles play. Never lose to them. Anyone that plays the baseline with a soft game just gets eaten alive in good doubles. Usually they have to resort to lobbing and if you are competent at overheads, that is a recipe for disaster.

Singles is a different game since it's now a game of fitness rather than racket skills and positioning. Now the pushers stand a chance by keeping balls in play. The answer to beating them still requires energy and they can sometimes just outlast your fitness level.

But if you are fit and can volley/overhead, you can beat most pushers in your level category.

 

[txchou]

Actually, I disagree with the OP. I don't think those are universal rules. I've never had problems with pushers.
1. Don't ever play into their game: I've been able to beat many pushers by playing their game just slightly better. If you're a typical rec player, then most pushers want you to play your game (which normally means hitting a few shots then an unforced error or going for too much).
2. Come into the net more: some pushers love when you come to the net because they have great lobs or passing shots and not everyone will have a good enough approach shot to stop the pusher from lobbing or passing them at the net
3. Bring them into the net: again, I've played pushers who are pretty comfortable at the net and are happy to come in because most recreational players overplay passing shots.

IMO the best approach is to play tactically solid, high percentage points and have a strategy which targets the pusher's technical weaknesses (most recreational level pushers have some technical deficiency). However, you have to have the skillset to execute and the sad truth might be that you cannot beat that particular pusher with your current game.

 

[ubercat]

Depends how crafty the pusher. And if they have other weapons. 3 horror guys in my comp. The moon ball specialist who also has a hard flat backhand DTL and good netgame. He just wins most of his points in moonball rallies because he's very patient. The second guy has a backhand and slice backhand that look like they are all wrist but he can hit them flat or short slice or long slice or drop shot you start adjusting the position for one of them and the other comes.
.
The third guy uses short gentle side spin shots or on both wings to take you off the court and then attacks with a fast flat forehand DTM or into open court.

I don't think pusher equals lack of talent. These guys have obviously spent their entire tennis careers learning how to sand trap people.

And don't get me started about their serves...Freddy always comes back.

 

[thomas daniels]

Sure, but you can still lose to a pusher while hitting your best shots. Then you're not the 2nd best pusher on that court.

Exactly and great point there...

 

[davced1]

I would like to challenge the presumption playing pushers. I’ve come to realize there are few real pushers and far more ballbashers. When the ballbasher beat themselves by making to many unforced errors it’s a common reaction to say they lost to a pusher but they lost to a better tennis player. Stop ballbashing and start playing tennis.

 

[socallefty]

I am guessing that more than 80% of rec level singles matches are won by the player who makes less errors. To win a match while making more errors, you need enough weapons to hit many winners and that is not easy against a player at the same level unless you are an advanced 4.5+ player. So, I wonder how many players are actually pushers or they are classified as such by the loser of a match just because they tried to outhit them and didn’t have the consistency or power to pull it off.

 

[Fintft]

I am guessing that more than 80% of rec level singles matches are won by the player who makes less errors. To win a match while making more errors, you need enough weapons to hit many winners and that is not easy against a player at the same level unless you are an advanced 4.5+ player. So, I wonder how many players are actually pushers or they are classified as such by the loser of a match just because they tried to outhit them and didn’t have the consistency or power to pull it off.

Yes, but I once lost a set against a guy who only had 1 winner; how was he not a pusher?
It also happened in AO this week in a women's match.

 

[socallefty]

Yes, but I once lost a set against a guy who only had 1 winner; how was he not a pusher?
It also happened in AO this week in a women's match.

That means you made a minimum of 23 errors in the set as he needs to win 24 points to win a set - he probably won some points on games you won and there were some deuces too and most likely you made more than 30 errors in the set. The question is how many of those 30 errors were forced errors and how many were unforced errors. If he forced many errors, maybe, he Is not a pusher but just someone who doesn’t have enough power to hit winners. If he just waited for your unforced errros, then he is a pusher.

 

[LuckyR]

In order to win matches, you need to win points. There are two ways of winning points: other guy's error or your winner. Most points are lost, not won. Thus having a high consistancy game is an excellent way to win matches. What creates threads like this one isn't how matches play out. It is the fragile egos of players who want to win matches via hitting winners, yet end up losing because of errors.

 

[thomas daniels]

"So more people commented on the post, than liked it(nothing but trolls on this site), so guess what, maybe this post isn't for you my friend... and if that is the case, why would you feel a need to comment on it?"

I guess many of you are coaches or something.

 

[Fintft]

Most points are lost, not won. Thus ...

Competitive (counting points) tennis it's a ****ty sport lol
That's why I prefer to practice/rally.

And to make matters worse, I come from basketball where it's better to attack.

 

[zaph]

The OPs advice is terrible because like many people giving such advice they don't understand the weaknesses of low level players. Their advice amounts to be a better a tennis player.

I have played as a pusher and an aggressive player. In fact I recommend trying pushing if you struggle with pushers because it gives you a much better understanding of th style. Take the OPs advice to play for the short ball. When I push in low level tennis I often deliberately give my opponent a short ball because they suck at the net. They will either try to blast a winner or hit a weak approach shot I can dink past them.

What makes people think pushers hate playing at the net? Against a great volleyer yes but you aint going to find them in low level tennis. Just blocking the ball isn't going to be enough because the pusher will run it down and make you play another volley or the pusher will go for a lob.

The other issue for low level players is their serve. If they hit hard enough to stop the pusher dinking them to death, they will double fault. If they lower the pace to get it in, they lose control of their service games.

As I said, the OPs useless advice basically consists of be a higher standard tennis player.

 

[zaph]

In order to win matches, you need to win points. There are two ways of winning points: other guy's error or your winner. Most points are lost, not won. Thus having a high consistancy game is an excellent way to win matches. What creates threads like this one isn't how matches play out. It is the fragile egos of players who want to win matches via hitting winners, yet end up losing because of errors.

The only exception to that is when you meet a better pusher/junkballer, then consistent play is pointless. The only way I have found to win in such situations is to go for absurd first strike tennis.

I played in a league with pushers/junkballers who were better than me at that style, so I thought sod it, lets just hit the ball as hard as possible. Ignore the score and go for everything. OK it worked one out of three times but I did win some matches that way and it wasn't to do with errors from my opponent.

After all, if they never got a racket on the ball, how could they have possibly made an error?

Not saying it is an effective way of playing but it is a fun way to play, sometimes.

 

[LuckyR]

Competitive (counting points) tennis it's a ****ty sport lol
That's why I prefer to practice/rally.

And to make matters worse, I come from basketball where it's better to attack.

There is no doubt that tennis is very different from basketball. Matchplay tennis is really a mental sport, that happens to be played with a ball and some racquets. Points lost either come from your inability to perform or your inability to handle what the other guy can do. There's no teammates to hide your ego behind, there's no clock to run out with lame stalling, there's no pathetic fake "unintentional" fouls in the last 2 minutes. It is truly a battle, what you win, the other guy loses.

You're right, tennis isn't for everyone.

 

[LuckyR]

The only exception to that is when you meet a better pusher/junkballer, then consistent play is pointless. The only way I have found to win in such situations is to go for absurd first strike tennis.

I played in a league with pushers/junkballers who were better than me at that style, so I thought sod it, lets just hit the ball as hard as possible. Ignore the score and go for everything. OK it worked one out of three times but I did win some matches that way and it wasn't to do with errors from my opponent.

After all, if they never got a racket on the ball, how could they have possibly made an error?

Not saying it is an effective way of playing but it is a fun way to play, sometimes.

There is a reason to have a plan B when your plan A isn't working on a particular day. If you are normally a high consistancy player but your opponent is even higher consistancy than you, we know several things: first, he's better than you, second if you play your high consistancy game you're going to lose, therefore you need to switch things up, perhaps to a lower consistancy game by going for winners, though in my experience it would be rare for someone who typically doesn't shoot for winners to suddenly be really good at it against better opposition. Usually playing a low consistancy game just makes losses happen faster. Better to use a plan B that uses moving the other player into a position where they can be counterpunched.

 

[Fintft]

There is no doubt that tennis is very different from basketball. Matchplay tennis is really a mental sport, that happens to be played with a ball and some racquets. Points lost either come from your inability to perform or your inability to handle what the other guy can do. There's no teammates to hide your ego behind, there's no clock to run out with lame stalling, there's no pathetic fake "unintentional" fouls in the last 2 minutes. It is truly a battle, what you win, the other guy loses.

You're right, tennis isn't for everyone.

Don't diss basketball please (or presume things)
In mind my mind basketball rewards the attacker style, which doesn't seem to be the case for tennis.

Plus, in regards to technique, in basketball there are way fewer ugly techniques that can win you games (and even those work probably only from the free shot line), as oposed to tennis.

 

[jga111]

I love pushers, they’re a great marker for your current ability in match play.

If you’re naturally an aggressive player then keep playing the same way. You only lose to yourself in this instance (UE count). Nothing wrong with that. But everything wrong with losing playing their game. This mental switch is the hardest thing in sports

 

[zaph]

There is a reason to have a plan B when your plan A isn't working on a particular day. If you are normally a high consistancy player but your opponent is even higher consistancy than you, we know several things: first, he's better than you, second if you play your high consistancy game you're going to lose, therefore you need to switch things up, perhaps to a lower consistancy game by going for winners, though in my experience it would be rare for someone who typically doesn't shoot for winners to suddenly be really good at it against better opposition. Usually playing a low consistancy game just makes losses happen faster. Better to use a plan B that uses moving the other player into a position where they can be counterpunched.

You're right of course but I have never been able to move people about or get them into a position were they can't trouble me. Instead of me controlling the point, it turns into an endless dinkathon.

So my thought is f**k this, lets just smack it.

 

[Bobs tennis]

We constantly talk about "PUSHERS" as a bad thing. Perhaps they see what you don't like or can't handle then consider what they can do and play. And yes it seems many people immediately call you a pusher if you beat them. I've read so much about that type player but still can't understand the problem. I think at the rec level tennis is like a street fight there are no rules how to play.

 

[LuckyR]

Don't diss basketball please (or presume things)
In mind my mind basketball rewards the attacker style, which doesn't seem to be the case for tennis.

Plus, in regards to technique, in basketball there are way fewer ugly techniques that can win you games (and even those work probably only from the free shot line), as oposed to tennis.

Seriously? Read back your post (on a Tennis Forum) I quoted and take your own advice.

 

[LuckyR]

You're right of course but I have never been able to move people about or get them into a position were they can't trouble me. Instead of me controlling the point, it turns into an endless dinkathon.

So my thought is f**k this, lets just smack it.

I get it, though I can tell you that as you acquire a broader skill set the true beauty of the strategic and tactical side of matchplay will blossom. Keep going, don't get discouraged by match results right now.

 

[Fintft]

Seriously? Read back your post (on a Tennis Forum) I quoted and take your own advice.

Seriously what?

That tennis is a sport that doesn't reward attackers? Only Federer of the Big 4 is an attacker.
That in basketball there are way fewer ugly techniques that can win you games (and even those work probably only from the free shot line), as oposed to tennis?

 

[Mr.Lob]

Most important shot to have against a pusher is a good overhead. Otherwise it's lob lob lob when you come to the net.

 

[zaph]

I get it, though I can tell you that as you acquire a broader skill set the true beauty of the strategic and tactical side of matchplay will blossom. Keep going, don't get discouraged by match results right now.

Here is the thing, I don't really care about results, it is not really why I play. I play to have fun.

And to be honest I have realised that I kind of like playing like a lunatic. I know that some of the shots I attempt are mad but I have more fun doing that than playing disciplined tennis.

 

[liam the shark]

Idk why, but I love out pushing pushers.

 

[LuckyR]

Here is the thing, I don't really care about results, it is not really why I play. I play to have fun.

And to be honest I have realised that I kind of like playing like a lunatic. I know that some of the shots I attempt are mad but I have more fun doing that than playing disciplined tennis.

You bring up a very good point. Namely that matchplay tennis is not fun. It is very full of frustration and can be ego crushing. What your opponent wins comes directly at your expense (his winning equates to your losing, unlike sports where you rack up points for the duration of the contest). It's not for the timid.

 

[movdqa]

One of my hitting partners is a pusher. Just practice against a pusher and you really groove your strokes to hit a variety of slow to medium paced balls, and lots and lots of high balls. I just work on hitting the ball back to him with moderate pace and moderate topspin. Then just spend an hour a day doing cardio so that you have the energy for long, slow rallies.

 

[mucat]

Everyone should learn how to push and throw junks. Those are important defensive skills. They also make your better against those shots.

 

[user92626]

Most important shot to have against a pusher is a good overhead. Otherwise it's lob lob lob when you come to the net.

I love hitting angles -- make pushers, retrievers run -- and myself doing variety shots off of many shots and feeling like a pro's. Only pushers are able to give me that.

How are you gonna do a tweener against a ball basher?

 

[zaph]

Everyone should learn how to push and throw junks. Those are important defensive skills. They also make your better against those shots.

I kind of agree with you. When you push and junk you see why aggressive shots in low level tennis are so ineffective. That hard hit forehand to the baseline looks great and took a great deal of skill to hit. It is also a piece of **** the block back and defend.

I have found ff you want to get a ball past a pusher you need to nail it into one of the corners hard and you're going to have to pull that shot off against a short/low/no pace ball, which isn't easy. Otherwise you just get sucked in an endless pushathon.

 

[mucat]

I kind of agree with you. When you push and junk you see why aggressive shots in low level tennis are so ineffective. That hard hit forehand to the baseline looks great and took a great deal of skill to hit. It is also a piece of **** the block back and defend.

Even pros throw junks when they are on defense.

I have found ff you want to get a ball past a pusher you need to nail it into one of the corners hard and you're going to have to pull that shot off against a short/low/no pace ball, which isn't easy. Otherwise you just get sucked in an endless pushathon.

I don't think "nailing ball into the corner" is a good approach. You should hit safe and high quality angle shots to try open up the court and go from there.

 

[Jono123]

You dont see many pushers above a strong 4.0. level. The UE's dry up and they have little ability to construct their own points.

I agree with the OP, bring them to the net with short balls, as invariably they cant volley either.

 

[zaph]

Even pros throw junks when they are on defense.



I don't think "nailing ball into the corner" is a good approach. You should hit safe and high quality angle shots to try open up the court and go from there.

Which they will run down, that safe quality angle shot is easy for a pro but it is tough for a low level player to get enough on it to beat a fast pusher.

 

[ubercat]

I certainly have beaten baseliners with that short angle FH shot. 2 or 3 a match it needs to be a change up when they r positioned deep. They often will get a racquet on. But normally by then they have to hit a ball below net over high part on the run. Not easy. And then you lob to their BH ...muah haw haw.

 

[Fairhit]

I certainly have beaten baseliners with that short angle FH shot. 2 or 3 a match it needs to be a change up when they r positioned deep. They often will get a racquet on. But normally by then they have to hit a ball below net over high part on the run. Not easy. And then you lob to their BH ...muah haw haw.

I do this when I play against a certain pusher I know, dropshot and rush to the net, lob volley and he has to runs diagonally to the back, he never returns those.

 

[mucat]

Which they will run down, that safe quality angle shot is easy for a pro but it is tough for a low level player to get enough on it to beat a fast pusher.

Which it is fine. The pusher might run down and return the first shot, or the 2nd, or the 3rd, whatever, you just need to until they cannot return. Their returns will usually get weaker and weaker. At those moments, you can choose to keep going side to side or come to the net.
They might hit a good defense shot to reset the point, that's fine too. We can redo this again.
Should always expect the ball to come back .

 

[zaph]

Which it is fine. The pusher might run down and return the first shot, or the 2nd, or the 3rd, whatever, you just need to until they cannot return. Their returns will usually get weaker and weaker. At those moments, you can choose to keep going side to side or come to the net.
They might hit a good defense shot to reset the point, that's fine too. We can redo this again.
Should always expect the ball to come back .

Does America have poor quality pushers? In the UK they will either knock it down the line or drop it short. In my experience that don't hit defensive shots to reset the point.

 

[mucat]

Does America have poor quality pushers? In the UK they will either knock it down the line or drop it short. In my experience that don't hit defensive shots to reset the point.

That's perfect. You hit to the side, they go down the line, now they opened the court for you. The textbook way for your opponent is to hit something high and deep to reset the point. If they go down the line with a normal shot, they are just going to rob themselves time to get back to position because you next shot should be cross court fast.
If they try dropshot, it will likely be a crappy one, unless your previous shot didnt do enough damage. Now you have a short ball, hit a good approach shot and wait for the overhead.

Like I said before, you dont try to hit winners, just keep hitting high quality shot one after another and have the mindset to do it all day.

 

[davced1]

I played a guy today who s&v'd on serves so maybe not a pusher but he has incredible shot tolerance but not an offensive player from the baseline. What worked best was to play with moderate aggression and follow up to the net, conserving energy and save it for short sprints when I had to play defensive or was dragged into the inevitable long rallies. When I on purpose played the long rallies with safe shots but with different spins and placements he just ended up winning the point and I just got fatigued out of it. However it's a great way to work on your own shot tolerance, I could hang with him but missed on the 101st shot maybe.

The winning way is to play good quality semi-aggressive shots EARLY in the rallies because as the rallies goes on the shot quality will go down from physical and mental fatigue and the probability of missing the offensive shot that has to come eventually vs players like that will only increase as the rally drags on.

 

[Jono123]

I remember one player at my local club who was the ultimate pusher. He was a strong 4.0 level, super fit and could run anything down. At 6.2 he also had great wingspan which allowed him to traverse both corridors. The only remedy for him was a short ball as tall players dont seem to like lunging forward so much and he no net game to speak of.

I remember playing a semis in our yearly comp and he was playing his next to me when I entered the court. When I had finished he was still playing and an hour later he finally won. His opponent, another pusher of lesser ability was beetroot red in the face.