Do you think Guillermo Vilas will win in the trial and be recognized as number one?

Vegito

Hall of Fame
Maybe the word is judge and no trial. I´m not sure...

I don´t know if the judge started or when it will be; but I heard he has hired a lawyer. Then I guess he is going to challenge the ATP! He is still fighting for the number one!
 
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Vilas should indeed be recognised as world No 1.

Then Murray can officially claim he is the best never to have reached that position.
The problem is that it isnt a common consensus Vilas was #1 for 77 at all. The computer points say Connors, and most of the official experts say Borg. There are some good arguments for Vilas, and if forced to pick he would probably be my #1 for that year, but it isnt a clear cut thing at all. Certainly not something you can expect to win a court case over, LOL! IMO he honestly needs to let it go already, he looks more bitter about not being credited for the #1 ranking of 1977 than I am about Boston Rob voting me off on my season of Survivor, and it is 40 years later, not just 5.
 
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jean pierre

Professional
The problem is that it isnt a common consensus Vilas was #1 for 77 at all. The computer points say Connors, and most of the official experts say Borg. There are some good arguments for Vilas, and if forced to pick he would probably be my #1 for that year, but it isnt a clear cut thing at all. Certainly not something you can expect to win a court case over, LOL! IMO he honestly needs to let it go already, he looks more bitter about not being credited for the #1 ranking of 1977 than I am about Boston Rob voting me off on my season of Survivor, and it is 40 years later, not just 5.


Th question is not about 1977 but about 1975. Vilas was the real world champion in 1977, but not number 1 in ATP ranking. In 1975, he was.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Vilas has never officially been ranked number #1.
He should have officially been #1 for several weeks in 1975, ATP rankings didn't come out weekly back then which is why it was never official - his short window at #1 never matched up with when the ATP rankings came out.
 

Minion

Hall of Fame
The problem is that it isnt a common consensus Vilas was #1 for 77 at all. The computer points say Connors, and most of the official experts say Borg. There are some good arguments for Vilas, and if forced to pick he would probably be my #1 for that year, but it isnt a clear cut thing at all. Certainly not something you can expect to win a court case over, LOL! IMO he honestly needs to let it go already, he looks more bitter about not being credited for the #1 ranking of 1977 than I am about Boston Rob voting me off on my season of Survivor, and it is 40 years later, not just 5.
Eh what? You were on TV?
 
7

70sHollywood

Guest
The main problem as I see it is that you are taking away weeks from Connors and he cannot do anything about it. If he had know he wasn't the real number 1 for a period in 1975 he may have chosen to play more tournaments to keep/regain his position. I'd guess Connors could have some sort of legal claim if he had weeks removed from his number 1 tally.
 

jean pierre

Professional
The main problem as I see it is that you are taking away weeks from Connors and he cannot do anything about it. If he had know he wasn't the real number 1 for a period in 1975 he may have chosen to play more tournaments to keep/regain his position. I'd guess Connors could have some sort of legal claim if he had weeks removed from his number 1 tally.

No problem for Connors. The point is that ATP ranking was not published during a few weeks, and, these weeks, Vilas was the number 1. Nothing changes for the weeks when Connors was number 1.
 

timnz

Legend
No problem for Connors. The point is that ATP ranking was not published during a few weeks, and, these weeks, Vilas was the number 1. Nothing changes for the weeks when Connors was number 1.
If Vilas succeeds it will mean a reduction in Connors weeks at number 1 - it has to. Connors is currently credited with number 1 for ALL of the weeks from 29 July 1974 to 22 August 1977. If Vilas takes some of those weeks, then it logically follows that Connors number of weeks at number 1 drops.
 

jean pierre

Professional
If Vilas succeeds it will mean a reduction in Connors weeks at number 1 - it has to. Connors is currently credited with number 1 for ALL of the weeks from 29 July 1974 to 22 August 1977. If Vilas takes some of those weeks, then it logically follows that Connors number of weeks at number 1 drops.
Are you sure that Connors is credited for all these weeks ? It's absurd, because ATP ranking was not published every week !
 

Vegito

Hall of Fame
suThe ranking system was so complex back then; and the ATP ranking has less prestige than in the actuality. Although some newpapers showed when there were updates in the rankings; maybe the rankings made by specialist were more importants; and the ending year ranking was the more important(considering ATP ranking and others) Also the ATP rankings were used more to create the seeds than to determinate who was the best player, the second best and so one. Then, I don´t think Vilas or Connors had much idea about what they had to do to be number one. Connors decided to play some tournaments at the beginning of 1975 that didn´t gave many points and lost some in the first rounds, while Vilas was not playing and then he played some tournaments that gave a lot of points previous to the US Open with success, while Connors was not playing. Vilas reached the final of the French Open, which Connors didn´t play. Connors reached the final of the Australian Open but it gaved lesser points than the other three Slams. That´s why Vilas average was better at some point after the US Open and probably neither Vilas or Connors suspected it, maybe they didn´t care because the ending-year ranking was more important. But if Vilas should have appeared as number one in in new published rankings in that moment, then the ATP had a mistake. And that´s the part of the rule-books that´s is not very clear to me. Did they had to update the rankings when there was a change? With wich frequency they had to update the rankings? Apparently the answer of the ATP, which don´t question the results of the investigation is "We don´t know" Then I think it´s ok it goes to a trial.

I found the rulebooks said:

"Separate singles and doubles rankings are calculated EVERY week in the ATP world headquarters in Dallas, Texas"
 
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KG1965

Legend
The ranking system was so complex back then; and the ATP ranking has les prestige than in the actuality. Although ome newpapers showed when there were updates in the rankings; maybe the rankings made by specialist were more importants; and the ending year ranking was the more important(considering ATP ranking and others) Also the ATP rankings exited more to create the seeds than to determinate who was the best player, the second best and so one. Then, I don´t think Vilas or Connors had much idea about what they had to do to be number one. Connors decided to play some tournaments at the beginning of 1975 that didn´t gave many points and lost some in the first rounds, while Vilas was not playing and then he played some tournaments that gave a lot of points previous to the US Open with success, while Connors was not playing. Vilas reached the final of the French Open, which Connors didn´t play. Connors reached the final of the Australian Open but it gaved lesser points than the other three Slams. That´s why Vilas average was better at some point after the US Open and probably neither Vilas or Connors suspected it, maybe they didn´t care because the ending-year ranking was more important. But if Vilas shouldhave appeared as number one in in new published rankings in that moment, then the ATP had a mistake. And that´s the part of the rule-books that´s is not very clear to me. Did they had to update the rankings when there was a change? With wich freqency they had to update the rankings? Apparently the answer of the ATP, which don´t question the results of the invetigation is "We don´t know" Then I think it´s ok it goes to a trial.

I found the rulebooks said:

"Separate singles and doubles rankings are calculated EVERY week in the ATP world headquarters in Dallas, Texas"
What you claim is true .

The rankings were made every week . It's clear that in some periods were not published because the tennis had not yet followed by the media as in 2016 , but it 's absurd to be missing just the 6 or 7 weeks where Vilas exceeded Connors . Absurd.

The problems are two :
1 ) the ranking ATP had a series of defects
2 ) the ranking ATP of 1975 may be obtained, then Vilas is number one for a few weeks .

The Chapter 1 ) is interesting but it is not the subject of the thread.

Vilas , despite not having a sensational year (unlike in 1977) at some point is rightly in front of everyone because :
1 ) has many placings
2 ) Connors wins tournaments that give a few points and lost always important finals ( W , USO , Stockholm , Dewar Cup )
3 ) the real opponents are Ashe and Orantes despite playing well but do not have an exciting year and lose many matches .

Thus the ranking is short and shrunken and Vilas is first .
In other words , we are not arguing about who was the best in 1975 ( presumably Connors but did not show it ) or who should be number one ( Ashe and Orantes ) but that Vilas was number one for several weeks .
VILAS 'WAS NUMBER ONE .
 

Vegito

Hall of Fame
What you claim is true .

The rankings were made every week . It's clear that in some periods were not published because the tennis had not yet followed by the media as in 2016 , but it 's absurd to be missing just the 6 or 7 weeks where Vilas exceeded Connors . Absurd.

The problems are two :
1 ) the ranking ATP had a series of defects
2 ) the ranking ATP of 1975 may be obtained, then Vilas is number one for a few weeks .

The Chapter 1 ) is interesting but it is not the subject of the thread.

Vilas , despite not having a sensational year (unlike in 1977) at some point is rightly in front of everyone because :
1 ) has many placings
2 ) Connors wins tournaments that give a few points and lost always important finals ( W , USO , Stockholm , Dewar Cup )
3 ) the real opponents are Ashe and Orantes despite playing well but do not have an exciting year and lose many matches .

Thus the ranking is short and shrunken and Vilas is first .
In other words , we are not arguing about who was the best in 1975 ( presumably Connors but did not show it ) or who should be number one ( Ashe and Orantes ) but that Vilas was number one for several weeks .
VILAS 'WAS NUMBER ONE .
The same ranking system that we would call "unfair" that didn´t help Vilas in 1977; apparently helped him in 1975. What an irony.

I always had the idea that his results of moments of 1974 and 1975 seems better than in 1977, in part. He won a Tennis Masters Cup in grass in 1974, he reached the quarterfinals in Wimbledon in 1975(also in 1976); which he didn´t do in 1977; he beat Borg in the Masters 1975. He reached the final of the WTC in 1976 playing an interesting match against Borg in a fat surface. Between 1974 and 1976 he had better results in Rome than in 1977...just he had to lost in a second round in 1977! All his other participations before and after that year were excellents. It´s amazing. I read it was raining that day he lost in Rome in 1977 and he said that affected his game. He then reached the final in 1979, and won in 1981.

Vilas World Number One.
 

timnz

Legend
Are you sure that Connors is credited for all these weeks ? It's absurd, because ATP ranking was not published every week !
Yes he was (see the first of the links below). It was not published every week back then, as you say, but Connors was the only one credited with number 1 at that time. Hence, the ATP has ascribed him as being number 1 for all of those weeks in a row. Vilas' case is that for some weeks of 1975 and early 1976 - if the ranking had been published everyweek - then Connors streak on the ranking would have been broken then. I confess to being on Vilas' side. A player shouldn't lose credit for being number 1 just because the ATP couldn't produce the rankings every week and therefore missed them out.

It is worth looking at this -this tells you who was number 1 for the various weeks (according to the ATP):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ATP_number_1_ranked_singles_players

This is also of use:

http://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/players/rankings-explained.aspx

It sounds like the weekly ranking updates didn't start happening until late 1979.

I believe therefore the ATP should review the rankings every week from August 1973 to the end of 1979 - to see if they are accurate. With computers now, the task wouldn't be that hard. A journalist can calculate the rankings for Vilas in 1975 and 1976, surely the ATP could do the same for 6 and a bit years.

(BTW I always thought it was suspicious that Borg was number 1 for only 1 week only before April of 1979)
 
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KG1965

Legend
I found an article that explains the moment when Vilas overtake Connors in 1975 .

I insert it , then the next day maybe I put it in order .


Septiembre 16, 1975 (ufficial)
Jimmy Connors – 832 – 18 torneos – 46,222 promedio
G
uillermo Vilas – 927 – 21 torneos – 44,143 promedio
Ma questi valori non sono corretti. Ecco le correzioni dopo l’analisi di 12.000 risultati incrociati. Septiembre 16, 1975 (ERRORES CORRETTI):
Jimmy Connors – 812 – 18 – 45,111
Guillermo Vilas – 929 – 21 – 44,238

La continuità del ranking settimanale – non pubblicato da l’Atp dopo il 16 settembre è il seguente: Septiembre 22, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO)
Guillermo Vilas – 929 – 21 – 44,2382.
Jimmy Connors – 772 – 18 – 42,889
Guillermo Vilas conquista il n.1 perchè Jimmy Connors perde 82 punti di Los Angeles 1974 (categoría C, campeón) e ottiene 40 punti per vincere un torneo in Bermude 1975 (categoría E) con 2 punti di bonus.
Connors: 812 – 82 + 42 = 772 / 18 = 42,889 di media, più bassa che quella di Vilas, che non cambia il totale dei suoi punti.

Septiembre 29, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 991 – 22 – 45,0452
Jimmy Connors – 750 – 17 – 44,118
Vilas rimane come Nº 1 per aver ottenuto 60 punti nella finale di San Francisco 1975 (categoría C) con 2 punti di buono.
Vilas: 929 + 62 = 991 / 22 = 45,045
Connors perde 22 punti di quarti a San Francisco 1974 (categoría C).
Connors: 772 – 22 = 750 / 17 = 44,118


Ottobre 6, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 991 – 22 – 45,0452
Jimmy Connors – 790 – 18 – 43,889
V
ilas rimane Nº 1 con lo stesso punteggio.
Connors guadagna 40 puntis perchè vince a Maui 1975 (categoría E).
Connors: 750 + 40 = 790 / 18 = 43,88

Ottobre 13, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 972 – 22 – 44,1822
Jimmy Connors – 790 – 18 – 43,88
V
ilas retsa n. 1 dopo aver perso 34 punti delle semifinali di Madrid 1974 (categoría D) e guadagna 15 punti per i quarti di final a Madrid 1975 (categoría D)
Vilas: 991 – 34 + 15 = 972 / 22 = 44,182
Connors è Nº 2 con 43,88

Ottobre 20, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 997 – 22 – 45,3182
Jimmy Connors – 790 – 18 – 43,889
V
ilas mantiene il Nº 1 dopo che cede 7 punti per il R16 di Barcelona 1974 (categoría D) e ottiene 30 punti per la semifinale di Barcelona 1975 (categoría D) con 2 punti di bonus.
Vilas: 972 – 7 + 32 = 997 / 22 = 45,318
Connors nº 2 con 43,889

Ottobre 27, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Jimmy Connors – 790 – 18 – 43,8892.
Guillermo Vilas – 955 – 22 – 43,409

Connors torna nº 1 con 43,889 de promedio después de que Vilas deja caer 82 puntos por su victoria en Teherán 1974 (categoría C) y adosar 40 puntos por las semifinales de Teherán 1975 (categoría C).
Vilas: 997 – 82 + 40 = 955 / 22 = 43,40


Aunque los puntos no sean equivalentes, se puede regresar a partir de aquí a las clasificaciones oficiales, que fueron publicadas sólo dos días más ****e y que no tienen las correcciones de errores en cuenta. Aparecen de esta forma:
Octubre 29, 1975 (OFICIAL):
Jimmy Connors – 810 – 18 – 45,0002.
Guillermo Vilas – 968 – 22 – 44,000

Sólo en este escenario es necesario pasar al 5 de enero de 1976, debido a que allí se produce otro cambio en la posición de Nº 1 mundial. Antes, estos son los valores del 15 de diciembre de 1975, la clasificación final oficial de 1975:

Diciembre 15, 1975 (OFICIAL):
Jimmy Connors – 769 – 18 – 42,7222
Guillermo Vilas – 893 – 21 – 42,523

Otra vez, desde aquí, se aplican correcciones de errores a esos valores y se obtiene lo siguiente:

Diciembre 15, 1975 (ERRORES CORREGIDOS):
Jimmy Connors – 771 – 18 – 42,8332
Guillermo Vilas – 897 – 21 – 42,714

El 5 de enero de 1976 se abandonan los valores del Abierto de Australia 1975. El torneo era categoría D y Connors había sido finalista en 1975, por lo tanto, pierde 45 puntos.
Los resultados permanecen igual el 12 de enero, porque ningún torneo se resta o suma para cualquiera de los dos jugadores.

Enero 5, 1976 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 897 – 22 – 42,7142.
Jimmy Connors – 726 – 17 – 42,706

Enero 12, 1976 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 897 – 22 – 42,7142.
Jimmy Connors – 726 – 17 – 42,706

El 19 de enero Connors deja caer los 20 puntos que ganó en Bahamas 1975 (torneo organizado por la IPA, categoría F) y recobra el Nº 1. A partir de ese momento lo mantiene el resto de 1976 hasta agosto de 1977:

Enero 19, 1976 (NO PUBLICADO):
Jimmy Connors – 706 – 16 – 44,1252.
Guillermo Vilas – 897 – 22 – 42,714
 
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KG1965

Legend
The same ranking system that we would call "unfair" that didn´t help Vilas in 1977; apparently helped him in 1975. What an irony.

I always had the idea that his results of moments of 1974 and 1975 seems better than in 1977, in part. He won a Tennis Masters Cup in grass in 1974, he reached the quarterfinals in Wimbledon in 1975(also in 1976); which he didn´t do in 1977; he beat Borg in the Masters 1975. He reached the final of the WTC in 1976 playing an interesting match against Borg in a fat surface. Between 1974 and 1976 he had better results in Rome than in 1977...just he had to lost in a second round in 1977! All his other participations before and after that year were excellents. It´s amazing. I read it was raining that day he lost in Rome in 1977 and he said that affected his game. He then reached the final in 1979, and won in 1981.

Vilas World Number One.
As you can read in previous posts there are of Guillermo passing data.

Why contenders for ATP are Jimbo and Vilas, who did not win the Grand Slam ?
Why not Orantes , Borg and Ashe ?

I try to answer .

The ranking deducts points from the previous year and sum those of 1975 .
Connors had closed 1974 with an average of 59.08 in 1975 plays weaker and does not win major and great tournaments so you do not get to 50.00 .

His opponents fail to reach ever to 45,00 except for Vilas .

Orantes , Borg and especially Ashe plays a good 1975 but never get to 40,00 because :
1 ) plays too many tournaments
2 ) Orantes is penalized by the ranking because he is involved in several minor tournaments GP
3 ) Ashe and Borg win many tournaments WCT circuit, but the ATP does not consider them big tournaments
4 ) the WCT Finals in Dallas ( Ashe beats Borg ) do not give points.
 
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Vegito

Hall of Fame
Thanks, Slasher. Good detailed, and easily explained information. Where did you find it? What a casuality they updated the rankings On 29 October!!! o_O It looks like id they did it in purpose; although we don´t know. But in any case Vilas claim is clearly reasonable.
 

KG1965

Legend
I found an article that explains the moment when Vilas overtake Connors in 1975 .

I insert it , then the next day maybe I put it in order .


Septiembre 16, 1975 (ufficial)
Jimmy Connors – 832 – 18 torneos – 46,222 promedio
G
uillermo Vilas – 927 – 21 torneos – 44,143 promedio
Ma questi valori non sono corretti. Ecco le correzioni dopo l’analisi di 12.000 risultati incrociati. Septiembre 16, 1975 (ERRORES CORRETTI):
Jimmy Connors – 812 – 18 – 45,111
Guillermo Vilas – 929 – 21 – 44,238

La continuità del ranking settimanale – non pubblicato da l’Atp dopo il 16 settembre è il seguente: Septiembre 22, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO)
Guillermo Vilas – 929 – 21 – 44,2382.
Jimmy Connors – 772 – 18 – 42,889
Guillermo Vilas conquista il n.1 perchè Jimmy Connors perde 82 punti di Los Angeles 1974 (categoría C, campeón) e ottiene 40 punti per vincere un torneo in Bermude 1975 (categoría E) con 2 punti di bonus.
Connors: 812 – 82 + 42 = 772 / 18 = 42,889 di media, più bassa che quella di Vilas, che non cambia il totale dei suoi punti.

Septiembre 29, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 991 – 22 – 45,0452
Jimmy Connors – 750 – 17 – 44,118
Vilas rimane come Nº 1 per aver ottenuto 60 punti nella finale di San Francisco 1975 (categoría C) con 2 punti di buono.
Vilas: 929 + 62 = 991 / 22 = 45,045
Connors perde 22 punti di quarti a San Francisco 1974 (categoría C).
Connors: 772 – 22 = 750 / 17 = 44,118


Ottobre 6, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 991 – 22 – 45,0452
Jimmy Connors – 790 – 18 – 43,889
V
ilas rimane Nº 1 con lo stesso punteggio.
Connors guadagna 40 puntis perchè vince a Maui 1975 (categoría E).
Connors: 750 + 40 = 790 / 18 = 43,88

Ottobre 13, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 972 – 22 – 44,1822
Jimmy Connors – 790 – 18 – 43,88
V
ilas retsa n. 1 dopo aver perso 34 punti delle semifinali di Madrid 1974 (categoría D) e guadagna 15 punti per i quarti di final a Madrid 1975 (categoría D)
Vilas: 991 – 34 + 15 = 972 / 22 = 44,182
Connors è Nº 2 con 43,88

Ottobre 20, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 997 – 22 – 45,3182
Jimmy Connors – 790 – 18 – 43,889
V
ilas mantiene il Nº 1 dopo che cede 7 punti per il R16 di Barcelona 1974 (categoría D) e ottiene 30 punti per la semifinale di Barcelona 1975 (categoría D) con 2 punti di bonus.
Vilas: 972 – 7 + 32 = 997 / 22 = 45,318
Connors nº 2 con 43,889

Ottobre 27, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Jimmy Connors – 790 – 18 – 43,8892.
Guillermo Vilas – 955 – 22 – 43,409

Connors torna nº 1 con 43,889 de promedio después de que Vilas deja caer 82 puntos por su victoria en Teherán 1974 (categoría C) y adosar 40 puntos por las semifinales de Teherán 1975 (categoría C).
Vilas: 997 – 82 + 40 = 955 / 22 = 43,40


Aunque los puntos no sean equivalentes, se puede regresar a partir de aquí a las clasificaciones oficiales, que fueron publicadas sólo dos días más ****e y que no tienen las correcciones de errores en cuenta. Aparecen de esta forma:
Octubre 29, 1975 (OFICIAL):
Jimmy Connors – 810 – 18 – 45,0002.
Guillermo Vilas – 968 – 22 – 44,000

Sólo en este escenario es necesario pasar al 5 de enero de 1976, debido a que allí se produce otro cambio en la posición de Nº 1 mundial. Antes, estos son los valores del 15 de diciembre de 1975, la clasificación final oficial de 1975:

Diciembre 15, 1975 (OFICIAL):
Jimmy Connors – 769 – 18 – 42,7222
Guillermo Vilas – 893 – 21 – 42,523

Otra vez, desde aquí, se aplican correcciones de errores a esos valores y se obtiene lo siguiente:

Diciembre 15, 1975 (ERRORES CORREGIDOS):
Jimmy Connors – 771 – 18 – 42,8332
Guillermo Vilas – 897 – 21 – 42,714

El 5 de enero de 1976 se abandonan los valores del Abierto de Australia 1975. El torneo era categoría D y Connors había sido finalista en 1975, por lo tanto, pierde 45 puntos.
Los resultados permanecen igual el 12 de enero, porque ningún torneo se resta o suma para cualquiera de los dos jugadores.

Enero 5, 1976 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 897 – 22 – 42,7142.
Jimmy Connors – 726 – 17 – 42,706

Enero 12, 1976 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 897 – 22 – 42,7142.
Jimmy Connors – 726 – 17 – 42,706

El 19 de enero Connors deja caer los 20 puntos que ganó en Bahamas 1975 (torneo organizado por la IPA, categoría F) y recobra el Nº 1. A partir de ese momento lo mantiene el resto de 1976 hasta agosto de 1977:

Enero 19, 1976 (NO PUBLICADO):
Jimmy Connors – 706 – 16 – 44,1252.
Guillermo Vilas – 897 – 22 – 42,714
I think it is interesting to note that:

1 ) September 16 , 1975 ... following US Open Connors and Vilas are very close but Jimmy decided to participate in two minor tournaments ( Bermuda & Maui ) loses the points won in Los Angeles (82, big tournament ) in 1974 . Despite he wins the two tournaments loses very average points .
2 ) Vilas exceeds Connors without winning a tournament , but only with plaiìcings and a final in San Francisco .
3 ) Connors returns to No. 1 without playing for a loss of points of Vilas compared to 1974
4 ) Following Connors will increase the average for two lost finals in Stockholm ( Panatta ) and London Dewar Cup ( Dibbs ) .
5 ) Jimmy lose control in two weeks of January 1976 without Vilas plays , also for the loss of the final scores of the Australian Open 1975.
 

KG1965

Legend
The 1975 Vilas is not a sensational year ( such as 1977) but it is fair that reaches the number one for a few weeks because the square is better than the other contenders in a greater number of major tournaments :
Q Hamburg
S Rome
F French Open
Q Nottingham
Q Wimbledon
W Washington
F Indianapolis
W Louisville
F Boston
S US Open
F San Francisco
Q Madrid
S Barcelona
S Teheran
S Paris

S Masters GP but no scores.
 

KG1965

Legend
Clarification: here we are discussing the weeks that ATP has decided not to award to Vilas despite the Argentine champion was number one.

There is no question of the number one of the ATP rankings to 31.12.1975 ( Connors ) or the number one in 1975 , including WCT Finals & GP Masters and maybe exhibitions ( Ashe , or alternatively Orantes ) .
 

Vegito

Hall of Fame
There is a positive aspect. If they recognize to Vilas his number one they would not be changing the 1975 ATP ending year number one, which maybe is important for Connors and he would complain if they do that...also they will not have to change a name in the big trophy they give to the ending year number one every year since 2010(after they changed the classic trophy with form of number one)
 

KG1965

Legend
There is a positive aspect. If they recognize to Vilas his number one they would not be changing the 1975 ATP ending year number one, which maybe is important for Connors and he would complain if they do that...also they will not have to change a name in the big trophy they give to the ending year number one every year since 2010(after they changed the classic trophy with form of number one)
Vegito , are in contact with Vilas or Puppo ?
 

Vegito

Hall of Fame
Vegito , are in contact with Vilas or Puppo ?
No, I´m just guessing! I mean Vilas can claim those 5 weeks of 1975 and 2 of 1976 but not the ending number one of 1975; it´s just what the investigation says. And I´m guessing it would bother Connors more if he lost the ending year number one of 1975 than if he loses some weeks of september and october.
 

KG1965

Legend
No, I´m just guessing! I mean Vilas can claim those 5 weeks of 1975 and 2 of 1976 but not the ending number one of 1975; it´s just what the investigation says. And I´m guessing it would bother Connors more if he lost the ending year number one of 1975 than if he loses some weeks of september and october.
Vegito , your thinking about seven weeks to be attributed correctly to Vilas .. is my thought .
As write that would not cause large gaps for Jimbo ... is my thought .

I just wanted to know if you were in contact with Vilas and Puppo ... because I asked you how I could find them.
 

Vegito

Hall of Fame
Vegito , your thinking about seven weeks to be attributed correctly to Vilas .. is my thought .
As write that would not cause large gaps for Jimbo ... is my thought .

I just wanted to know if you were in contact with Vilas and Puppo ... because I asked you how I could find them.
Ok. Try with the following directions! I contacted Puppo once via mail to buy the book of the History of Tennis in Argentina, there was an e-mail I think in the site of the book; I don´t see the mail there anymore; I don´t know if he uses still that mail and I don´t remember it because I deleted the messages; but in the site of the book you have the way to contact him via Twitter, Facebook, etc; he many times answer, I think specially in Twitter(he answered me a question once), here the social networks of Puppo:

https://www.instagram.com/epuppo/
https://twitter.com/puppotenis
https://www.facebook.com/eduardo.puppo.3

In the case of Vilas, he have a Twitter; he almost never answer; I think he have answered to some journalist; and in his Twitter account he mentions a Facebook site:

https://twitter.com/guillevilasok
https://www.facebook.com/Guillermo-Vilas-27835142123/

Do you want to ask them some questions?
 

Ciaron

Semi-Pro
Is it really going to make a difference ?
It won't financially ... Is it just to say "I was once world number 1" for a period .. I admit I didn't read all the posts so maybe I'm missing something
 

Vegito

Hall of Fame
Is it really going to make a difference ?
It won't financially ... Is it just to say "I was once world number 1" for a period .. I admit I didn't read all the posts so maybe I'm missing something
It´s for pride. He and many fans thinks he is the real number one of 1977 and that is absolutely unfair when sometimes they say "he was never number one"; then a journalist and a mathematician and physicist made an investigation looking for possible errors in the confection of the rankings in those years(not only for Vilas, for all the players); and they found that there were 7 weeks(5 in 1975 and 2 in 1976) in which Vilas would have appeared as number one if they updated the rankings. Also they found other things of other players but clearly the case of Vilas is the most important because it´s about a number one that was not recognized. ATP says just in those weeks the ranking was not published and that they can´t change the history; asked about the frequency which with the rankings had to be updated they answer "We don´t know"...

An archive of the rulebooks said:

"Separate singles and doubles rankings are calculated EVERY week in the ATP world headquarters in Dallas, Texas"

So it´s a fight, I believe for justice and for the number one that Vilas won fairly in the tennis court.

Vilas is a proud man and many times in interviews he mention all the things of the ranking system, everything he won in 1977, the Tennis Magazine that recognized like number one, etc... Curiously they found he really was ATP number one with that weird ranking system, but in 1975.
 

KG1965

Legend
Ok. Try with the following directions! I contacted Puppo once via mail to buy the book of the History of Tennis in Argentina, there was an e-mail I think in the site of the book; I don´t see the mail there anymore; I don´t know if he uses still that mail and I don´t remember it because I deleted the messages; but in the site of the book you have the way to contact him via Twitter, Facebook, etc; he many times answer, I think specially in Twitter(he answered me a question once), here the social networks of Puppo:

https://www.instagram.com/epuppo/
https://twitter.com/puppotenis
https://www.facebook.com/eduardo.puppo.3

In the case of Vilas, he have a Twitter; he almost never answer; I think he have answered to some journalist; and in his Twitter account he mentions a Facebook site:

https://twitter.com/guillevilasok
https://www.facebook.com/Guillermo-Vilas-27835142123/

Do you want to ask them some questions?
Do you want to ask them some questions?
No question , I would propose to Vilas to hear directly Connors .
They were good friends , Jimbo understands .
The request to Kermode must be made by Vilas & Connors IMHO .
I am convinced of this .
You are Argentinean , Argentine speak , write Argentinean , tries to convince Vilas & Puppo of this .
 
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KG1965

Legend
Ok. Try with the following directions! I contacted Puppo once via mail to buy the book of the History of Tennis in Argentina, there was an e-mail I think in the site of the book; I don´t see the mail there anymore; I don´t know if he uses still that mail and I don´t remember it because I deleted the messages; but in the site of the book you have the way to contact him via Twitter, Facebook, etc; he many times answer, I think specially in Twitter(he answered me a question once), here the social networks of Puppo:

https://www.instagram.com/epuppo/
https://twitter.com/puppotenis
https://www.facebook.com/eduardo.puppo.3

In the case of Vilas, he have a Twitter; he almost never answer; I think he have answered to some journalist; and in his Twitter account he mentions a Facebook site:

https://twitter.com/guillevilasok
https://www.facebook.com/Guillermo-Vilas-27835142123/

Do you want to ask them some questions?
In tennis have not happened blatant injustice in the course of the last century , no theft or robberies various titles as happened in other sports .

I can think of two injustices that should be arranged with time :
1 ) the number one ATP is so determined not to attribute to Vilas on the infamous seven weeks in which overcame Connors
2 ) the final ATP tournament , which ATP is determined not to be considered a winner and should be drawn.

The first one is ... unbearable, and injustice must be settled.
 

timnz

Legend
Since the rankings weren't published every week in the period Aug-73 to Dec-79 - was there any other player affected other than Vilas? My suspicion is that Borg would probably get more weeks at number 1 if a review of the rankings on a weekly basis was done for that period. Any other players affected?
 

Vegito

Hall of Fame
Since the rankings weren't published every week in the period Aug-73 to Dec-79 - was there any other player affected other than Vilas? My suspicion is that Borg would probably get more weeks at number 1 if a review of the rankings on a weekly basis was done for that period. Any other players affected?
Slasher published the investigation in other forum; what I´m sure is that Vilas is the only number one discovered in this review; at the beginning they though maybe Artur Ashe was number one some week/s but finally no.
 

Slasher1985

New User
Since the rankings weren't published every week in the period Aug-73 to Dec-79 - was there any other player affected other than Vilas? My suspicion is that Borg would probably get more weeks at number 1 if a review of the rankings on a weekly basis was done for that period. Any other players affected?
Hello. Yes other players were affected. There were no new players at number 1 besides Vilas, but Newcombe got 5 weeks instead of 8 in 1974 (in favor of Connors) and Borg got 2 weeks instead of 1 in 1977 (from Connors).
 

KG1965

Legend
Hello. Yes other players were affected. There were no new players at number 1 besides Vilas, but Newcombe got 5 weeks instead of 8 in 1974 (in favor of Connors) and Borg got 2 weeks instead of 1 in 1977 (from Connors).
Slasher .. something: you know NoMercy ?
If what I have written is funny ... not answer.
 

Vegito

Hall of Fame
Hello. Yes other players were affected. There were no new players at number 1 besides Vilas, but Newcombe got 5 weeks instead of 8 in 1974 (in favor of Connors) and Borg got 2 weeks instead of 1 in 1977 (from Connors).
Slasher. You say the rankings were not published in any of the weeks in which Vilas was number one? Maybe this newspaper was wrong, but just in case; if it would be useful for the trial.

This article-archive of a newspaper-in spanish talks about the ATP ranking of the second week of 1976; the article is from Sunday January 11, 1976 and says the ranking was published that day by the ATP. It says the average of Connors was 42,72 and the average of Vilas 42,52. Maybe that day the ATP published the rankings of December 1975 or the newspaper had a mistake or published the information late; although I´m sure I read an article of December 1975 in which they were already mentioning the ending-year ranking-I don´t find that article now, maybe it was in another newspaper- The title in spanish of this article says "Connors remains the number one." In the case that ATP published that day the rankings of Sunday January 11, or even if they published that day the rankings of 1975; then it´s a good argument to say they were showing Connors as number one in the moment in which Vilas was the number one!! All this in the case that it´s not a big mistake of the newspaper.

http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1976/01/11/pagina-26/1012793/pdf.html

Please guys check the veracity of this newspaper or show it; that in the case it would be useless.
 
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KG1965

Legend
Slasher. You say the rankings were not published in any of the weeks in which Vilas was number one? Maybe this newspaper was wrong, but just in case; if it would be useful for the trial.

This article-archive of a newspaper-in spanish talks about the ATP ranking of the second week of 1976; the article is from Sunday January 11, 1976 and says the ranking was published that day by the ATP. It says the average of Connors was 42,72 and the average of Vilas 42,52. Maybe that day the ATP published the rankings of December 1975 or the newspaper had a mistake or published the information late; although I´m sure I read an article of December 1975 in which they were already mentioning the ending-year ranking-I don´t find that article now, maybe it was in another newspaper- The title in spanish of this article says "Connors remains the number one." In the case that ATP published that day the rankings of Sunday January 11, or even if they published that day the rankings of 1975; then it´s a good argument to say they were showing Connors as number one in the moment in which Vilas was the number one!! All this in the case that it´s not a big mistake of the newspaper.

http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1976/01/11/pagina-26/1012793/pdf.html

Please guys check the veracity of this newspaper or show it; that in the case it would be useless.
Vegito you let me to intervene? what public EL MUNDO DEPORTIVO ( newspaper beautiful and reliable Spanish) through HEMEROTECA is the ranking of 31.12.1975 and is correct .
Vilas had been number one for several weeks during the September-November period + two weeks of January 1976 , then immediately after the 31.12.1975 .
 

Vegito

Hall of Fame
Vegito you let me to intervene? what public EL MUNDO DEPORTIVO ( newspaper beautiful and reliable Spanish) through HEMEROTECA is the ranking of 31.12.1975 and is correct .
Vilas had been number one for several weeks during the September-November period + two weeks of January 1976 , then immediately after the 31.12.1975 .
Yes. It´s just that the newspaper publish it a 11.01.1976 and says the ATP published the ranking that day; I was guessing the newspaper show the information late or the ATP "took his time" to elaborate the ranking. There was a ranking of 31.12.1975. I know there is one from 15.12.1975

Other thing. Slasher said in other forum that ATP published the rankings just before and after the periods in which Vilas was number one. That´s a scandal.
 
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KG1965

Legend
Yes. It´s just that the newspaper publish it a 11.01.1976 and says the ATP published the ranking that day; I was guessing the newspaper show the information late or the ATP "took his time" to elaborate the ranking. There was a ranking of 31.12.1975. I know there is one from 15.12.1975

Other thing. Slasher said in other forum that ATP published the rankings just before and after the periods in which Vilas was number one. That´s a scandal.
Slasher said in other forums That ATP published the rankings just before and after the periods in cui Vilas was number one . That's a Scandal .
I agree : IT'S A BIG SCANDAL !!!

Perhaps the biggest scandal if I exclude the legal war ATP v Connors in the years 1974-75
 

big ted

Hall of Fame
personally i don't know why he's taking them to court 40yrs later and what's the point, but that's just me. the tour was so screwed up back there could be 100 cases and trials to come out of that period.. Alot of time the tour was run more like the WWE back then.. some ppl say it would reduce connors weeks at no1 but if u asked connors personally i'm sure he wouldn't give two licks about it after this much time
 
Vilas should certainly be recognised as #1.

Then Murray would take his rightful (and dubious) place as the best male tennis player never to have reached the pinnacle of his sport.
 
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