Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
Here is what I am interested in. I always use dictation on my computer and on my phone. I can go weeks and even months without writing anything by hand. Am I very rare? Or are there a lot of people like me?

I thought I did a topic last night about this subject but I can't find it so maybe I was too tired and I forgot to post it. For many years now I have been teaching music students in a way where I prepare weekly summations of lessons and what I hope to get accomplished. I was already doing this entirely on the computer years ago. Then during COVID I started teaching online and if anything my dictation went up a great deal more.

Recently I found out that my ability to print and my ability to write cursive had degraded to the point where I really couldn't do either one anymore. Cursive was way worse. But my printing got really bad too. It's not a matter of coordination. When I write I can still do very neat handwriting but it's very slow because I'm so rusty. In an informal discussion with many people I have found out that what I am able to do and don't feel comfortable doing is very typical of young people who are constantly on their computers or on their phones and are not writing by hand anymore. What is your experience?
 
What dictation software and platform do you use?

Some advanced dictation programs can be trained to recognize interrogative inflection and distinguish between punctuation and actual words. For example, they can tell the difference between "?" and the phrase "question mark."

Have used the built in Windows dictation but it does not have these advanced features.
 
What dictation software and platform do you use?

Some advanced dictation programs can be trained to recognize interrogative inflection and distinguish between punctuation and actual words. For example, they can tell the difference between "?" and the phrase "question mark."

Have used the built in Windows dictation but it does not have these advanced features.
I'm using the same thing you're using. It is totally basic. I have to dictate some punctuation. I've thought about trying to get a really advanced program but our money is limited and there are other more important things we have to shell out money for. But using this basic system I've tested myself dictating as fast as close to 200 words per minute. For me that means that even if I have to make corrections I can get to corrections and finish the whole thing faster than I've ever been able to type in my life. I think basically even my basic dictation program is as fast as a court reporter. I don't mind making minor corrections.
 
I'm using the same thing you're using. It is totally basic. I have to dictate some punctuation. I've thought about trying to get a really advanced program but our money is limited and there are other more important things we have to shell out money for. But using this basic system I've tested myself dictating as fast as close to 200 words per minute. For me that means that even if I have to make corrections I can get to corrections and finish the whole thing faster than I've ever been able to type in my life. I think basically even my basic dictation program is as fast as a court reporter. I don't mind making minor corrections.

Did you make that post using dictation?
:unsure:
 
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Do you post here using dictation?
:unsure:
Always!!!

When I am teaching and preparing instructions for my students I dictate and then show them what I am dictating with a screen share. If I am texting someone and the other person is typing, no matter how fast that person types I am through and ready to move on in about half the time. For people who are slower it's more like being three or 4 times faster.
 
Always!!!

When I am teaching and preparing instructions for my students I dictate and then show them what I am dictating with a screen share. If I am texting someone and the other person is typing, no matter how fast that person types I am through and ready to move on in about half the time. For people who are slower it's more like being three or 4 times faster.

Hopefully we are quickly coming to the point where being a good typist is not all that important and completely optional. One can choose to use dictation.
 
Hopefully we are quickly coming to the point where being a good typist is not all that important and completely optional. One can choose to use dictation.
I've gone through so many stages. When I was young I hated typewriters because I made so many mistakes and there was no easy correction. For me typing this way was a disaster. Then I got a computer and early word processing. I was onboard immediately. Spell correction was a later godsend. With this system I taught myself how to type and actually got pretty fast. So when I discovered dictation for me it was just the next logical step because it is so much faster.

Some people are more in love with the process than the result. But I am very result oriented.
 
Here is what I am interested in. I always use dictation on my computer and on my phone. I can go weeks and even months without writing anything by hand. Am I very rare? Or are there a lot of people like me?

I thought I did a topic last night about this subject but I can't find it so maybe I was too tired and I forgot to post it. For many years now I have been teaching music students in a way where I prepare weekly summations of lessons and what I hope to get accomplished. I was already doing this entirely on the computer years ago. Then during COVID I started teaching online and if anything my dictation went up a great deal more.

Recently I found out that my ability to print and my ability to write cursive had degraded to the point where I really couldn't do either one anymore. Cursive was way worse. But my printing got really bad too. It's not a matter of coordination. When I write I can still do very neat handwriting but it's very slow because I'm so rusty. In an informal discussion with many people I have found out that what I am able to do and don't feel comfortable doing is very typical of young people who are constantly on their computers or on their phones and are not writing by hand anymore. What is your experience?
This is a very scary thing for society.

I have students (16-22) who can barely write legibly let along spell anything correctly. About 25% of my students are not readable, 30% is pretty brutal but readable, 30% is average, and 15% is good. It gets worse and worse. Eventually in about 20-30 years it will be very rare to see someone be able to write on paper at all.

Not only this, but it has been scientifically proven (proved in the classroom as well) that physical writing is much better then any type of digital option.

But it wont matter, it is going away for good in the near future.
 
This is a very scary thing for society.

I have students (16-22) who can barely write legibly let along spell anything correctly. About 25% of my students are not readable, 30% is pretty brutal but readable, 30% is average, and 15% is good. It gets worse and worse. Eventually in about 20-30 years it will be very rare to see someone be able to write on paper at all.

Not only this, but it has been scientifically proven (proved in the classroom as well) that physical writing is much better then any type of digital option.

But it wont matter, it is going away for good in the near future.
I hope you write better than you type...:)
 
I have students (16-22) who can barely write legibly let along spell anything correctly. About 25% of my students are not readable, 30% is pretty brutal but readable, 30% is average, and 15% is good. It gets worse and worse. Eventually in about 20-30 years it will be very rare to see someone be able to write on paper at all.
So what? People would have lamented once that no one would be able to carve hieroglyphics on walls in the near future.
 
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A great percentage of posters here cannot write coherently. An even greater percentage would flunk English 1A. The next time you hear a conversation, mentally count the number of times ‘like’ is said.
 
A great percentage of posters here cannot write coherently. An even greater percentage would flunk English 1A. The next time you hear a conversation, mentally count the number of times ‘like’ is said.

Speaking and writing are fundamentally different skills.
The evidence shows that frequent use of "like" in conversation, while annoying, does NOT correlate with poorer writing ability.
 
Still type better than any of them. Their typing is not good either.

The amount of "yo mr lleyton" emails I get is absurd.
I would say that if you can type properly you're good to go. Then it doesn't matter how you write.

What kind of teaching do you do? Are you in public school system? Are you teaching in a private school? A university?

If you are saying that it is a crisis in education then I entirely agree. What worked in the past is not working now and frankly I see no solutions for what is happening in our schools.

It seems to me that the potential for creative self education is unlimited. But very few are taking advantage of those possibilities.
 
Speaking and writing are fundamentally different skills.
You also have to differentiate between speaking without a script and speaking with a script. I remember that Barack Obama always sounded so smooth on his teleprompter. But whenever he was interviewed, his way of speaking was much less smooth with lots of pauses.

For me spelling has gotten much worse when I have to write from scratch. At any moment I can forget how any word is spelled. But when I am reading the text of other people I generally instantly catch mistakes. For me my brain is very accurate when reading complete words in context. Building those words when I write is much more difficult. This means that my accuracy in producing text is higher than it's ever been in my life. But if I were back to using only paper and pencil or pen, then my life would become very difficult.
 
If we are discussing creative writing, there may be a strong case for typing or handwriting combined with dictation.
Hemingway today would likely not use pure dictation. The physical process of writing or typing will pace your thoughts and encourage deeper reflection.
 
I would say that if you can type properly you're good to go. Then it doesn't matter how you write.

What kind of teaching do you do? Are you in public school system? Are you teaching in a private school? A university?

If you are saying that it is a crisis in education then I entirely agree. What worked in the past is not working now and frankly I see no solutions for what is happening in our schools.

It seems to me that the potential for creative self education is unlimited. But very few are taking advantage of those possibilities.
Well, for mathematics and engineering, handwriting is still really important.

I teach grades 11 & 12 and several university classes.

Yes, self educating is one of the most important tools in education and life. It also has almost completely disappeared. Frankly, I am at a loss of what to do at times, but I teach all upper level classes where the students have natural ability and usually choose to be in my classes.

I can not imagine (although I hear the stories), what teachers are going through at the lower and younger aged levels. I can tell you this, whatever we are doing as an education system is failing. That said, I am not sure what we should do.

Students are just as smart as they have ever been (my data shows that), but they have lost common sense, effort, focus, miss school more than ever, entitled, and lack basic skills. I will say, I noticed the change immediately after Covid, and it just never returned back to normal.
 
Still type better than any of them. Their typing is not good either.

The amount of "yo mr lleyton" emails I get is absurd.
That made me lough. By the way, you don’t use apostrophe because you can’t be bothered. Can you really blame the kids?
 
That made me lough. By the way, you don’t use apostrophe because you can’t be bothered. Can you really blame the kids?
Apostrophes are not real. I have zero respect for them.

Many say this generation is the worst generation ever. Many also say that every generation says this. Maybe because each generation is the worse and we keep getting worse and worse?
 
Apostrophes are not real. I have zero respect for them.

Many say this generation is the worst generation ever. Many also say that every generation says this. Maybe because each generation is the worse and we keep getting worse and worse?
I don’t know what that means but it seems to me that you like to make up your own rules and stand by them.

I think it’s a matter of perspective as every generation tends to think that way as you also mentioned above. As in, the past is always better than the present etc. I don’t think it’s getting worse but I do think things are changing in different directions for better or worse.

Old values are just becoming obsolete as they are being replaced by new values whether we like it or not.
 
Well, for mathematics and engineering, handwriting is still really important.
My question is whether or not cursive is important. All of the people that I have talked to have different ideas about that.
I am at a loss of what to do at times, but I teach all upper level classes where the students have natural ability and usually choose to be in my classes.
Do you enjoy teaching?.
I can not imagine (although I hear the stories), what teachers are going through at the lower and younger aged levels. I can tell you this, whatever we are doing as an education system is failing. That said, I am not sure what we should do.
I think we are in some kind of weird transition from what our old model was to what it could possibly become in the future. I work entirely one on one and the students I work with are interested in what I teach. That is a very different thing from teaching in a classroom. I could not do that.
Students are just as smart as they have ever been (my data shows that), but they have lost common sense, effort, focus, miss school more than ever, entitled, and lack basic skills. I will say, I noticed the change immediately after Covid, and it just never returned back to normal.
I notice with my young students that they don't seem to be learning anything in school. This is rather shocking to me because they do very well in what I teach. I assume from this that they are perfectly capable of learning well in these other areas but simply are not being well taught.
 
My question is whether or not cursive is important. All of the people that I have talked to have different ideas about that.
Probably not, but sometimes learning for learnings sake is a good thing and helps overall penmanship which is much needed considering how awful it has gotten.
Do you enjoy teaching?.
Yes and no. If you asked this 5-10 years ago I would have said yes. Covid really damaged the youth and the education system in general. I do not see it returning or getting better. I hear the younger kids are struggling even more. Every year the kids feel younger and less capable.

But I do enjoy my university professorship as those students are literally paying to be there and are invested. Still though, they lack certain skills that in the past would have been learned in grade school.
I think we are in some kind of weird transition from what our old model was to what it could possibly become in the future. I work entirely one on one and the students I work with are interested in what I teach. That is a very different thing from teaching in a classroom. I could not do that.
One on one, my students do very well. Not really an option very often though, with our class sizes of 30 plus. So the answer might lie somewhere in that. However, I am not so sure we are in the transition stage, but the final stage until something completely different takes place. This is not a retool but a rebuild at this point.
I notice with my young students that they don't seem to be learning anything in school. This is rather shocking to me because they do very well in what I teach. I assume from this that they are perfectly capable of learning well in these other areas but simply are not being well taught.
They learn. In fact, most of my students (I do have the top students) are in the 99 percentile of the country. Problem is, they do not RETAIN. Which is kind of the point. I have my 17 then 18 year olds back to back years and I know I taught it to them, I know they aced it, and yet they dont remember it anymore.

That was not always the case.

My number one concern is students not being able to retain the information they have mastered. Within a few weeks or months they essentially brain dump everything. I have tried a few things, but I am at a loss of how to fix it right now.
 
Probably not, but sometimes learning for learnings sake is a good thing and helps overall penmanship which is much needed considering how awful it has gotten.
Once again I'm not sure whether you're talking about script or printing. Just yesterday I asked an 18 year old music student what he does in writing and he showed me a little bit of his writing. He says it's awful and it really didn't look very good. But since I am teaching him music I am interested in what he is able to do with the things I am teaching him and his work is excellent.

He says that he is allowed to use his laptop in class to type but he is not allowed to record because there is some kind of rule against it. I don't know what or why that is.
Yes and no. If you asked this 5-10 years ago I would have said yes. Covid really damaged the youth and the education system in general. I do not see it returning or getting better. I hear the younger kids are struggling even more. Every year the kids feel younger and less capable.
Because of the nature of my work, I teach students of all ages. Right now my youngest student is 8. My oldest student is 85. Working one on one is a totally different experience and much more rewarding. I started teaching at around 18 so I have been doing this 58 years. When people study music they do so because of a personal passion rather than because it is a requirement. So what I am teaching and how I am teaching it is basically the same as when I started. But because of technology I think everyone learns faster and better. When I started out I wrote music by hand. It was extremely slow. Now with modern music programs I do the same thing I do here with the English language. I can produce music about 100 times better and it is completely easy to read. So I am 100% involved with modern technology. Because I now teach online there is never a reason for me to write anything by hand. So my exploration of handwriting of all kinds is simply a personal project coming from curiosity. But I do believe it improves the mind.

My interest in dictation is because it is faster and I make fewer mistakes. If I were typing this message would be about 1/4th as long.
But I do enjoy my university professorship as those students are literally paying to be there and are invested. Still though, they lack certain skills that in the past would have been learned in grade school.
In my experience younger people also have skills that we didn't have. I often get useful technological suggestions from them about how to make things work better on the computer. I remember years ago seeing a student typing on a phone with two thumbs at a speed that absolutely amazed me. The skill is probably decreasing now because many young people are dictating on their phone as I do.
One on one, my students do very well. Not really an option very often though, with our class sizes of 30 plus. So the answer might lie somewhere in that. However, I am not so sure we are in the transition stage, but the final stage until something completely different takes place. This is not a retool but a rebuild at this point.
I absolutely despise the idea of being in a class of 30. Not only do I teach one on one, I want to learn that way. I don't want to be one of many. I think this is what needs to change in the future. The last time I was in a class was for language when I was learning German. I went back to a classroom situation because I felt like there were things that I needed to know that I had not learned. But I was already able to speak to some extent and I could read books.

I went back to a beginning class just to make sure that I had everything in place. What I saw was very disappointing and that was something like 35 years ago. The rest of the students were only there because of a language requirement, and none of them knew anything. By the end of the year we were down to something like 10 people and that was better. Even so the only other student who knew anything was a girl from Argentina who already spoke German in a high school and was there only to fulfill a language requirement. So when you talk about the ignorance of young people, my view that has really always been about the same. The only difference is where the ignorance is keep shifts to, and it is always in different areas.
My number one concern is students not being able to retain the information they have mastered. Within a few weeks or months they essentially brain dump everything. I have tried a few things, but I am at a loss of how to fix it right now.
When people don't retain things it is because what they are learning is not important to them. I find that when people are self-motivated they learn just as well as they did in the past. I don't know what you teach but I would say that that's the number one problem.

Sometimes parents want their children to learn music because they think it will be good for them. That never works unless a child switches over and becomes interested in music for its own sake. When I was in school I frankly did not give a damn about most anything I was learning. I just went to school because it was a requirement and I was smart enough to do well enough without much effort. The only thing I excelled at was music because that was my passion, and everything I have learned about learning in life has come from how I learned music.

When I am working with young people, I tell them that sports and music are two of the rare things that you can't cram for. You have to build patiently and you have to do the work on a daily basis. I think this is why athletes and musicians figure out early that everything has to build slowly. If I get a musician who is also passionate about at least one sport, then I know everything is going to work. But in school everything is about grades. Later on in life you find out that this was all wrong and for many people it's too damn late.
 
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I teach Engineering based physics, calculus, and statistics.

He says that he is allowed to use his laptop in class to type but he is not allowed to record because there is some kind of rule against it. I don't know what or why that is.

To be honest I dont mind it, but I also see why they do not allow it. Nobody wants to be recorded while they work, especially when things can be taken out of context. However, it is becoming the new norm. With AI, it wont be long till they can edit and do fishy things with those recordings too. But that is a whole different story.
In my experience younger people also have skills that we didn't have. I often get useful technological suggestions from them about how to make things work better on the computer. I remember years ago seeing a student typing on a phone with two thumbs at a speed that absolutely amazed me. The skill is probably decreasing now because many young people are dictating on their phone as I do.
To be honest, I feel the opposite. I usually am the one troubleshooting or showing my students how to do something. I think you are right, but I think the ages 30-50 are better in technology, but not necessarily the new kids. They might understand the tech better, but they are not good at solving problems that arise.
When people don't retain things it is because what they are learning is not important to them. I find that when people are self-motivated they learn just as well as they did in the past. I don't know what you teach but I would say that that's the number one problem.
Yes. Motivation is gone for most students, however, it was not always present to begin with. At least not self motivation. There used to be an outside motivation. Students were motivated by grades, or fear of getting in trouble, or some outside force other than learning.

Just like the rich get richer and poor get poorer... the smart get smarter and the low students get lower. For this, I do have data that shows this is fact.
 
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