Does 1hbh have the body (waist) rotation during the drive?

[scott_home]

I am a 3.5 and 4.0 player working on my topspin 1hbh. A lot of instructional videos on youtube show the shoulder turn, step in and hit through the ball with zero/minimal body rotation when starting the racket drive. It is all arm and shoulder. But the pros seem to have some body rotation when they sweep the racket from behind to the front. I believe it may generate more power.

What is your thought on the body rotation?

Also, at the moment of ball contact, is the elbow locked or slightly bent?

Scott

 

[Lance L]

I definitely have some body rotation on the drive 1hbh. My left arm stays bent and near my side and my body rotates as I swing. When the stoke is finished I've pretty much rotated so I'm facing forward.
Elbow is bent about 90 degrees at takeback(racquet head is quite high) and then straight at contact. In fact, that set up is the key for me developing a drive 1hbh. That pendullum motion what the breakthrough I needed.
The video above, the straight arm takeback is what I always tried and never worked for me.
Slice 1hbh, I have the classic swing, left arm goes back as a counter balance and little shoulder turn.

 

[10isMaestro]

1. At contact, your arm should be extended, but not hyperextended;
2. It does seem that some pros do not observe the classical rule of keeping it sideways. However, as it is hard enough to control as it is, I suggest you give up a tad of potential power for consistency and accuracy -- unless, of course, you already mastered the basics.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I don't hit a topspin 1hbh as my main shot, but I can hit it decently (but not nearly as well as my 2hbh).
My understanding.... ignoring for the moment the degree to which my upper body rotates:
* In general I want to keep the racquet face path in line with the incoming ball for as long as possible... (eg. hit through 3 balls analogy), to maximize the chance for a clean contact.
* By adding additional body rotation (past perpendicular to baseline), adds power/spin at the cost of risking a mishit (eg. your racquet leaves the path of the incoming ball sooner, as it completes it's curve)
* the extreme would be a full body rotation (think of when you're trying to hit a dead ball as far as you can)
* So when I hit my 1hbh, I probably turn somewhere my upper body around 30-45degrees, to get a balance of power, and decent window to make solid contact
- to this end, i throw my left arm back to prevent over rotating (eg. to throttle how much I'm spinning, which would leave a much smaller window to hit the ball)
my $0.02

 

[Chas Tennis]

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...and-waht-force-to-start-forward-swing.462997/

See the posts on Gasquet near the end of this thread for how to hit a one hand backhand. See also the posts on Lopez for how not to hit a 1hbh. Study the videos.

See this post and look at the backhand video for Wawrinka discussed. Interesting hip rotation is shown in the video as discussed. Is it typical or only for a running backhand to the backhand side?
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...-the-one-handed-backhand.551771/#post-9918839

 

[racket king]

What is your thought on the body rotation?

Try turning your shoulders without turning your waist and see how much power you generate

You have to the unlock and rotate the hips. It's a key source of power. Legs, hips, upper body rotation, shoulder, and arm. If you look at Stan, he rotates his hips more than any of them. It's no coincidence, he has the biggest one handers out there.

YouTube videos are all very and good but they should be viewed within a coaching context. In isolation, they can lead you astray unless you're very clear about what you're looking for.

 

[fuzz nation]

What is your thought on the body rotation?

Also, at the moment of ball contact, is the elbow locked or slightly bent?

For a one-hander, I prefer the thought of using a relatively straight elbow, but not a "locked" elbow. This could be just an issue of semantics, but the idea of a locked elbow makes me think of more muscle tension. That's not a good thing when trying to foster a natural, flowing stroke with decent speed because too much muscle tension will kill that looseness and freedom to effectively swing well. I sometimes address this issue of tension when coaching players to use appropriate grip pressure. It's typically easier to generate better racquet speed when we can avoid "gorilla gripping" the racquet handle.

I think that a straight elbow makes for a more predictable swing path and that should enable better consistency. I'd also expect a one-hander including a mildly bent elbow to be susceptible to too much racquet manipulation or "steering" with the elbow and forearm. That means more risk for irritation and injury.

I don't look to actively rotate my torso through the actual forward stroke of the racquet so much, but I try to rotate my hips and shoulders into my right side to set up the leverage I want when I swing the racquet. This rotation immediately precedes my swing through the ball.

This is a little difficult to describe, but I can absolutely feel the difference in the presence of that leverage when taking some different practice strokes. If I take a few by driving onto my right foot before I swing (I'm a righty), I can feel a huge difference in the degree of leverage compared with trying to take the same practice stroke while standing on my left foot. That left-footed swing doesn't allow me to rotate or "set" into my right side before swinging the racquet.

I wouldn't be surprised to see my torso rotating to the right a little bit during my swing if I watched a video of my stroke, but I know that I do it much more deliberately when I hit a two-hander. One-hander: body rotation sets up the swing. Two-hander: body rotation drives the swing.

 

[Fxanimator1]

I wouldn't be surprised to see my torso rotating to the right a little bit during my swing if I watched a video of my stroke, but I know that I do it much more deliberately when I hit a two-hander. One-hander: body rotation sets up the swing. Two-hander: body rotation drives the swing.

Why not just take a video of your backhand and alleviate speculation? Heck, post it up on here for us to see.

 

[Chas Tennis]

....................................................

I don't look to actively rotate my torso through the actual forward stroke of the racquet so much, but I try to rotate my hips and shoulders into my right side to set up the leverage I want when I swing the racquet. This rotation immediately precedes my swing through the ball.

This is a little difficult to describe, but I can absolutely feel the difference in the presence of that leverage when taking some different practice strokes. If I take a few by driving onto my right foot before I swing (I'm a righty), I can feel a huge difference in the degree of leverage compared with trying to take the same practice stroke while standing on my left foot. That left-footed swing doesn't allow me to rotate or "set" into my right side before swinging the racquet.

I wouldn't be surprised to see my torso rotating to the right a little bit during my swing if I watched a video of my stroke, but I know that I do it much more deliberately when I hit a two-hander. One-hander: body rotation sets up the swing. Two-hander: body rotation drives the swing.

Here are some frames illustrating a super backhand by Wawrinka. I believe that the last step slows down the right hip and is one reason that the pelvis turns in the frames shown.

30 fps video should be fast enough to show it if the motion blur is small.

Wawrinka backhand. At about 36 sec there is a replay of the final backhand in slow motion.

I downloaded the video using DownloadHelper and viewed single frame using Quicktime.

There is probably a lot of variety with footwork on the backhand as players may move to the shot running or be there waiting when the ball comes. Footwork might also vary for ball height.

Wawrinka was moving to his left to reach the ball. For the last backhand shot, he seems to step with right leg, and plant the right foot. The planted foot slows the right hip with reduced motion after that. Muscles of right leg slowing body. ?

Frame #1. Backhand winner. First frame with foot in full contact with the court. The shoulder are turned fully back stretching the trunk muscles. Left foot is in contact with the ground. Left hip not visible. Red reference lines for court side line, heel, and right buttock (to indicate right hip location).

Frame #2. Near impact. The hips, left forward, trunk and shoulders have turned. Red reference line added for a black background feature on the stands. There may be a scale change between Frame #1 and #2.

Best to view the video and look for the points discussed.

The left leg is probably supplying force between frame #1 & #2, but that is not clear. The left hip can be seen to turn forward relative to the slowed right hip. Does the left hip turn forward from left leg forces or momentum from running? This pelvis turn may stretch some trunk muscles as the shoulders turn independently from the hips. Was there upward leg thrust on the left leg. ?

For the last backhand it looks as if the right foot was planted and the right leg slows the hip. The left leg might produce forces while still in contact with the ground that turn the pelvis. ? Is that how you would see it?

1/17/2016 -- Examined the two frames shown and edited the post because there was some forward motion of the right hip after the foot was planed.

 

[GregSV]

I set up a thread about this (to rotate or not to rotate) a year ago:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...-one-handed-backhand-and-hip-rotation.524705/

I think the consensus was that once you have a consistent classic 1hbh (staying sideways), you can start opening up more bit by bit, but more in a manner of 'letting it happen' than consciously rotating.

 

[RanchDressing]

You should always drive with the hips on your groundies.

Or is Wawrinka's backhand no good?

 

[MasturB]

Wawrinka and Federer have two different 1HBH's. I'd argue Federer's backhand is more efficient since he doesn't muscle the backhands as much as Wawrinka.

Federer probably doesn't get the MPH's Wawrinka does, but I'd argue a few MPH less in the same location is more efficient.

I admire both. Mechanically speaking there are slight differences in weight transfer.

Driving your hips isn't a necessity. Wawrinka uses more hips than Federer. Federer uses more shoulder rotation.

 

[dominikk1985]

there is some Body turn but it is much less important than with the two hander. wawrinka rotates a ton and has his arm stretched more across the Body almost like a Baseball Player has his front arm while hitting but that is not the only style to succeed. there are also ATP Players who only have a very small turn and stay more sideways with the arm more away from the chest and more out front of the Body.

ideally a turn can add power but a good contact Point out front, Balance and a good free swing for the shoulder is more important.

stan hits almost like this but only with the top Hand.

 

[GregSV]

Wawrinka and Federer have two different 1HBH's. I'd argue Federer's backhand is more efficient since he doesn't muscle the backhands as much as Wawrinka.

Federer probably doesn't get the MPH's Wawrinka does, but I'd argue a few MPH less in the same location is more efficient.

I admire both. Mechanically speaking there are slight differences in weight transfer.

Driving your hips isn't a necessity. Wawrinka uses more hips than Federer. Federer uses more shoulder rotation.

Federers is the old school backhand, Wawrinka's is the future backhand. Speaking for myself, I have one foot in the past, one in the future.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Heads Up - Federer Hit Strong Backhands in his 1st Round AO Match

In Federer's first Australian Open match, he hit some especially strong one hand backhands. Some were getting Oos and Aahs from the crowd and commentators. One backhand was measured at 93 MPH. The slow motion video after the BH was pretty good. I am wondering if he has improved his backhand in the last 2 years?

If you notice anything about his backhand drives or hear comments about his backhand, please post.

 

[geca]

the right answer is - it depends.

when you have time to set up, you can add more hip/core rotation for more power.. the arm swing plane can be a little flatter so the shoulder opens up.

however, when you don't have much time, or you are pulled wide to the backhand side and try to go cross court, it's much easier to let the arm swing go a little steeper towards the back of the neck (instead of towards the back of the right shoulder). this will allow the arm to fly thru quickly, without the need for much more effort to turn the hip/core around.

people often use Wawrinka as an example of how much open-up there is in a 1hbh... I think it's not something most amateurs can copy.. who has the kind of leg/core strength that he has... the guy is an stanimal!