Does 2019 RG Federer beat everyone at RG 2024?

jl809

Hall of Fame
Observe 37 year old UPS delivery driver Roger Federer here, in what I think is one of his most underrated clay runs ever




Observe the quality of the movement for an old man, the height and heaviness of the forehand, and the touch at the net.

If said 37 year old turned up at RG 2024 and displayed the level he showed IRL (especially in non-hurricane conditions), how far would he have got? Given the nerves and physical issues shown by Sinneraz towards the conclusion of the tournament, and how Zved struggled against various folk throughout the tournament… who’m’st’vmdve could have beaten him?
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Observe 37 year old UPS delivery driver Roger Federer here, in what I think is one of his most underrated clay runs ever




Observe the quality of the movement for an old man, the height and heaviness of the forehand, and the touch at the net.

If said 37 year old turned up at RG 2024 and displayed the level he showed IRL (especially in non-hurricane conditions), how far would he have got? Given the nerves and physical issues shown by Sinneraz towards the conclusion of the tournament, and how Zved struggled against various folk throughout the tournament… who’m’st’vmdve could have beaten him?
Alcaraz might outlast him physically, might...
 
The amazing thing about Federer is that even when his movement was compromised like Nadal’s is right now and Djokovic’s has been this year, he can still win because of his once in a lifetime racket talent. He played well enough to win Wimbledon, which he should have done, out playing the two other greatest players ever even at almost 38 years of age with compromised movement.
 
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nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
No. He won't beat 2019 RG Thiem who is on par with Zverev 2024.

This is ridiculous comparison. Federer lost very badly to Nadal.
 

jl809

Hall of Fame
No. He won't beat 2019 RG Thiem who is on par with Zverev 2024.

This is ridiculous comparison. Federer lost very badly to Nadal.
2019 Fed had MPs against Thiem in their clay match just weeks before RG, and at RG itself, 2019 Thiem is wayyyy better than 2024 Zverev, who dropped muggy sets vs Rune and Talon and was getting beaten by Ruud pre stomach problems

Besides losing in straights in a near hurricane against probably the greatest wind player of all time (and the clay GOAT ofc) isn’t much to get beaten up about imo
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Not that I disagree with you, but if that's the bar then there's no difference. Everyone in the 2024 draw would lose badly to that 2019 Nadal, Alcaraz included.
No idea. This is big assumption..

I see players Nadal faced before semis as pure pathetic. can't compare them to sinner alcaraz and Zverev in 2024.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
2019 Fed had MPs against Thiem in their clay match just weeks before RG, and at RG itself, 2019 Thiem is wayyyy better than 2024 Zverev, who dropped muggy sets vs Rune and Talon and was getting beaten by Ruud pre stomach problems

Besides losing in straights in a near hurricane against probably the greatest wind player of all time (and the clay GOAT ofc) isn’t much to get beaten up about imo
Yes in Madrid

Madrid has elevation of 2000+ feet. It's not the same as RG.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru

Madrid is not same as other clay big titles. That's why alcaraz was doubted till Sunday if he can deliver. He had 2 Madrid titles but not reached a final at any of the other big tournaments.

Federer coming close to beating Thiem in Madrid should be looked with more scrutiny.
 

RS

Bionic Poster

Madrid is not same as other clay big titles. That's why alcaraz was doubted till Sunday if he can deliver. He had 2 Madrid titles but not reached a final at any of the other big tournaments.

Federer coming close to beating Thiem in Madrid should be looked with more scrutiny.
Thiem would have won in 4 or 5 if they played at RG
 

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
No idea. This is big assumption..

I see players Nadal faced before semis as pure pathetic. can't compare them to sinner alcaraz and Zverev in 2024.
Why pre-semis? We saw what he did in the SF and F. You think if he faced 2024 Alcaraz and Zverev in the 1st week then he's losing?
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Thiem would have won in 4 or 5 if they played at RG
Maybe. But he would have won surely. Thiem owned Federer big time by 2019. And that's why I don't see fed winning in 2019 even in absence of Nadal.

He couldn't beat Djokovic either on clay. This is no fantasy land. It's 2019 Federer, the neo backhand or whatever propaganda was fed that time. He had zero safety left in the shots.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Why pre-semis? We saw what he did in the SF and F. You think if he faced 2024 Alcaraz and Zverev in the 1st week then he's losing?
We comparing Nadal 2019 vs the field or fed 2019

I said nadal's pre semis opponent were pure trash and then you are left with just fed and Thiem. He destroyed fed. Who also got benefit of the wind. Nadal would have made it so painful defeat. He had 16 break chances.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
2024 alcaraz would give Nadal more trouble than 2019 Thiem and Federer.

And maybe sinner to some extent as well but he has fitness issues. Zverev I see is matchup wise an issue for Nadal but not grave issue. Still zverev is playing probably equal to Thiem 2019 right now.
 

Krish0608

G.O.A.T.
I really think so. Federer played at an insanely high level that tournament. It’s an absolute shame that the semi against Rafa was played in horrendous conditions otherwise he would have taken a set there I believe. Federer would have liked his chances against anybody in this edition of RG.
 
I looked up Nadal's RG draws to see who he faced in the first five rounds in 2019, and then scrolled down to his earlier draws, and I see that Martin Klizan - one of the few players to win a set against Nadal at Roland Garros, when he won the opening set of their match in 2013 - is making a comeback after playing one match between Wimbledon 2021 and the start of 2024. He's 34 now but has won four futures events and is back in the top 500. With that said, in the two challengers that he played, he didn't win a main draw match - he qualified successfully for one of them, but then lost in round 1.
 
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The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
2024 alcaraz would give Nadal more trouble than 2019 Thiem and Federer.

And maybe sinner to some extent as well but he has fitness issues. Zverev I see is matchup wise an issue for Nadal but not grave issue. Still zverev is playing probably equal to Thiem 2019 right now.
Based on what? He got pushed to 5 sets by The Sinner and Zedrot who were playing at a lower level than either of them. And Zedrot himself got pushed to 5 sets by Griekspor and Rune.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
The extreme wind died down in the middle of the match and Rafa roasted Federer from there onwards. Yes wind is bad in general for people against nadal but its not bad for someone like federer who is close to 38 and going to be ultra aggressive anyway.
 

SonnyT

Legend
C'mon, Federer's worst surface ever was clay. He would be owned by Carlos and Jannike!

Now, if the surface was shifted to grass, then Federer was probably best ever at 38.
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
(yawn)... Another pointless, ridiculous, boring hypothetical thread. Some days I think this forum should be called the OCD forum,:)
 

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
Something much more interesting to me than this boring rehash of a thread we've seen about 150,000 times previously came out of it. I looked up Nadal's RG draws to see who he faced in the first five rounds in 2019, and then scrolled down to his earlier draws, and I see that Martin Klizan - one of the few players to win a set against Nadal at Roland Garros, when he won the opening set of their match in 2013 - is making a comeback after playing one match between Wimbledon 2021 and the start of 2024. He's 34 now but has won four futures events and is back in the top 500. With that said, in the two challengers that he played, he didn't win a main draw match - he qualified successfully for one of them, but then lost in round 1.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt. Please continue with version #567,341 of who would win between Peak Anakin Skywalker if he didn't become Darth Vader but were suffering from an injury and post-prime, post-peak, but pre-death Sauron.
These posts make no sense to me. If people are going to complain about hypothetical threads (this scenario hasn’t been done before) why even bother to post in them? If you don’t like a thread topic just move on. That’s what I do if I see a thread I don’t like. There’s no need to derail it, and rain on everyone else’s good time.
 

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
To be honest it’s very possible. People are discounting the form Fed actually brought that tournament. He beat Wawrinka with a really nice level.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
C'mon, Federer's worst surface ever was clay. He would be owned by Carlos and Jannike!

Now, if the surface was shifted to grass, then Federer was probably best ever at 38.
Agree about first half. The way to look at things rightly.

Fed skipped clay 2017/2018 and almost clay 2016 as well due to injury. Even before that he was routined by player like Gulbis in RG
2019 he played well vs very low ranked players though. Didn't lose a set but look at the guys
Sonego ranked 74
Otte ranked 144
Ruud ranked 63
Mayer ranked 68
Finally a seeded player at QF in Wawrinka. Wawrinka in 2019 was not the same guy as 2017 when he made finals of RG. He had 1 final between 2017 RG and 2019 match vs Fed. In Rotterdam, where he lost to Monfils. Wawrinka was ranked 28 before that tournament and had slipped up big time due to injuries.
 
These posts make no sense to me. If people are going to complain about hypothetical threads (this scenario hasn’t been done before) why even bother to post in them? If you don’t like a thread topic just move on. That’s what I do if I see a thread I don’t like. There’s no need to derail it, and rain on everyone else’s good time.

Okay, fine. Here is an edit of my previous post without the snark (I've also taken it out of the previous post):

"I looked up Nadal's RG draws to see who he faced in the first five rounds in 2019, and then scrolled down to his earlier draws, and I see that Martin Klizan - one of the few players to win a set against Nadal at Roland Garros, when he won the opening set of their match in 2013 - is making a comeback after playing one match between Wimbledon 2021 and the start of 2024. He's 34 now but has won four futures events and is back in the top 500. With that said, in the two challengers that he played, he didn't win a main draw match - he qualified successfully for one of them, but then lost in round 1."

Now, to me, that is a very interesting thing. Martin Klizan is one of the lower-ranked players I often kept half an eye on and whose results I'd look up from time to time. And that's why I posted about him. Hadn't heard anything about him in a while - because he was out of action for the second half of 2021 and all of 2022 and 2023.

To answer your question: I suppose I added the snarky opening and closing comments because I was frustrated with myself for posting in a hypothetical thread! Obviously I don't really find them as boring as all that, or I wouldn't have gone from reading posts about Nadal's draw in RG 2019 to looking up his draw in RG 2019 and from there scrolling down on the ATP website to his draw in RG 2013. But I do wish we had more discussion of some lower-ranked players than we do. And I do think that hypothetical discussions of who would win X against Y are as common as they are because of video games.
 

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
Griekspoor and Rune are both seeded players.

Either of whom? Federer and Thiem ?
Who cares? Zedrot and Timmy were both in the top 10 in USO 2020 F and that was one of the worst GS Fs of all time. Clownfils and Joker were also in the top 10 of the 2016 USO SF and that match was arguably even worse. Just because a player is ranked at a certain position doesn’t mean they’re playing up to that ranking.

And yes, Timmy and Ol’ Rog played at a higher level than The Sinner and Zedrot.
 

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
Okay, fine. Here is an edit of my previous post without the snark (I've also taken it out of the previous post):

"I looked up Nadal's RG draws to see who he faced in the first five rounds in 2019, and then scrolled down to his earlier draws, and I see that Martin Klizan - one of the few players to win a set against Nadal at Roland Garros, when he won the opening set of their match in 2013 - is making a comeback after playing one match between Wimbledon 2021 and the start of 2024. He's 34 now but has won four futures events and is back in the top 500. With that said, in the two challengers that he played, he didn't win a main draw match - he qualified successfully for one of them, but then lost in round 1."

Now, to me, that is a very interesting thing. Martin Klizan is one of the lower-ranked players I often kept half an eye on and whose results I'd look up from time to time. And that's why I posted about him. Hadn't heard anything about him in a while - because he was out of action for the second half of 2021 and all of 2022 and 2023.

To answer your question: I suppose I added the snarky opening and closing comments because I was frustrated with myself for posting in a hypothetical thread! Obviously I don't really find them as boring as all that, or I wouldn't have gone from reading posts about Nadal's draw in RG 2019 to looking up his draw in RG 2019 and from there scrolling down on the ATP website to his draw in RG 2013. But I do wish we had more discussion of some lower-ranked players than we do. And I do think that hypothetical discussions of who would win X against Y are as common as they are because of video games.
Fair enough, I think a big reason hypothetical matches are so common is because it’s a great way to discuss an event that’s just concluded. There’s a lot of downtime in between events in tennis. And unfortunately a byproduct of the Big 3 era is that due to the schlem race basically all the smaller events gets glossed over.
 

Pheasant

Legend
Federer didn't have the wheels in 2019. The dude was 3 months shy of turning 38. He might score an upset or two in 2024. But there's no way that he has enough gas in the tank to win the FO in 2024. He'd get beaten in the QF of 2024 FO; maybe reach a semi if he's lucky.

I was pleasantly surprised to see him make these semis in 2019. That was a fantastic result.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Who cares? Zedrot and Timmy were both in the top 10 in USO 2020 F and that was one of the worst GS Fs of all time. Clownfils and Joker were also in the top 10 of the 2016 USO SF and that match was arguably even worse. Just because a player is ranked at a certain position doesn’t mean they’re playing up to that ranking.

And yes, Timmy and Ol’ Rog played at a higher level than The Sinner and Zedrot.
No point talking to you then because you think ranking doesn't count anymore.
 
Fair enough, I think hypothetical matches are so common is because it’s a great way to discuss an event that’s just concluded. There’s a lot of downtime in between events in tennis. And unfortunately a by product of the Big 3 era is that due to the schlem race basically all the smaller events gets glossed over.

Yes, that's very true. In a private chat, earlier today another poster bemoaned how boring this week is compared to last. Meanwhile, I've been posting to that chat random updates about Humbert beating Fils on the latter's 20th birthday, about Nakashima's victory over Eubanks suggesting that Eubanks might well be about to drop a long way in the rankings, and about Mpetshi Perricard saving eight out of eight break points against Musetti only to lose in two 9-7 tiebreaks!

When I was a high schooler (from 92-96), I used to watch so much of these minor events.
 

fedfan24

Hall of Fame
I think he does. He would abuse Alcaraz return position all day and go to town on that serve. He might break down physically but he could get it done in 4.
 

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
Federer probably lifts the trophy but I give Alcaraz a good chance and Zverev if he caught Roger in the first week somehow.
 
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