Does anyone else feel that Federer just doesn't respect Murray's game that much?

JeMar

Legend
Now, I'm a Federer fan, but I can also appreciate the special talent that Murray brings on to the court. He's a great retriever, can come up with some beautiful shots on the run, and he knows how to work a point. However, I feel that when Federer and Murray come on to the court against each other, Federer just doesn't respect the guy at the other end of the court.

I'm not sure if it's a style thing, or if it's because of the difficulties posed by Murray, but does anyone else feel, like I do, that Federer's efforts against Murray display a sort of a vain disregard for Murray's style? It's been well-documented that Federer cares about the aesthetics of tennis almost about as much as results, so it's not unfathomable to think that Federer may not feel like it's worth the effort to go out there and grind out a win.

I don't think it's just vanity in Federer's part, or that it's only because Murray leads in the H2H. Nadal has a much better H2H against him, but when Federer plays Nadal, you always see a sense of urgency on his face; whereas with Murray, it's not as much urgency as it is apathy.

Anyone else feel the same way?
 
Federer always complimented Murray before his big breakthrough. In an interview in 2007 he was asked which of the youngsters he thought was most promising and he said Murray (who was injured).

I don't think he disrespects Murray's game. It's just that he thinks that his A game is better than Murray's game. That's true, obviously.

Federer can't out grind Murray because it's not his game. He wins by playing aggressively, and that's a correct game plan.
 

Blinkism

Legend
It was almost the same situation when Nadal played Federer early in their rivalry.

You could see, for example, during the Dubai final in 2006 how distraught Federer was the someone like Nadal could be beating him.

As Nadal matured and started really racking up titles and slams, Federer began to give him respect.

It's hard to respect someone like Murray who you smacked around in the USO final and has accomplished zilch when compared to Nadal's first 2 breakout seasons (2 FO's, 1 Wimby final, a bunch of Master's)

Federer is serious about reversing this H2H, I'm sure.
 

Love Game

Talk Tennis Guru
Does anyone else feel that Federer just doesn't respect Murray's game that much?
youre kidding, right? ....... listening to his pressers, federer doesnt respect anybody, does he? ...... He's full of snide comments about other players from what I've heard ...... and the funny thing is that the buttboys in the press get a chuckle out of him! :lol:
 

mandy01

G.O.A.T.
Don't know what pressers you've been listening to.
The ones in the head :wink:

Anyway to the OP..I dont think Fed dosent respect Murray's game.I think what Fed simply put dosent like is passive play which Murray displays quite often.
 
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boojay

Hall of Fame
There are plenty of players who don't respect Murray's game, not just Fed. And why should they?
 
He is not impressed by Murray's defensive style and wants to blow him away quickly in all matches.

It doesn't always work out for him, though.

But, I agree, he doesn't respect it. He said so just before the match. He used to criticize Murray's playing style in the past as well, I can't exactly remember when..
 
He is not impressed by Murray's defensive style and wants to blow him away quickly in all matches.

It doesn't always work out for him, though.

But, I agree, he doesn't respect it. He said so just before the match. He used to criticize Murray's playing style in the past as well, I can't exactly remember when..
He criticized Murray for playing too defensively, even right after being beaten by him. He's correct - Murray, like Nadal, can get too defensive because he defends so well. And they pay the price on big occasions, especially in slams against players who are on fire.
 

DarthFed

Hall of Fame
I think it was Dubai, he mentioned being disappointed that Murray's game was still relatively the same..(of Course ROger said that after losing so he was being a sore loser lmao)
 
He criticized Murray for playing too defensively, even right after being beaten by him. He's correct - Murray, like Nadal, can get too defensive because he defends so well. And they pay the price on big occasions, especially in slams against players who are on fire.
It was early this year, as I remember?

They said he was just being bitter. But, the man knew what he was talking about.
 

wilkinru

Professional
I cant wait for federer to be coached to grind people out.

punisher 2.0 coming up. (with the occasional brilliant shot)
 
Federer is somewhat arrogant and dismissive of his opponents by nature IMO. However he like others is probably agitated by the degree of overhype of Murray too. The guy is a really good player but he still doesnt have a slam, and he is still ranked behind Djokovic who has had an up and down year for his standards. He is still talked up more than he deserves to be at this point, things like being picked the favorite for slams, or anyone insinuating his the #1 in waiting at this point.

Most matches he loses to Murray are his own errors. Some of those forced by Murrays great defensive, tactical, and overall play of course, but he probably also feels he is in control of how their matches goes deep down. True or not, that is probably how he feels, and why he has that kind of outlook probably.
 

LiveForever

Banned
Federer is a brilliant analyst. He clearly told everyone that when he plays Murray, the key is in his hand. This is clearly seen in everyone of their matches. The moment Federer starts hitting his first serves in the boxes and smacking his forehand, Murray goes down like a sack of rocks. You got it all wrong in this regard, Federer has said Murray is a talented player but he also is smart enough to realize that Murray plays a chumpy defensive game most of the time.
 
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Defcon

Hall of Fame
Fed is sick and tired of all the hype Murray receives as a pretender to the throne, not to mention all the trash talking Murray himself does when he has done absolutely nothing.

Lets face it, from the point of view of the top 10 players, Andy IS a pusher. To a player like Fed, and to aggressive players like Sampras, Becker, someone like Murray is to be treated with disdain. They know they can blow him away and he has nothing to hurt them. So the match is entirely in their hands, and saying that is not arrogance, just the truth.

Besides the mismatch in skill, its not like Murray is a mental giant or a fighter like Rafa. So there is every reason for Fed not to respect Murray's game or consider him a real threat.
 

Defcon

Hall of Fame
Fed would make a fantastic coach and commentator. He's one of the few top players who has genuine insight and the candor to say what he thinks.
 

stapler

Professional
I kinda feel that Federer always like to "wow" the crowd and put on an entertaining show for them, and when he plays Murray who rarely creates a situation for them to do so, he feels like Murray is somehow "hurting" the sport by making people perhaps not as excited to watch it.
 
Difference btwn candour and saying something stupid though. To me its pretty arrogant to criticise the game of a player who has a winning edge over you.
 

Outbeyond

Legend
I kinda feel that Federer always like to "wow" the crowd and put on an entertaining show for them, and when he plays Murray who rarely creates a situation for them to do so, he feels like Murray is somehow "hurting" the sport by making people perhaps not as excited to watch it.
Well, I don't know about the Fed and the wow factor, though I suspect he does love the gasps (and we do gasp when he plays)! But I have to say, not having watched much of Murray until recently, I think he's quite a good player. But I wasn't impressed that he folded in the third set today. Jeez, even Rafa, in the midst of an all-out slump, keeps it going until the bitter end.
 

President

Legend
I kinda feel that Federer always like to "wow" the crowd and put on an entertaining show for them, and when he plays Murray who rarely creates a situation for them to do so, he feels like Murray is somehow "hurting" the sport by making people perhaps not as excited to watch it.
I agree with this. When Murray wins a match, it is almost always a snoozefest. The opponent seemingly beats himself with UE.

However, when he LOSES a match, it's usually very interesting. This is because no matter how poorly he is playing, he will get a lot of balls into play, which makes for some spectacular rallies.

Basically, Murray getting beaten makes for some great tennis:twisted:
 

AAAA

Hall of Fame
Most matches he loses to Murray are his own errors. Some of those forced by Murrays great defensive, tactical, and overall play of course, but he probably also feels he is in control of how their matches goes deep down. True or not, that is probably how he feels, and why he has that kind of outlook probably.
By conincidence that's the explanation Tim Henman gave for Federer's recent comments about Murray. To paraphrase, Henman said 'Rodger feels the match is on his racket against Murray'
 

pame

Hall of Fame
Difference btwn candour and saying something stupid though. To me its pretty arrogant to criticise the game of a player who has a winning edge over you.
Whether a player has a winning H2H over you or not, if you've won 15 GS and hold countless records, I'd think you have the credentials to criticze or analyze another player. One would be inclined to think that Fed has learned a little bit about tennis along the way :)
 

Lsmkenpo

Hall of Fame
Federer was 100% right about Murray's game regardless if he lost the match in Dubai or not, if Murray would have listened and became a bit more aggressive
he probably would have made at least 2 slam finals this year.
 

Love Game

Talk Tennis Guru
youre kidding, right? ....... listening to his pressers, federer doesnt respect anybody, does he? ...... He's full of snide comments about other players from what I've heard ...... and the funny thing is that the buttboys in the press get a chuckle out of him! :lol:
Don't know what pressers you've been listening to.
The ones in the head :wink:
What? You never heard Rogi's snide and snarky remarks about Nole? :confused:
 
I think at this point Fed's gained plenty of respect for Murray's game, and he takes playing Murray seriously. But I don't think he likes playing Murray. Murray's game relies largely on making his opponent play badly. Does anyone like playing someone who does that? I know I don't. I respect Murray's gameplan because he knows he can't just outhit Fed and I don't think he should be expected to try an obviously losing plan. I like Murray but like Fed even more, and it's sweet to see Fed find his game despite Murray's best efforts.

Murray also seems to have a lack of respect for Fed's game. He seems to think he knows how to dismantle Fed, and sometimes he's right. An excess of respect for an opponent isn't necessarily a good thing. For a while, it seemed like a lot of top players, like Blake, might have had too much respect for Fed.
 

OddJack

G.O.A.T.
^^^^^

Believe it or not, Fed made less UEs than Murray in that match. I dont think it had ever happened, And that was the key.
 

Tony48

Legend
I kinda agree with the OP. That defensive bullcrap surely can irritate Federer and he probably doesn't see it as worthwhile to "respect" it and play along. So he tries to blow him off the court at every given opportunity instead of adapting to Murray's play style. Sometimes it works (like today) and sometimes it doesn't.
 
Whether a player has a winning H2H over you or not, if you've won 15 GS and hold countless records, I'd think you have the credentials to criticze or analyze another player. One would be inclined to think that Fed has learned a little bit about tennis along the way :)
Maybe. But save it after he retires when he becomes a coach or commentator. They'd be welcome then and not smacking of the cheap shot they patently are. As far as learning things maybe he can reflect on why Murray has been able to school him more often than not.
 

Cantankersore

Semi-Pro
^^^^^

Believe it or not, Fed made less UEs than Murray in that match. I dont think it had ever happened, And that was the key.
Nah man, it was the serving after the first set. He was getting over 90% of the first serve points, and serving at like 75%. You pretty much can't lose serving like that.
 

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
Difference btwn candour and saying something stupid though. To me its pretty arrogant to criticise the game of a player who has a winning edge over you.
Disagreed. I think Fed actually sees a lot of himself in Murray. The touch, a good serve, he's also praised Murray for his tactical ability. He just said that it's gonna take a lot of grinding if Murray's gonna play like that. And it is, he was right. How's that arrogant. He just says what he feels, nothing wrong really. I don't see how Federer is arrogant, given that he basically schooled the whole open era in the last 6 years.

Anyways, I bet you wouldn't mind Sampras criticizing Fed's game. Or how about Simon Reed criticizing Fed's game. I bet Fed has a winning edge over him.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Disagreed. I think Fed actually sees a lot of himself in Murray. The touch, a good serve, he's also praised Murray for his tactical ability. He just said that it's gonna take a lot of grinding if Murray's gonna play like that. And it is, he was right. How's that arrogant. He just says what he feels, nothing wrong really. I don't see how Federer is arrogant, given that he basically schooled the whole open era in the last 6 years.

Anyways, I bet you wouldn't mind Sampras criticizing Fed's game. Or how about Simon Reed criticizing Fed's game. I bet Fed has a winning edge over him.
Fed should just say that the difference between Murray and him is 15 slams right after he loses to him at USO SF,according to TW standards that would be humble.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Federer is somewhat arrogant and dismissive of his opponents by nature IMO. However he like others is probably agitated by the degree of overhype of Murray too. The guy is a really good player but he still doesnt have a slam, and he is still ranked behind Djokovic who has had an up and down year for his standards. He is still talked up more than he deserves to be at this point, things like being picked the favorite for slams, or anyone insinuating his the #1 in waiting at this point.

Most matches he loses to Murray are his own errors. Some of those forced by Murrays great defensive, tactical, and overall play of course, but he probably also feels he is in control of how their matches goes deep down. True or not, that is probably how he feels, and why he has that kind of outlook probably.
I agree with this,good post.

However to be fair to Murray even though a lot of people say it's British hype or whatever fact remains that the hype Murray received was for a good reason,he won Cincy than beat Nadal(#1 at that time)in a great SF at USO,won Madrid after,beat Fed 4 times in a row on HC etc. I still feel he'll win a slam sooner or later although he might need to fix a few things.
 

namelessone

Legend
Federer respects people who beat him at Slams. He said the same things to Nadal at first(one-dimensional) but after 3-4 years he said he respects the spaniard. I'm sure he respects DelPo as well seeing as he the argie beat him in USO. So far,Murray has been able to beat him in 3 setters but lost their most important match,the USO final.

If Murray doesn't step his game up I don't think he will have Roger's respect in the near future. He plays almost as passive as Rafa nowadays even though he has a better serve and return than Rafa. He can do more,but he doesn't an that's why he's getting little respect. Say what you will about Rafa but he learned to go on the offensive on clay and grass once time passed. He was a much more offensive player in 2008-early 2009 as opposed to 2005,for example.
 

rafan

Hall of Fame
Fed would make a fantastic coach and commentator. He's one of the few top players who has genuine insight and the candor to say what he thinks.
Yes you are right and it was made certain the way he "advised" his partner during the doubles at the olympics. I thought then I hope he doesn't just give up like Borg and go on contributing
 

rafan

Hall of Fame
The strange thing about Federer is that the aspects of his personality I don't like I also admire. I wish, I wish Rafa wouldn't be so darn "nice" I get the feeling that Federer has Murray's number and he knows he has limitations, whereas Nadal still goes on telling us how great Murray will be ONE DAY. You have the feeling with Federer in his body language when he walks on court that he is number one so respect me, distance yourself from me, remember who I am. Rafa still feels he has to apologise for his position. One thing for sure, if Murray ever becomes number one he will be right there a dominant force - and take no prisoners
 

Agassifan

Hall of Fame
The strange thing about Federer is that the aspects of his personality I don't like I also admire. I wish, I wish Rafa wouldn't be so darn "nice" I get the feeling that Federer has Murray's number and he knows he has limitations, whereas Nadal still goes on telling us how great Murray will be ONE DAY. You have the feeling with Federer in his body language when he walks on court that he is number one so respect me, distance yourself from me, remember who I am. Rafa still feels he has to apologise for his position. One thing for sure, if Murray ever becomes number one he will be right there a dominant force - and take no prisoners
Dude.. Federer is the nicest guy on tour. Just ask the players. I don't think too many of them like Rafa. Fed doesn't SAY as many nice things as Rafa does though.
 

rafan

Hall of Fame
Dude.. Federer is the nicest guy on tour. Just ask the players. I don't think too many of them like Rafa. Fed doesn't SAY as many nice things as Rafa does though.
Well, I think Federer is the iron fist in a velvet glove. I don't think what you see is what you get. He is arrogant, deserves to be so and no Rafa is very well liked just for bringing something new to tennis. Sampras was a brilliant player but he admitted he was upset because some people, although admired him, were bored with his constant wins. Many, many tennis fans are so grateful to Nadal for bringing colour, excitement and most importantly the fact that nothing is certain with him. Oh as for Fed not saying much. The $1500 fine for swearing .... enough said
 
Disagreed. I think Fed actually sees a lot of himself in Murray. The touch, a good serve, he's also praised Murray for his tactical ability. He just said that it's gonna take a lot of grinding if Murray's gonna play like that. And it is, he was right. How's that arrogant. He just says what he feels, nothing wrong really. I don't see how Federer is arrogant, given that he basically schooled the whole open era in the last 6 years.

Anyways, I bet you wouldn't mind Sampras criticizing Fed's game. Or how about Simon Reed criticizing Fed's game. I bet Fed has a winning edge over him.
I don't mind Sampras criticising anyone's game. He's got the record to back it up plus he's ret'd. Besides I don't think he has ever criticised Fed. Nothing much to criticise.

Never heard of Simon Reed. I've only developed an interest in tennis recently. Sounds like ignorance is bliss in that regard as I get the impression not many people here like him.

Fed is generally a humble champ. Maybe his criticism of Murray here has been overplayed by people commenting on this forum. Nothing wrong with a player answering questions on how he planned a match which may include insights on his opponents weaknesses. But criticising a bloke's style is a bit presumptious. Not everyone is born with the same talents. Murray's just playing to his strengths and can't be the type of player Fed is. So whats the purpose of the criticism? Murray can't change what he is.

Now maybe what Fed said isn't as bad as what's been portrayed on this thread but you'd think you'd shut it until you had a winning hth against the player you're commenting on.
 

dwhiteside

Semi-Pro
Fed is sick and tired of all the hype Murray receives as a pretender to the throne, not to mention all the trash talking Murray himself does when he has done absolutely nothing.

Lets face it, from the point of view of the top 10 players, Andy IS a pusher. To a player like Fed, and to aggressive players like Sampras, Becker, someone like Murray is to be treated with disdain. They know they can blow him away and he has nothing to hurt them. So the match is entirely in their hands, and saying that is not arrogance, just the truth.

Besides the mismatch in skill, its not like Murray is a mental giant or a fighter like Rafa. So there is every reason for Fed not to respect Murray's game or consider him a real threat.
Nice idea of truth you've got there considering Federer is 4-6 against Murray. Good going. And if Murray is a pusher, and Federer is 4-6 against a pusher, then that doesn't say much for tennis in general, does it...
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
I don't mind Sampras criticising anyone's game. He's got the record to back it up plus he's ret'd. Besides I don't think he has ever criticised Fed. Nothing much to criticise.

Never heard of Simon Reed. I've only developed an interest in tennis recently. Sounds like ignorance is bliss in that regard as I get the impression not many people here like him.

Fed is generally a humble champ. Maybe his criticism of Murray here has been overplayed by people commenting on this forum. Nothing wrong with a player answering questions on how he planned a match which may include insights on his opponents weaknesses. But criticising a bloke's style is a bit presumptious. Not everyone is born with the same talents. Murray's just playing to his strengths and can't be the type of player Fed is. So whats the purpose of the criticism? Murray can't change what he is.

Now maybe what Fed said isn't as bad as what's been portrayed on this thread but you'd think you'd shut it until you had a winning hth against the player you're commenting on.
Count yourself blessed for that.

As for Murray,don't agree he can't play differently,did you watch his match against Nadal at USO last year? It was a beautiful mixture of defense,agression,big serving and touch.Murray is talented enough that he can add some agression to his game,not change his gameplan completely but take initiative a bit more,Stefanki(Roddick's coach) said the same.
 

P_Agony

Banned
Well, I think Federer is the iron fist in a velvet glove. I don't think what you see is what you get. He is arrogant, deserves to be so and no Rafa is very well liked just for bringing something new to tennis. Sampras was a brilliant player but he admitted he was upset because some people, although admired him, were bored with his constant wins. Many, many tennis fans are so grateful to Nadal for bringing colour, excitement and most importantly the fact that nothing is certain with him. Oh as for Fed not saying much. The $1500 fine for swearing .... enough said
Federer recived a fine for words he shouldn't have said (although he was right at his complaints), however nobody is perfect and people make mistakes. Nadal threw racquets and cursed as well, so what?

Point is, the players love Federer, they admit that. Del Potro went on to say he's a huge fan of Federer (take that, Love Game ;-)), the players choose Federer for the sportsmanship award every single year, for like 4-5 years in a row now.
 

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
Fed should just say that the difference between Murray and him is 15 slams right after he loses to him at USO SF,according to TW standards that would be humble.
That wouldn't be nice if Fed said that, but it wouldn't be arrogant either. It would be a truth that doesn't get much more scientific. I'm not saying Federer's always very humble, but he's far from arrogant imo. It's hard to be really, if you're THAT good. He can hardly be arrogant about his forehand. Maybe about his looks, his French, or his chances with Gwen Stefani, but.. As long as it's the truth and it's said in some constructive way and not just giving yourself a clap on the shoulder constantly, imo he's not arrogant.

Think he was also right about Murray, and why should he say the diff. is 15 Slams. Murray was 20 at the time. Federer just was correct that Murray has a very energy demanding style.
 

joeri888

G.O.A.T.
I don't mind Sampras criticising anyone's game. He's got the record to back it up plus he's ret'd. Besides I don't think he has ever criticised Fed. Nothing much to criticise.
My point exactly. Fed has a winning h2h against Sampras, but Sampras has done enough in and for tennis to have the right to give his opinion on other players. His opinion is valued by others. Even though fed holds a winning edge over Sampras, Sampras has every right to criticize Federer's game, that's not arrogant.
 

namelessone

Legend
Federer is the best player on tour from many different points of view. He regularly beats up these players but he is actually nice to many of them because I think deep down he knows that it can't be easy for them to be defeated so often by him. And I think he acts almost like a father figure to some of them. DelPo was watching Federer win since 2003 when delpo barely hit puberty so it must be special for him to beat a legend like Federer in 2009.
When Rafa beat Fed the first time in a Slam,Federer was already a very accomplished player.

Also,Federer is a more of an extrovert unlike Rafa,who is an introvert. No matter how nice Rafa is,he will never get the SE award,because,outside of his circle of friends,he seems socially awkward(the bad english might have something to do with it though),he keeps to himself more whereas Federer mingles in all kinds of circles. And while the pro's know Rafa is very nice off-court,some of his on-court quirks may very well play a role in why he is not even nominated for this award.

That's my take on the whole thing. Sorry for the off-topic.
 

rafan

Hall of Fame
Federer recived a fine for words he shouldn't have said (although he was right at his complaints), however nobody is perfect and people make mistakes. Nadal threw racquets and cursed as well, so what?

Point is, the players love Federer, they admit that. Del Potro went on to say he's a huge fan of Federer (take that, Love Game ;-)), the players choose Federer for the sportsmanship award every single year, for like 4-5 years in a row now.
I don't want our players to be perfect. Nadal is a huge fan of Federer. Good heavens what is there to dislike Nadal for! My point about the whole question is that Nadal should be less nice and a bit more of a fearsome rival. Nadal is also the new guy on the block compared to Federer as regards winning slams and winning friends. Federer is fine if he is winning but not so pleasant if he loses. Nadal has learned to take the rough with the smooth and remain humble - too darn humble for his own good
 

P_Agony

Banned
I don't want our players to be perfect. Nadal is a huge fan of Federer. Good heavens what is there to dislike Nadal for! My point about the whole question is that Nadal should be less nice and a bit more of a fearsome rival. Nadal is also the new guy on the block compared to Federer as regards winning slams and winning friends. Federer is fine if he is winning but not so pleasant if he loses. Nadal has learned to take the rough with the smooth and remain humble - too darn humble for his own good
Never said anything about disliking Nadal. All I said is that he's not perfect, and neither is Fed or any player. They're human afterall, so they can sometimes act like arrogrants, sore losers, etc.

What matters is what you do when you go out the court. I don't know about Nadal, he seems nice and a fun guy off court, but I haven't read many comments about him off court. I have read a lot about Fed though, from the likes of Roddick, Blake, even Nadal himself, so it looks like Fed is a very nice guy off the court. Doesn't mean Rafa isn't as well.
 
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