Does anyone else have vivid, enlightened dreams?

#51
... I want to enjoy the magic without even knowing the mechanisms that make it possible.
No - I want to understand the mechanisms as clearly as possible and manipulate the potentiality and freely induce this additional "extension" in the enabling of horizon convergence, horizons which may fail to adequately ingress in one's waking moments. It would appear not many reliably have this extension. Imagine not having the internet as an extension.
 

Northern

Hall of Fame
#54
Pardon me but I did roll my eyes a bit when I read the bolded.

As to your second paragraph, I understand the point and I think it aligns with Hydros' view as well. Some just want to enjoy the journey as it is while others are a bit more curious. I get that magical part but I do tend to wonder about things.
I also wonder about things, but sometimes I prefer to keep wondering. I don't aim to reduce everything to science. I'd rather enjoy the puppet show without a peak at the puppetteer. This metaphor actually took place literally when I was a child of 3 or 4 at a puppet show. My natural curiosity took me behind the board and it was heartbreaking to see those two people moving the puppets with their hands and doing voices. Since then I have been a firm proponent of Magic and ignorance.
 

Northern

Hall of Fame
#55
Yes all the time. I even "rely" on dreams for much of my ideation. The problem is that some of the stuff that comes up in dreams is so complex and thorough that translating the FULL VISION down after waking can be difficult, especially if you're hearing full sweeping symphonic ideas or complex strings of thought which brings into focus an entire potential solution to a problem. This is when having personal code for ideation helps in the same sense that (I think??) journalists have shorthand language. Last night I had an issue with figuring out solutions for how Now does not know itself. Many solutions for this thought came in the dreams to follow. I even strategically arm myself to dream in this way, and easily hold dreams even when aware that I am dreaming and could awake. Dreams are amazing things. You can dream up entire locations, stories and sounds that don't exist in the unique configuration your brain happens to immediately composite them - stuff which can sometimes seem blocked off and constipated when awake; a free flow of awesome synthesis bubbling in the subconscious bursting to the surface not just in flashes but in sustained streams of absolute understanding and holistic vision. This whole area of creativity is something which sorely lacks research and is poorly taken advantage of.
The way you describe this is exactly how it is, but in my case I have to wake up just at the right time to capture the essence of the dream in such a way that its images and sounds are still alive in my mind's eye. Otherwise is like walking into a room where there was a someone a few minutes earlier, and where you can still feel the faint smell and faded presence, but not much else.

It's just like your brain can operate unbridled when you have these dreams and it can create this alternate reality (which is what perception is) whose complexity and brilliance defies usual (waking) abilities. And it sounds like you have had these dreams for a long time and have learned to some level to be able to enable and control them, which is unbelievable. Have you done this through trial and error, or have you searched for information on how to do that?

Using your dreams for "ideation" and to find "solutions" like you put it is something that appears in a lot of cultures I guess, and I think that most anyone has felt that experience where they were struggling with a problem of some time (technical, or more often philosophical or existential) only to be given some valuable insight or breakthrough through a dream. Do you feel that meditation before sleep is important for this? Whenever I've tried to cause a specific dream to happen (normally to try to conjure someone into my dream who I missed from the past) that was my approach, but I have had very mixed results. I've also found that some foods seem to inhibit my dreams (capsaicin being one of them) so if I'm trying to have dreams even (or at least to be able to remember them) I will abstain from eating spicy foods.

I must say I'm not shocked at the idea of you being a master of your dreams (relatively speaking) and being able to use them to derive inspiration and solutions from them, because there is something very original about the way you express yourself through writing (not the language itself alone, but rather the mechanisms by which you reason and the paths your ideas follow.) But to be able to use dreams at the high level that you say (to answer philosophical questions) is amazing to me.
 

Northern

Hall of Fame
#56
No - I want to understand the mechanisms as clearly as possible and manipulate the potentiality and freely induce this additional "extension" in the enabling of horizon convergence, horizons which may fail to adequately ingress in one's waking moments. It would appear not many reliably have this extension. Imagine not having the internet as an extension.
When you put it like that, if knowing how the Magic works would allow me to have more of it, I suppose that yes, I'd also like to be able to do that even if it forces me to look at the science of it. So have you researched books about this?

Not having the Internet as an extension would be great. To be a little crass, there is no amount of online content of objectionable nature that can match up to the exhilaration and beauty of a lucid erotic dream (and unfortunately I don't have too many of those.) And I give this example a little tongue-in-cheek, but it came to mind based on the fact that this is, according to statistics, what people use the Internet for an extension the most these days.
 

Zara

Hall of Fame
#57
I'd go with just the B6 (with. possibly, other supps) if melatonin is an issue for you.

Perhaps your dosage of melatonin was too high. You can get it in a liquid form and just use a few drops. Usually, if I take melatonin, it is still in my system the following morning -- I feel groggy and often have a struggle waking up -- a melatonin hangover, if you will.
.
I don’t know if it was too high but it was a long time ago. Maybe around 2008 or 2009? But what I am really curious about is why it causes nightmares especially as you come off (drugs, alcohol etc.). I feel it almost strips you naked and brings forward all your fear that lie within your sub-conscious mind.

When my circumstances were doubtful I remember experiencing nightmares far more. I’d think a generally happy person who grew up in a happy environment under a set of ideal parents would have less nightmares if at all. I know this as I observed myself throughout my life as I went through different experiences. There were many times where I became vulnerable when I completely detached myself from my family and the nightmares would be at their peak, because I did not have any real support so the fear point was really high. And I knew this and it caused a lot of fear in me. But I am much more stable now and much stronger and able to live without any kind of attachment, so the nightmares are less and less. It was all my own doing of course as I deeply desired to be free - free from all the social structures and boundaries etc.

In any case, I have always been very curious about it and I feel there are still a lot of fear inside in each of us and they tend to come out when we go off even the simplest meds like allergy meds which are mostly over the counter stuff. But I have had similar experiences with alcohol too where I drank one too many days in succession (say, when I was on vacation) and then suddenly came off.
 
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Zara

Hall of Fame
#58
I also wonder about things, but sometimes I prefer to keep wondering. I don't aim to reduce everything to science. I'd rather enjoy the puppet show without a peak at the puppetteer. This metaphor actually took place literally when I was a child of 3 or 4 at a puppet show. My natural curiosity took me behind the board and it was heartbreaking to see those two people moving the puppets with their hands and doing voices. Since then I have been a firm proponent of Magic and ignorance.
Does this mean you are not ready for the absolute truth? You know at the end of the road, there's nothing and there's everything. So why get heartbroken? You won't be disheartened if you know the truth and at the same time, you will be able to enjoy it too.
 
#59
The way you describe this is exactly how it is, but in my case I have to wake up just at the right time to capture the essence of the dream in such a way that its images and sounds are still alive in my mind's eye. Otherwise is like walking into a room where there was a someone a few minutes earlier, and where you can still feel the faint smell and faded presence, but not much else.

It's just like your brain can operate unbridled when you have these dreams and it can create this alternate reality (which is what perception is) whose complexity and brilliance defies usual (waking) abilities. And it sounds like you have had these dreams for a long time and have learned to some level to be able to enable and control them, which is unbelievable. Have you done this through trial and error, or have you searched for information on how to do that?

Using your dreams for "ideation" and to find "solutions" like you put it is something that appears in a lot of cultures I guess, and I think that most anyone has felt that experience where they were struggling with a problem of some time (technical, or more often philosophical or existential) only to be given some valuable insight or breakthrough through a dream. Do you feel that meditation before sleep is important for this? Whenever I've tried to cause a specific dream to happen (normally to try to conjure someone into my dream who I missed from the past) that was my approach, but I have had very mixed results. I've also found that some foods seem to inhibit my dreams (capsaicin being one of them) so if I'm trying to have dreams even (or at least to be able to remember them) I will abstain from eating spicy foods.

I must say I'm not shocked at the idea of you being a master of your dreams (relatively speaking) and being able to use them to derive inspiration and solutions from them, because there is something very original about the way you express yourself through writing (not the language itself alone, but rather the mechanisms by which you reason and the paths your ideas follow.) But to be able to use dreams at the high level that you say (to answer philosophical questions) is amazing to me.
Trial and error.

I infest my mind with the thought or problem or hazy essence before I sleep, becoming as mind-full as possible, as to intagliate the mind such that the imprint of thought must manifest in the visions to follow. In short, I put the mind into overdrive before sleeping, and with a focus such that it cannot be disturbed by other distractions. It doesn't take me long to fall asleep through this activity, well-armed and clearly directed.

That's what works for me - a form of meditation, though without the typical addition of clearing the mind or whatever. Let's call it a burst of intense rumination, though it's usually already whirring around long before sleepy time and not turned on with the flick of a switch. Being obsessed helps.

Sometimes ideas can come in a manner in which the steps which would usually have to be taken in arriving to it are skipped, other times insights from dreams propel an arborescent flourishing which leads one closer to a destination more gradually.
 
#60
When you put it like that, if knowing how the Magic works would allow me to have more of it, I suppose that yes, I'd also like to be able to do that even if it forces me to look at the science of it. So have you researched books about this?

Not having the Internet as an extension would be great. To be a little crass, there is no amount of online content of objectionable nature that can match up to the exhilaration and beauty of a lucid erotic dream (and unfortunately I don't have too many of those.) And I give this example a little tongue-in-cheek, but it came to mind based on the fact that this is, according to statistics, what people use the Internet for an extension the most these days.
I've read a lot of Jung's work which I think is relevant, including The Red Book. Mainly I've just found my own ways and methods whilst pondering on my own outlooks. There are a couple of books out there that you might find useful. Heard good things about Creative Dreaming by Patricia Garfield. I adopt my own strategies related to the sort of metaphysics espoused by Bergson, Whitehead and Deleuze, which have continued to evolve my own process substantially.

A lot of porn sites in the top 20 or so most used sites on the internet - indeed. Imagine if the full power of consciousness could be so readily accessible. :sneaky:
 
#61
When you put it like that, if knowing how the Magic works would allow me to have more of it, I suppose that yes, I'd also like to be able to do that even if it forces me to look at the science of it. So have you researched books about this?

Not having the Internet as an extension would be great. To be a little crass, there is no amount of online content of objectionable nature that can match up to the exhilaration and beauty of a lucid erotic dream (and unfortunately I don't have too many of those.) And I give this example a little tongue-in-cheek, but it came to mind based on the fact that this is, according to statistics, what people use the Internet for an extension the most these days.

Controlling lucid dreams is pretty tricky. One can be aware of the dream and maintain its state yet not necessarily control its narrative. If I'm troubled and feeling negative energies then I can lose control of the dreams far more easily, and fail to follow through on ideas.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#62
Don't get too much into the "dreams are another reality" stuff. It was a popular idea among both Western and Eastern philosophers that just like dreaming appears real when it is happening, therefore the waking state is also a dream from which we will awaken if we become "enlightened" (or die). Today's knowledge of the brain explains why dreams occur and it does not need any philosophical explanation, or generalization to the waking state.
 
#63
Don't get too much into the "dreams are another reality" stuff. It was a popular idea among both Western and Eastern philosophers that just like dreaming appears real when it is happening, therefore the waking state is also a dream from which we will awaken if we become "enlightened" (or die). Today's knowledge of the brain explains why dreams occur and it does not need any philosophical explanation, or generalization to the waking state.
Dreams are the same reality - that's the point. They are directly translatable to real world application and ideation.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#64
Dreams are the same reality - that's the point. They are directly translatable to real world application and ideation.
No. Many dreams don't obey the laws of Physics. So they are not translatable at all.

If you mean that they have psychological relevance by tapping into your innermost fears and desires, yes. That is the idea behind Freud's The Interpretation Of Dreams. It is the same as watching a fantasy movie in which animals talk like humans. Sure, it has social and psychological significance, but that is all. It is not like a real alternative reality, like another Universe in the Multiverse.
 
#65
No. Many dreams don't obey the laws of Physics. So they are not translatable at all.

If you mean that they have psychological relevance by tapping into your innermost fears and desires, yes. That is the idea behind Freud's The Interpretation Of Dreams. It is the same as watching a fantasy movie in which animals talk like humans. Sure, it has social and psychological significance, but that is all. It is not like a real alternative reality, like another Universe in the Multiverse.
In my world, they absolutely are translatable. If I dream of a cat sized mammoth chewing on my pot plants, that is obviously not translatable other than representing the vision, should it be any different than when not dreaming, through art of a sort.

So I will amend my point as to say dreams can be and often are the same reality, and a lot of what can manifest in dreams is directly translatable to real world application and ideation. I'm not sure why I'm bothering to explain that though as it's so obvious to state that it probably comes across as patronising. It's obvious that ideas can come in dreams which can then be used further - pretty much a given aspect. You seem to be heading down a different road of discussion with the alternate reality stuff.
 
#66
Controlling lucid dreams is pretty tricky. One can be aware of the dream and maintain its state yet not necessarily control its narrative. If I'm troubled and feeling negative energies then I can lose control of the dreams far more easily, and fail to follow through on ideas.
Astral projection?
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#67
In my world, they absolutely are translatable. If I dream of a cat sized mammoth chewing on my pot plants, that is obviously not translatable other than representing the vision, should it be any different than when not dreaming, through art of a sort.

So I will amend my point as to say dreams can be and often are the same reality, and a lot of what can manifest in dreams is directly translatable to real world application and ideation. I'm not sure why I'm bothering to explain that though as it's so obvious to state that it probably comes across as patronising. It's obvious that ideas can come in dreams which can then be used further - pretty much a given aspect. You seem to be heading down a different road of discussion with the alternate reality stuff.
I am aware of the mundane ideas about dreams having psychological significance and even being inspiring in real life waking state. That Kekule dreamt of the structure of the Benzene molecule is known to me (even if it turns out to be an urban myth).

I was addressing some of the esoteric ideas that have been claimed as part of philosophy.
 
#69
I am aware of the mundane ideas about dreams having psychological significance and even being inspiring in real life waking state. That Kekule dreamt of the structure of the Benzene molecule is known to me (even if it turns out to be an urban myth).

I was addressing some of the esoteric ideas that have been claimed as part of philosophy.
The use is in extracting the potential from dreams for one's waking reality. Focusing on esoteric ideas or making the blanket statement that dreams are not translatable at all suggests to me two extreme poles which fail to capture a very real essence of the potentiality which can and does exist in dreams, far beyond them having psychological significance or being inspiring, and much more into the realm of the actual creation occurring within the dream which does not inspire a waking product but is the product itself ready to be translated into the waking.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#72
Why do you feel the need for it? Do you suppose you have explanation for everything and you are absolutely right or sure about Those?
People need to be educated so that they are not gullible. For example, after you post this, I am sure r2473 will post something without any content.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#73
The use is in extracting the potential from dreams for one's waking reality. Focusing on esoteric ideas or making the blanket statement that dreams are not translatable at all suggests to me two extreme poles which fail to capture a very real essence of the potentiality which can and does exist in dreams, far beyond them having psychological significance or being inspiring, and much more into the realm of the actual creation occurring within the dream which does not inspire a waking product but is the product itself ready to be translated into the waking.
I was saying dreams are not translatable when they violate physical laws. People claim to have left their bodies and gone around the world. People claim to have experienced things in their dreams before they happened. That is all right because there may be clues - e.g., a family member being very sick and someone has a dream that they passed away. But people claim to have such dreams even when there was no such situation. A very small number of these may be coincidences, but the others are just made up after the fact and should not be believed.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#74
A relative of mine told me after his retirement that he would live for 4.5 years more. He knew this because his father and brothers all had a strong sense of premonition and were always right. 4.5 years passed. Each year after that, I would ask him if he was alive. One day he came over and I shouted from the bedroom that it could not be him because he died 3 years ago. He used to get very pissed off hehehe. But one day he just passed away.

People claim all these things because 1. It makes them feel special to have such skills as telepathy and premonition and 2. Because they are afraid of death and want to believe that there is a supernatural existence after that and 3. It makes them fun people at get-togethers.
 
#76
I was saying dreams are not translatable when they violate physical laws. People claim to have left their bodies and gone around the world. People claim to have experienced things in their dreams before they happened. That is all right because there may be clues - e.g., a family member being very sick and someone has a dream that they passed away. But people claim to have such dreams even when there was no such situation. A very small number of these may be coincidences, but the others are just made up after the fact and should not be believed.
OK, but this stuff is pretty hackneyed to me in general, as I'm more interested in how dreams actually are translatable to real life in what can become consistently helpful ways, which is generally ignored, as people would rather steer the discussion into these esoteric realms, or people just don't relate to creating much of anything and are able to generate minimal to no use out of their dreams and barely get their head around the notion of actually interfacing "dreams" with "reality" - something which can be achieved abundantly.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#77
A classmate of mine was very shy about meeting girls. So he read up and became an expert of sorts in palmistry, though he did not believe in it at all. He said that he did this because he found that girls would open their palms and allow him to examine them if he said he knew palmistry, and sometimes they would confide personal stuff to him LOL. Very bright guy. Sort of like why r2473 studied philosophy in college to impress the coeds.
 
#79
OK, but this stuff is pretty hackneyed to me in general, as I'm more interested in how dreams actually are translatable to real life in what can become consistently helpful ways, which is generally ignored, as people would rather steer the discussion into these esoteric realms, or people just don't relate to creating much of anything and are able to generate minimal to no use out of their dreams and barely get their head around the notion of actually interfacing "dreams" with "reality" - something which can be achieved abundantly.
BINGO. I never claim that anything that happens in my dreams is real. I don't claim to fly, or teleport, or levitate. In fact, I never went near acid because I was afraid I might think I was dreaming and try to step off something high.

I am interested in how dreams affect creativity. The dream state is literally altered consciousness. I have woken up from a dream with a tune or idea and then got up to immediately write it down. I often go to bed, wondering how to proceed, then wake up with a solution. I don't care so much about how it works. I care about how adds to my life, and I'd like to harness that creativity as much as possible.
 
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sureshs

Bionic Poster
#80
OK, but this stuff is pretty hackneyed to me in general, as I'm more interested in how dreams actually are translatable to real life in what can become consistently helpful ways, which is generally ignored, as people would rather steer the discussion into these esoteric realms, or people just don't relate to creating much of anything and are able to generate minimal to no use out of their dreams and barely get their head around the notion of actually interfacing "dreams" with "reality" - something which can be achieved abundantly.
Dreams can amplify the effects of the reptilian brain (the hippocampus, though hippo is a mammal hehe) so it puts out forbidden/suppressed desires and exposes deep/suppressed fears. Human beings are basically always swinging back and forth between desire and fear. Dreams expose these in a raw form and can be useful for you to self-analyze yourself or tell them to @ollinger for a fee.
 
#81
Dreams can amplify the effects of the reptilian brain (the hippocampus, though hippo is a mammal hehe) so it puts out forbidden/suppressed desires and exposes deep/suppressed fears. Human beings are basically always swinging back and forth between desire and fear. Dreams expose these in a raw form and can be useful for you to self-analyze yourself or tell them to @ollinger for a fee.
Yes but again that's been covered and parroted a zillion times.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
#82
Kekulé's dream[edit]
The ouroboros, Kekulė's inspiration for the structure of benzene.
The new understanding of benzene, and hence of all aromatic compounds, proved to be so important for both pure and applied chemistry after 1865 that in 1890 the German Chemical Society organized an elaborate appreciation in Kekulé's honor, celebrating the twenty-fifth anniversary of his first benzene paper. Here Kekulé spoke of the creation of the theory. He said that he had discovered the ring shape of the benzene molecule after having a reverie or day-dream of a snake seizing its own tail (this is an ancient symbol known as the ouroboros).[14]

A similar humorous depiction of benzene had appeared in 1886 in the Berichte der Durstigen Chemischen Gesellschaft (Journal of the Thirsty Chemical Society), a parody of the Berichte der Deutschen Chemischen Gesellschaft, only the parody had monkeys seizing each other in a circle, rather than snakes as in Kekulé's anecdote.[15] Some historians have suggested that the parody was a lampoon of the snake anecdote, possibly already well-known through oral transmission even if it had not yet appeared in print.[16] Others have speculated that Kekulé's story in 1890 was a re-parody of the monkey spoof, and was a mere invention rather than a recollection of an event in his life.

Kekulé's 1890 speech,[17] in which these anecdotes appeared, has been translated into English.[18] If one takes the anecdote as reflecting an accurate memory of a real event, circumstances mentioned in the story suggest that it must have happened early in 1862.[19]

He told another autobiographical anecdote in the same 1890 speech, of an earlier vision of dancing atoms and molecules that led to his theory of structure, published in May 1858. This happened, he claimed, while he was riding on the upper deck of a horse-drawn omnibus in London. Once again, if one takes the anecdote as reflecting an accurate memory of a real event, circumstances related in the anecdote suggest that it must have occurred in the late summer of 1855.[20]

In a 2017 essay titled "The Kekulé Problem", the novelist Cormac McCarthy analyzed Kekulé's ouroboros dream as a model of the unconscious mind and the origin of language.[21]
 
#89
I’ve been having some dreams about @125downthemiddle lately. And they are vivid. It’s erotic but also quite “normal” dreams and doing daily life stuff.
What is in every dream about him is that I swim in his dark brown eyes. His dark eyes is a bit obsession of mine and it is in the dreams as well.

If I’m not in a hurry I remember what I dreamed every morning. For me dreaming is an important part of my life. I have been into lucid dreaming and I’ve done dreamworks too.
 
#92
If you don’t remember your dreams it can be a sign you should detox your body. It’s a common thing for those who detox from metals and parasites start to remember their dreams.
Re. ’Parasites’:Especially from money grabbing pseudo witch doctors aka parasites that prey on the gullible portion of the market
 

Zara

Hall of Fame
#97
Dont nightmares serve a purpose though?
I believe they do but how that serves in real life is anybody's guess.

They do make you stop and think about things in your waking life. If there are underlying pressing matters that's causing you nightmares then I'd think they are taking care of on the sub-conscious level. I'd say it's a conversation between the body and mind beyond the waking consciousness or during sleep. Decisions are made in other words based on what's really going on the conscious level and how you are interpreting those in your waking life that's creating fear or challenges within you. It's probably a cry for help from within and people do seek for help from outside as well.
 
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Northern

Hall of Fame
#98
A classmate of mine was very shy about meeting girls. So he read up and became an expert of sorts in palmistry, though he did not believe in it at all. He said that he did this because he found that girls would open their palms and allow him to examine them if he said he knew palmistry, and sometimes they would confide personal stuff to him LOL. Very bright guy. Sort of like why r2473 studied philosophy in college to impress the coeds.
Palmistry sounds like a crafty way to a woman's heart. Consider Boobistry though. Imagine if that were a thing. I know it probably sounds unlikely, but who knows?
 

Northern

Hall of Fame
#99
Most people have far more dreams than they realize, but deams rapidly dissipate from memory. Powerful dreams that elicit strong reactions often lead to waking up and contemplation, and are more likely to be remembered.
This is exactly it. I think people who have the ability to dream lucidly like @Gary Duane and @-NN- probably have two things going for them: It's true that they can conjure dreams specific to their need or interest, but I think, most importantly, they can wake up at the right time. I think the fact people can exert some sort of control on their lucid dreams (this seems to be a feature unless I misunderstand the term "Lucid Dream") might indicate that the brain activity during those dreams could be a hybrid between a waking state and deep REM dreaming (so something similar to an artist in an inspired state, which kind of justifies the higher degree of coherence (if not logical at least artistic in a sense) and sometimes visual/textual/auditory sophistication. But I'm just theorizing here.
 
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