Does Barty deserve her titled era?

BGod

Legend
She's pretty well guaranteed the YE and that would make 3 consecutive, and yes obviously more of an asterisk 2020 than Novak. But it is what it is and she'll be looking good in 2022.

For reference, we know of the Graf, Seles, Hingis, Henin, Serena eras well. Now recently Halep had a long run and won 2 Slams and that's kind of where Barty is now, but I think she'll go further than that personally, she already has 85+ consecutive weeks that are likely to stretch into triple digits, and that's a territory only 4 other women have attained.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
She has a great all round game:
French Open title - Clay
Wimbledon title - Grass
2x Miami champion - hard
WTA Finals champ - hard

Already has 12 singles titles, the Cincinnati final tomorrow could get her 13.

She’s also a fantastic doubles player with a slam, 5 slam runner ups, Miami, Canada and Rome x2 champ.

Has 4 titles this year, could get a 5th tomorrow with more tournaments to come. No player has won more than 5 titles in a season since Serena in 2013.

The week at #1 are an outlier but she definitely helped justify it with her Wimbledon win. She’s got a great hard court game too so she’s competitive at every slam unlike most players like Kerber, Pliskova, Osaka etc.
 

Tennisfan339

Semi-Pro
Nobody deserves to be #1 more than Barty at the moment.
Just take a look a look at her matches this week. 0 and 2 against the defending champion (Azarenka) and also very easy wins against the French Open chsmpion currently #2 in the Race (Krejcikova) and a former world #1 winner of 3 slams who is playing well again lately (Kerber). All taken out in quick straight sets. Have you watched her matches?

This year so far her only majorly disappointing upset was the Olympics. Injury in Rome and RG. She goes deep In every other big tournaments. Won 4 titles (1 slam, 1 Masters, 2 WTA500). Only Krejcikova has close results this year and Barty beat her twice in 2 sets.

At this rate she can stay at the top for a very long time if she isn't injured. 1 slam per year is enough if she racks up big points in every Masters.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
She's pretty well guaranteed the YE and that would make 3 consecutive, and yes obviously more of an asterisk 2020 than Novak. But it is what it is and she'll be looking good in 2022.

For reference, we know of the Graf, Seles, Hingis, Henin, Serena eras well. Now recently Halep had a long run and won 2 Slams and that's kind of where Barty is now, but I think she'll go further than that personally, she already has 85+ consecutive weeks that are likely to stretch into triple digits, and that's a territory only 4 other women have attained.
Why does Novak get an asterisk for 2020, when he won a slam, got to another slam final, and wasn't even allowed to defend his Wimbledon title? The guy was on his best winning streak to start the season since 2011, winning ATP Cup, AO and Dubai...comes back and wins Cincinnati and Rome. He was already the better player at the start of the year by far, if anything, his momentum was cut right down.
 
D

Deleted member 771911

Guest
Of course she’ll deserve it. She’s no 1 when her rivals are distracted and can’t get it together to be no.1. She’s won RG and Wimbledon and WTA finals. More slams are in the way and it’s unfortunate for her one of the slams is her home slam where she’ll feel extraordinary pressure. She’s very popular among tennis pros and legends and embodies very classic values of tennis and sport in general. She totally deserves it.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Not even sure why Djo is mentioned in the same thread as Barty. Top player and career. Great champion, gracious, and likeable. Deserves all the accolades and success through all that.
 

gadge

Professional
Barty is clearly the best player at the moment but I just feel a bit weird putting her name along Serena, henin, Graf, Hingis… but that’s wta these days.

hopefully she does well at USO this year to solidify her status furthermore.

she tends to loose sometimes in a very bizarre manner against very ordinary players by her standards case in point wang qiang, riske, sorribes tormo. And for some reason, I have a feeling it’s gonna happen at USO although I hope I’m wrong on this.
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
Barty is clearly the best player at the moment but I just feel a bit weird putting her name along Serena, henin, Graf, Hingis… but that’s wta these days.

hopefully she does well at USO this year to solidify her status furthermore.
Your list has the most disparate WTA players in the past thirty years. Barty fits in well
 

gadge

Professional
Your list has the most disparate WTA players in the past thirty years. Barty fits in well
With 2 slams I’d say not yet but that’s just me I guess. They’ve all had multi slam seasons or made multiple slam finals in a year which barty hasn’t but was very consistent on tour.
 

gadge

Professional
I agree Barty choked and should have won anyway, even against Kenin playing the match of her life, but it is a known fact Kenin was juicing last year. Hence why she went from 2 slam finals last year and superhuman fitness to being a nobody again this year.
She had an injury and a fall out with her parents and she wasn’t pounding the ball or was super fast or anything last year. She played mostly smart tennis.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
She's pretty well guaranteed the YE and that would make 3 consecutive, and yes obviously more of an asterisk 2020 than Novak. But it is what it is and she'll be looking good in 2022.

For reference, we know of the Graf, Seles, Hingis, Henin, Serena eras well. Now recently Halep had a long run and won 2 Slams and that's kind of where Barty is now, but I think she'll go further than that personally, she already has 85+ consecutive weeks that are likely to stretch into triple digits, and that's a territory only 4 other women have attained.
Barty is currently on 89 weeks at #1 and counting. She is placed 9th on the all-time list of WTA weeks at #1.

Current top #10:

1. Steffi Graf 377
2. Martina Navratilova 332
3. Serena Williams 319
4. Chris Evert 260
5. Martina Hingis 209
6. Monica Seles 178
7. Justine Henin 117
8. Lindsay Davenport 98
9. Ashleigh Barty 89
10. Caroline Wozniacki 71
 

gadge

Professional
Barty is currently on 89 weeks at #1 and counting. She is placed 9th on the all-time list of WTA weeks at #1.

Current top #10:

1. Steffi Graf 377
2. Martina Navratilova 332
3. Serena Williams 319
4. Chris Evert 260
5. Martina Hingis 209
6. Monica Seles 178
7. Justine Henin 117
8. Lindsay Davenport 98
9. Ashleigh Barty 89
10. Caroline Wozniacki 71
Wozniacki!!!!! Above Maria vika angie??? It’d have been terrible had she not won that lone slam
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Wozniacki!!!!! Above Maria vika angie??? It’d have been terrible had she not won that lone slam
Azarenka is at no.12 with 51 weeks, Kerber at 14 with 34 weeks, Sharapova joint 17 with Tracy Austin on 21 weeks.
 

fed1

Professional
Win and losses aside it’s nice to have a #1 player on the women’s side who actually plays and supports the tour. Ash gives a great interview and doesn’t make it all about herself, she’s very complimentary about the other girls on tour.
 

Zetty

Hall of Fame
Totally deserved, the only player in the running with her is Osaka who can't string together any consistency or decent play in the clay/grass season. Assumed it would be Swiatek coming for that crown after her breakthru a year ago but oh well.
 

ghostofMecir

Hall of Fame
She's pretty well guaranteed the YE and that would make 3 consecutive, and yes obviously more of an asterisk 2020 than Novak. But it is what it is and she'll be looking good in 2022.

For reference, we know of the Graf, Seles, Hingis, Henin, Serena eras well. Now recently Halep had a long run and won 2 Slams and that's kind of where Barty is now, but I think she'll go further than that personally, she already has 85+ consecutive weeks that are likely to stretch into triple digits, and that's a territory only 4 other women have attained.
She completely deserves everything as seemingly the only player to rise above 50-50 matches and 50-50 sets, and hell, 50-50 games.

That said, Barty at #1 is bad for the WTA for reasons that cannot be openly stated by anyone.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Barty is clearly the best player at the moment but I just feel a bit weird putting her name along Serena, henin, Graf, Hingis… but that’s wta these days.
Well said--it is a leap to call this Barty's "era" and speak of her in the same breath as a GOAT like Graf (quite ridiculous, to be honest), or Serena (who has truly dominated periods of the game). At the moment, Osaka holding two titles at two majors is a far more dominant position for leading an "era" than Barty, who has only managed to make two 4th round USO appearances, but now she's the leader on an "era?" No.
 

Brian11785

Hall of Fame
She completely deserves everything as seemingly the only player to rise above 50-50 matches and 50-50 sets, and hell, 50-50 games.

That said, Barty at #1 is bad for the WTA for reasons that cannot be openly stated by anyone.
I’d like to know what you’re getting at.

Her game and stoic demeanor is very attractive to fans of tennis who actually know/understand/play tennis. But I could see it not being overly appealing to the average casual person like the pure power game is. Or the people who claim women’s tennis is boring without the players actually hating each other or without it being some overly emotional female version of a minstrel show.

And Ash isn’t going to be posing for any Vanity Fair covers like Sharapova, Serena or Osaka. Is that what you’re saying? If so, that’s an indictment of our shallow, image-centered society more than it’s Ash’s issue.
 
Last edited:

fed1

Professional
Well said--it is a leap to call this Barty's "era" and speak of her in the same breath as a GOAT like Graf (quite ridiculous, to be honest), or Serena (who has truly dominated periods of the game). At the moment, Osaka holding two titles at two majors is a far more dominant position for leading an "era" than Barty, who has only managed to make two 4th round USO appearances, but now she's the leader on an "era?" No.
I agree that it’s early to completely say that its the “Barty Era” but it’s headed in the right direction. Osaka may have been dominant on the hard courts but she’s completely irrelevant on clay and grass. Barty’s game is much more complete and she is head and shoulders ahead of Osaka in the emotional makeup department.
 

fed1

Professional
How can it be her era when Osaka has 4 slams in last 4 seasons while Barty only 2.
2021 and Barty is out of COVID lockdown and the playing field is level:
Osaka has one title, albeit a Grand Slam. Not even another final on the resume this year.
Barty has 5 titles, 1 Grand Slam, 2 1000’s and made another 1000 final.
Who’s trending in the right direction??
 

BGod

Legend
How can it be her era when Osaka has 4 slams in last 4 seasons while Barty only 2.
Not to compare Osaka to Becker but it's kinda comparable to how Lendl was leading him in the 80s. Osaka is pretty streaky as well and 4 Slams in 4 seasons is nothing special historically. Capriati won 3 in 5, Vicario won 4, Sharapova won 5 despite few weeks at #1.
 

zvelf

Hall of Fame
It's too early to say Barty has an era, but she is easily the most dominant female player this year and at the moment, she has no serious rivals. Osaka just doesn't have the consistency or the mental game at the moment. Maybe that will change. I had expected Andreescu and Swiatek to do some damage this year, but Andreescu was coming back from injury (again) and has just been unable to get match savvy. Swiatek seems to have lost her mental edge.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
I agree that it’s early to completely say that its the “Barty Era” but it’s headed in the right direction.
Not with her abysmal USO record.

Osaka may have been dominant on the hard courts but she’s completely irrelevant on clay and grass. Barty’s game is much more complete and she is head and shoulders ahead of Osaka in the emotional makeup department.
If her game was "more complete", she would have a USO or AO--she does not, and as of this posting, has no feel for hardcourts at all. Further, Osaka just won her second AO this year so she is the most dominant force at the event, as well as going into the 2021 USO as defending champion. Barty is not on the level of winning more than one of any major, so there's no way--with any honest awareness of tennis history--to say this is a "Barty era" by any stretch of the imagination.
 

fed1

Professional
Not with her abysmal USO record.



If her game was "more complete", she would have a USO or AO--she does not, and as of this posting, has no feel for hardcourts at all. Further, Osaka just won her second AO this year so she is the most dominant force at the event, as well as going into the 2021 USO as defending champion. Barty is not on the level of winning more than one of any major, so there's no way--with any honest awareness of tennis history--to say this is a "Barty era" by any stretch of the imagination.
Barty doesn't have a more complete game than Osaka???? Come on man that's where you lose all credibility. I also love "has no feel for hardcourts at all", she has two WTA 1000'S this year, on guess what.....hardcourts!!!! She must be just winging it out there :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .
Osaka is great on hardcourts, when she is mentally and physically engaged but the tour plays on other surfaces. Let me know when she becomes relevant on clay or grass.
Read my other posts, I never said this was the Barty era yet, but it's trending in the right direction.
 

BGod

Legend
Barty is currently on 89 weeks at #1 and counting. She is placed 9th on the all-time list of WTA weeks at #1.

Current top #10:

1. Steffi Graf 377
2. Martina Navratilova 332
3. Serena Williams 319
4. Chris Evert 260
5. Martina Hingis 209
6. Monica Seles 178
7. Justine Henin 117
8. Lindsay Davenport 98
9. Ashleigh Barty 89
10. Caroline Wozniacki 71
This makes her look even better in comparison to like a Lleyton Hewitt. She not only has those 85 consecutive weeks and will become the 5th woman to have 100+ consecutively but she could feasibly be at 7th all-time ahead of Henin just next year. Unfortunately it gets steep after that with Seles way ahead. And my word I constantly forget how long Hingis kept that crown but that's the highest feasible mark she can shoot for.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Barty doesn't have a more complete game than Osaka????
You've yet to demonstrate how her game is more "complete"--and if you claim its due to her winning a French Open and Wimbledon title (meaning surface variety), then by that criteria, Kerber is more of a complete player than Barty, since she won a Wimbledon, Australian Open and a US Open title.


Come on man that's where you lose all credibility. I also love "has no feel for hardcourts at all", she has two WTA 1000'S this year, on guess what.....hardcourts!!!!
You know i'm talking about the majors--specifically the US Open, and yes, her poor results there means she has no feel for playing the event up to this point, unless she's won some alternate universe US Open titles and its keeping it a secret from the real world.


Osaka is great on hardcourts, when she is mentally and physically engaged but the tour plays on other surfaces. Let me know when she becomes relevant on clay or grass.
Read my other posts, I never said this was the Barty era yet, but it's trending in the right direction.
To those who are trying to force an era / standard bearer title on Barty, its patently ridiculous, as she has not even one USO or AO title as of this date, and yet Kerber has three of the four majors' titles and she--as she was winning those titles was not the namesake for an era? Some are desperately creating a Barty bandwagon to jump on and selling themselves that she's some near-legend in the making, when her game--good as it is--is not game-changing, or remarkable, for that matter.
 
Last edited:

dumb-person

Rookie
You've yet to demonstrate how her game is more "complete"--and if you claim its due to her winning a French Open and Wimbledon title (meaning surface variety), then by that criteria, Kerber is more of a complete player than Barty, since she won a Wimbledon, Australian Open and a US Open title.
Of course Barty has more complete game. She has a good touch, strong netgame (for WTA standard), can use slice effectively, she is good at defence and counter-punching and even her first and second serve is better despite being 13cm shorter than Osaka.

Just watch her match against Teichmann, how she was approaching the net winning lot of rallies there, she even hit return dropshot winner - you wont get it from Osaka, lol.

Osaka has very little variety compared to Ashleigh, she is just limited player.
 

fed1

Professional
Of course Barty has more complete game. She has a good touch, strong netgame (for WTA standard), can use slice effectively, she is good at defence and counter-punching and even her first and second serve is better despite being 13cm shorter than Osaka.

Just watch her match against Teichmann, how she was approaching the net winning lot of rallies there, she even hit return dropshot winner - you wont get it from Osaka, lol.

Osaka has very little variety compared to Ashleigh, she is just limited player.
Thank you!! But there are some people you just won't get through to!! I think we found one ;) no matter how glaringly obvious it is !!!
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Of course Barty has more complete game. She has a good touch, strong netgame (for WTA standard), can use slice effectively, she is good at defence and counter-punching and even her first and second serve is better despite being 13cm shorter than Osaka.
All of this while not noting any of Osaka's skills which earned her majors, and as noted earlier, if fed1's criteria for having an allegedly "complete" game is a reference to winning the FO and Wimbledon, then Kerber has a more complete game than Barty without a doubt, with her three titles at three different majors. Further, if Barty has this allegedly "complete" game, then--as noted before--she would already have HC majors instead of the poor USO showings in a row. You cannot have it both ways.

Just watch her match against Teichmann, how she was approaching the net winning lot of rallies there, she even hit return dropshot winner - you wont get it from Osaka, lol.
I watched the match; Barty coming to the net is not some revelation in the sport, as many players have that as part of their skillset.

Osaka has very little variety compared to Ashleigh, she is just limited player.
..and yet this "limited" player has two AO and two USO titles, showing a strong affinity for the events. She's clearly intelligent, talented and has great influences, whether the little pack of Osaka haters admit it or not.
 
Last edited:

fed1

Professional
All of this while not noting any of Osaka's skills, and as noted earlier, if fed1's criteria for having an allegedly "complete" game is a reference to winning the FO and Wimbledon, then Kerber has a more complete game than Barty without a doubt, with her three titles at three different majors. Further, if Barty has this allegedly "complete" game, then--as noted before--she would she already have HC majors instead of the poor USO showings in a row. You cannot have it both ways.



I watched the match; Barty coming to the net is not some revelation in the sport, as many players have that as part of their skillset.



..and yet this "limited" player has two AO and two USO titles, showing a strong affinity for the events. She's clearly intelligent, talented and has great influences, whether the little pack of Osaka haters admit it or not.
OMG……I have no words:eek::eek:
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Of course not, fed1, because your fanboying over Barty--attempting to make her out to the player of the age--is not supported by her majors results. You avoid comparing her to another contemporary player (Kerber), as she can be easily argued to have a more complete game in order to win on those surfaces. And as far as Osaka goes, you attempt to limit what is clearly a tight, strong game not relying on one skillset. Osaka's two USO and two AO majors are no fluke. You can continue the effort of creating a Barty bandwagon, but her USO results up to this time do not indicate great skills to win the event up to this date. If that changes, fine, but at the moment, you have her history at the event, and its not good for one you lift so high above the entire field.
 

dumb-person

Rookie
All of this while not noting any of Osaka's skills which earned her majors, and as noted earlier, if fed1's criteria for having an allegedly "complete" game is a reference to winning the FO and Wimbledon, then Kerber has a more complete game than Barty without a doubt, with her three titles at three different majors. Further, if Barty has this allegedly "complete" game, then--as noted before--she would already have HC majors instead of the poor USO showings in a row. You cannot have it both ways.
Why would i note Osaka skills if all i wanted to say is that Barty is more complete player. Osaka is obviously skilled enough to win a major, she has won four of them, her strenghts are obviously strong enough to make her an absolute top player, which doesnt mean her game is as complete as Ash Barty. Im not using any major as reference so dont pull some USO showings in a front of me because i could do the same with Osaka at literally any non-hard court tournament. Ashleigh Barty is good enough on hard court as she has won two Miami titles (in a row!), Cincinnati and YEC (where she had to beat only top8 players).

Stop treating majors as only measurement of greatness.

I watched the match; Barty coming to the net is not some revelation in the sport, as many players have that as part of their skillset.
Of course its not some revelation in the sport because thousands of players have done it before her and after her and obviously many players have that as part of their skillset... it just so happens some do it better and approach the net more often than the others. You can also watch Naomi matches against Golubic or Vondrousova at Olympics to see how both of them were trying to get her to the net where she looked like kid in the fog losing points there very often.

..and yet this "limited" player has two AO and two USO titles, showing a strong affinity for the events. She's clearly intelligent, talented and has great influences, whether the little pack of Osaka haters admit it or not.
You dont need to be complete player to be a champion. Sharapova was one-dimensional player who lacked in some aspects of the game just like Osaka, yet she has won two French Opens and Wimbledon. Fact that Osaka is not complete player doesnt make her worse player automatically. Like i mentioned above her strenghts are good enough to be a top player. Also i have no clue if she is intelligent (i assume she is) or has great influences. It wasnt part of discussion. She is obviously a big talent... You dont win 4 slams without talent.


and no... People who say that Barty is more complete player arent "pack of Osaka haters"... Its just you who seem to be huge fanboy that cannot take any opinion that you dont like on your favorite player.
 

fed1

Professional
Of course not, fed1, because your fanboying over Barty--attempting to make her out to the player of the age--is not supported by her majors results. You avoid comparing her to another contemporary player (Kerber), as she can be easily argued to have a more complete game in order to win on those surfaces. And as far as Osaka goes, you attempt to limit what is clearly a tight, strong game not relying on one skillset. Osaka's two USO and two AO majors are no fluke. You can continue the effort of creating a Barty bandwagon, but her USO results up to this time do not indicate great skills to win the event up to this date. If that changes, fine, but at the moment, you have her history at the event, and its not good for one you lift so high above the entire field.
Ok I’ll engage simply because this is low hanging fruit, you throw Barty’s lack of success at the US Open as your main point but you ignore the fact that Osaka is not even remotely relevant on clay or grass.
i am hardly “fanboying” or declaring this the era of Barty, I’m merely giving you the facts/results of the last 6 months, I mean why let actual results get in the way:rolleyes:, Barty has 5 titles on 3 different surfaces and Osaka has 1 title, a Grand Slam, on hard court.
When people say Barty is a more complete player it’s not meant to take away Osaka’s skills and talents, it just means Barty does a few things better.
 

Aceangel

New User
And Barty didn’t even play the 2020 US Open - poor excuse for a grand slam that it was. She was not the player that she is now two years ago in 2019. Nobody is trying to take away from Osaka’s achievements they are just recognising and appreciating a very talented and consistent performer who at 25 is still in the early stages of her career
 

NADALalot

Hall of Fame
Relied far more on power than Hingis did.
In fact Barty also relies more on power, at least on her serve, than Hingis did.
Hingis 97 is the best example of genius I've ever seen.
Changed her racquet specifications after 97, and her groundstrokes became too timid.
 

gadge

Professional
Relied far more on power than Hingis did.
In fact Barty also relies more on power, at least on her serve, than Hingis did.
And barty doesn’t rely on power at all??? Her forehand is quite powerful compared to hingis and has a lot of spin too. Backhand not so much but compensates it with a great slice like steffi did, not to mention her serve is quite underrated.
 

NADALalot

Hall of Fame
And barty doesn’t rely on power at all??? Her forehand is quite powerful compared to hingis and has a lot of spin too. Backhand not so much but compensates it with a great slice like steffi did, not to mention her serve is quite underrated.
But Hingis took the ball earlier than Barty, at least early in her career.
97 Hingis would boss Barty around, even without much on the serve.
Barty is lucky she never had to deal with prime Williams family.
Hingis is 17-17 vs. Williams family.
 

accidental

Hall of Fame
I had doubts that she was a deserving number 1 earlier this year, but she has been easily the best player over the past 6 months at least. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if she wins multiple other majors in the next few years
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Stop treating majors as only measurement of greatness.
Stop living up to your name. Here's some well-needed information for you: if Djokovic wins the 2021 US Open / the Grand Slam, voices from one end of this world to the other will say he's one of the GOAT players, and they will be justified in doing so. That will have nothing to do with non-majors, weeks at #1, how many semi-finals reached or anything else. The majors are the reason anyone plays professional tennis (with the Grand Slam resting on top of it all), and to deny its importance is an act of utter dishonesty in order to prop up a player who has not earned this hollow "era" title as of this date.


You dont win 4 slams without talent.
That;s not the narrative of this and other threads, where a 4-time majors winner is routinely attacked for her game,.



you throw Barty’s lack of success at the US Open as your main point but you ignore the fact that Osaka is not even remotely relevant on clay or grass.
No, you refuse to acknowledge Barty's failures at the USO and AO in order to build a false claim about what kind of player she is. No sound mind will ever claim just winning the FO and Wimbledon (or other events of different surfaces) makes a player's game "complete" while failing to win at the other two majors, and yes, a player's central interest and goals are the majors. The standard you use to pick at Osaka applies to Barty, no mater how much you are in denial about it.

I've complimented Barty's level of play, but this recent on-bended-knee oversestimation of her skills is ridiculous and unjustified at this stage of her career.
 

Milanez82

Hall of Fame
This makes her look even better in comparison to like a Lleyton Hewitt. She not only has those 85 consecutive weeks and will become the 5th woman to have 100+ consecutively but she could feasibly be at 7th all-time ahead of Henin just next year. Unfortunately it gets steep after that with Seles way ahead. And my word I constantly forget how long Hingis kept that crown but that's the highest feasible mark she can shoot for.
Seles had like 8 slams at age of 19 and then got stabbed
And she overtook Graf as world no1
Mentioning Barty in same sentence is just wrong in any sort of context.
 
Top