Does Chris Evert have a legitimate case to be the GOAT

Evert bought herself a new career at the 1980 US Open, where she finally learned how to cope with Austin and how to manage Hana.That was the turning point of her career.

1971-1980 and 1980-1989 makes so much sense to me as to point that central year of 1980 as her pivotal year.

She reinvented herself at a time when old rivals such as Navratilova and Goolagong had deprived her of 3 consecutive Wimbledon titles...and Austin, Jaeger and Mandlikova seemed to have the future in their hands.
 
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There are many factors that can be used for GOAT determination.

And while this anecdote isn't at the top of the list, I still think it is worth mentioning.

Chris Evert set the standard (that I don't think will ever be matched) for consistently excellent results over a long career. And I want to emphasize the consistency part. In relation to the fact that Chris hardly ever suffered a bad loss in her career. A surprising defeat to a lower ranked player that has happened with every champion in the history of the modern game.

Chris didn't play full time on the women's tour until 1972, when she was 17. How often was Chris knocked out in the 1R of an event in her career? How often was she upset by a much lower ranked opponent?

The answers are telling.

The first time Chris had what can be described as a bad loss was at the 1976 VS Boston event, when she was stunned by Aussie Dianne Fromholtz (who Chris had beaten before). Dianne beat her 6-1,2-6,6-2. Dianne had started to play better at the end of 1975 and had some good result on the Slims circuit in 1976. But her surprising win over Chris was a shocker. Then again, Dianne was on her way to one of the best years of her career - she finished no. 6, and had wins over BJ King, Navratilova, among others that year.

Chris also fell to Greer Stevens in the 1R of the 1979 Avon tournament in Florida. Greer was a top 20 player for a few years, and was always tough on the indoor circuit.

After that, the next bad loss Chris had was in 1983, when she fell to Kathy Jordan in the 3R of Wimbledon. Kathy was a former top 10er who had several wins over top 10 players, and was a very competent grass court player. It was a tough assignment, and yes Chris was ill during the match. Nevertheless, it represented the "worst" loss of Chris career in a major.

The Fromholtz and Stevens losses represent the only times Evert ever lost in the 1R of a tournament in her pro career. (OK, she lost some 2R matches when she had a 1R bye, in 1989. But I'm willing to give her a pass on those, since by that point in her career - bad losses were likely to occur.)

Fromholtz, Stevens, and Jordan all ranked in the top at some point in their career. All were ranked int he top 40 at the time they beat Chris. Which means Chris' worst losses when she was at the top of women's tennis occurred three times in @ 16 years, to top 40 players.

Compare that with records of any other top player - Court, King, Navratilova, Austin, Seles, Graf, Serena Williams.

NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.

That level of sustained excellence and consistency is a supreme accomplishment.

Pro tennis is a tough game. If you're slightly off, a little tired, nursing an injury, lack some motivation, and then facing a hungry player eager to make their mark, you're ripe picking for an upset.

Chris faced many threats throughout her career. She rebuffed nearly 99% of them.

Not bad. Not bad at all!
 
DMan- what a brilliant, yes brilliant post.
I find it a little sad that consistency is an ugly word to some posters on this forum. Hey ho :)
 
DMan- what a brilliant, yes brilliant post.
I find it a little sad that consistency is an ugly word to some posters on this forum. Hey ho :)

Do you think this is an American phenomena, fixating only on peak performances and the highest altitudes of Mount Everest or it is just as true in Europe, South America, Australia and Britain?
,
 
Chris Evert set the standard (that I don't think will ever be matched) for consistently excellent results over a long career.
No she didn't.

Suzanne Lenglen, Helen Wills Moody and Margaret Court did it better first. Don't get it twisted. Chris failed more often later in grand slam finals than the two latter which is why they are viewed more favorably than her historically. Chris was great, but not GOAT great. Go bye.


#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB
 
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No she didn't.

Suzanne Lenglen, Helen Wills Moody and Margaret Court did it better first. Don't get it twisted. Chris failed more often later in grand slam finals than the two latter which is why they are viewed more favorably than her historically. Chris was great, but not GOAT great. Go bye.


#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB

Delete post. Not worth it.
 
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Do you think this is an American phenomena, fixating only on peak performances and the highest altitudes of Mount Everest or it is just as true in Europe, South America, Australia and Britain?
,

I can only write re my opinion from an English perspective, and my own beliefs: it would appear that some of the loudest, and lengthiest, comments on this forum belong to Americans who seem to denigrate consistency, but generally to beef up Serena Williams cv. They cconcentrate on the highs and rarely on the lows- and to this aim generally rubbish Evert. I suspect the legacy of Evert is much more warmly embraced in Europe, but that has much to do with her grace on court, and sportsmanship. I think she became more popular once she wasn't winning everything, and marrying John Lloyd helped! That said, she's incredibly popular in France, but her RG record, plus her femininity is highly regarded by the French.
I think the answer is probably 'yes' consistency is more highly regarded "across the pond". Would Henman be more popular had he won Wimbledon? Yes. But does he remain a popular figure in Britain to this day? Undoubtedly yes.
There are players that remain in the public consciousness- I think there are very few who don't think fondly of Evert, and all she stood for. It definitely helped that she wasn't a 'showy' champion- maybe that's the biggest difference?
 
No she didn't.

Suzanne Lenglen, Helen Wills Moody and Margaret Court did it better first. Don't get it twisted. Chris failed more often later in grand slam finals than the two latter which is why they are viewed more favorably than her historically. Chris was great, but not GOAT great. Go bye.


#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB

If angieb is the 'voice of america' then I rest my case. And also she stated only yesterday that she doesn't believe in the concept of GOAT, so as she's not consistent with her own opinions, it's hardly suprising she doesn't value Evert's incredible consistency:
And I quote:
I don't buy-into the "GOAT' ridiculousness. Every generation has its premier players who were the best of their era. AngieB
 
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Do you think this is an American phenomena, fixating only on peak performances and the highest altitudes of Mount Everest or it is just as true in Europe, South America, Australia and Britain?
,

I think it's pretty even in the UK. I would say we used to lean towards peak but since Federer, Nadal et al started smashing all the records we've become obsessed (perhaps a little too obsessed) with pure numbers.

I remember reading an article from The Independent newspaper - published in 1999 - ranking the 100 greatest sportsmen and women of the 20th Century. McEnroe was in the Top 20. Laver and Navratilova were the only Tennis players above him.

Thinking about others sports for a second, Maradona and George Best have always been held in as high a regard as Pele.

We have always loved a good "Bad Boy" though...
 
I can only write re my opinion from an English perspective, and my own beliefs: it would appear that some of the loudest, and lengthiest, comments on this forum belong to Americans who seem to denigrate consistency, but generally to beef up Serena Williams cv. They cconcentrate on the highs and rarely on the lows- and to this aim generally rubbish Evert. I suspect the legacy of Evert is much more warmly embraced in Europe, but that has much to do with her grace on court, and sportsmanship. I think she became more popular once she wasn't winning everything, and marrying John Lloyd helped! That said, she's incredibly popular in France, but her RG record, plus her femininity is highly regarded by the French.
I think the answer is probably 'yes' consistency is more highly regarded "across the pond". Would Henman be more popular had he won Wimbledon? Yes. But does he remain a popular figure in Britain to this day? Undoubtedly yes.
There are players that remain in the public consciousness- I think there are very few who don't think fondly of Evert, and all she stood for. It definitely helped that she wasn't a 'showy' champion- maybe that's the biggest difference?

This American notion of greatness, separated almost entirely from consistency, long precedes Serena Williams . Its been true as long as I've followed tennis. Oh they've give a nod of respect to baseball players or golfers, or tennis players who have consistency records, but its nothing more than a nod of respect. It never 'blows their mind' to imagine the achievements and it certainly is not lauded. I am a bit unusual in that Evert's consistency records 'blow my mind' more than Martina's sheer numbers of titles, Wimbledons, or matches won. . Americans who think about Evert, have always seemed more impressed with Evert's 7 RG titles, or her 125 consecutive clay victories, than her consistency records that 'blow my mind'. They like mostest/ best records and streaks a lot over here and they have for a long time.
 
This American notion of greatness, separated almost entirely from consistency, long precedes Serena Williams . Its been true as long as I've followed tennis. Oh they've give a nod of respect to baseball players or golfers, or tennis players who have consistency records, but its nothing more than a nod of respect. It never 'blows their mind' to imagine the achievements and it certainly is not lauded. I am a bit unusual in that Evert's consistency records 'blow my mind' more than Martina's sheer numbers of titles, Wimbledons, or matches won. . Americans who think about Evert, have always seemed more impressed with Evert's 7 RG titles, or her 125 consecutive clay victories, than her consistency records that 'blow my mind'. They like mostest/ best records and streaks a lot over here and they have for a long time.

So what you're basically saying is that Americans don't major in minors? :wink:
 
So what you're basically saying is that Americans don't major in minors? :wink:

No. What he is saying is that Americans are too shallow to value consistency.

They prefer the "flash-in-the-pan."

Given that the United States enjoys the richest history in winning grand slam events (the most of any country on Earth), I think Americans #majors in #majors. 18-16 is a quagmire by which someone #majored in #majors and #minored in #majors as well.


#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​
 
So what you're basically saying is that Americans don't major in minors? :wink:

LOL, some don't notice when someone majors in losing in minor rounds of majors! If a player did not even get close to winning it, we can pretend he or she did not play in it. Players get as many free do-overs as they want to impress us.
 
LOL, some don't notice when someone majors in losing in minor rounds of majors! If a player did not even get close to winning it, we can pretend he or she did not play in it. Players get as many free do-overs as they want to impress us.

According to AngieB, to lose in the 1st round of a Slam is majoring more than losing in the final which is most certainly taking a trip down Minor Lane! Haha, I just love this forum at times! :)
 
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According to AngieB, to lose in the 1st round of a Slam is majoring more than losing in the final which is most certainly taking a trip down Minor Lane! Haha, I just love this forum at times! :)

Well it certainly is less complicated if you just count to 24 or 18 or 12 or 4. Its evidently what the IHF does to decide these things.
 
According to AngieB, to lose in the 1st round of a Slam is majoring more than losing in the final which is most certainly taking a trip down Minor Lane! Haha, I just love this forum at times! :)
I looked everywhere in this thread and didn't see where I said anything of the sort.

I would like to clarify that in the eyes of the ITHOF, it doesn't matter if you lost in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, quarterfinals, semifinals or finals of a grand slam singles event. As a former player, If you didn't win a grand slam event, you will not likely grace the halls. They may mention a brief narrative of #minor career milestones, but the focus is/has and will always be Grand Slam Wins, and a listing of Olympic Tennis Fed/Davis Cup/Wightman Cup participation as Career Achievements.

The ITHOF's quoted a small narrative written by Ted Tinling wouldn't even mention Chris' 18-16 record in grand slam finals because of her record 16 losses in grand slam singles finals (stands alone). He did mention in his small narrative about her 52 of 56 grand slam semifinal appearances because that is favorably noteworthy.

Was Chris a great player? Sure, as great as many before her. But just as she is known for winning a large number of grand slam events, she is equally known for many losses in the latest stage of grand slam events that could have otherwise catapulted her beyond any other player in tennis history. THAT is why she doesn't have a legitimate case to be the mythical "GOAT". Go bye.


#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​
 
I looked everywhere in this thread and didn't see where I said anything of the sort.

I would like to clarify that in the eyes of the ITHOF, it doesn't matter if you lost in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, quarterfinals, semifinals or finals of a grand slam singles event. As a former player, If you didn't win a grand slam event, you will not likely grace the halls. They may mention a brief narrative of #minor career milestones, but the focus is/has and will always be Grand Slam Wins, and a listing of Olympic Tennis Fed/Davis Cup/Wightman Cup participation as Career Achievements.

The ITHOF's quoted a small narrative written by Ted Tinling wouldn't even mention Chris' 18-16 record in grand slam finals because of her record 16 losses in grand slam singles finals (stands alone). He did mention in his small narrative about her 52 of 56 grand slam semifinal appearances because that is favorably noteworthy.

Was Chris a great player? Sure, as great as many before her. But just as she is known for winning a large number of grand slam events, she is equally known for many losses in the latest stage of grand slam events that could have otherwise catapulted her beyond any other player in tennis history. THAT is why she doesn't have a legitimate case to be the mythical "GOAT". Go bye.


#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​

Come on AngieB - you might not have said it but you know you're always implying it :lol: The bottom line is that while winning is obviously the most important thing, reaching a final is also noteworthy. You receive a plate, 1000 + ranking points and a helluva lot more money than you would if you'd lost in an earlier round.

I also wasn't aware that Evert was some "mythical GOAT" but in my opinion she has more right to that claim than someone like Serena does whose consistency is quite frankly a country mile off what Chris' was in her prime(and even after). Yes, Serena's only ever lost four times in a Slam final and her W-L% at that stage is much better but don't you ever think to yourself why she's only ever lost four finals? Because she obviously crashed out a lot more often before that stage!! :)
 
Come on AngieB - you might not have said it but you know you're always implying it :lol: The bottom line is that while winning is obviously the most important thing, reaching a final is also noteworthy. You receive a plate, 1000 + ranking points and a helluva lot more money than you would if you'd lost in an earlier round.

I also wasn't aware that Evert was some "mythical GOAT" but in my opinion she has more right to that claim than someone like Serena does whose consistency is quite frankly a country mile off what Chris' was in her prime(and even after). Yes, Serena's only ever lost four times in a Slam final and her W-L% at that stage is much better but don't you ever think to yourself why she's only ever lost four finals? Because she obviously crashed out a lot more often before that stage!! :)

Reaching the finals of a grand slam event holds value when discussing a players career as a whole, but it is not considered as induction-worthy criteria into the ITHOF. How much money you won during a career isn't an induction criteria into the ITHOF. 1000 ranking points in 2014 standard cannot get you inducted into the ITHOF. Irrelevant.

I don't understand why you mention Serena other than she equals Chris Evert's grand slam singles count. In my opinion, Chris should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Serena when discussing grand slam finals excellence. Serena was unrivaled throughout her career. The same cannot be said for Chris Evert.


#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB
 
Reaching the finals of a grand slam event holds value when discussing a player's career as a whole, but it is not considered as induction-worthy criteria into the ITHOF. How much money you won during a career isn't an induction criteria into the ITHOF. 1000 ranking points in 2014 standard cannot get you inducted into the ITHOF. Irrelevant.

I don't understand why you mention Serena other than she equals Chris Evert's grand slam singles count. In my opinion, Chris should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Serena when discussing grand slam finals excellence. Serena was unrivaled throughout her career. The same cannot be said for Chris Evert.


#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB

Exactly! Which is precisely why Evert should be ranked above Serena in the first place!! :)
 
I can only write re my opinion from an English perspective, and my own beliefs: it would appear that some of the loudest, and lengthiest, comments on this forum belong to Americans who seem to denigrate consistency, but generally to beef up Serena Williams cv. They cconcentrate on the highs and rarely on the lows- and to this aim generally rubbish Evert. I suspect the legacy of Evert is much more warmly embraced in Europe, but that has much to do with her grace on court, and sportsmanship. I think she became more popular once she wasn't winning everything, and marrying John Lloyd helped! That said, she's incredibly popular in France, but her RG record, plus her femininity is highly regarded by the French.
I think the answer is probably 'yes' consistency is more highly regarded "across the pond". Would Henman be more popular had he won Wimbledon? Yes. But does he remain a popular figure in Britain to this day? Undoubtedly yes.
There are players that remain in the public consciousness- I think there are very few who don't think fondly of Evert, and all she stood for. It definitely helped that she wasn't a 'showy' champion- maybe that's the biggest difference?

Lol the irony. Lengthy post after lengthy post from Evert fans denigrating Serena's accomplishments because she played a bunch of slams in compromised condition and got bounced early. If she sat them out, she would have an amazing winning percentage. Big deal; she would still have her name engraved on the same number of trophies. I AM an American and we do value winning and hate losing in general. Maybe these young Stephens and Querry types don't care, but traditionally that's how we roll (not saying it's right or wrong, but I think there is truth to that). Anyway, I'm glad I didn't have to watch the same player get the best of Serena in final after final. I would probably have died of a heart attack (or choked on my own vomit if it was Sharapova)(just kidding, please no attack of the pova trolls!). :D

Anyway, Chrissy's consistency is amazing and praiseworthy and I get she deservedly has a lot of fans, but I wish you guys would get off your high horses. You don't need to put Serena down to make Chrissy great...we all have our faves for different reasons. I hated seeing BJK get surpassed by Chrissy and Martina, but I just picked a side and enjoyed the new show even though I loved Billie Jean the best. Graf bored me to death, I got busy with adult life, quit watching and eventually didn't even have a TV to watch her on anyway. That doesn't mean I have to elevate doubles to the most important thing in he world so Nav can be goat and then insult all of Graf's fans as being shallow for not valuing doubles (or whatever nitpicky thing I can come up with to support my feelings). At a certain point they're all great, why hate?

I guess I AM on the major highway with Angie and I'm enjoying watching a legend play out the rest of her career. Whenever Serena exits a major early, I turn into a rest stop, enjoy a little refreshment, and continue on. There is enough KoolAid for all of us. Won't you join us?

Edit: even though I quoted PDJ, I'm not directing this post directly at you, just in a general direction to the Chrissy fans who are always snearing at my beloved Serena. :cry: Leave Serena alone! :cry:
 
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Grand slam wins are only one factor. Serena may surpass Chrissie's GS total in the next year or two...maybe. And, there were some years that Chris did not play in all the GS events. Which in the modern day, everyone forgets when looking at the men and the women from the 70's to early 80's.

Chris was incredibly consistent and had a record on clay that is second to none.

And, she still has more total # of weeks at #1.

And far more titles.

Serena is great, no question. But has she really passed Evert's career markers? No.
 
Lol the irony. Lengthy post after lengthy post from Evert fans denigrating Serena's accomplishments because she played a bunch of slams in compromised condition and got bounced early. If she sat them out, she would have an amazing winning percentage. Big deal; she would still have her name engraved on the same number of trophies. I AM an American and we do value winning and hate losing in general. Maybe these young Stephens and Querry types don't care, but traditionally that's how we roll (not saying it's right or wrong, but I think there is truth to that). Anyway, I'm glad I didn't have to watch the same player get the best of Serena in final after final. I would probably have died of a heart attack (or choked on my own vomit if it was Sharapova)(just kidding, please no attack of the pova trolls!). :D

Anyway, Chrissy's consistency is amazing and praiseworthy and I get she deservedly has a lot of fans, but I wish you guys would get off your high horses. You don't need to put Serena down to make Chrissy great...we all have our faves for different reasons. I hated seeing BJK get surpassed by Chrissy and Martina, but I just picked a side and enjoyed the new show even though I loved Billie Jean the best. Graf bored me to death, I got busy with adult life, quit watching and eventually didn't even have a TV to watch her on anyway. That doesn't mean I have to elevate doubles to the most important thing in he world so Nav can be goat and then insult all of Graf's fans as being shallow for not valuing doubles (or whatever nitpicky thing I can come up with to support my feelings). At a certain point they're all great, why hate?

I guess I AM on the major highway with Angie and I'm enjoying watching a legend play out the rest of her career. Whenever Serena exits a major early, I turn into a rest stop, enjoy a little refreshment, and continue on. There is enough KoolAid for all of us. Won't you join us?

Edit: even though I quoted PDJ, I'm not directing this post directly at you, just in a general direction to the Chrissy fans who are always snearing at my beloved Serena. :cry: Leave Serena alone! :cry:

Dearest Vanhool. I don't take it personally, but would humbly suggest you re-read my response to Bturner's question (which he asked me) re consistency and perception globally. I don't believe I criticised Serena Williams as such, just the viewpoint of some of her fans on THIS forum. And the xenophobic rants that I've read on many occasions. Obviously, we all can't admire the same players - that would be very dull- but we can respect the opinions of others. I will admit to being defensive of Evert, as she has the qualities I most admire in a champion. What I have taken exception to, and I'm happy to name names, is when certain posters have (on deleted threads- Serena thread =delete) found it appropriate to bring up Evert's personal life in a vindictive, spiteful manner just to shore up SW. Disgusting. Have you ever read a post of mine when I've referred to any players off-court life? No. And, trust me I'm sorely tempted. But I don't, because I believe that to be ungracious and unnecessary- and may be that's why I admire Chris Evert, Champion.
Now where's that mulled wine :)
 
Dearest Vanhool. I don't take it personally, but would humbly suggest you re-read my response to Bturner's question (which he asked me) re consistency and perception globally. I don't believe I criticised Serena Williams as such, just the viewpoint of some of her fans on THIS forum. And the xenophobic rants that I've read on many occasions. Obviously, we all can't admire the same players - that would be very dull- but we can respect the opinions of others. I will admit to being defensive of Evert, as she has the qualities I most admire in a champion. What I have taken exception to, and I'm happy to name names, is when certain posters have (on deleted threads- Serena thread =delete) found it appropriate to bring up Evert's personal life in a vindictive, spiteful manner just to shore up SW. Disgusting. Have you ever read a post of mine when I've referred to any players off-court life? No. And, trust me I'm sorely tempted. But I don't, because I believe that to be ungracious and unnecessary- and may be that's why I admire Chris Evert, Champion.
Now where's that mulled wine :)
Oh...I know which distasteful posts you are referring to and I agree with your revulsion. And, I don't think there was anything wrong with Chrissy's personal life anyway! Well, I don't know how this thread has ended up having so much emphasis on Serena anyway...maybe she's seen as the easiest goat candidate for Chrissy to knock off in the quest for proving her goathood. Chrissy will always be mentioned amongst the best, as she was a great champion. Many glasses of mulled wine will be consumed before the goat arguments are ever settled...I guess it's the journey not the destination. Goodnight for now :)
 
I looked everywhere in this thread and didn't see where I said anything of the sort.

I would like to clarify that in the eyes of the ITHOF, it doesn't matter if you lost in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, quarterfinals, semifinals or finals of a grand slam singles event. As a former player, If you didn't win a grand slam event, you will not likely grace the halls. They may mention a brief narrative of #minor career milestones, but the focus is/has and will always be Grand Slam Wins, and a listing of Olympic Tennis Fed/Davis Cup/Wightman Cup participation as Career Achievements.

The ITHOF's quoted a small narrative written by Ted Tinling wouldn't even mention Chris' 18-16 record in grand slam finals because of her record 16 losses in grand slam singles finals (stands alone). He did mention in his small narrative about her 52 of 56 grand slam semifinal appearances because that is favorably noteworthy.

Was Chris a great player? Sure, as great as many before her. But just as she is known for winning a large number of grand slam events, she is equally known for many losses in the latest stage of grand slam events that could have otherwise catapulted her beyond any other player in tennis history. THAT is why she doesn't have a legitimate case to be the mythical "GOAT". Go bye.


#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​

Doesn't the IntHoF entry for Evert include the phrase "America's Sweetheart" which you took exception to elsewhere. Hey ho. I never mind you referring to the HoF as often as you do, because I'm always reminded that Evert was the sole inductee, never happened before or since, such is her legacy. And a former American President honoured the event. Not too shabby.
 
And, I don't think there was anything wrong with Chrissy's personal life anyway! )
Speaking of Chrissy's personal life, her ex-boyfriend, Burt Reynolds, just sold his Trans Am.

article-2268473-172A2B14000005DC-760_308x425.jpg

http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/16/autos/burt-reynolds-smokey-bandit-trans-am/

The Pontiac Trans Am owned by Burt Reynolds and based on the one in his movie Smokey and the Bandit sold at auction for $450,000.

The car was only expected to fetch between $60,000 to $80,000, but fans of the 1977 movie started a bidding war that pushed the price up Monday.

The sale was part of Reynolds' private collection and never actually appeared in the movie or its two sequels. Reynolds sold a large collection of his memorabilia through Julien's Auctions at the Palms Casino Resort in Las Vegas.

Other items sold include a red nylon Bandit jacket that Reynolds wore in the movie which went for $34,375, a pair of Bandit cowboy boots when went for $20,000 and go cart version of the Trans Am which went for $13,750.

The auction also included items from his other films, such as the canoe used in his movie Deliverance, which went for $17,500, and the football helmet he wore in The Longest Yard, which sold for $11,250.

The catalog of items he was selling ran more than 200 pages. Reynolds, who is 78, said that he was selling the items because "it is time to downsize" and find new homes for the items.

"It is bittersweet for me to let these things go as I no longer have room for them," he wrote. "At this stage of my life I find it very difficult to manage them all."


#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB
 
Impact 25: Serena Williams Serves Up Some Ambitious Goals For 2015



By Chris Evert | Dec 16, 2014
ESPN The Magazine

This year, Serena Williams won yet another singles major, giving her 18 for her career and making her a cinch for espnW's Impact 25 and ESPN The Magazine's Interview Issue, where she sat down with fellow 18-Slam winner Chris Evert.

Chris Evert: How have you managed to develop such a great friendship with Caroline Wozniacki? Martina Navratilova and I are good friends now, but when we were No. 1 and No. 2 in the world, we really weren't that close.

Serena Williams: I have had a love for Caroline from the day I met her. And then when times were tough for her and for me, we were always there for each other. Then it became texting once and then twice, and now we just text all day, every day. It's just really fun to get to know someone that you are on tour with and travel with, and that knows what you're going through, both on the court and off the court. We talk about how things are different for different players growing up. For me and Venus, not playing junior tennis was good for us. I asked her, "What was it like to play the juniors?" I never knew Junior Wimbledon existed until I was a few years on tour, I'm embarrassed to say. I didn't realize that there was actually a junior event.

Your dad (also Williams' former coach) didn't guide you into junior tennis. Was that something people raised their eyebrows about?

Yes. And now I think if I had to play Junior Wimbledon and Junior French Open and all these tournaments, either I would have been really tired or kind of jaded after a certain amount of years. I would have been like, "Well, I've been doing this for so long." Maybe it's one of the reasons I'm able to play a lot longer, because I started differently.

Do you love to win or hate to lose?

The feeling of winning isn't the same for me as the feeling of losing a match, emotionally. And I think that's one of the reasons why I still play, because if I didn't have a desire to be out there, I wouldn't. I hate to lose a lot.

After a devastating first-round exit in the 2012 French Open, you turned to Patrick Mouratoglou for some coaching, then had a dynamite year in 2013. What did he see in your game?

It wasn't what he saw, it was just what he did. He didn't make me feel like I was changing anything. I think my foundation was strong enough that we just added to it. I was recently watching my old matches on YouTube. I found matches in 2009, 2010 and 2011, and I definitely have to say I think I'm a better player than I was then. I'm smoother. I move better on the court. I'm lighter on the court. My game looks a lot easier, like I'm not trying as hard. It's a lot more effortless.

Going into last year, you said your goal was to make fewer errors. What do you want to change about your game in 2015?

Well, I want to move a lot faster on the court. I want to be more dynamic and just completely awesome out there. And I need to bring my serve back. My serve in 2014 was a little disappointing for me. I want my 2013 serve back, but a better version of that for 2015. I had so many double faults this year: I was hitting, like, seven in a match, and it was driving me insane. When I'm missing, I'm thinking, "Get it in," which is not the right way to think. I am way too much of a perfectionist. I will practice on the court and three hours later I'm doing the same shot without taking a water break. And I'm like, "Serena, please quit" in my head. And then another part of my brain is like, "You've got to get it right." But I made some changes this summer, and in Cincinnati (in August at the Western & Southern Open, which Williams won) I did a ton better. Patrick gave me some great hints, especially on my second serve.

You're 33 now. Do you have days you wake up and it's like, "Oh, I just want to stay in bed"?

For sure I do. But I think that's normal. We play so many matches a year, I'm not going to be ready to play all of them. One or two of those matches I'm going to be like, "I don't want to go." But for me, the long-term picture is "I don't want to go to that particular match," but I definitely want to go to the end of the road. And that's what keeps me going; I'm not ready for it to end.

You are the most famous female athlete in the world right now. And I know you're a private person. Is there a price to pay?

I'm so used to it. And now I embrace it and appreciate it more. When I go out, I'm ready. I remember when everyone wanted your autograph. Now everyone wants a picture. The camera phone is the best thing and the worst thing ever invented. Now I have it down. I wear sleeves because of my arms. That's what I realized gets recognized the fastest, so I always wear something long-sleeved, something really loose and a nice hat.

Interesting. I'll be looking for you with that long shirt.

You won't spot me. My assistant was trying to find me in New York once. And I'm like, "I'm outside." He didn't see me, and he walked right past me. I was just laughing.

Eighteen Grand Slams now. You're in the club. How much further can you go?

Well, it's no secret. I'm going for the gusto. I'm going to try to catch up with Steffi (Graf, who won 22 Grand Slam titles). But right now I'm really focused on 19, which will begin in Australia. Whether I get there or not, I don't know. But I know if I get to 19, the second it happens I will be thinking of 20.

One time in my life I would love to hit a ball with you.

It would be different to play someone who's won 18 grand slams. I don't know how I would feel. Do you want to play, Chrissie? Let's play this weekend so I can feel how it feels.
 
Oh...I know which distasteful posts you are referring to and I agree with your revulsion. And, I don't think there was anything wrong with Chrissy's personal life anyway! Well, I don't know how this thread has ended up having so much emphasis on Serena anyway...maybe she's seen as the easiest goat candidate for Chrissy to knock off in the quest for proving her goathood. Chrissy will always be mentioned amongst the best, as she was a great champion. Many glasses of mulled wine will be consumed before the goat arguments are ever settled...I guess it's the journey not the destination. Goodnight for now :)

I agree with those that think it difficult to name the best ever- and our own personal criteria, and indeed bias, will always creep in. I think it's fair to say Evert has a claim to be one of the best ever to hit a tennis ball. That's more than enough for me.
Just about to fly to England for Christmas. There's no place like home- to quote an American classic ;)
 
I'd personally rank anyone who got close to or have double digits slam titles as being one of the best ever. In regards to who is the best well thats harder because a lot of factors have to come into play and most of the time those factors are used to suit 1 player and denigrate another. People should notice everyone has "holes" in their career that someone could easily use against that certain player to disprove that he/she is the GOAT. So to answer the OP's question. Does chrissie have a legitimate case for being GOAT. Hell yes. Does Nav. Hell yes. Does Graf. Hell yes. Does court. Hell yes. Does serena. Hell yes. Does Wills Moody. Hells yes.

These players are 6 out of the many thousands of players that have won double digits slam titles and have each dominated tennis in either consistency or longevity. They all have cases of being the "GOAT".
But none of them have the perfect resumé.
 
I'd personally rank anyone who got close to or have double digits slam titles as being one of the best ever. In regards to who is the best well thats harder because a lot of factors have to come into play and most of the time those factors are used to suit 1 player and denigrate another. People should notice everyone has "holes" in their career that someone could easily use against that certain player to disprove that he/she is the GOAT. So to answer the OP's question. Does chrissie have a legitimate case for being GOAT. Hell yes. Does Nav. Hell yes. Does Graf. Hell yes. Does court. Hell yes. Does serena. Hell yes. Does Wills Moody. Hells yes.

These players are 6 out of the many thousands of players that have won double digits slam titles and have each dominated tennis in either consistency or longevity. They all have cases of being the "GOAT".
But none of them have the perfect resumé.

Does Connolly??? yes indeed
 
Maureen is often overlooked, but never forgotten.

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB

Being rank #11 greatest female player of all time is not overlooked.


Back on topic, Chris Evert definitely a candidate for goat. Her numbers speak volumes. Only Graf and Navratilova has a case being ahead of her.
 
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I am a big fan of Evert's but I am hesitant to rank her as the best ever.
I think it's provably Navratilova.

But I'm amazed at some of the misogny directed at Evert on this site. Whatever one thinks of her personal life ( and the word personal is important) can anyone say tgat she never behaved in an exemplary manner on the court??
 
How can you misspell her name when it is clearly written in the article that was posted above?

This is a Kiki trademark and he would not be fulfilling his duties as the expert speller of TW. If Kiki seems to spell it incorrectly you are mistaken. Dictionaries change their spelling of the word based on Kiki. Kiki is superior to Webster.

:shock:
 
While Caroline was a slamless #1, she visited Serena while she was recovering from illness. They have been friends for quite some time.


#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB

...and she still remains slamless and not anymore number one,right?
 
Chris has sure changed her tune with Serena over the years. It was just 10 short years ago Chris was writing Serena "Open Letters" in Tennis Magazine and now Chris is interviewing a legend. Chris was always that type of person. If Serena were stuck at 17, Chris would treat her much differently. This interview is a prime example of where remnants of establishment entitlement met the future.
How's the academy doing Chris?

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​
 
Chris has sure changed her tune with Serena over the years. It was just 10 short years ago Chris was writing Serena "Open Letters" in Tennis Magazine and now Chris is interviewing a legend. Chris was always that type of person. If Serena were stuck at 17, Chris would treat her much differently. This interview is a prime example of where remnants of establishment entitlement met the future.
How's the academy doing Chris?

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​
I know some people found it condescending, but I thought her letter was a sincere acknowledgement of Serena's talent. To me it felt as though Chrissy was very frustrated imagining what she could have accomplished with Serena's abilities and, as a fan of tennis, a desire to see how great Serena could be. I wish she would have listened to Chrissy, but she had her own things she was dealing with. Motivation has to come from within, and she had to find her own way. I think Chrissy has been pretty complimentary and generous toward Serena even prior to 18, where Nav always seems a bit protective of her own status.
 
I know some people found it condescending, but I thought her letter was a sincere acknowledgement of Serena's talent. To me it felt as though Chrissy was very frustrated imagining what she could have accomplished with Serena's abilities and, as a fan of tennis, a desire to see how great Serena could be. I wish she would have listened to Chrissy, but she had her own things she was dealing with. Motivation has to come from within, and she had to find her own way. I think Chrissy has been pretty complimentary and generous toward Serena even prior to 18, where Nav always seems a bit protective of her own status.

+1. I agree with you 100%.
 
Evert owns a lot to Tracy Austin in terms of legend enhancing.Much more than old Evert fans will admit and new generation fans will ever know.
 
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