PDJ
G.O.A.T.
I'm not sure why I should be forgiven (for fighting my corner if severely provoked, albeit rarely spitefully or maliciously) However, I accept your apology with good grace, and we can start 2015 afresh. Happy New Year
Does Chris Evert have a legitimate case to be the GOAT
- Thread starter illusions30
- Start date
I'm not sure why I should be forgiven (for fighting my corner if severely provoked, albeit rarely spitefully or maliciously) However, I accept your apology with good grace, and we can start 2015 afresh. Happy New Year
PDJ
G.O.A.T.
Vanhool
Hall of Fame
#Glory Halleluyur! I can't stand it when Mommy and Daddy fight around the holidays
Happy new year! Bless us one and all (tears of joy)
PDJ
G.O.A.T.
I have consistently admired and respected Vanhool- and we don't always agree (I'll never get his admiration for all things Serena
) but have remained cordial always. More importantly, he's funny! One of the good guys.
Vanhool
Hall of Fame
I have consistently admired and respected Vanhool- and we don't always agree (I'll never get his admiration for all things Serena
Awwww shucks! Thank you for the kind words, but you are only partly right about me Anyway, I enjoy you as well.cigrmaster
Semi-Pro
While Chrissie is certainly in the conversation, in my opinion the greatest talent the womans tour has ever seen is Serena Williams. She is by far the best athlete, hardest hitter, best server in the history of the womans game and she is not done. I do not believe there is woman in the history of the game that would have a winning record against her.
kiki
Banned
I'm not sure why I should be forgiven (for fighting my corner if severely provoked, albeit rarely spitefully or maliciously) However, I accept your apology with good grace, and we can start 2015 afresh. Happy New Year
If someone is to make the marriage GS, no doubt it´ll be Chris Evert
Still young enough to catch on people of her generation like Prost or a Platini...two guys who fit on her profile target ( born around her age and both great sportmen like Mills or Shark Norman).
Tracy´s first impression on her keeps feeding the legend
Kiki, you are trying to stir the pot again. Whenever you throw in a post out of nowhere like this.... Well, you do it periodically.
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kiki
Banned
PDJ
G.O.A.T.
But we knew that, it's why I didn't rise to it. It's old ground. And not worthy of Kiki, but I'm sure he knows that
No Kiki, it is you, Kiki. its all on you and your incessant desire to sexualize the story Austin told and cause trouble in this thread. This thread is not about Evert's sex life nor is it about that story, nor is it about Austin.
Nothing you can say about that story will tell us anything about Austin or Evert or their legacy or their past or their motivations, let alone their tennis careers. It will only tell us about you and your motivations.
Now move along and start a thread about former tennis players and their sexual pasts for those, like you who want to discuss those aspects of tennis celebrities or you can narrow it to Evert. I will ignore that thread and you can ignore this one. You have nothing more to contribute on this topic.
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AngieB
Banned
NOT WORTH IT.
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kiki
Banned
Angie, in his or her efforts to protect America´s Bride image ( like if Chris Evert needed any guru help on the PR field¡¡¡), it certainly and uniquely is BTurner who sexualizes the whole story
I would never judge Evert´s sexual life in th same way I wouldn´t judge her diet or her favourite movie or baseball team
I just judge the fact that an enthusiastic and tender teen asked her for an autograph and she denied it.That certainly tells us about Evert much more than any bedroom story
And that tells us what a talent she had for marketing her image.Angelina Jolie is a sophomore compared to that...
I would never judge Evert´s sexual life in th same way I wouldn´t judge her diet or her favourite movie or baseball team
I just judge the fact that an enthusiastic and tender teen asked her for an autograph and she denied it.That certainly tells us about Evert much more than any bedroom story
And that tells us what a talent she had for marketing her image.Angelina Jolie is a sophomore compared to that...
kiki
Banned
Curiously enough, what a delicious irony¡¡
Chris Evert, whom I rate the absolute greatest tactician I saw on court, made such a mistake reinvigorating that broken heart until a big motivation led Tracy when she matured as a player and faced Evert.In an historical back track, that is probably the only mistake she ever made related to tennis competition.
Had Evert known that beforehanded, the big Q is..which choice would have she taken that day? Mind Over Matter?
in case some sensitive Evertians STILL believe there is a secret agenda on my side to downgrade her, I´ll repeat again:
Chris Evert is, besides one of the greatest champions in history:
A/The best tactician seen on cout from 75 onwards ( others could reach her level but not day in day out like she did)
B/She is a simbol of the 70´s.As she recently said on a blogg:: The 70´s were the best of times¡¡¡
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PDJ
G.O.A.T.
PDJ
G.O.A.T.
I'm sure you'll find some one to fall out with Kiki regarding your take on Evert. It just won't be me. It's a pity that you undermine your interesting posts elsewhere with your obsession with Evert/Austin. I like them both. Both behaved exceptionally well on court and I judge them equally in this regard. I guess, being an Evert fan (not fanatic) I was lucky that her career was longer, and considerably more successful and therefore I was able to support her longer. I'm sad for you that Austin's reign was brief. But you can take solace that another of your favourites, Mandlikova, stuck around longer with a little more success. Every cloud......
Now back to Chris Evert, the tennis player. Yes, she does have a legitimate case to be considered the Greatest Player of All Time.
Afterall, her W-L record as a pro is an astounding 90%.
That's right, 9 out of every 10 matches she won. That includes matches as a young pro on her way up, playing older, more experienced players. And results as a 33, 34 year old, when she was on her way down, not as motivated, sometimes injured, and more vulnerable.
90% winning record.
90% !
Afterall, her W-L record as a pro is an astounding 90%.
That's right, 9 out of every 10 matches she won. That includes matches as a young pro on her way up, playing older, more experienced players. And results as a 33, 34 year old, when she was on her way down, not as motivated, sometimes injured, and more vulnerable.
90% winning record.
90% !
I do not play at all like Chris Evert.
I don’t have a two handed backhand. I almost always double-fault at least twice a set. And I never lob. Ever.
For that matter, I don’t have that much mental strength. I don’t have it in me to be supremely focused. And I could never be the clutch so many times was while playing.
Numbers aside, and people can always quote ( and mis-quote ) her great numbers, when she needed to she hit the shot for nearly twenty years ( 1969 to 1989 ).
And particularly with a wood racket, I think she did it better than anyone in history.
As a player I can do nothing but respect this.
Does she have a legitimate case for greatest player ever?
Yes.
I don’t have a two handed backhand. I almost always double-fault at least twice a set. And I never lob. Ever.
For that matter, I don’t have that much mental strength. I don’t have it in me to be supremely focused. And I could never be the clutch so many times was while playing.
Numbers aside, and people can always quote ( and mis-quote ) her great numbers, when she needed to she hit the shot for nearly twenty years ( 1969 to 1989 ).
And particularly with a wood racket, I think she did it better than anyone in history.
As a player I can do nothing but respect this.
Does she have a legitimate case for greatest player ever?
Yes.
tennisdad65
Hall of Fame
Right now, there 5 EQUAL GOATs for me..
Court, Chris, Martina, Graf and Sereena. Too many IFs etc.. needed to pick out the best of them.
Court, Chris, Martina, Graf and Sereena. Too many IFs etc.. needed to pick out the best of them.
Cool list.
I would remove Court because it's not about number of titles.
If Court had a Martina or Chris playing at the same time she was, she wouldn't be anywhere near her count. Same thing with Serena and the a much lesser extent Graf. The fact that Navratilova and Evert have as many as they do with the other around, is a testimony to how good they really were.
For me, it's about IF we put these players on the same court during their primes how would they do. I have a lot of respect for Court, but I don't think she's as capable as the other women in your grouping.
I would however put Henin in the mix. She didn't burn as long, but man when she did, she burned pretty damn bright. I'd stack her game up against anyone's in history.
Interestingly, I'm not 100% about Serena. I like her. She's a competitor and she has a great serve, but if you put a wood racket in Graf, Evert, Navratilova or Henin's hand, they would all do well. If you put them on a court in 1920 or 2019, in their primes they'd do well. Serena should too, but something in me says she wouldn't do it as well without her courts and her rackets.
Still, Serena deserves to be on a level above King, Court and Hingis, let alone Austin, Capriatti or Davenport.
As great as she is, I have Serena on a second tier with only one other player: Monica Seles.
Not bad company.
I would remove Court because it's not about number of titles.
If Court had a Martina or Chris playing at the same time she was, she wouldn't be anywhere near her count. Same thing with Serena and the a much lesser extent Graf. The fact that Navratilova and Evert have as many as they do with the other around, is a testimony to how good they really were.
For me, it's about IF we put these players on the same court during their primes how would they do. I have a lot of respect for Court, but I don't think she's as capable as the other women in your grouping.
I would however put Henin in the mix. She didn't burn as long, but man when she did, she burned pretty damn bright. I'd stack her game up against anyone's in history.
Interestingly, I'm not 100% about Serena. I like her. She's a competitor and she has a great serve, but if you put a wood racket in Graf, Evert, Navratilova or Henin's hand, they would all do well. If you put them on a court in 1920 or 2019, in their primes they'd do well. Serena should too, but something in me says she wouldn't do it as well without her courts and her rackets.
Still, Serena deserves to be on a level above King, Court and Hingis, let alone Austin, Capriatti or Davenport.
As great as she is, I have Serena on a second tier with only one other player: Monica Seles.
Not bad company.
Huh?!/?&$!@??!!??
Someone knows nothing of what they say.
As EVERYONE knows, Chris Evert's main rival, her "main generational opponent" was Martina Navratilova. And yes Chris had a losing H2H to Martina 43-37.
Terribly unfortunate for Evert that Austin was too pathetically weak, and always losing in early rounds, denying Chris multiple opportunities to serve up more double bagels against Tracy!
kiki
Banned
I can´t imagine how close those matches might have been¡¡¡ Had Fed lost that badly in every single match to Nadal like this, he´d be mocked up by even his fiercest teen fans...yes, Tracy was a mere " grain salt".
In all those defeats, Evert was between 25 and 27, the, by far, peak of peaks of any sportsman or sportswoman
1981 East Rutherford SF Carpet Tracy Austin Chris Evert 6-1 6-2
1981 Canadian Masters F Hard Tracy Austin Chris Evert 6-1 6-4
1980 Landover SF Carpet Tracy Austin Chris Evert 6-3 6-0
1979 Filderstadt SF Carpet Tracy Austin Chris Evert 6-3 7-5
1979 US Open F Hard Tracy Austin Chris Evert 6-4 6-3
I left aside some more matches to not make that " salt grain" too unpalatable for your sensibility.As you know, the scores were like those, bar Rome ( Evert´s favourite turf as opposed to Austin´s worst turf)
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70sHollywood
Guest
I think Evert is one of a dozen or so players who have a case to be GOAT, but I personally don't ever consider her.
Never mind all-time, the problem is that there are 2 players (Graf, Nav) within the 20-30 year period in which she played who are definitely better, so taking into account history - and giving each era it's due - I don't think it's even remotely unreasonable to place her below Lenglen, Wills-Moody, Connolly, Court, Navratilova, Graf and Williams.
Where I am happy to accept raised eyebrows is in my belief that Seles also probably ranks above her. But I value peak play strongly, so again, in that regard I don't think it's unreasonable.
Never mind all-time, the problem is that there are 2 players (Graf, Nav) within the 20-30 year period in which she played who are definitely better, so taking into account history - and giving each era it's due - I don't think it's even remotely unreasonable to place her below Lenglen, Wills-Moody, Connolly, Court, Navratilova, Graf and Williams.
Where I am happy to accept raised eyebrows is in my belief that Seles also probably ranks above her. But I value peak play strongly, so again, in that regard I don't think it's unreasonable.
PDJ
G.O.A.T.
Very fair. With an exception, I think similarly
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