Does countervail actually do anything to reduce racquet vibration?

[Pleb123]

Whatever countervail does, it does not seem to do much to reduce racquet vibration frequency. Comparing the vibration frequencies for the Blade group in 2015 and 2016 using the TWU numbers, the only reduction was for the 98CV 16x19 and that was only two points. That could just as likely be the result of the stiffness being lowered from 69 to 65. Otherwise the vibration frequencies of the 98 18x20 and 98S have increased with the introduction of CV, not decreased. Notably, the stiffness has also increased for those CV racquets. It seems then that stiffness has more to do with determining racquet vibration frequency than the gimmicky CV stuff:

(vibration frequency/ stiffness/ weight)

Wilson Blade 98 (16x19) (2015) 146 69 329
Wilson Blade 98 (16x19) CV 144 65 318
Wilson Blade 98 (18x20 ) (2015) 140 64 322
Wilson Blade 98 (18x20) CV 142 65 324
Wilson Blade 98S 137 63 334
Wilson Blade 98S (18x16) CV 146 66 310

 

[esgee48]

Doubt it really matters. Wilson went from Kevlar, to Nano, to Basalt, to Amplifeel to CV. Their lack of QC hurts them since frames don't seem to feel the same from batch to batch. The only time it seemed to work was when they had Kevlar, which had different resonant frequencies then Graphite. 2 cents.

 

[ShahofTennis]

Wilson's Countervail is a rehash of the Graphene gimmick. Wilson, in an effort to reduce costs removed material from the throat, and then branded it as a "new technology".

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[rockbox]

Whatever countervail does, it does not seem to do much to reduce racquet vibration frequency. Comparing the vibration frequencies for the Blade group in 2015 and 2016 using the TWU numbers, the only reduction was for the 98CV 16x19 and that was only two points. That could just as likely be the result of the stiffness being lowered from 69 to 65. Otherwise the vibration frequencies of the 98 18x20 and 98S have increased with the introduction of CV, not decreased. Notably, the stiffness has also increased for those CV racquets. It seems then that stiffness has more to do with determining racquet vibration frequency than the gimmicky CV stuff:

(vibration frequency/ stiffness/ weight)

Wilson Blade 98 (16x19) (2015) 146 69 329
Wilson Blade 98 (16x19) CV 144 65 318
Wilson Blade 98 (18x20 ) (2015) 140 64 322
Wilson Blade 98 (18x20) CV 142 65 324
Wilson Blade 98S 137 63 334
Wilson Blade 98S (18x16) CV 146 66 310

Frequency is not a measurement of harshness or dampening . Vibration amplitude and dissipation of amplitude is. I don't even know why TW publishes frequency. Frequency only tells you how tinny a racquet feels. Countervail is supposed to reduce the amplitude of vibration vs regular dampening techniques. I've never played with the CV version of the the blade but from what I've consistently read, it is VERY muted. Some complain that it is too muted.

 

[Crocodile]

The best way to reduce vibration that I have come across is the Pro Kennex Kinetic system, it's the number one technology. I would then nominate the Volkl and Pacific handle systems and grommet systems followed by the foam and/or silicone systems that racquets like Donnay have. Then you have things like mass, balance and flexibility you can work with which is very important. I'm a bit concerned about countervailing going on with the blade racquets in particular as there is a lot of swingweight going on and it seems to be done via adding weight in the hoop. I'd much prefer to have a heavy racquet with swingweight addition with added mass in the throat, it's a better way to go and I feel the racquet would feel more natural in my arm.

 

[purdyd]

I'd say yes CV does dampen vibration. As pointed out, vibration frequency is a separate function.

What CV advertises is that you can pretty much make something the same way you did before but the vibration amplitude will be less and will decay faster.

Judging by the small change in frequency from the previous version, this may in fact be the case.

As far as I know, the whole racquet is not made of a carbon countervail layup. It is only portions of it. I believe it is pretty much the same carbon basalt layup as before with some portions using a CV layup.

I'm not sure why CV means that material was removed from the throat. I suspect it is pretty much the same as the previous version, see above frequency measurements.

There are absolutely other ways of reducing vibration, all of which entail adding some type of material which has a weight, cost, and complexity cost.

Is CV a gimmick? Well, probably no more or no less than a lot of things.

I don't see why adding weight in the throat or hoop make any difference as long as the swing weight is the same. You would have to add relatively more mass in the throat to make a higher swing weight vice in the hoop.

More mass in the hoop would increase twist weight. More weight in the throat would likely make it stiffer

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

I'm pretty sure vibration is harmless and can be dealt with a $0.50 rubber band. But since it's what the player "feels" and most don't care about the science behind it, it's easy for the marketing department to take advantage, and brand it for profit.

It's shock that people need to worry about. But you know, who cares about science right? It's all about what's on TV.

 

[ThirdEye]

I'm pretty sure vibration is harmless and can be dealt with a $0.50 rubber band. But since it's what the player "feels" and most don't care about the science behind it, it's easy for the marketing department to take advantage, and brand it for profit.

It's shock that people need to worry about. But you know, who cares about science right? It's all about what's on TV.

I don't get it. Are you saying that strings vibration and frame vibration are the same thing?

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

I don't get it. Are you saying that strings vibration and frame vibration are the same thing?

I'm saying that vibration as a whole is harmless.

 

[purdyd]

And what scientific evidence do you have that says vibration doesn't matter?

Also do you see the graphs above where the first oscilation magnitude is less than the non countervail carbon?

And have you read what Wilson claims countervail does for the tennis player?

 

[Zoolander]

Frequency is not a measurement of harshness or dampening . Vibration amplitude and dissipation of amplitude is. I don't even know why TW publishes frequency. Frequency only tells you how tinny a racquet feels. Countervail is supposed to reduce the amplitude of vibration vs regular dampening techniques. I've never played with the CV version of the the blade but from what I've consistently read, it is VERY muted. Some complain that it is too muted.

Not that im doubting your integrity, but did these comparisons come from countervailproducts.com? Because i would take anything they advertised with a grain of salt!

CV is just another carbon fibre layer, right? Just another way for manufacturers to use less, cheaper (and stiffer) materials to cut costs and then claim they are reducing vibration by adding an (unspecified, and probably graphene-like) amount of CV fibre......

How about adding MORE stuff, Wilson? How about some extra braided graphite, maybe with some kevlar or boron and ceramic thrown in?

 

[Zoolander]

I'm saying that vibration as a whole is harmless.

Yeah, i find that when my steering or brakes vibrate badly, nothing bad ever usually happens next!

 

[TennisHound]

Gimmick or not, Countervail is awesome. After getting used to it, the Blades feel amazing. Of course their too HH in stock form to use, but the CV feel is great.

 

[PeterFig]

CV is just another carbon fibre layer, right? Just another way for manufacturers to use less, cheaper (and stiffer) materials to cut costs and then claim they are reducing vibration by adding an (unspecified, and probably graphene-like) amount of CV fibre......

That entire statement is factually incorrect.

 

[moon shot]

Frequency is not a measurement of harshness or dampening . Vibration amplitude and dissipation of amplitude is. I don't even know why TW publishes frequency. Frequency only tells you how tinny a racquet feels. Countervail is supposed to reduce the amplitude of vibration vs regular dampening techniques. I've never played with the CV version of the the blade but from what I've consistently read, it is VERY muted. Some complain that it is too muted.

My personal experience is that the frequency of frame vibration has a relation to how a racquet feels on contact. The wilson crisp feel, the prince port feel, and others generally live at different frequencies, that's why I like TWU measurements.

From anecdotal evidence it seems players who started with stiffer higher frequency frames are initially put off by the long decay of a ported prince or classic head. In theory having a shorter sustain would be more familiar to them.

 

[rockbox]

I'm saying that vibration as a whole is harmless.

But way annoying

My personal experience is that the frequency of frame vibration has a relation to how a racquet feels on contact. The wilson crisp feel, the prince port feel, and others generally live at different frequencies, that's why I like TWU measurements.

From anecdotal evidence it seems players who started with stiffer higher frequency frames are initially put off by the long decay of a ported prince or classic head. In theory having a shorter sustain would be more familiar to them.

I agree, I just didn't state it as eloquently as you did. I made the comment about tinny feeling.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

But way annoying


I agree, I just didn't state it as eloquently as you did. I made the comment about tinny feeling.

Then spend $0.50 on a rubber band, not $200+ on a new racquet.

 

[rockbox]

Then spend $0.50 on a rubber band, not $200+ on a new racquet.

From my experience, even with a rubber band, the babolats that I own still feel tinny. I'm not saying that is good or bad, they just feel different from my wilsons or heads.

 

[moon shot]

I agree, I just didn't state it as eloquently as you did. I made the comment about tinny feeling.

Oh yeah, I think we're on the same page. I didn't think much about frequency until I saw the TWU measurements and realized every frame that felt right to me is 139-148hz. I read somewhere the Profile was designed to have a frequency of 220hz!

Then spend $0.50 on a rubber band, not $200+ on a new racquet.

$0.50 rubber band? Let me be your rubber band supplier! I've got a box of 200 I'll sell you for the low price of $0.39 each

I think you may have a vibration range to your frame selection as well, what is your history?
2014 PS90 - 146hz
PS85 - 141hz
BLX Tour 90 - 141hz

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Oh yeah, I think we're on the same page. I didn't think much about frequency until I saw the TWU measurements and realized every frame that felt right to me is 139-148hz. I read somewhere the Profile was designed to have a frequency of 220hz!



$0.50 rubber band? Let me be your rubber band supplier! I've got a box of 200 I'll sell you for the low price of $0.39 each

I think you may have a vibration range to your frame selection as well, what is your history?
2014 PS90 - 146hz
PS85 - 141hz
BLX Tour 90 - 141hz

Aren't rubber bands dirt cheap? (If not free from random packaging from the stuff you buy?)

The whole history? Here it is, haha

Head Ti. Heat (original version)
Prince Precision Response Ti.
Dunlop HM 200G
Head i.Prestige Mid
Head PC600
Wilson BLX90
Wilson Pro Staff 6.0 85
Wilson Pro Staff 90 (2014)
Wilson Pro Staff RF97
Maybe back to Wilson Pro Staff 90, mids just feel right in my hands.

Yes, I'm derailing, but I had a request!

 

[moon shot]

Aren't rubber bands dirt cheap? (If not free from random packaging from the stuff you buy?)

The whole history? Here it is, haha

Head Ti. Heat (original version)
Prince Precision Response Ti.
Dunlop HM 200G
Head i.Prestige Mid
Head PC600
Wilson BLX90
Wilson Pro Staff 6.0 85
Wilson Pro Staff 90 (2014)
Wilson Pro Staff RF97
Maybe back to Wilson Pro Staff 90, mids just feel right in my hands.

Yes, I'm derailing, but I had a request!

Yeah, I was joking about them being $0.50 each, they are more like two cents each.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Yeah, I was joking about them being $0.50 each, they are more like two cents each.

So why are people spending $200+ on a racquet... ?

 

[moon shot]

So why are people spending $200+ on a racquet... ?

Many varied reasons, mostly because they haven't found one that they click with well enough to convince them not to buy a different one. Once you are in the market for anything a common inclination is to look for a version that is better than its predecessor. If you can't quantify how one thing could be better for you than another then price or color or size is a differentiator.

I think it was Panasonic who sold two different microwaves at a time. The cheaper of the two was their best seller, they later introduced a more expensive version and found that when presented with three options that meet the consumers needs they tend to pick the middle of the pack. With a $250-220 PS and Blade at the top and recreational and markdown racquets priced below they make the Burn and Ultra in the middle look like a better deal.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Many varied reasons, mostly because they haven't found one that they click with well enough to convince them not to buy a different one. Once you are in the market for anything a common inclination is to look for a version that is better than its predecessor. If you can't quantify how one thing could be better for you than another then price or color or size is a differentiator.

I think it was Panasonic who sold two different microwaves at a time. The cheaper of the two was their best seller, they later introduced a more expensive version and found that when presented with three options that meet the consumers needs they tend to pick the middle of the pack. With a $250-220 PS and Blade at the top and recreational and markdown racquets priced below they make the Burn and Ultra in the middle look like a better deal.

To each his/her own. Here's my take:

People who are seeking "arm friendly" racquets most certainly have at least one of the three following criteria:
1) They have pre-existing chronic arm injury
2) Their form and fitness is absolute s***
3) (1) and (2) apply on the daily but yet they don't do anything about either one

You can keep looking, but every racquet will be about as "arm friendly" as you allow it to be.

 

[Disgruntled Worker]

Flexible frame + lead tape = problem solved

You shouldn't be spending more than a 100 bucks on a frame. Check out TW's discount section or just go to the local sports store and search for deals. If you're gonna be spending money on anything it SHOULD be strings.

 

[Top Jimmy]

Pretty sure Say Chi Sin Lo is the guy that says using a vibration dampener does not actually change the feel, it just changes the sound and people that say it feels different are suckers for marketing. (if my memory serves me correctly)

Now it looks like he is saying that weight, balance, stiffness, etc have no bearing on the impact to your arm.

 

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

Pretty sure Say Chi Sin Lo is the guy that says using a vibration dampener does not actually change the feel, it just changes the sound and people that say it feels different are suckers for marketing. (if my memory serves me correctly)

Now it looks like he is saying that weight, balance, stiffness, etc have no bearing on the impact to your arm.

Pretty sure you're misreading me but ok. What I'm saying is that if you have a pre-existing condition, the racquet is not what you need to address.

But go ahead, I'm not going to stop you from misinterpreting people.

 

[rockbox]

Oh yeah, I think we're on the same page. I didn't think much about frequency until I saw the TWU measurements and realized every frame that felt right to me is 139-148hz. I read somewhere the Profile was designed to have a frequency of 220hz!



$0.50 rubber band? Let me be your rubber band supplier! I've got a box of 200 I'll sell you for the low price of $0.39 each

I think you may have a vibration range to your frame selection as well, what is your history?
2014 PS90 - 146hz
PS85 - 141hz
BLX Tour 90 - 141hz

Now that you mention it, I realize that I do prefer racquets in a range. I like racquets in 140-150 range.

 

[RobS]

The science behind Countervail is legitimate. The design intent is to create a light weight, high strength composite with significant vibration dampening, energy dissipating characteristics. The bigger picture for Countervail and similar composite technologies is integral vibration dampening and shock mitigation in aircraft, boats, automotive, etc. One of the intended byproducts is reduced muscle fatigue, chronic and acute injury from shock and vibration. As far as tennis racquets are concerned, the same net results can be and are achieved but at a cost of adding weight and/or sacrificing strength. I'd like to see a video of a new Blade being made as I have no idea of the layup and how much or where the Countervail is being used. I've dealt with mechanical and materials engineering on a day to day for over 20 years (I'm also playing the new Blade) and I think CV in racquets is one of the few legitimate marketing claims out there.

 

[purdyd]

I'm willing to accept that string dampeners change the sound and that maybe the biggest change for string dampeners. But CV is supposed to cut frame vibration.

And if you have tendinitis, or some other repetitive stress injury, it is probably best to not do what gave you that injury and let it heal up.

In my case, I am actually thinking at my advanced age as I am playing more tennis, that I want to avoid injury.

In the case of countervail and Wilson, they aren't necessarily touting the arm friendly nature, at least in regards to injury, they are claiming reducing the racquet vibration will reduce fatigue and improve your tennis performance.

http://www.wilson.com/en-us/explore/tennis/countervail

"Rackets with Countervail technology help reduce fatigue, resulting in 40% greater accuracy and control."

 

[purdyd]

Not that im doubting your integrity, but did these comparisons come from countervailproducts.com? Because i would take anything they advertised with a grain of salt!

CV is just another carbon fibre layer, right? Just another way for manufacturers to use less, cheaper (and stiffer) materials to cut costs and then claim they are reducing vibration by adding an (unspecified, and probably graphene-like) amount of CV fibre......

How about adding MORE stuff, Wilson? How about some extra braided graphite, maybe with some kevlar or boron and ceramic thrown in?

I suppose it would be nice if there was an independent assessment of some of the vibration claims on Wilson racquets. Based on the fact that I have the racquets and many say they are too muted, I am willing to posit they have less vibration than previous generation and even current generation non CV Wilson racquets.

Things that are lighter and stiffer, are more expensive. If you want a cheap racquet make it out of low modulus fiber and tons of resin. It will have lots of material and weight. How about chopped fiberglass? That will give you lot of weight and low flex.

CV is probably a fairly expensive carbon layer, compared to the other stuff in the racquet. Agree, it is unclear how much is added or where. It could very well be a fairly small amount.

When companies add in these exotic layers it normally makes it more expensive to produce not to mention the engineering and perhaps tooling costs, procedures, testing, etc. associated with any product change.

If a company really wanted to save money they would just leave the design alone and change the color every year.

And frankly, what is wrong with a company making money? If a company comes up with a more efficient method to produce something and they make more money as result, that is good. Don't you think?

I personally like to buy things from companies that are making a profit.

If the item performs badly or falls apart or gets too expensive than the competitors will reap the benefits.

 

[Disgruntled Worker]

I suppose it would be nice if there was an independent assessment of some of the vibration claims on Wilson racquets. Based on the fact that I have the racquets and many say they are too muted, I am willing to posit they have less vibration than previous generation and even current generation non CV Wilson racquets.

Things that are lighter and stiffer, are more expensive. If you want a cheap racquet make it out of low modulus fiber and tons of resin. It will have lots of material and weight. How about chopped fiberglass? That will give you lot of weight and low flex.

CV is probably a fairly expensive carbon layer, compared to the other stuff in the racquet. Agree, it is unclear how much is added or where. It could very well be a fairly small amount.

When companies add in these exotic layers it normally makes it more expensive to produce not to mention the engineering and perhaps tooling costs, procedures, testing, etc. associated with any product change.

If a company really wanted to save money they would just leave the design alone and change the color every year.

And frankly, what is wrong with a company making money? If a company comes up with a more efficient method to produce something and they make more money as result, that is good. Don't you think?

I personally like to buy things from companies that are making a profit.

If the item performs badly or falls apart or gets too expensive than the competitors will reap the benefits.

Jeez, you're a marketing exec's dream demo.

Modern racquets are pieces of graphite made in China. Why do you think they go from 200 to 60 bucks in a matter of two years. The raw materials used to construct these frames probably cost as much as a set of Luxilon ALU. A company looking to make profit doesn't necessarily have the consumer's arm, elbow, shoulder or wrist as a top priority. Compare classic graphite frames from the 80s such as the Pro Staff or PC600 to a Babolat, which is hollow and filled with some gimmick, phony technology.

Tennis Warehouse is saying "cha-ching" and so is Wilson. People would rather blame racquets than their own crap technique. The result? An explosion in the sale of gear and things that are completely irrelevant and overvalued as far as one's proficiency at tennis is concerned.

 

[purdyd]

Are you mad at Wilson or Babolat or people who buy tennis racquets?

I'm not sure what your point is.

Heavily discounted two year old stuff is normal in the world of consumer products.

 

[Dolgopolov85]

From my experience, even with a rubber band, the babolats that I own still feel tinny. I'm not saying that is good or bad, they just feel different from my wilsons or heads.

Right but maybe that has nothing to do with vibration. The really stiff racquets, the so called arm killers, send shocks right up to your shoulder which have nothing to do with vibration. I mean, in terms of physics, they may or may not be connected, but the feel of these shocks is entirely different (and far more painful). Irrespective of whether you use a dampener or not, the firm and harsh feel on impact will remain and a hit a millimeter off the sweetspot may send those terrible shocks up your arm. And not all Babs, not even all Pure Drives. Mine did, but the one I had demoed had no such issues. Ergo, Bab too has QC issues and it's not just Wilson. So if you have a way to check the actual stiffness rating of the racquet before buying (and not just the claimed rating), pl do so especially before you buy a Pure Drive.

 

[Imago]

Heavily discounted two year old stuff is normal in the world of consumer products.

Not even close. I am enjoying 40% on all new offerings. And I am not a coach or a dealer. Just imagine what do they get.

 

[Zoolander]

That entire statement is factually incorrect.

Feel free to factually correct me please, Mr Fig! I do give it to Wilson, they have kept braided graphite kevlar in the Prostaff line when other manufacturers have gotten rid of it pretty much altogether. But if kevlar is a proven material that works and is good enough for the PS line, why do the rest of the lines get ncode/(K)arbon black/BLX/Countervail/who knows what comes next? Cost?

 

[yonex]

I also agree that countervail is more marketing than anything useful. I have hit with both the 2015 and the CV blade, and I feel like the same effect could be produced by using a dampener. In fact, I think the dampening is too strong because it takes away the majority of the feel.

 

[Bartelby]

A dampener is for string vibration, whereas Countervail is to do with the frame itself.

 

[yonex]

But the end feeling is the same! That's the point I'm trying to make! The blade is meant for higher level players, which means that they should have good technique. If your arm is fatiguing and you cannot play on, your technique is bad. However, countervail simply just changes the feel for higher level players, not reduce fatigue, which was already at a negligible amount.

 

[purdyd]

Well in my opinion. The feeling is not the same as having a string dampener but I can see why you would equate the two as the sound is similar.

CV might not be everyone’s. Cup of tea, but it does cut vibrations, Personally I think it has plenty of feel, I can still tell where it hit on the racquet.

There may come a day when you arent so indestructible and all those hits add up. Having less vibration on your body could prolong that time and also help later on.

I say this with the perspective of age and having participated in several sports for multiple decades.

And of course Wilson trotted out a claim that CV and less vibrations reduced fatigue. Even sited some study. I can’t speak to that personally but that could be a real advantage in a long match.

I guess we will see if this is a trend or just a passing phase,

 

[mxmx]

Well in my opinion. The feeling is not the same as having a string dampener but I can see why you would equate the two as the sound is similar.

CV might not be everyone’s. Cup of tea, but it does cut vibrations, Personally I think it has plenty of feel, I can still tell where it hit on the racquet.

There may come a day when you arent so indestructible and all those hits add up. Having less vibration on your body could prolong that time and also help later on.

I say this with the perspective of age and having participated in several sports for multiple decades.

And of course Wilson trotted out a claim that CV and less vibrations reduced fatigue. Even sited some study. I can’t speak to that personally but that could be a real advantage in a long match.

I guess we will see if this is a trend or just a passing phase,

I fully agree...

I had two older blades (black & silver model) of which one broke unfortunately. I have one left. I needed to replace the broken racket. Nothing other than the CV was available to me. I got a CV at a discount which was great.

Wat surprised me though is how different the CV feels to previous models. I have also played with the old kblade years back and some others and it was a great racket and I have always been a wilson fan (as well as Prince).

I strung my black & silver blade with the same specs as the new CV...both at the same time with the same strings and tension. I did this to be able to test the differences between the two frames. I expected them to play extremely similar as due to my experience wilson does not change much between models. Boy was I wrong. The CV is most certainly much more subdued, even with both models using wilson dampeners. The CV feels less powered but swings easier and feels lighter and MUCH more comfortable. I tested the black and silver model and it confirmed the experience...it immediately felt harder, heavier and less comfortable, even though before the CV it was and is still great.

To me power in a racket is secondary to the importance of feel and how it swings. The CV to me is most definitely a upgrade to my game in particular. Sad that my older model broke...but would be great if I had two CV's so that I have more consistent feel between the two...

 

[mxmx]

Double post

 

[esm]

I fully agree...

I had two older blades (black & silver model) of which one broke unfortunately. I have one left. I needed to replace the broken racket. Nothing other than the CV was available to me. I got a CV at a discount which was great.

Wat surprised me though is how different the CV feels to previous models. I have also played with the old kblade years back and some others and it was a great racket and I have always been a wilson fan (as well as Prince).

I strung my black & silver blade with the same specs as the new CV...both at the same time with the same strings and tension. I did this to be able to test the differences between the two frames. I expected them to play extremely similar as due to my experience wilson does not change much between models. Boy was I wrong. The CV is most certainly much more subdued, even with both models using wilson dampeners. The CV feels less powered but swings easier and feels lighter and MUCH more comfortable. I tested the black and silver model and it confirmed the experience...it immediately felt harder, heavier and less comfortable, even though before the CV it was and is still great.

To me power in a racket is secondary to the importance of feel and how it swings. The CV to me is most definitely a upgrade to my game in particular. Sad that my older model broke...but would be great if I had two CV's so that I have more consistent feel between the two...

thanks for that. can i ask if they are 16x19 or 18x20?
also, knowing the Wilson QC - were the two the same, spec-wise?

 

[mxmx]

thanks for that. can i ask if they are 16x19 or 18x20?
also, knowing the Wilson QC - were the two the same, spec-wise?

Both models I have are 18 x 20. As for the specs I do not have it in front of me. All I know is that the balance markings on the CV differs from what the TW reviewers stated with their review on the CV.

In my mind I like it when a racket is thin, 18 x 20, over 300g and head light (both are). I am just not sure how many grams they differ in weight or balance. Do I believe TW or wilson?

 

[socalmd123]

I think I'm the only one who liked countervail

 

[esm]

Both models I have are 18 x 20. As for the specs I do not have it in front of me. All I know is that the balance markings on the CV differs from what the TW reviewers stated with their review on the CV.

In my mind I like it when a racket is thin, 18 x 20, over 300g and head light (both are). I am just not sure how many grams they differ in weight or balance. Do I believe TW or wilson?

lol - thanks.
i think it is difficult to believe the spec for a/(any) Wilson racquets..... i recently got 4 new ones and the specs are all over the place...... cant believe a company can produce products with that much of a variances (although i think they are still with in the tolerance, just... but what a pain..). lol

 

[mxmx]

lol - thanks.
i think it is difficult to believe the spec for a/(any) Wilson racquets..... i recently got 4 new ones and the specs are all over the place...... cant believe a company can produce products with that much of a variances (although i think they are still with in the tolerance, just... but what a pain..). lol

Well, to me Wilson is still the best what you pay for. Perhaps inconsistent with quality control, but consistent in a broader context.

I used to hate Wilson as a brand years ago and loved Prince...but I could not deny how good their rackets were even though I still feel loyal to Prince even to this day.

 

[esm]

Well, to me Wilson is still the best what you pay for. Perhaps inconsistent with quality control, but consistent in a broader context.

I used to hate Wilson as a brand years ago and loved Prince...but I could not deny how good their rackets were even though I still feel loyal to Prince even to this day.

same here (but not so much of the love for Prince recently...). got onto the Blade 98 bandwagon in the past few weeks and loved it. suppose it was fun to match specs here and there and now experimenting with the string setup, but over all pretty good experiences so far

 

[blablavla]

lol - thanks.
i think it is difficult to believe the spec for a/(any) Wilson racquets..... i recently got 4 new ones and the specs are all over the place...... cant believe a company can produce products with that much of a variances (although i think they are still with in the tolerance, just... but what a pain..). lol

question here would be what is the chicken and what is the egg.

is the tolerance the result of production variance?
or perhaps the production variance is result of tolerance?

 

[esm]

question here would be what is the chicken and what is the egg.

is the tolerance the result of production variance?
or perhaps the production variance is result of tolerance?

no idea, best to ask Mr. Wilson.... lol