Does djokovic have issues...

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
With confidence , on clay , versus Nadal ?

In the same way its obvious Nadal does when he faces Djokovic on a hard court.

Hes barely beaten Nadal on clay in recent years , outwith Nadals 2015-16 slump.

Will there be mental baggage for Novak in the matchup now? Or is there just simply a skill difference on clay?
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic played Nadal in a close 3 set match today after playing 5 hours yesterday, but the better player won. When's the last time Nadal did that against Djokovic on hardcourt?
Djokovic hasn't defeated Nadal on clay since his last victory in Rome 2016. That is, Djokovic hasn't beaten Nadal on clay in 5 years. Nadal hasn't beaten Djokovic on hard since his last victory at the US Open 2013, 8 years ago.

Two sides of the same coin.

Answering your question: Nadal played a close 2th set against Djokovic in the ATP cup 2020. The match was disputed, but obviously less so than the Rome 2021 final.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic hasn't defeated Nadal on clay since his last victory in Rome 2016. That is, Djokovic hasn't beaten Nadal ok clay in 5 years.

Two sides of the same coin.
And Nadal hasn't beaten Djokovic on hardcourt in 8 years. It's not just that Nadal hasn't defeated him in that timeframe, he hasn't even won a set so no it's not the same.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Horrible excuse. He showed 0 signs of tiredness in the match.
That's utter nonsense and you know it. He was barely moving his feet after the break in the third and was clearly gassed. That's no excuse for him, I believe Rafa would have won even had Novak been fully rested, but the third set might have been closer and not an anti-climactic end. It always amazes me that fanatical fans are totally unable ever to give props to a rival player. And the hypocrisy is clearly off the charts. Had Rafa played 5 hours on Saturday and lost today, VB would be enraged and in tatters. Novak was screwed again with the scheduling and few in the Nadal fanbase (aside from probably Michael and Rafa the Magnificent) would admit it.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
And Nadal hasn't beaten Djokovic on hardcourt in 8 years. It's not just that Nadal hasn't defeated him in that timeframe, he hasn't even won a set so no it's not the same.
That's true. It's not the same, but very similar.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
That's utter nonsense and you know it. He was barely moving his feet after the break in the third and was clearly gassed. That's no excuse for him, I believe Rafa would have won even had Novak been fully rested, but the third set might have been closer and not an anti-climactic end. It always amazes me that fanatical fans are totally unable ever to give props to a rival player. And the hypocrisy is clearly off the charts. Had Rafa played 5 hours on Saturday and lost today, VB would be enraged and in tatters. Novak was screwed again with the scheduling and few in the Nadal fanbase (aside from probably Michael and Rafa the Magnificent) would admit it.
That's utter right and I know it. The third set was not "anti-climatic" in any sense. Djokovic had two break points but Rafa saved them (with a bit of luck maybe, as one of his shots touched the net).

Nadal lost the second set 6-1. Djokovic lost the third set 6-2. Following your logic (losing one set by 6-2 or less means the losing player is tired), it follows that Nadal was tired in the second set. Unless you display a double standard.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
With confidence , on clay , versus Nadal ?

In the same way its obvious Nadal does when he faces Djokovic on a hard court.

Hes barely beaten Nadal on clay in recent years , outwith Nadals 2015-16 slump.

Will there be mental baggage for Novak in the matchup now? Or is there just simply a skill difference on clay?
It is a surface thing now. Nadal owns clay, Djokovic owns HC. Has been like that for a while, not just something that started today.
 

UnforcedTerror

Hall of Fame
Today it was physical issues. He collapsed physically and mentally in the third set but that was expected considering it's an almost 3 hours match and he played for 5 hours, less than 24 hours ago.
 
That's utter right and I know it. The third set was not "anti-climatic" in any sense. Djokovic had two break points but Rafa saved them (with a bit of luck maybe, as one of his shots touched the net).

Nadal lost the second set 6-1. Djokovic lost the third set 6-2. Following your logic (losing one set by 6-2 or less means the losing player is tired), it follows that Nadal was tired in the second set. Unless you display a double standard.
6-3
 
N

Nuclear Warhead Sinner

Guest
His backhand doesn't have the same effect on Nadal anymore. Not on clay at least.
He doesn't hit is as hard and angled. Lack of confidence? Lack of strength? I honestly don't know, it was the most satisfying thing to watch back in the day.
 

InsideOut900

Hall of Fame
With confidence , on clay , versus Nadal ?

In the same way its obvious Nadal does when he faces Djokovic on a hard court.

Hes barely beaten Nadal on clay in recent years , outwith Nadals 2015-16 slump.

Will there be mental baggage for Novak in the matchup now? Or is there just simply a skill difference on clay?
It's as if the physical decline doesn't widen the gap on their favourite surfaces to a point where like Djoko can go undefeated on HC for 8 years, Nadal for 5 years on clay and a nearly 38 years old Fed comes close to beating both his rivals b2b to win Wimbledon.

But of course that doesn't happen in real life. ;)
 

socallefty

Hall of Fame
His BH is not dominating the other top players anymore on slow surfaces like clay and slow hard courts. So, he is having to outlast them or take a lot more risk than he used to. I think this takes away from the confidence and self-belief he had to beat Nadal on clay.

When he had a chance to break Nadal with the 1st break point at 3-3 in the third set, he made an easy FH error off a short ball which does make me think that he did not feel he is the better player who ‘deserves‘ to win against Nadal on clay.
 

Milanez82

Professional
Rafa had some luck too, that 2-2 break point ball clipped the net, with Djokovic up a break serving, maybe the adrenaline carries him to win 3 more games
Plus Rafa was super clutch on most critical points in 1st and 3rd set, big serves, big forehands, its not mental when the other guy plays the point better
And lets not forget the ridiculous 84% 1st serves in Rafa served in 1st set and 75% overall
 

Milanez82

Professional
That's utter right and I know it. The third set was not "anti-climatic" in any sense. Djokovic had two break points but Rafa saved them (with a bit of luck maybe, as one of his shots touched the net).

Nadal lost the second set 6-1. Djokovic lost the third set 6-2. Following your logic (losing one set by 6-2 or less means the losing player is tired), it follows that Nadal was tired in the second set. Unless you display a double standard.
Djokovic lost 6-3 3rd
And had 30-30 in final game, so he had a chance to break back. In that final game he hit 2 returns long by a bit and they weren't exactly off tough serves
 

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
His BH is not dominating the other top players anymore on slow surfaces like clay and slow hard courts. So, he is having to outlast them or take a lot more risk than he used to. I think this takes away from the confidence and self-belief he had to beat Nadal on clay.

When he had a chance to break Nadal with the 1st break point at 3-3 in the third set, he made an easy FH error off a short ball which does make me think that he did not feel he is the better player who ‘deserves‘ to win against Nadal on clay.
Yeah, I think it's as much of a mental thing as anything else when he plays Nadal on clay these days. Even when he was playing really well to get those break points in the fifth game of the third set I just knew he wouldn't capitalize and I also knew pretty much how the rest of the match would unfold from that moment on. It's all become quite predictable and very frustrating to watch as a fan.
 

socallefty

Hall of Fame
Except one guy has beaten Nadal on clay and Nole on HC;)
If he didn’t have his 2nd serve yips, he would also be the defending USO champion. He was outplaying Novak at the AO from the baseline and choked on his serve when up a break in two sets. If he fixes his serve, he can be a serious threat at all the Slams unlike Thiem, Medvedev who are specialists. But, that‘s a bit ‘IF’.
 

Beckerserve

Legend
That's utter nonsense and you know it. He was barely moving his feet after the break in the third and was clearly gassed. That's no excuse for him, I believe Rafa would have won even had Novak been fully rested, but the third set might have been closer and not an anti-climactic end. It always amazes me that fanatical fans are totally unable ever to give props to a rival player. And the hypocrisy is clearly off the charts. Had Rafa played 5 hours on Saturday and lost today, VB would be enraged and in tatters. Novak was screwed again with the scheduling and few in the Nadal fanbase (aside from probably Michael and Rafa the Magnificent) would admit it.
Adrenalin is a big deal. Djokovic was riding the wave up until he missed the Bps. His energy sapped then and Nadal smelt blood and upped the ante.
Had it been a Monday final i think it would have been TB final set.
 

Shaj

Rookie
He does seems to have developed confidence issue with playing on clay with Nadal..Make no mistake it is a confidence issue..

In the past he used to get the odd win against Nadal every now and then..Now a victory seems so far and far.. He has regressed on Clay,definitely
 
N

Nuclear Warhead Sinner

Guest
He does seems to have developed confidence issue with playing on clay with Nadal..Make no mistake it is a confidence issue..

In the past he used to get the odd win against Nadal every now and then..Now a victory seems so far and far.. He has regressed on Clay,definitely
partially, but I think this is a big factor that isn't stressed enough:
Seems more vulnerable to heavier balls to me. Eventually breaks down. Doesn't generate the same racquet head speed on shoulder level these days.
Not being able to execute one of your favorite shots sure reduces your confidence in your game. I don't think Djokovic has lost any confidence in himself.
 

Shaj

Rookie
He looks subdued while playing against Nadal, no more outbursts and playing in zen mode. Its a mentality thing.Its that same RG 2014 Final form against Nadal. Subdued for the most part. Even in the first set while it looked tight its almost as if Novak is waiting for Nadal to make the first move and then get defeated.

I am not sure about other Novak fans, but i fail to see any progress in his game against Nadal on Clay. Untill some miracle happens and Nadal loses before RG final, Novak is not winning RG.

And yes, whats with his precision hitting thing against nadal lately, we want his more swashbuckling form, its what used to rattle Nadal and whats use to shake him up. No more of that stuff. It may win you a game or two against Nadal but you are not winning any match against him that way. He has to shake off Nadal and thats it. Soderling did that, You did that around 5 years ago. And not even his Volleying skills are Top Notch why does he want to go away to the Net?

Enough of his energy pyramid non sense, get back down to business,practise hard and do whatever it take to throw Nadal off.
 
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