Does Federer Actually Play With the RF97?

zalive said:
Typical ATP pros specs setups (and such were Roger's PS90 specs as well) are pretty much unplayable by majority of recs players. High SW, low TW and low RA (flexy) racquets are unforgiving to play with and require a flawless technique - try to arm the ball with such and you'll play miserable tennis.

You can release a racquet with such specs, but it won't sell well. If you want it to sell, you need to fake real specs. But in such case you don't issue any official claims those are real specs. Because they aren't.
Click to expand...

Which is why they take into consideration any modifications that need to be made to it. I think the issue is people are not viewing this in the correct context. The RF97 is essentially sort of a platform racquet now they dont have to do to much to it. From the photos I have seen of it in the customization process (and again P1 and Ron Yu regularly post these images on Twitter and IG) the racquet has a different handle, some lead in the hoop under the grommets and a P1 leather grip. Everything else seems to be the same. Now that is enough to take the specs to different places and there you go. But I would guess the net difference is likely around +.3 ounces and a small change in balance, SW, etc. And this is just an educated guess based on pics and what was said to be his specs.....

For example the Grigor PS97s was said to be the same exact racquet but he added a bit of weight to the handle. Makes sense as before this recent racquet change his racquets were said to be low static weight for a pro. It isnt all smoke and mirrors just have to be rational and realize the boogeyman isnt out to get you.
 
FedLIKEnot said:
Which is why they take into consideration any modifications that need to be made to it. I think the issue is people are not viewing this in the correct context. The RF97 is essentially sort of a platform racquet now they dont have to do to much to it. From the photos I have seen of it in the customization process (and again P1 and Ron Yu regularly post these images on Twitter and IG) the racquet has a different handle, some lead in the hoop under the grommets and a P1 leather grip. Everything else seems to be the same. Now that is enough to take the specs to different places and there you go. But I would guess the net difference is likely around +.3 ounces and a small change in balance, SW, etc. And this is just an educated guess based on pics and what was said to be his specs.....

For example the Grigor PS97s was said to be the same exact racquet but he added a bit of weight to the handle. Makes sense as before this recent racquet change his racquets were said to be low static weight for a pro. It isnt all smoke and mirrors just have to be rational and realize the boogeyman isnt out to get you.
Click to expand...

Yeah but WIlson never made impression it's a platform...but instead they send the message (obviously not directly and officially) that RF97A stock specs are Roger's specs. A different handle more or less won't change the SW, it might make a minor change in terms of weight, and yet less in terms of balance. Or you can even make it weigh the same, just eventually allow bit of difference in balance if he puts silicone at the butt.

So if there's lead under the grommets, Wilson's 'under the table' launched story about Roger's specs and Roger using the same hairpin doesn't hold water anymore. Because it's the hairpin that bears racquet's SW, not the handle. You add lead at the hoop, you inevitably increase the SW. Not to mention it's a different mass distribution in the hoop as well.
 
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FedLIKEnot said:
For example the Grigor PS97s was said to be the same exact racquet but he added a bit of weight to the handle. Makes sense as before this recent racquet change his racquets were said to be low static weight for a pro. It isnt all smoke and mirrors just have to be rational and realize the boogeyman isnt out to get you.
Click to expand...

And as for Grigor's racquet, to tell the truth I know less about his specs, but didn't pics of actual Grigor's racquet suggest it's a different mould to PS97s, with smaller head size (assessed at 93'' while 97s has 95-96''), more similar to older PS95s (still not the same mould as 95s but similar in terms of hoop size and shape) only with 18x17 drilling pattern as in 97s?
 
zalive said:
Yeah but WIlson never made impression it's a platform...but instead they send the message (obviously not directly and officially) that RF97A stock specs are Roger's specs. A different handle more or less won't change the SW, it might make a minor change in terms of weight, and yet less in terms of balance. Or you can even make it weigh the same, just eventually allow bit of difference in balance if he puts silicone at the butt.

So if there's lead under the grommets, Wilson's 'under the table' launched story about Roger's specs and Roger using the same hairpin doesn't hold water anymore. Because it's the hairpin that bears racquet's SW, not the handle. You add lead at the hoop, you inevitably increase the SW.
Click to expand...

True but in matching the racquets there will always be some fine tuning. That is what I dont think you are getting and I dont feel like arguing back and forth. I will just say its naive to think especially all of our own individual experiences buying racquets that they could exactly match 100s of racquets a year for anyone in the manufacturing process alone.
 
zalive said:
And as for Grigor's racquet, to tell the truth I know less about his specs, but didn't pics of actual Grigor's racquet suggest it's a different mould to PS97s, with smaller head size (assessed at 93'' while 97s has 95-96''), more similar to older PS95s (still not the same mould as 95s but similar in terms of hoop size and shape) only with 18x17 drilling pattern as in 97s?
Click to expand...

There was a time when he was using the actual 97s and the time before and after that he was using his custom 93. Personally I would love to a slightly more closed spin effect pattern in a 95. I only just changed out of the PS95s (16/15) myself this year.
 
FedLIKEnot said:
True but in matching the racquets there will always be some fine tuning. That is what I dont think you are getting and I dont feel like arguing back and forth. I will just say its naive to think especially all of our own individual experiences buying racquets that they could exactly match 100s of racquets a year for anyone in the manufacturing process alone.
Click to expand...

You tell the truth about matching and lead at the hoop to do so, it's inevitable.
So only the quantity of lead might suggest something different. Of course in case it's a different hairpin than stock we still cannot know it from the lead at the hoop.

FedLIKEnot said:
There was a time when he was using the actual 97s and the time before and after that he was using his custom 93. Personally I would love to a slightly more closed spin effect pattern in a 95. I only just changed out of the PS95s (16/15) myself this year.
Click to expand...

Nice! at the moment I play with 95s myself as well :) well I agree on the pattern, 16 mains are quite alright but they could make it, say, 16/17 and it would make a great racquet, still open pattern but not extremely. Well I find the narrowness of the hoop (including PWS narrowing) saves the thing so it's still in control, but it's really an interesting platform in my eyes - by increasing the TW for example you get better trajectory control an better penetration, yet spin is still really good. Currently I used it with 6 grams added at 3+9 o'clock (mostly on the outer side of the frame to maximize TW gain from the lead - not practical I know but I'm careful with my racquet) plus 1.5 grams at 12 o'clock. It gives it a weaponish directional power. Though I'm sure there are yet better customizations possible on that racquet that need to be explored.
 
zalive said:
Yeah but WIlson never made impression it's a platform...but instead they send the message (obviously not directly and officially) that RF97A stock specs are Roger's specs. A different handle more or less won't change the SW, it might make a minor change in terms of weight, and yet less in terms of balance. Or you can even make it weigh the same, just eventually allow bit of difference in balance if he puts silicone at the butt.

So if there's lead under the grommets, Wilson's 'under the table' launched story about Roger's specs and Roger using the same hairpin doesn't hold water anymore. Because it's the hairpin that bears racquet's SW, not the handle. You add lead at the hoop, you inevitably increase the SW. Not to mention it's a different mass distribution in the hoop as well.
Click to expand...

I might be overthinking this but I believe Fed might even have different spec racquets for different times of the games. Start with a heavier racquet but as the game progresses and arms grow weary, switch to a more HL racquet.
 
chikoo said:
I might be overthinking this but I believe Fed might even have different spec racquets for different times of the games. Start with a heavier racquet but as the game progresses and arms grow weary, switch to a more HL racquet.
Click to expand...
No, the RF97 is very light and his mods wouldn't add much .There is no way his arm grows weary before his legs and back does.
He would likely, as the norm, have different tensions main to counter temperature differences.
 
chikoo said:
I might be overthinking this but I believe Fed might even have different spec racquets for different times of the games. Start with a heavier racquet but as the game progresses and arms grow weary, switch to a more HL racquet.
Click to expand...
No, the RF97 is very light and his mods wouldn't add much .There is no way his arm grows weary before his legs and back does.
He would likely, as the norm, have different tensions main to counter temperature differences.
 
zalive said:
Typical ATP pros specs setups (and such were Roger's PS90 specs as well) are pretty much unplayable by majority of recs players. High SW, low TW and low RA (flexy) racquets are unforgiving to play with and require a flawless technique - try to arm the ball with such and you'll play miserable tennis.

You can release a racquet with such specs, but it won't sell well. If you want it to sell, you need to fake real specs. But in such case you don't issue any official claims those are real specs. Because they aren't.
Click to expand...


Just thought id pop in here to say a couple things,

1, the “you arent good enough to play with feds real racquet” is a complete loser attitude, pedaled by people whose (skill level/time spent practicing) ratio is in the toilet. Plenty of players could deal with the pros real racquets. We arent all mfing children that youre trying to keep sugar away from.

And 2, As cool as it would be to be able to buy feds actual racquet, jokers racquet is the true prize.
 
Djokovicfan said:
Just thought id pop in here to say a couple things,

1, the “you arent good enough to play with feds real racquet” is a complete loser attitude, pedaled by people whose (skill level/time spent practicing) ratio is in the toilet. Plenty of players could deal with the pros real racquets. We arent all mfing children that youre trying to keep sugar away from.

And 2, As cool as it would be to be able to buy feds actual racquet, jokers racquet is the true prize.
Click to expand...
If you follow TennisNerd on Facebook he has one of Novaks rackets that he played with!
 
Djokovicfan said:
Just thought id pop in here to say a couple things,

1, the “you arent good enough to play with feds real racquet” is a complete loser attitude, pedaled by people whose (skill level/time spent practicing) ratio is in the toilet. Plenty of players could deal with the pros real racquets. We arent all mfing children that youre trying to keep sugar away from.

And 2, As cool as it would be to be able to buy feds actual racquet, jokers racquet is the true prize.
Click to expand...

To point one: these people (at least those that are saying it with good intentions) simply say that most people who would buy the exact same pro raquets will be better off with something else, and that is true.

What is not true is that they will not be able to play with those raquets, as though they are some alien technology.

So, basically those who advocate for the raquet companies not releasing the actual pro raquets to keep doing it for the good of the customer either put out coherent arguments, or just forfeit the point.

Plenty of people bought Federer's raquet and play with it regularly, so that is that.

2) there is no "ultimate prize" or at least not in the sense that one raquet plays so much better than everything else for everyone

Most people obsess over raquets without acknowledgeing that it is just a bit of fun to play the game and most of the time it doesn't matter much whether one plays 0.00003% better with something else, mostly because they will never be able to use the potential of "the ultimate prize" the way they would with a raquet more suitable for their game/level.

:cool:
 
Tennis_Hands said:
To point one: these people (at least those that are saying it with good intentions) simply say that most people who would buy the exact same pro raquets will be better off with something else, and that is true.

What is not true is that they will not be able to play with those raquets, as though they are some alien technology.

So, basically those who advocate for the raquet companies not releasing the actual pro raquets to keep doing it for the good of the customer either put out coherent arguments, or just forfeit the point.

Plenty of people bought Federer's raquet and play with it regularly, so that is that.

2) there is no "ultimate prize" or at least not in the sense that one raquet plays so much better than everything else for everyone

Most people obsess over raquets without acknowledgeing that it is just a bit of fun to play the game and most of the time it doesn't matter much whether one plays 0.00003% better with something else, mostly because they will never be able to use the potential of "the ultimate prize" the way they would with a raquet more suitable for their game/level.

:cool:
Click to expand...
Meh, its silly to not let people
At least be able to try out pro stocks and
See how they play with them. You seem to
Assume that most players are in denial about their ability and would placebo themselves into believing they play best with a pro stock when its obvious they dont.
And a racquet makes alot more difference than 0.00003%. I would estimate a good vs bad racquet for a person improves their game by up to 10% especially when considering the interaction between how the racquet wants to be played and the natural style of the player. So your off by jackass tier orders of magnitude with you 3 hundred thousandths of a percent figure buddy.

Also, the ultimate low powered, superior pocketing players racquets like most pro stocks are considered a prize to alot of people.
 
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Djokovicfan said:
Also, the ultimate low powered, superior pocketing players racquets like most pro stocks are considered a prize to alot of people.
Click to expand...

Cannot be low powered with those pro specs, except for the low twist weight (which makes them low powered if you miss the string bed centre).
 
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Djokovicfan said:
Meh, its silly to not let people
At least be able to try out pro stocks and
See how they play with them. You seem to
Assume that most players are in denial about their ability and would placebo themselves into believing they play best with a pro stock when its obvious they dont.
And a racquet makes alot more difference than 0.00003%. I would estimate a good vs bad racquet for a person improves their game by up to 10% especially when considering the interaction between how the racquet wants to be played and the natural style of the player. So your off by jackass tier orders of magnitude with you 3 hundred thousandths of a percent figure buddy.

Also, the ultimate low powered, superior pocketing players racquets like most pro stocks are considered a prize to alot of people.
Click to expand...

You seem to just want to argue.

If you didn't, you would notice that I was actually confirming that the recreational players should be able to buy the pro raquets.

The only distinction that I made is the argumentation why they should be able to do it: unlike the really popular opinion amongst many that the reason why they "need" the raquet of a pro is because they will be able to play better with it (the majority won't), the real reason why they "need" to be able to buy that raquet is that by doing that their pleasure of associating with the game/tennis player rises, and also they are protected from the disappointment of finding out that they have bought into a hype, paintjobs etc.,and also because they are buying something genuine.

As for the percents, it was obviously a metaphor, so you wasted your advice here.

Of course that there are people that would be able to use the potential of a pro raquet to some extent, but their level is already very high, so we are not talking about the mass consumers here.

I do not know why you repeat the word "prize" as if a raquet is some sort of work of art that is extremely valuable.

A raquet is an inexpensive tool for practicing a sport, not some sort of an object that needs to be cherished.

8-)
 
Tennis_Hands said:
You seem to just want to argue.

If you didn't, you would notice that I was actually confirming that the recreational players should be able to buy the pro raquets.

The only distinction that I made is the argumentation why they should be able to do it: unlike the really popular opinion amongst many that the reason why they "need" the raquet of a pro is because they will be able to play better with it (the majority won't), the real reason why they "need" to be able to buy that raquet is that by doing that their pleasure of associating with the game/tennis player rises, and also they are protected from the disappointment of finding out that they have bought into a hype, paintjobs etc.,and also because they are buying something genuine.

As for the percents, it was obviously a metaphor, so you wasted your advice here.

Of course that there are people that would be able to use the potential of a pro raquet to some extent, but their level is already very high, so we are not talking about the mass consumers here.

I do not know why you repeat the word "prize" as if a raquet is some sort of work of art that is extremely valuable.

A raquet is an inexpensive tool for practicing a sport, not some sort of an object that needs to be cherished.

:cool:
Click to expand...
Most people can’t play well with the pros racquets because the swing weight (not the static weight) is just too. There was an interesting vlog by TW where this is discussed. Turns out that all of this discussion about racquet weight doesn’t have any impact on performance for most players until the SW reaches about 340. Rec players don’t have the strength and technique to maximize swing speed over that. Pros, however, can easily tolerate much higher swing weights because— well— their pros and do it all day long. Under 340 it’s really about your preference and and your willingness to learn proper technique.

But, the argument that most people can’t play with RF97 is trash. Even Feds real spec from his heavy ones selected from production runs are right at 340 SW. Nadal and Joker’s SW’s are much higher and out of range for a rec player. RF97A in weight, balance, and SW is much like racquets from the mid 80s.Everyone seemed to play just fine with them then.I was a scrawny 14yo and played with a heavy frame just fine.
 
KYHacker said:
Most people can’t play well with the pros racquets because the swing weight (not the static weight) is just too. There was an interesting vlog by TW where this is discussed. Turns out that all of this discussion about racquet weight doesn’t have any impact on performance for most players until the SW reaches about 340. Rec players don’t have the strength and technique to maximize swing speed over that. Pros, however, can easily tolerate much higher swing weights because— well— their pros and do it all day long. Under 340 it’s really about your preference and and your willingness to learn proper technique.

But, the argument that most people can’t play with RF97 is trash. Even Feds real spec from his heavy ones selected from production runs are right at 340 SW. Nadal and Joker’s SW’s are much higher and out of range for a rec player. RF97A in weight, balance, and SW is much like racquets from the mid 80s.Everyone seemed to play just fine with them then.I was a scrawny 14yo and played with a heavy frame just fine.
Click to expand...

There were lots of people here that played with the K90 and KPS88 and those had much higher swingweights compared to the RF97.

But yeah, tennis is a game of fitness. My opinion is that you should spend far more time training than you play tennis. Especially as a recreational player - you need to shore up muscles and stamina in a lot of other places besides those which are worked by tennis - for quality of life as you age.
 
movdqa said:
There were lots of people here that played with the K90 and KPS88 and those had much higher swingweights compared to the RF97.

But yeah, tennis is a game of fitness. My opinion is that you should spend far more time training than you play tennis. Especially as a recreational player - you need to shore up muscles and stamina in a lot of other places besides those which are worked by tennis - for quality of life as you age.
Click to expand...

Even more true as one ages.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
zalive said:
A different handle more or less won't change the SW, it might make a minor change in terms of weight, and yet less in terms of balance. Or you can even make it weigh the same, just eventually allow bit of difference in balance if he puts silicone at the butt.

So if there's lead under the grommets, Wilson's 'under the table' launched story about Roger's specs and Roger using the same hairpin doesn't hold water anymore.
Click to expand...
The new handle could have a very different weight than retail. More importantly, no, lead does not change the hairpin.
 
DNShade said:
Unbelievable. This is still going on??? Fed uses the exact same frame you can buy. The P1 does a little grip work and lead work. That's it. Can we all move on now?
Click to expand...
Narrator Voice: They did not
 
jackson vile said:
I would like to see someone actually pull of the specs with a racket from tennis warehouse, would really settle things
Click to expand...
they would have to remove the foam grip and weights in the handle to start with what fed pourportedly received from wilson.
 
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