Does getting one of those lite racquets and adding lots of lead etc make it good?

A

Anatoly

Banned
Does getting one of those 'lite' racquets and adding lots of lead tape and silicone etc make it into a good racquet?

For example, Wilson have several versions of the same racquet in Lite, Team, and Heavy versions.

If I were to buy the Lite version would I be able to customize it so that it plays like the Heavy version but in the way that I want?
 
It can be done but it is a lot of work and quite difficult to get it just right.

If you just want the weight and balance right, I suggest you keep demoing until you find something that is closest to your liking and then do a very light modification.

Having said this, I do choose very light racquets because my modification involves lengthening of the handle by almost an inch. Since this lengthening results in a great increase in swingweight, I must start out with a very light platform.

But if you're not lengthening a racquet, I suggest you let the racquet company do most of your work for you.
 
It certainly is possible. As scotus mentioned though, it isn't easy to nail the specs. If you do consider doing it, make another thread asking how to best do it.
 
Anatoly said:
Does getting one of those 'lite' racquets and adding lots of lead tape and silicone etc make it into a good racquet?

For example, Wilson have several versions of the same racquet in Lite, Team, and Heavy versions.

If I were to buy the Lite version would I be able to customize it so that it plays like the Heavy version but in the way that I want?
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Yes if you know what you are doing.

I would buy the Dunlop s5.0 lite and add nearly 100g of weight to it. Its a fantastic racket at those specs. I recently changed to a 6.1 95 because I realized that the dunlop was just too powerful.

Something to be said for getting the racket close to your spec and adding a few grams vs starting light and adding a bunch. But if you have specific needs then its the best way.
 
Shroud said:
Yes if you know what you are doing.

I would buy the Dunlop s5.0 lite and add nearly 100g of weight to it. Its a fantastic racket at those specs. I recently changed to a 6.1 95 because I realized that the dunlop was just too powerful.

Something to be said for getting the racket close to your spec and adding a few grams vs starting light and adding a bunch. But if you have specific needs then its the best way.
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Why didn't you get a Six.One Team Shroud?
 
SpinToWin said:
Why didn't you get a Six.One Team Shroud?
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They don't have it. All I saw was the 6.1 95 (18x20, 16x19) and the 95s.

Maybe its a Europe thing.

I wanted the 18x20 and low power so I went for the 95 (18x20).

How is the Team different?
 
Shroud said:
They don't have it. All I saw was the 6.1 95 (18x20, 16x19) and the 95s.

Maybe its a Europe thing.

I wanted the 18x20 and low power so I went for the 95 (18x20).

How is the Team different?
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A lot lighter and easier to customize.

Edit: the new one is called 95L. My bad
 
scotus said:
It can be done but it is a lot of work and quite difficult to get it just right.
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SpinToWin said:
It certainly is possible. As scotus mentioned though, it isn't easy to nail the specs.
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What if I just wrap lead tape around the entire frame? ie round the hoop, down the middle and into the bottom of the handle? That would make things even so I don't have to worry about the specs? Would that work?
 
Anatoly said:
Does getting one of those 'lite' racquets and adding lots of lead tape and silicone etc make it into a good racquet?

For example, Wilson have several versions of the same racquet in Lite, Team, and Heavy versions.

If I were to buy the Lite version would I be able to customize it so that it plays like the Heavy version but in the way that I want?
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is essentially what the pros do with pro stock racquets, which come lighter than stock to make room for customized weighting.

Now, can you make the Lite version of a particular line play exactly the same as the Tour (or whatever they call the heavy version) model? I think that depends on exactly which brand and racquet line you're looking at. Quite a lot can be done using the TW University Reverse Engineering Tool to figure out exactly where to add mass to the Lite version to match the heavy one, but there is always a question about whether the Lite and Heavy versions have the same layup.

Are the layups (amount and orientation of graphite sheets put in the mold) identical except for non-structural weights added to the heavy version? Or does the heavy version have additional graphite layers or something else that fundamentally changes the playing characteristics in a way that adding lead tape or whatever after the fact cannot match? Again, it probably varies by racquet line.

For example, playtest reports from players on this forum suggest that the layup of the Lite version of the Yonex Ai98 is probably identical to the heavy version. The Lite version is simply missing a bunch of mass in the handle (a chunk of lead sandwiched in the hairpin during manufacture) and a couple grams at 11&1.

On the other hand, the RF97 Autograph is significantly stiffer than its little brother, the PS97 (approx. 70 vs. 67), which tells us right away that the layup of the heavier Autograph version probably has more graphite (or a stiffer grade of graphite) in the layup. So you might be able to match the specs exactly but the two models will still feel and play differently.

Now, are those differences of critical importance? Totally depends on the player. Some may prefer the stiffer feel of the stock RF97 while others would like the more flexible PS97 weighted up to match the RF7.

In any case, adding lots of mass to a lightweight frame is by no means verboten, although it can be frustrating if you don't have a clear idea of what you're trying to accomplish (target specs) or how to hit that target with customization techniques.
 
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What corners said...

I tried to do just that w/ the Yonex VCORE Tour 310 (see http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=464376) and then the Pacific X Force Lite (see http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=469907).

The Yonex was my first attempt at customizing. While I eventually got to a weight & balance I liked, I couldn't get dialed in w/ the frame.

For the X Force Lite, I knew going in that it was slightly different than the X Force Pro (my original frame), but thought I'd be able to get to something I liked. Never got there.

Ended up taking a bunch of the lead off the Lite & now my daughter uses it.
 
I've tried this a few times with a few different frames (RDiS 200 lite, Pro Staff 100, Pure Storm Team, Steam 99LS, Formula Lite, Dunlop M5.0, and G Radical mp) are a few that come to mind, but I'm sure there have been more.

I generally got all of these up to 325sw and a weight around 330g, with a combination of silicone in the handle and lead tape on the hoop. While I played well with most, the key ingredient generally missing from their heavier sibling was plow through. Even though specs were similar, I found racquet head speed was more crucial with these platform frames for some reason.

I felt that if I went further towards pro spec territory of 330+ sw and 340g+, then the results would have been better.
 
I played a couple of years with heavily weighted Head Radical Team 102 frames. They were thin beam and flexible, which made them arm friendly. They were really light, but I added lots of weight through trial and error. I had about 5 of them, and had them all matched in total weight, 12.6 ounces or so. I had lots of lead tape at 9, 12, and 3. I taped a nickel on each side of the frame just above the grip, and then had about 3 wraps of tournagrip on them. I had them all set up the same, and they played very well for what I wanted. Biggest issue was lead tape would sometimes fly off in a workout, so I was regularly having to patch them up. Got tired of the hassle and switched to a frame that did not need much modification, but I still have them.
 
Shroud said:
S2win I think it is Europe because its not here at TW, and Europe has all the cool stuff.
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Just a fun factoid for the future, Canada gets all the european releases available to us, so if you happened to know a guy who works at a Canadian proshop (cough cough) it could easily be worked out. ;)

Cheers mate,

-Fuji
 
Fuji said:
Just a fun factoid for the future, Canada gets all the european releases available to us, so if you happened to know a guy who works at a Canadian proshop (cough cough) it could easily be worked out. ;)

Cheers mate,

-Fuji
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So good to know. Anyone know the specs on the L version?

I am ok with the one I have its 380g which is good for me I think. Played with a technifiber at that spec and heavier so its all good so far.

Why do companies do stupid things like this?

And why Fuji did you change your sig?
 
I bought lead tape but have never used it. I like hunting for a stick that I like stock. However, recently I'm getting into very specific grip shape. The nCode 6.1 95 is my fav.
I want that handle on all my sticks. :-)
 
Blindly adding weight to a tennis racquet is the road to failure. You need to know what specs you want and the only way to do that is to play lots of tennis and figure out what specs work for you.

There is no possible way to tell you what specs will make a frame good. It is different for everyone.
 
Anatoly said:
I've decided to buy one of these - real bargain at $99.

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Wilson_Burn_100_Team/descpageRCWILSON-B1HT.html

How much lead tape do you think I should try to turn it into something good? Is it something I can do myself or do I need to take it to a tennis shop?

Also what brand of lead tape is a good one? There is a quite a few?

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/catpage-HEADTAPE.html
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That Burn Team has impressive specs (from someone looking for lower RA). I wonder if it plays stiff or flexible given the Beam.

I've never found that the brand of lead tape matters unless there isn't enough glue to keep it attached.

The approach that worked best for me with lead tape is to add small amounts and then see how it plays and adjust my game. The downside to this approach is that it can take weeks to months to get to something that you really like.
 
Power Player said:
Blindly adding weight to a tennis racquet is the road to failure. You need to know what specs you want and the only way to do that is to play lots of tennis and figure out what specs work for you.

There is no possible way to tell you what specs will make a frame good. It is different for everyone.
Click to expand...

I can adjust to any racquet. I think I start by doing what this guy did:


049210215RDLDI_ENTRE_DIMITROV.jpg
 
Ok, so you are going to add weight to a frame like a pro did even though you have no idea what his starting specs are, why the lead was placed in the areas it was, don't even own the same racquet, and do not have the talent level of the player who's frame you are copying?

Sounds great. Have fun with that.
 
I could see if there were about 1-2 brands and 3-5 models of tennis racquets on the market, but considering the fact that their are hundreds of models I find it strange.

Why fiddle around with adding lead, silicone, putty, etc..when you can pretty much guarantee with some patient demo'ing you can simply find a stick that suits you fine?

Don't get me wrong, I realize PRO's customize..but then again they are PRO"S!!!!! Which implies they have honed their games and skills so much that the tiniest tweaking will make a difference.

I think around these parts folks conveniently forget about the whole honing their game and skills part, and are quick to constantly work on the tool rather than the tool operator!

Try a lot of sticks, have fun, use the one that suits you best, and leave the lead tape to the Pros.
 
You can get injured playing with something that's too heavy so the approach of starting out with something similar to your own specs and then going from there is a safer way to go.

Demoing frames is a pain in the neck unless you have a job at a shipping company. I went through a phase where I just bought frames and played with them and then put them into my closet if I didn't like them long-term.

I then went to heavier frames, to the point where there was nothing at retail. I also went to XL frames where there aren't a lot of options as well.

So going the pro stock route (or buying light frames and adding lead) may work for you. But make sure that you have the fitness to support your racquet. I worked on the fitness before working on the racquet as the former is a lot more important than the latter.
 
HRB said:
I could see if there were about 1-2 brands and 3-5 models of tennis racquets on the market, but considering the fact that their are hundreds of models I find it strange.

Why fiddle around with adding lead, silicone, putty, etc..when you can pretty much guarantee with some patient demo'ing you can simply find a stick that suits you fine?

Don't get me wrong, I realize PRO's customize..but then again they are PRO"S!!!!! Which implies they have honed their games and skills so much that the tiniest tweaking will make a difference.

I think around these parts folks conveniently forget about the whole honing their game and skills part, and are quick to constantly work on the tool rather than the tool operator!

Try a lot of sticks, have fun, use the one that suits you best, and leave the lead tape to the Pros.
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I think there is room for a middle ground here. For building up a platform racquet to spec, yes, leave that to the pros. Most players don't even know what their target specs are, let alone how to get there accurately.

For beginning to intermediate players, it is going to be most efficent to demo a handful of racquets, pick the one that feels best, and just stick with it. Totally agree with you.

Which leaves a significant pool of advenced rec players. Ones that have been playing awhile, know their game, and know about what specs they want. They already have racquets, they may have a closet full of them. If they need something different out of thier equipment, it is a minor tweek. Like you said, there are hundreds of racquets out there. If they are saying to themselves "Man, i just need a little more weight in the hoop" or "I need this to be a couple more points head light", why go through a long demo process when one afternoon and $3 worth of lead tape could solve the problem?
 
^^^

Thats a very accurate point but not what the OP wants to do. His post clearly shows that he has no idea about what specs he wants or customization.
 
Shroud said:
So good to know. Anyone know the specs on the L version?

I am ok with the one I have its 380g which is good for me I think. Played with a technifiber at that spec and heavier so its all good so far.

Why do companies do stupid things like this?

And why Fuji did you change your sig?
Click to expand...

Not sure on the specs. I've had varsity players come with with both string patterns however, and neither one is prostock. Both 16 mains and 18 mains. Exactly the same stick as far as I know, outside of the string pattern. Weird stuff.

Oh, I changed it because for all intensive purposes I've retired haha. Accumulation of injuries has had me out for months now. The last time I played a match was the first week of January, and before that was early November I think. Essentially since October I've been on a hesitant injured reserve, but my docs recommended me to completely shut it down for the time being. I still coach but I'm not even able to hit with my students for more than a couple rallies without resetting the progress made on my back thus far.

-Fuji
 
Before even adding ANY lead tape into the head of that 283g superlight feather, you should add 20+g to the handle. Otherwise you'll create an injury creating head heavy monster.

Honestly, seems like you have no clue what you're doing. Why go towards this route? :confused:
 
jrxl said:
I think there is room for a middle ground here. For building up a platform racquet to spec, yes, leave that to the pros. Most players don't even know what their target specs are, let alone how to get there accurately.

For beginning to intermediate players, it is going to be most efficent to demo a handful of racquets, pick the one that feels best, and just stick with it. Totally agree with you.

Which leaves a significant pool of advenced rec players. Ones that have been playing awhile, know their game, and know about what specs they want. They already have racquets, they may have a closet full of them. If they need something different out of thier equipment, it is a minor tweek. Like you said, there are hundreds of racquets out there. If they are saying to themselves "Man, i just need a little more weight in the hoop" or "I need this to be a couple more points head light", why go through a long demo process when one afternoon and $3 worth of lead tape could solve the problem?
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Totally agree with you, however the OP stated " Does getting one of those lite racquets and adding lots of lead etc make it good? ", and THAT just seems silly. Thanks.
 
Make it good is very subjective... Don't know if anyone can offer advice on that.

However, we can advise you on how to achieve the specs you like. Do you know what light racquet you are trying to modify?
 
OP, I answered your question with real world experience, having been in your situation.

Just trying to save you some time. If you want to be insulting or troll, thats cool. I thought you actually needed advice.
 
Problem is, it works.

I took a Blade 98, added a leather grip, silicone in handle, and lead at 3/9, and I ended up with a livelier but more consistent version of the RF97. Same balance, just 15g lighter and more precise.

I've also tried the Instinct MP with a ton of lead from 4 to 7 (thru 12), and l got a live racket without having to swing as hard. Perfect doubles racket for me. It's at 11.8oz now, but spin and power was more dramatic than any 12+ oz racket I own.

Modifying a light racket gives you very different hitting properties when compared to a stock racket with the same specs.
 
Unfortunately weight and RA may not tell the whole picture. Layup is an important factor in how a racquet feels and plays. I bought a couple Graphene Extreme Lites thinking I had found my new holy grail. They weigh 265 grams unstrung and have an unstrung RA of 63. I added roughly 30 grams of silicone to the hairpin (filled one chamber completely) and 6 grams of lead to the hoop. Strung with an overgrip they came out to approximately 325 grams, 320 SW, and 4-6 pts HL. Unfortunately, they did not play like the specs would suggest they would and they felt brassy and stiff...
 
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