Does Laver Cup have a Serious Problem?

prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
In this, the third year of the Laver Cup, a series of tennis matches over a period of 3 days, it’s clear that the premise which is “Team Europe” versus “Team World” is a bizarre concoction which doesn’t work. I have no argument with a tournament honouring Laver, and if anyone deserves to have a tournament in their honour, it’s the Rocket.

If tennis wishes to honour Laver, however, the tournament they’ve designed is deeply flawed. First, what is Team World? Isn’t Europe part of the world? And why Europe vs. the World? It seems like an arbitrary designation that makes little sense. Yet, when one delves deeper into the structure of this tournament, there is a definite logic at work here. If one would make an analogy to gambling, it would translate into this is a “stacked deck”. Team Europe has stacked the odds in favour of themselves from the very beginning. Even when Roger and Rafa retire, there are plenty of top ranked European players to take their places.

Going forward, it’s difficult to think that the Laver Cup won’t have both an image and deep-rooted problem with sustainability. A tournament cannot maintain its credibility when one side is stacked with talent, and the other side far less so. This translates into a high likelihood that Team Europe will win for the third consecutive time. It will be a miracle if they don’t. The prognosis is this; no tournament is viable if the same outcome is expected year after year. Audiences will diminish, and possibly sponsors as well. Players will be less likely to participate, and the event itself could peter out.

If Team Europe can’t lose then fans and sponsors alike will begin to question the tournament’s viability and sustainability. Currently, the tournament basically owes its lustre to the fact that two of the best players in the history of the game have committed themselves to play. Of course, the pay-off for both of them is extremely high. Each member of the winning team receives $250K.

There is definitely a fun, positive vibe to the Laver Cup. As a long-time tennis aficionado, I enjoy watching players form a team and engage in the spirit of camaraderie as they cheer each other on. Ultimately, the Laver Cup will rise and fall based on how the two teams perform over time. If Team Europe continues to dominate as it has the past three years, it may become increasingly less interesting to fans, sponsors and venue owners. When people lose interest and ticket sales go downhill, a tournament usually dies a slow death.

Perhaps Laver Cup could investigate other possibilities such as: NextGen v. Grand Slam and Masters Champions, or separate the tournament into days such as North America v. South America, Europe v. Asia, Australia v. Europe, etc. These kinds of variations would more likely keep people interested and engaged, and attract the players necessary to sustain the tournament over the years. Given that the tennis season is long, arduous and already physically challenging, the tournament is going to have to lure them to participate. The current format doesn’t work, and isn’t sustainable for the long-term.
 

icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
Some fair points but tbh if the young guys nedd laver cup to topple the old guys thats s problem, they need to be doing that on the main tour. I still maintain if jmac werent so obsessed with team fratboys world would be better.
 

Raiden

Hall of Fame
It's an exhibition.

So of course the format is contrived and it can be changed if the it doesn't work. You (the negative Nancy who opened this thread) have bothered to type a huge paragraph full of complaints yet failed to provide a single alternative. That stands out a bit. What do you suggest is a better division format consisting of a maximum of two sides? That's the main goal here: team tennis but with only two teams, just as its inspiration tournament (the Ryder Cup in golf, where it's USA versus Europe)

For tennis, as of right now the simplistic "Europe vs. World" works, as every seat in the house has an ass on it. There are plenty tournaments that are much more serious yet can't match Laver Cup's 100% capacity at every single match.

My suggestion: perhaps in the future someone should invent a more creative fancy name, like a North American sports/superhero style nickname for both teams. "Euro goats" versus "World (dark) horses" or something.
 
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icedevil0289

G.O.A.T.
It's an exhibition.

So of course the format is contrived and it can be changed if the it doesn't work. You (the negative Nancy who opened this thread) have bothered to type a huge paragraph full of complaints yet failed to provide a single alternative. That stands out a bit. What do you suggest is a better division format consisting of a maximum of two sides? That's the main goal here: team tennis but with only two teams, just as its inspiration tournament (the Ryder Cup in golf, where it's USA versus Europe)

For tennis, as of right now the simplistic "Europe vs. World" works, as every seat in the house has an ass on it. Perhaps in the future someone should invent a North American sports superhero nickname for both sides. "Euro royals" versus "World sharks" or something.

There are plenty tournaments that are much more serious yet can't match Laver Cup's 100% capacity at every single match.
I don't think op was trying to criticize for the sake of criticism. Id say its not quite your regular exho though but tennis doesnt know how to digest something different. Op imo did bring up some good points, i dont agree with them all but we shall see how long this lasts. For now i find laver cup in some ways far mor3 enjoyable than certain masters snd slams
 

SeeingDusk

Hall of Fame
it won't dwindle out. take the nba and mlb for example. when they first started out, celtics and yankees kept winning. now look at where we are. people didn't stop attending because it became "predictable". this will apply to the laver cup too. and plus it's good that team europe has a lot of wins, because team world might have amazing players in the future who will help team world win a lot. so good for team europe to get the lead from the start.
 

Rickenbacker4003

Hall of Fame
Too bad this wasn’t around in the 90’s. Team World would’ve had the likes of Sampras, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Rafter, Philippoussis, Rios, Kuerten. Meanwhile Team Europe would’ve had Edberg, Becker, Ivanisevic, Krajicek, Lendl, Muster, Herman, Kafelnikov, Moya, Stich. It would’ve been more evenly matched and exciting. Team World may not reach the level of Europe, but when Nadal, Federer and Djokovic are gone it will be more competitive.
 

DeathStar

Rookie
Too bad this wasn’t around in the 90’s. Team World would’ve had the likes of Sampras, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Rafter, Philippoussis, Rios, Kuerten. Meanwhile Team Europe would’ve had Edberg, Becker, Ivanisevic, Krajicek, Lendl, Muster, Herman, Kafelnikov, Moya, Stich. It would’ve been more evenly matched and exciting. Team World may not reach the level of Europe, but when Nadal, Federer and Djokovic are gone it will be more competitive.


That would have been awesome!!
 

Carlg

New User
Or just do like NA sports and fudge the lines: eg Memphis and New Orleans being western teams(NBA).

If Russia, for example, was considered “world” that would balance things wouldn’t it? NextGen of Shapo/Félix/Med/KK would be competitive with post big 3 team Europe wouldn’t you think?
 

oldmanfan

Legend
Or just do like NA sports and fudge the lines: eg Memphis and New Orleans being western teams(NBA).

If Russia, for example, was considered “world” that would balance things wouldn’t it? NextGen of Shapo/Félix/Med/KK would be competitive with post big 3 team Europe wouldn’t you think?

Yes it would be, but that's not required.

Many matches have been competitive in all 3 LCs (TE won LC17 by 2 points, after being CP down. Isner had MP on Fedr in LC18). This year alone, after 6 matches played, Team World won 2, but out of the other 4, 3 of them they could've won. Going into the STB, Fritz and Shapovalov were the favorites. Also, Nick played well today and had his chances against Fedr too. The score is TE 5-3, but it could've been TW 5-3 or TW 7-1. It was that uncertain :eek:.
 

oldmanfan

Legend
Yes it would be, but that's not required.

Many matches have been competitive in all 3 LCs (TE won LC17 by 2 points, after being CP down. Isner had MP on Fedr in LC18). This year alone, after 6 matches played, Team World won 2, but out of the other 4, 3 of them they could've won. Going into the STB, Fritz and Shapovalov were the favorites. Also, Nick played well today and had his chances against Fedr too. The score is TE 5-3, but it could've been TW 5-3 or TW 7-1. It was that uncertain :eek:.

To add, many don't realize that the Laver Cup's genius scoring system having a Super Tiebreak as set 3 gives EACH team a real chance to win. Had Laver Cup been Bo5, then Team World would have almost no chance to win. Bo5 will always favor the better tennis player bc it's hard to fluke 3 sets (hence it's why Big3 win so many slams). Take the 'best-of X sets' to the extreme and boil it down to one set, or one game, or one point, and what do we get? As the #s get smaller, the certainty of either side winning becomes more of a coin flip 8-B .
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Too bad this wasn’t around in the 90’s. Team World would’ve had the likes of Sampras, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Rafter, Philippoussis, Rios, Kuerten. Meanwhile Team Europe would’ve had Edberg, Becker, Ivanisevic, Krajicek, Lendl, Muster, Herman, Kafelnikov, Moya, Stich.
Lendl would not have played for Team World any time after 1984. He was an American resident after 1980 and made it abundantly clear he did not consider himself Czech, but American. His great dream was to play on America's Davis Cup team, but that never happened.
 

prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
Too bad this wasn’t around in the 90’s. Team World would’ve had the likes of Sampras, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Rafter, Philippoussis, Rios, Kuerten. Meanwhile Team Europe would’ve had Edberg, Becker, Ivanisevic, Krajicek, Lendl, Muster, Herman, Kafelnikov, Moya, Stich. It would’ve been more evenly matched and exciting. Team World may not reach the level of Europe, but when Nadal, Federer and Djokovic are gone it will be more competitive. :D :D :D :D
 
I think Raonic should be called the favorite here. It is indoor hardcourt and Nadal has issues with his wrist.
Too bad this wasn’t around in the 90’s. Team World would’ve had the likes of Sampras, Agassi, Courier, Chang, Rafter, Philippoussis, Rios, Kuerten. Meanwhile Team Europe would’ve had Edberg, Becker, Ivanisevic, Krajicek, Lendl, Muster, Herman, Kafelnikov, Moya, Stich. It would’ve been more evenly matched and exciting. Team World may not reach the level of Europe, but when Nadal, Federer and Djokovic are gone it will be more competitive. :D :D :D :D

I read that as Herman Munster. :)
 

vive le beau jeu !

Talk Tennis Guru
can't wait for this pointless exo to vanish from the calendar... hopefully next year.

303pl1.gif
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
In this, the third year of the Laver Cup, a series of tennis matches over a period of 3 days, it’s clear that the premise which is “Team Europe” versus “Team World” is a bizarre concoction which doesn’t work. I have no argument with a tournament honouring Laver, and if anyone deserves to have a tournament in their honour, it’s the Rocket.

If tennis wishes to honour Laver, however, the tournament they’ve designed is deeply flawed. First, what is Team World? Isn’t Europe part of the world? And why Europe vs. the World? It seems like an arbitrary designation that makes little sense. Yet, when one delves deeper into the structure of this tournament, there is a definite logic at work here. If one would make an analogy to gambling, it would translate into this is a “stacked deck”. Team Europe has stacked the odds in favour of themselves from the very beginning. Even when Roger and Rafa retire, there are plenty of top ranked European players to take their places.

Going forward, it’s difficult to think that the Laver Cup won’t have both an image and deep-rooted problem with sustainability. A tournament cannot maintain its credibility when one side is stacked with talent, and the other side far less so. This translates into a high likelihood that Team Europe will win for the third consecutive time. It will be a miracle if they don’t. The prognosis is this; no tournament is viable if the same outcome is expected year after year. Audiences will diminish, and possibly sponsors as well. Players will be less likely to participate, and the event itself could peter out.

If Team Europe can’t lose then fans and sponsors alike will begin to question the tournament’s viability and sustainability. Currently, the tournament basically owes its lustre to the fact that two of the best players in the history of the game have committed themselves to play. Of course, the pay-off for both of them is extremely high. Each member of the winning team receives $250K.

There is definitely a fun, positive vibe to the Laver Cup. As a long-time tennis aficionado, I enjoy watching players form a team and engage in the spirit of camaraderie as they cheer each other on. Ultimately, the Laver Cup will rise and fall based on how the two teams perform over time. If Team Europe continues to dominate as it has the past three years, it may become increasingly less interesting to fans, sponsors and venue owners. When people lose interest and ticket sales go downhill, a tournament usually dies a slow death.

Perhaps Laver Cup could investigate other possibilities such as: NextGen v. Grand Slam and Masters Champions, or separate the tournament into days such as North America v. South America, Europe v. Asia, Australia v. Europe, etc. These kinds of variations would more likely keep people interested and engaged, and attract the players necessary to sustain the tournament over the years. Given that the tennis season is long, arduous and already physically challenging, the tournament is going to have to lure them to participate. The current format doesn’t work, and isn’t sustainable for the long-term.

"Team World vs Team Europe" artificial designations are idiotic and borderline offensive. Along with the phony cringey over-acting by Rafa.
Federer is the creator/owner/promoter of the Laver Cup. How many millions is Fed personally making off of this garbage?
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
can't wait for this pointless exo to vanish from the calendar... hopefully next year.

303pl1.gif

Some Bozo here went crazy on Friday when I said, "it's all scripted and it will go down to the wire, as it always does." The responses was, "gtfo!" Where's that wise sage today? Is there literally anyone alive who believes team world would be this close to winning in a non-scripted event?
 

prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
BF, I doubt it's scripted, but something just doesn't feel right to me in that Federer created this from the start. So, it's his premise. That's fine. But, it feels to me as if the premise he created is one that benefits him from the beginning. Now, inherently, there's nothing wrong with that. But, it doesn't sit right with me. I'm open to being wrong.
 

prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
"Team World vs Team Europe" artificial designations are idiotic and borderline offensive. Along with the phony cringey over-acting by Rafa.
Federer is the creator/owner/promoter of the Laver Cup. How many millions is Fed personally making off of this garbage?
The designations are a bit bizarre in my opinion, but why offensive?
 

rh310

Hall of Fame
BF, I doubt it's scripted, but something just doesn't feel right to me in that Federer created this from the start. So, it's his premise. That's fine. But, it feels to me as if the premise he created is one that benefits him from the beginning. Now, inherently, there's nothing wrong with that. But, it doesn't sit right with me. I'm open to being wrong.

No it's not scripted. Maybe Federer does benefit from it, in the same way the Jim Courier et all benefit from The Tennis Channel and Powershares QQQ. Who else is going to put so much tennis on TV?

I personally think the format is fine, although I agree with an earlier poster who said that McEnroe would have better results without the frat boys he seems to favor now. For team World, for example, where are the two upcoming Japanese and S Korean players?
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
The designations are a bit bizarre in my opinion, but why offensive?

It is so phony as to be borderline offensive. The horrible overacting. Especially with Rafa and Fed all tense with hands buried in their faces and then giggling and hugging.
Given the bogus bizarre random team designations, why are they so attached to the result?
 
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prairiegirl

Hall of Fame
Raul, that's an interesting question. l don't really know the answer. My own 2 cents is that everything about Roger and Rafa's involvement is just way over the top. They seem desperate to make this tournament relevant and I don't know why. Right now, the only reason people showed up is because it's an oddity. I think that very soon Borg and John's roles will be usurped by others. I doubt John will stay in if he's not getting any results. He's got a lot of other stuff going on, namely being a father of 6 kids, being a full-time commentator, etc. If John leaves, I wonder if Borg would stay in. That would leave it open for Roger to take over the entire tournament, and call all the shots.

I know that Borg loves doing the LC. He said in an interview that he waits for this all year. It seems to mean a lot to him that he's still relevant to the game. If they're going to keep this ridiculous format, I would suggest someone like Agassi as World Coach, or Annacone. I don't know who they'd give Europe to. Maybe they could bring a fresh perspective. Whatever John is doing, it isn't working.

In the end, I think Roger and Rafa are attached for two reasons. One: money. Two: relevance and legacy. They're desperate now to solidify themselves somehow because if Djokovic recovers well, he's going to gobble up a bunch of Slams and other titles, and leave them in the dust.
 

Bill W

Rookie
Why not just use a draft system or totally random system to choose teams? First determine all the players, then either 1) have each captain choose one player, then the other captain choose another. So if one chooses, Nadal, the other will most likely choose Fed, right? This should evenly distribute rankings, or maybe make selection decisions based on matchup success. Or 2) randomly pull players names out of a hat. You could still get a heavy favorite team, but at least it's random and not some arbitrary geography. Seems simple enough. The team dynamic will still exist and make it fun.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Not so bizarre. 'Team World' is just short for 'Team Rest of the World' or 'Team Everyone Else'. Format ok for now since there is so much talent from the European countries. Perhaps they'll need to change the format once the Big 3 retires
 
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Chopin

Legend
It just seemed like some guys having fun. Was it a little melodramatic? Certainly. However, I don't think the results are scripted. Raonic looked annoyed about losing to Zverev.

Besides, if the tennis was fake, we know Kyrgios would call it out. Ha!
 

Beacon Hill

Hall of Fame
Raul, that's an interesting question. l don't really know the answer. My own 2 cents is that everything about Roger and Rafa's involvement is just way over the top. They seem desperate to make this tournament relevant and I don't know why. Right now, the only reason people showed up is because it's an oddity. I think that very soon Borg and John's roles will be usurped by others. I doubt John will stay in if he's not getting any results. He's got a lot of other stuff going on, namely being a father of 6 kids, being a full-time commentator, etc. If John leaves, I wonder if Borg would stay in. That would leave it open for Roger to take over the entire tournament, and call all the shots.

I know that Borg loves doing the LC. He said in an interview that he waits for this all year. It seems to mean a lot to him that he's still relevant to the game. If they're going to keep this ridiculous format, I would suggest someone like Agassi as World Coach, or Annacone. I don't know who they'd give Europe to. Maybe they could bring a fresh perspective. Whatever John is doing, it isn't working.

In the end, I think Roger and Rafa are attached for two reasons. One: money. Two: relevance and legacy. They're desperate now to solidify themselves somehow because if Djokovic recovers well, he's going to gobble up a bunch of Slams and other titles, and leave them in the dust.
McEnroe is not a full time commentator and his kids are grown up.
 

tacou

G.O.A.T.
I personally think the format is fine, although I agree with an earlier poster who said that McEnroe would have better results without the frat boys he seems to favor now. For team World, for example, where are the two upcoming Japanese and S Korean players?
This is an interesting take because I think Team World's strength (and they are 0-3, of course) is their camaraderie, highlighted on court by Sock/Isner/Kyrgios' doubles success and off court by Nick's coaching and just how enthusiastically they all support one another.

Are Nishikori (who was injured, I think?) and Schwartzman better/more accomplished players than Taylor Fritz and Shapovalov? Undoubtedly.
But would cultural differences/language barriers prevent them from achieving the same level of chemistry? Again, maybe the improved talent is enough.

And to be clear, I think geographical team designations is a dumb idea..we already have Davis Cup. Laver Cup is about honoring the legacy of the sport, so like I mentioned above, I think it's better to pick two former players each year and honor them, allowing you to put more competitive teams together.
You could even keep a little semblance of nationalism, i.e. put 3/4 Americans on Team Agassi when Laver Cup is held in Los Angeles or something, but American No. 4 is on Team Kuerten because Guga was their favorite player as a kid, etc.

Also, apologies if anyone is offended by my take! I'm obviously not trying to say Americans/Japanese/Argentinean can't get along..
 

dunlop_fort_knox

Professional
maybe the tennis world can honor laver by inaugurating a new ATP 250 in Albania, in his name, where 6 russians and 4 italians will throw their matches and make their friends wealthy? Laver would be "honored" I am sure.
 

TheGhostOfAgassi

Talk Tennis Guru
They should rename the teams every year to "Team Ashe" "Team Llendl" etc. and celebrate different icons of the game every year, then put the teams together with that in mind
Aint gonna work. Sounds depressing.
Fedal is so much bigger than anything else.

In a few years maybe it will be team rafa vs team federer. THAT would bring some attention to it. They are the ones that bring in the emotions. Not Laver or anyone else. Look at team world, just a shadow of team Europe.
To have a draft system wouldnt work either. This tournament is for fun mostly.

If you have a court named after you, that should be enough of praise for a player that means nothing to most people and players on tour.
 

toby55555

Hall of Fame
Or just do like NA sports and fudge the lines: eg Memphis and New Orleans being western teams(NBA).

If Russia, for example, was considered “world” that would balance things wouldn’t it? NextGen of Shapo/Félix/Med/KK would be competitive with post big 3 team Europe wouldn’t you think?
Russia’s political masters might not take to kindly to that idea?
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
I know that Borg loves doing the LC. He said in an interview that he waits for this all year. It seems to mean a lot to him that he's still relevant to the game.

How sad that Laver Cup is a highlight of his year... :(
Borg the "coach" is such a potted plant out there. :laughing:
 
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bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
I'd like to see the event have captains - the top two players in the world after the US Open. And, they pick teams, like you pick in gym class - alternating picks. They'd pick a set team and alternates since it's unlikely all top players would play and there might be withdrawals.
 
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JJGUY

Hall of Fame
The fact that team Europe Roger Federer partially owns this "exhibition" event and has vast financial interests makes all the arguments irrelevant, I don't even want to waste any time on its format, participation or whatever hype the "selected" media like tennis.com etc put on its site, it's not a competitive sports event, it's an entertainment, end of the story!
 

yokied

Hall of Fame
3 forest-size problems for those looking through the trees:
1. melodrama. Nothing matters, not even this. Let's keep it vaguely real and measured.
2. Roger is still relevant on the tour and at majors.
3. Too much money.

Roger and Godsick must have worked out a sweet deal with Rolex, Mercedes and other long term Fed sponsors. It really is the ideal vehicle to ease Fed into retirement/semi-retirement, along with his cashflows (and staying relevant influencing the top 20 players). The problem with the plan, probably devised in 2014-15, is that he is still out there swinging in the ATP heavyweight division in 2019, plus Uniqlo decided to
write them an inexplicably stupid large cheque for nothing. So at launch, this tournament was somewhat surplus to requirements, but Roger's 2017 resurgence sure helped draw some attention to it in the launch year. Its vibe and purpose will become clearer later, probably much later at this point.
 
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