Does Murray have the ugliest game ever among ATGs?

Mainad

Bionic Poster
When his match started last week, I literally left indian wells to go back to my hotel and eat a sandwich. Walked right by his practice as well. Zero desire to watch him play tennis. Or hear from him in any capacity at all.
How brave of you but he says "Hi" to you as well.
 

am1899

Hall of Fame
Extremely debatable.
Agreed. Also…

Nadal has a textbook slice, overhead and he's the best volleyer of big 3. His movement is out of this world.

Note that he has two forehands. One where he finishes across his shoulder and another which he like to lasso i.e. reverse forehand. He uses open stance pretty much for his forehand.

So, what 'rest of his shots' are you referring to?
The grip Nadal uses for BH slice is a lot closer to eastern forehand than it is continental, causing the racquet face to be extremely open during the swing. It works for him, and it’s obviously effective. But nothing in the realm of “textbook.”
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Murray is one of the dozen greatest players of the open era, so I'd call that an ATG.
@bjsnider Not a snarky question but a legit one:

Your thesis: Andy Murray is among the 12 greatest players of the OE when he has three major titles.

One would assume most tennis historians would list the men listed below as so far ahead of Murray it would be laughable, and I'm omitting Emerson who won 12 slams. I'm also omitting Tilden and Perry, since all are pre-OE. Hell, I'm even ignoring Rosewall since a portion of his 8 slams were won pre-OE. I'll restrict my list to all OE players:

Djokovic/Fed/Nadal: 60 slams total between them
Pete: 14 slams
Borg/Laver both 11 majors
Connors/Agassi/Lendl : each won 8 slams
Wilander: 7 slams
Becker, Edberg/Newcombe: each won 6 slams (Newcombe won more in non-OE).

Adding this up, we have 13 guys with more than DOUBLE the slams Muzz has. I'm not even mentioning players with 4 slams like Courier or Vilas (who won twice as many titles as Murray in addition).

But Murray's an ATG? Care to justify that he's one of the 12 greatest in the OE? Who do we toss out of the list above to slam Murray into ATG status with 3 major titles? Again, not being b-tchy, I just have no clue how anyone justifies such an assertion.
 

goldengate14

Professional
@bjsnider Not a snarky question but a legit one:

Your thesis: Andy Murray is among the 12 greatest players of the OE when he has three major titles.

One would assume most tennis historians would list the men listed below as so far ahead of Murray it would be laughable, and I'm omitting Emerson who won 12 slams. I'm also omitting Tilden and Perry, since all are pre-OE. Hell, I'm even ignoring Rosewall since a portion of his 8 slams were won pre-OE. I'll restrict my list to all OE players:

Djokovic/Fed/Nadal: 60 slams total between them
Pete: 14 slams
Borg/Laver both 11 majors
Connors/Agassi/Lendl : each won 8 slams
Wilander: 7 slams
Becker, Edberg/Newcombe: each won 6 slams (Newcombe won more in non-OE).

Adding this up, we have 13 guys with more than DOUBLE the slams Muzz has. I'm not even mentioning players with 4 slams like Courier or Vilas (who won twice as many titles as Murray in addition).

But Murray's an ATG? Care to justify that he's one of the 12 greatest in the OE? Who do we toss out of the list above to slam Murray into ATG status with 3 major titles? Again, not being b-tchy, I just have no clue how anyone justifies such an assertion.
You missed Mcenroe so that is 14.
However Murray is an ATG. As his Hewitt and Wawrinka and Kuerten. And Rafter and Stich. And Delpo. None were fluke winners like Kraijeck Gomes Johannson and Thiem and probably Mededev
 

nachiket nolefam

Hall of Fame
I think the way he chose to play at times was ugly - the times where he just baseline botted instead of using all his tools, but I don't find his strokes ugly.
Murray is much more muscular than average ATP player. He is also one of the pushy players who counterpunched his whole life. Maybe few matches here and there he was attacking. That's not enough over his entire career.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
The fact that Murray's name was even mentioned along side Lendl and Wilander is insulting.
Neither of them won the premier Slam, Wimbledon (Lendl had to coach Murray to do it, Wilander never even made a final). Wilander never even won the YEC. So who feels insulted?
 

ghostofMecir

Hall of Fame
Nadal has a textbook slice, overhead and he's the best volleyer of big 3. His movement is out of this world.

Note that he has two forehands. One where he finishes across his shoulder and another which he like to lasso i.e. reverse forehand. He uses open stance pretty much for his forehand.

So, what 'rest of his shots' are you referring to?
lol no he’s not
 

nachiket nolefam

Hall of Fame
Neither of them won the premier Slam, Wimbledon (Lendl had to coach Murray to do it, Wilander never even made a final). Wilander never even won the YEC. So who feels insulted?
Lendl has 8 slams total. 5 more than Murray. He is number one 5 more years than Murray.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Def not, just the hardest to watch. All that agonizing is such a turn off. If I wanna watch someone look like they hate what they do that much I'll go to Subway 8-B
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Def not, just the hardest to watch. All that agonizing is such a turn off. If I wanna watch someone look like they hate what they do that much I'll go to Subway 8-B
Yep, he hates tennis so much he's risking his metallic hip just to try and stay competitive in it! :cool:
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
Yep, he hates tennis so much he's risking his metallic hip just to try and stay competitive in it! :cool:
I always thought he hated tennis and was just doing it so mummy would give him some GBP (Good Boy Points), but bionic hip murray must have found a little love for the game afterall.
 

tex123

Professional
lol no he’s not
He is. His success rate is unmatched. John Mcenroe says so https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...l-is-the-best-volleyer-in-the-top-100.504363/

Petchey presented the stats on tv and he showed that Nadal is the most successful volleyer of his generation. There was a thread about that too.

It's not a traditional volley but more like " set up, is that good enough?, yes, come to the net". Traditionally, players just went to the net regardless of the quality of previous shot. His superior movement allowed him to do so.
 

Olli Jokinen

Semi-Pro
@bjsnider Not a snarky question but a legit one:

Your thesis: Andy Murray is among the 12 greatest players of the OE when he has three major titles.

One would assume most tennis historians would list the men listed below as so far ahead of Murray it would be laughable, and I'm omitting Emerson who won 12 slams. I'm also omitting Tilden and Perry, since all are pre-OE. Hell, I'm even ignoring Rosewall since a portion of his 8 slams were won pre-OE. I'll restrict my list to all OE players:

Djokovic/Fed/Nadal: 60 slams total between them
Pete: 14 slams
Borg/Laver both 11 majors
Connors/Agassi/Lendl : each won 8 slams
Wilander: 7 slams
Becker, Edberg/Newcombe: each won 6 slams (Newcombe won more in non-OE).

Adding this up, we have 13 guys with more than DOUBLE the slams Muzz has. I'm not even mentioning players with 4 slams like Courier or Vilas (who won twice as many titles as Murray in addition).

But Murray's an ATG? Care to justify that he's one of the 12 greatest in the OE? Who do we toss out of the list above to slam Murray into ATG status with 3 major titles? Again, not being b-tchy, I just have no clue how anyone justifies such an assertion.
Forgot McEnroe.
 

TheFifthSet

Legend
You know, in just about every other sport being a Top 40ish player of all time will net you the label of all-time great. Curious that this doesn’t tend to be so in tennis. Probably a function of the lack of parity at the top.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Do you think Hewitt would have at least one more major if not for all the health issues?
Probably not with Fed around, I think he has a good shot at the YEC in 2005 with Fed injured and an ok shot at the AO in 2006 with Fed not at his best. IMO he makes the odd slam final and lots of slam SF's for a few more years, maybe grabs a couple of masters etc...I think if he had his 04-05 slam consistency in 01-02 there's a good chance he wins a couple more slams in those years.
 

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
@bjsnider Not a snarky question but a legit one:

Your thesis: Andy Murray is among the 12 greatest players of the OE when he has three major titles.

One would assume most tennis historians would list the men listed below as so far ahead of Murray it would be laughable, and I'm omitting Emerson who won 12 slams. I'm also omitting Tilden and Perry, since all are pre-OE. Hell, I'm even ignoring Rosewall since a portion of his 8 slams were won pre-OE. I'll restrict my list to all OE players:

Djokovic/Fed/Nadal: 60 slams total between them
Pete: 14 slams
Borg/Laver both 11 majors
Connors/Agassi/Lendl : each won 8 slams
Wilander: 7 slams
Becker, Edberg/Newcombe: each won 6 slams (Newcombe won more in non-OE).

Adding this up, we have 13 guys with more than DOUBLE the slams Muzz has. I'm not even mentioning players with 4 slams like Courier or Vilas (who won twice as many titles as Murray in addition).

But Murray's an ATG? Care to justify that he's one of the 12 greatest in the OE? Who do we toss out of the list above to slam Murray into ATG status with 3 major titles? Again, not being b-tchy, I just have no clue how anyone justifies such an assertion.
I am also using total number of slam finals, titles, etc. and certainly total time spent as world number one. You are only using one criteria, which is a curious choice for someone who spent so much time composing that post.
 

RS

G.O.A.T.
Probably not with Fed around, I think he has a good shot at the YEC in 2005 with Fed injured and an ok shot at the AO in 2006 with Fed not at his best. IMO he makes the odd slam final and lots of slam SF's for a few more years, maybe grabs a couple of masters etc...I think if he had his 04-05 slam consistency in 01-02 there's a good chance he wins a couple more slams in those years.
It actually thinking that maybe Hewitt played at his AO 05 SF/F level maybe he could upest AO 06 Fed.
 

bjsnider

Hall of Fame
This is how Bodo sized up an ATG in Courts of Babylon, speaking of Lendl:

Ultimately, Lendl would win eight Grand Slam titles, one more than his lifelong tormentor, John McEnroe, and the same number as his other major rival, Jimmy Connors. He would contest nineteen Grand Slam finals, appearing in the championship match in at least one of the Big Four tournaments for a solid decade beginning in 1981. Lendl led Czechoslovakia to a Davis Cup victory in 1980...
Lendl was ranked in the top ten for 13 consecutive years, a streak surpassed only by Connors (16 successive years). He won 94 sanctioned titles in his career, 17 more than McEnroe but 15 fewer than Connors. Between 1985 and 1988, Lendl held the world’s number one ranking for 157 consecutive weeks, second only to Connors’s 160-week run. But Lendl has spent the most total weeks in the number one position (270 weeks—2 weeks longer than Connors). Thus, he has a legitimate claim to being the top player of the Open era.


Judge Murray on that basis rather than merely how many slams he won.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Oh I knew you were gonna defend :p But he's the biggest buzzkill in all sports to watch. I literally don't know how you do it.
I always thought he hated tennis and was just doing it so mummy would give him some GBP (Good Boy Points), but bionic hip murray must have found a little love for the game afterall.
Forget how he appears on court, he loves playing. Fretted like mad when his injuries kept him off the tour. Just wanted to get back as soon as possible.
 

toth

Professional
Nadal has a textbook slice, overhead and he's the best volleyer of big 3. His movement is out of this world.

Note that he has two forehands. One where he finishes across his shoulder and another which he like to lasso i.e. reverse forehand. He uses open stance pretty much for his forehand.

So, what 'rest of his shots' are you referring to?
I just think Federer is the best volleyer.
Nevertheless, he is the only ATG nowadays who like approach the net.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Forget how he appears on court, he loves playing. Fretted like mad when his injuries kept him off the tour. Just wanted to get back as soon as possible.
Murray is someone who loves to compete rather than loves to win.
 
Top