Does Nadal need to win another non-French Open Grand Slam?

Clarky21 said:
At least Nadal had to beat the best hardcourt player in the world, and a proven slam champion to get his career slam. Who did Fed have to beat? Slam final virgin and world renowned pigeon Soderling. I'd say Nadal earned his USO far more than Fed earned his RG.
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djoker wasn't anywhere close to the best hardcourt player in the world at the time around USO in 2010 ...

federer, murray and nadal all played better HC tennis than him in 2010 ...
 
Obviously not. He has won an exorbitant amount outside his preferred surface. If you have watched him from 2005 you saw him develop what I would consider one of the top 3 forehands of all time which allowed him to end points with a swing of the racquet and therefore win on any surface. He definitely deserves to be considered an all-surface player although I think he accomplished this at the expense of his knees.
 
Towser83 said:
Generally yes, though Soderling has had some standout performances and Djokovic some stinkers. Though I wouldn't say that of either performance in question. Just saying I don't understand the criterion for Djokovic being the toughEST opponent. Tougher, most of the time of course.

Not that I consider one title more deserved than the other, they both worked hard for what they won career wise.
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The problem was that Söderling, in his 2009 final, was very much "the player who's happy to be there". First slam final, unexpected,... He was a complete rookie at that stage of the game and it showed. It was a huge match, with tons of expectations (if Federer wins it, he'll be considered greater than Sampras). Söderling had done the job in that tournament, he could be "the spectator" in that final.

Djokovic, on the other hand,... Fortunately for him, Nadal was at his best in that USO final. Otherwise... Djokovic knew what it is to play a slam final and to win one. He couldn't do it that year, but he was certainly not a rookie happy to be there.

Seriously, would you have prefered to see Federer face Djokovic in that 2009 FO final? If someone says yes, I will tell them "bad faith".
 
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reversef said:
The problem was that Söderling, in his 2009 final, was very much "the player who's happy to be there". First slam final, unexpected,... He was a complete rookie at that stage of the game and it showed. It was a huge match, with tons of expectations (if Federer wins it, he'll be considered greater than Sampras). Söderling had done the job in that tournament, he could be "the spectator" in that final.

Djokovic, on the other hand,... Fortunately for him, Nadal was at his best in that USO final. Otherwise... Djokovic knew what it is to play a slam final and to win one. He couldn't do it that year, but he was certainly not a rookie happy to be there.

Seriously, would you have prefered to see Federer face Djokovic in that 2009 FO final? If someone says yes, I will tell them "bad faith".
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It is bad Faith to think that Djokovic, who was beaten by clay great Kohlschreiber in the 3rd, would have given any difficulties to Federer. They were in the same half of the draw by the way. Meanwhile, Söderling defeated Ferrer, Nadal, Davydenko and Gonzales to reach the final. All of them have good credentials on clay.
 
I think of Nadal as an all court player. He has four non clay slams, and the career slam. He has OG on hard, several Masters titles on hard. Plus, several finals at all hard court events apart from Cincy, so yes he is an all courter.

Hands down undisputed clay courter? I don't think so. He is tha massive legend on clay, and a legend in the world of tennis in general, and I am happy with that.
 
Towser83 said:
Generally yes, though Soderling has had some standout performances and Djokovic some stinkers. Though I wouldn't say that of either performance in question. Just saying I don't understand the criterion for Djokovic being the toughEST opponent. Tougher, most of the time of course.

Not that I consider one title more deserved than the other, they both worked hard for what they won career wise.
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Well, tougher for sure. Toughest most likely, for Rafa anyway.

No title is more "deserved", but it is more... let's say meaningful if you played an actually great player in the final. For example, Nadal's 2008 Wimbledon is worth more than his 2010 title for that very reason, and you can see he himself considers it that way.

TMF said:
Soderling in 2009 FO was far better than Nole in 2010 USO. Not to mention Haas and Del Potro was playing well above their standard against Roger.
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No, no way. he was a first time slam finalist (and he's never do more than reach another final). It's no contest.

merlinpinpin said:
Funny "logic" here. Söderling spanked Nadal at RG 2009, so Söderling wasn't the toughest opponent?
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Of course he wasn't. Just like Berdych wasn't in Wimbledon 2010, despite beating Federer.
 
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The Rosol loss just shows how tough Nadal is at his best and when fully fit (he clearly was not that day) at the French Open 2011 1st round he was 2 sets to 1 down against John Isner the massive serving American, but somehow still found a way to win, that is the only time Rafa has been taken to 5 at the French Open I am sure many players on tour are happy to see that Isner has been ruled out of the French Open this year!
 
reversef said:
Seriously, would you have prefered to see Federer face Djokovic in that 2009 FO final? If someone says yes, I will tell them "bad faith".
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The Djokovic that lost in straight sets to Kohlschreiber in the third round? Of course I'd rather Fed face that guy than the one who took out Nadal, Ferrer, Davydenko, and Gonzalez to reach the final.
 
reversef said:
The problem was that Söderling, in his 2009 final, was very much "the player who's happy to be there". First slam final, unexpected,... He was a complete rookie at that stage of the game and it showed. It was a huge match, with tons of expectations (if Federer wins it, he'll be considered greater than Sampras). Söderling had done the job in that tournament, he could be "the spectator" in that final.

Djokovic, on the other hand,... Fortunately for him, Nadal was at his best in that USO final. Otherwise... Djokovic knew what it is to play a slam final and to win one. He couldn't do it that year, but he was certainly not a rookie happy to be there.

Seriously, would you have prefered to see Federer face Djokovic in that 2009 FO final? If someone says yes, I will tell them "bad faith".
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yeah, only you forgot the some tiny details there :

federer faced delpo in the semis in RG 2009 and delpo in RG 2009 SF was much better than djoker in USO 2010 final ....

djoker's form was lacklusture in 2010 and the USO semi was his first top 10 win in that year ( thanks to federer playing a crappy match out of nowhere ) ; djoker was just happy/relieved to be in a slam final ( his first since AO 2008 ! )

federer in the form he was in the finals in RG 2009 would have ripped apart djoker if he somehow had scrapped by kohlscreiber .... I mean he played a perfect first set, a perfect breaker in the 2nd set ( 4 consecutive unreturnables ! ) and very well in the 3rd set ( until the end where he got a bit nervous )

finally not to forget , federer did actually defeat djoker in RG 2011 and that was when djoker was playing quite a bit better than he was in 2009 on clay ...
 
Crisstti said:
No, no way. he was a first time slam finalist (and he's never do more than reach another final). It's no contest.
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One time finalist doesn't equate lower quality. Soderling was better than the preceding year which he also made the FO final. And many people including yourself admitted that 2010 Nole was nowhere near as he was in 2011.
 
ark_28 said:
The Rosol loss just shows how tough Nadal is at his best and when fully fit (he clearly was not that day) at the French Open 2011 1st round he was 2 sets to 1 down against John Isner the massive serving American, but somehow still found a way to win, that is the only time Rafa has been taken to 5 at the French Open I am sure many players on tour are happy to see that Isner has been ruled out of the French Open this year!
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Ruled out of the French Open??? Did I miss something?
 
Crisstti said:
Well, tougher for sure. Toughest most likely, for Rafa anyway.

No title is more "deserved", but it is more... let's say meaningful if you played an actually great player in the final. For example, Nadal's 2008 Wimbledon is worth more than his 2010 title for that very reason, and you can see he himself considers it that way..
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I agree it's more special to beat a better player in the final. But I don't look at Federer's win at RG 2009 to be just about beating Soderling. He had a great match with Del Potro who played some great tennis and wasn't an easy opponent, but maybe more than that I look at all the clay finals Federer made over the years (not just RG either) and semi in 2005, knowing that he was going to be up against someone that was almost impossible to beat. He didn't walk away and give up though and carried on believing that one day Nadal would not win RG and he had to make the most of that. It would be easy to give up, to decide you didn't want to take 12 losses to win 2 matches vs Nadal, and maybe get RG. Then the pressure in 2009 when Nadal went out and he knew it might be the only chance he would ever get. RG 2009 is for me about Federer bouncing back from every loss he had vs Nadal and still trying.

Same way I have respect for Nadal for keeping on at Djokovic even when he lost 7 matches in a row. Imagine he got beaten at the US Open by Djokovic in 2010 and then in 2011, last year too and got beaten this year as well. Then next year he beats Del Potro in the semis and then beat Ferrer in the final for his career slam. maybe not the best win in terms of final opponent but you'd have to give him credit for never giving up.
 
Towser83 said:
No he doesn't NEED to win anything more, he's already an alltime great even if he doesn't play another point. At this point of course he will be considered mainly a clay court great but he was good enough to win every slam as well, so as an a grass and hardcourt player he is not that high up the list but as an overall champion he is very near the top.
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Not that high up the list?? On grass he's 9th overall in the open era and 3rd of the current players behind only Federer and Murray. (He had been 2nd for a number of years until his stats took a hit with his .500 last year)

1. Roger Federer .873
2. John McEnroe .856
3. Bjorn Borg .847
4. Pete Sampras .835
5. Jimmy Connors .833
6. Rod Laver .833
7. Boris Becker .823
8. Andy Murray .813
9. Rafael Nadal .806
10. Andy Roddick .796
11. Stefan Edberg .786
12. Ken Rosewall .783
13. Michael Stich .782
14. John Newcombe .780
15. Lleyton Hewitt .771

On hardcourt he's 13th best of all time and behind only Fed, Novak and Andy of the current players.

1. Roger Federer .830
2. Ivan Lendl .826
3. Jimmy Connors .825
4. Rod Laver .813
5. John McEnroe .811
6. Novak Djokovic .809
7. Pete Sampras .804
8. Andre Agassi .790
9. Stefan Edberg .786
10. Andy Murray .778
11. Boris Becker .774
12. Bjorn Borg .767
13. Rafael Nadal .765
14. Andy Roddick .755
15. Arthur Ashe .750

On clay, he's far and away the best.

1. Rafael Nadal .930
2. Bjorn Borg .863
3. Ivan Lendl .814
4. Guillermo Vilas .796
5. Ken Rosewall .793

Overall, he's tied with Bjorn Borg for best career winning percentage.

1. Bjorn Borg .827
2. Rafael Nadal .827
3. Jimmy Connors .818
4. Ivan Lendl .818
5. Roger Federer .816
6. John McEnroe .815
7. Rod Laver .793
8. Novak Djokovic .792
9. Pete Sampras .774
10. Boris Becker .769

So no, Rafa doesn't NEED to win anything more and he already is an all time great, on ALL the surfaces.
 
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