Does Nadal psyche himself out too much against big servers?

Rafa24

Rafa24

Hall of Fame
He plays way too nervous and tight unless he gets a break. That entire muller match other than when he got the breaks in the 3rd and 4th set he was so on edge and nervous. I think he lost that match mentally. He should have never been broken by Muller. But its the same thing everytime he plays big servers. But who am I to question him he has 15 majors in his pocket and millions of dollars.
 
Nadal is human being,not an alien from out space.It's natural to to feel nervous when under pressure at big events. I don't think there is a player on the earth can absolutely feel comfortable in a long game at Wimby. Maybe the minor difference is that Muller had nothing to lose in that match while Nadal didn't.
 
Rafa24 said:
He plays way too nervous and tight unless he gets a break. That entire muller match other than when he got the breaks in the 3rd and 4th set he was so on edge and nervous. I think he lost that match mentally. He should have never been broken by Muller. But its the same thing everytime he plays big servers. But who am I to question him he has 15 majors in his pocket and millions of dollars.
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I think we have Novak to thank for this. Nadal's nerve was almost flawless until Novak started beating him up in 2011. Or it could be the losses to Rosol, Darcis etc. I know what you mean. In tight situations now he has that wild eyed desperate look about him. And then when it goes wrong, he gets more down on himself than his younger days. Look back at the 5th set of Nadal Coria in Rome (one of the greatest 5th sets of all time) to see how younger Nadal handled being under the cosh.
 
BringBackWood said:
I think we have Novak to thank for this. Nadal's nerve was almost flawless until Novak started beating him up in 2011. Or it could be the losses to Rosol, Darcis etc. I know what you mean. In tight situations now he has that wild eyed desperate look about him. And then when it goes wrong, he gets more down on himself than his younger days. Look back at the 5th set of Nadal Coria in Rome (one of the greatest 5th sets of all time) to see how younger Nadal handled being under the cosh.
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Nope. The reason has been Rafa's own health.
 
BringBackWood said:
I think we have Novak to thank for this. Nadal's nerve was almost flawless until Novak started beating him up in 2011. Or it could be the losses to Rosol, Darcis etc. I know what you mean. In tight situations now he has that wild eyed desperate look about him. And then when it goes wrong, he gets more down on himself than his younger days. Look back at the 5th set of Nadal Coria in Rome (one of the greatest 5th sets of all time) to see how younger Nadal handled being under the cosh.
Click to expand...
I've said the same thing about Nadal when he was younger he had no fear and nerves of steel. Since Novak got in his head like you said it's changed him. He was up a break in the 5th of 2012 AO final against him and missed an easy shot to go up 40-15. I think he was up 4-2 at that point. Then he lost it. Choked up a break in the 5th last year at USO against Pouilles which is a shame because I think he would have got thru Djoker fairly easily. Up a break on Fed in the 5th this year at AO against Fed and lost. And this year 2 out of 16 break points against Muller. A lot of those in the 5th were basically match points as I am sure he would have closed it out. Fognini a couple years ago at USO? Up 2 sets to none and he had never lost a a slam match up 2-0.

I'd like to see his record in 5 set matches from age 19-25 and then 26-31.
 
BringBackWood said:
I don't respect your posts because you are a troll. On a tennis forum one sure sign of a troll is a poster who is unable to criticise their favourite player - you have consistently shown yourself to fill that category with distinction.
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You revealed that you are a Fedfan & a Rafa hater already a long time ago. There is no reason to respect anything that comes from you. :D
 
That's what I was talking about. Every time Nadal plays a fifth set now I expect him to lose it, even when he is a break up. Every time when he plays a tie break I expect him to lose it. Every time when he has an important BP I expect him to choke. His mentality is terrible in the last few years. People do not realize that only because most players in the top-15 right now are mugs-Berdych, Cilic, Nishikori, Raonic, Goffin, Thiem, Dimitrov, Tsonga. Of course compared to them Nadal's mentality looks much better than it really is. But just compared to them.
 
"Most players in the top-15 right now are mugs--Berdych, Cilic, Nishikori, Raonic..." ? All Slam finalists and one a Slam champion. There must be some truly great tennis players among the posters here then...

I do agree that some of these players need to step it up to challenge the best and also the likes of Dimitrov. It's likely too late for some of them, like Berdych and Tsonga. They just never had what was required, though they're good players. Thiem might do something yet.

Nadal has a weakness on grass against big athletic players who can serve well, imo. The best serve and volleyers in the old days who would have kept him under pressure with their games and covered the net coming in would have given him hell.
 
BringBackWood said:
I think we have Novak to thank for this. Nadal's nerve was almost flawless until Novak started beating him up in 2011. Or it could be the losses to Rosol, Darcis etc. I know what you mean. In tight situations now he has that wild eyed desperate look about him. And then when it goes wrong, he gets more down on himself than his younger days. Look back at the 5th set of Nadal Coria in Rome (one of the greatest 5th sets of all time) to see how younger Nadal handled being under the cosh.
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You may be right about Djok, but Djok was able to expose Nadal--tactically, on the court like no other player had before (by being able to handle the wide ISO CC FFs that went to Djok's BH, and rip them back).
So it wasn't a purely mental issue. Once Djok cracked that invincibility, a few others could use similar tactics. Nadal's confidence started dropping.
It all makes sense.
And it happened to Fed too--with Nadal doing it to Fed as Djok later did it to Nadal.
 
Rafa24 said:
I've said the same thing about Nadal when he was younger he had no fear and nerves of steel. Since Novak got in his head like you said it's changed him. He was up a break in the 5th of 2012 AO final against him and missed an easy shot to go up 40-15. I think he was up 4-2 at that point. Then he lost it. Choked up a break in the 5th last year at USO against Pouilles which is a shame because I think he would have got thru Djoker fairly easily. Up a break on Fed in the 5th this year at AO against Fed and lost. And this year 2 out of 16 break points against Muller. A lot of those in the 5th were basically match points as I am sure he would have closed it out. Fognini a couple years ago at USO? Up 2 sets to none and he had never lost a a slam match up 2-0.

I'd like to see his record in 5 set matches from age 19-25 and then 26-31.
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I said in another thread that part of his five set mental fragility is loss of physical edge

Used to be even if a match went five, Nadal usually steamrolled in the fifth because his opponents were worn dorn physically and mentally


Now that he is aged, he is tired himself by the fifth which leads to loss of confidence because of not having the physical edge which leads to more fragility mentally.
 
Rafa24 said:
He plays way too nervous and tight unless he gets a break. That entire muller match other than when he got the breaks in the 3rd and 4th set he was so on edge and nervous. I think he lost that match mentally. He should have never been broken by Muller. But its the same thing everytime he plays big servers. But who am I to question him he has 15 majors in his pocket and millions of dollars.
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That Mueller match was very frustrating, Nadal actually won way more points (not a few more) and led in every stat but one BP conversions, he was awful 2 of 16! (I think, it may of been 3, but it was dismal, the % was 13%)
To me that was the story of the match. Mueller didn't serve up aces on all those Bps either, Rafa shanked some easy 2nd serves.

I'm not sure it's about nervous. It's just that against big servers in the zone on a fast service (Fed is relevant here) Nadal cannot afford to squander opportunities. He has to be ultra clutch. I think he lost the Ao to Fed for the same reason.
 
smash hit said:
Not sure what you mean here. They have met off clay a total of 14 times since 2008 and the h2h for those fourteen matches is 7-7
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But you are sure what 2004-2008 means for Fed. If they met 14 times off clay within that period,the h2h would not be 7:7.
 
octobrina10 said:
When playing on grass, Rafa is worrying about his knees (how his knees are going to hold up), not about 'servers'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2017/06/12/rafael-nadal-worrying-fitness-wimbledon/
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FrailHeartyAustraliansilkyterrier.gif
 
smash hit said:
Not sure what you mean here. They have met off clay a total of 14 times since 2008 and the h2h for those fourteen matches is 7-7
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Yeah, including 4 matches in that terrible 13-early 14 period for injured racket issues Fed. Also only 1 match in late 14 - whole of 15 where Rafa was in bad shape and Fed resurgent.

Most of Rafa's wins off clay came once Fed was past his best. If they played during Fed's peak at places like Canada, Cincy, Madrid Indoors, USO etc I imagine most matches would have looked like this:


This is what peak Fed vs Rafa actually looks like on a medium-fast or better court. A court with such a speed where Rafa can't tap back winners to the baseline with any sort of regularity.
 
Well this thread has unsurprisingly gone off the rails.

I have to agree with OP, though I can't think off the top of my head of him vs. other big servers in recent years. But the Mueller match, almost every single point you could sense tension from Nadal, like he was constantly thinking about how hard it was to break, even when he was serving.

I'm not trying to be overly critical. He is my favorite player, having a great season, and lost an epic match on a grass to a big lefty server having the greatest season of his career.

But still, OP hit the nail on the head, how the heck does Mueller break Nadal in a match like this?? The bull of olden days would drag him side to side until he fell over, regardless of surface, and he's obviously still capable of doing that on his better days.
 
I agree with this, the Rafa of old would rarely lose a match in 5 sets to mugs like Pouille, Verdasco, Fognini and Mueller. I think it's a bit of a physical issue too since he himself gets pretty tired if it reaches till 5th
 
Rafa24 said:
I've said the same thing about Nadal when he was younger he had no fear and nerves of steel. Since Novak got in his head like you said it's changed him. He was up a break in the 5th of 2012 AO final against him and missed an easy shot to go up 40-15. I think he was up 4-2 at that point. Then he lost it. Choked up a break in the 5th last year at USO against Pouilles which is a shame because I think he would have got thru Djoker fairly easily. Up a break on Fed in the 5th this year at AO against Fed and lost. And this year 2 out of 16 break points against Muller. A lot of those in the 5th were basically match points as I am sure he would have closed it out. Fognini a couple years ago at USO? Up 2 sets to none and he had never lost a a slam match up 2-0.

I'd like to see his record in 5 set matches from age 19-25 and then 26-31.
Click to expand...
Yup tons of missed opportunities. Only place I disagree with you is that Nadal would have beaten Djokovic easily at USO last year

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
aman92 said:
I agree with this, the Rafa of old would rarely lose a match in 5 sets to mugs like Pouille, Verdasco, Fognini and Mueller. I think it's a bit of a physical issue too since he himself gets pretty tired if it reaches till 5th
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It has always been a physical issue.
 
sbengte said:
But I thought his knees were 100% healed with PRP 3-4 years ago and he's never complained of knee problems again.
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He hasn't complained of knee pain since he underwent stem cell treatment at the end of 2013, but he has been cautious after having severe knee pain.
 
TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Lol. Its like gossip magazines do twisting meanings like that you do. Cmon.
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Here are his words:
"If I reach the final, I'd like to face a different opponent than Federer."
"I don't like to face best players in the final and I think I played against Roger already enough times this year."

Not sure what meaning I twisted. It was you who claimed he was joking, which is impossible to understand, at least inn written form.
 
BringBackWood said:
I don't respect your posts because you are a troll. On a tennis forum one sure sign of a troll is a poster who is unable to criticise their favourite player - you have consistently shown yourself to fill that category with distinction.
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Absolutely right, and Nadal is one of my two favorite players, so her posts don't annoy me because I'm not a fan of his tennis. I just hate the BS...
 
tacou said:
But still, OP hit the nail on the head, how the heck does Mueller break Nadal in a match like this?? The bull of olden days would drag him side to side until he fell over, regardless of surface, and he's obviously still capable of doing that on his better days.
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Bottom line:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/return-games-won/all/hard/all/

Nadal at 29%, tied with 6 other players.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/return-games-won/all/clay/all/

Nadal at 43%, all by himself at #1

That 14% difference is the answer, combined with a defensive returning position.

Even in 2013:

30%

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/stats/return-games-won/2013/hard/all/

Under Ferrer that year, one of his best.
 
octobrina10 said:
He hasn't complained of knee pain since he underwent stem cell treatment at the end of 2013, but he has been cautious after having severe knee pain.
Click to expand...


Kind of like during IW 2012 where he said the knees were completely healed and he felt great

And then he lost to Fed I'm the final and suddenly the knees were an issue


Meanwhile he played singles and doubles in Miami where his knees were healed but injured

And then he lost to Rosol at Wimbledon after winning the FO and his knees were wrecked

Lmaooooooooooo
 
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