Does Sampras believe that the surface speed hasn't changed at all since 2002?

sunny_cali

Semi-Pro
They definitely have better first serves.

Look...we are talking strictly serves here. do isner/karlovic/raonic have the rest of the game pete has? NO. Does their height effect their mobility? yes BUT their one shot, the serve is better than petes. I don't see how anyone can argue that.

You changed your claim from - they have better 1st/2nd serves to just 1st serves. So, which is it ? IMHO, their 1st serves are comparable, there is'nt a whole lot of difference -- additionally Pete was more clutch with both serves.
 
The great thing about Sampras' serve was that he was able to call upon it when he needed it. However, I still feel that Karlovic and Isner have better serves. They are serves and nothing else for the most part. Sampras has a great forehand, great volleys, and great movement. The others, not so much. Saying their serves don't count because they are tall is sort of like saying an NBA team only won the Finals because they had the best player in the league.
 

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
Isner's serve is light years ahead of sampras..you clown. Sampras's serve is not even in the same league

you cant make up for a 2 foot(height + limb length) reach advantage no matter how good you are.

pete clowns have the remarkable ability to ignore facts; you're wasting your time with them. According to those idiots, Pete had:
- the best serve of all time,
- comparable BH as Federer (some even argue that Pete had a better BH than Federer, because Sampras wouldn't have trouble with Nadal's FH to his BH),
- GOAT volleys,
- GOAT-level FH,
- GOAT-level movement on court,
- greatest overhead of all time (this annoys me more than anything else)
- best all court player of all time

It is only due to fellow GOATs like Delgado, Schaller, Yzaga that Sampras has a 14-slam career instead of a 20-slam career.
 

fed_rulz

Hall of Fame
You changed your claim from - they have better 1st/2nd serves to just 1st serves. So, which is it ? IMHO, their 1st serves are comparable, there is'nt a whole lot of difference -- additionally Pete was more clutch with both serves.

no they are not. Isner, Karlovic and Goran had 1st serves in a different league. Now, 2nd serves, that's more comparable. Pete was leagues ahead of these guys when it comes to clutch serving.
 

helloworld

Hall of Fame
Isner's serve is light years ahead of sampras..you clown. Sampras's serve is not even in the same league

you cant make up for a 2 foot(height + limb length) reach advantage no matter how good you are.

Isner serve is better than Sampras??? How??? Show me one statistics which proves that Isner has better serve than Pete Sampras.
Just because Isner is tall does not mean he has better serve than Sampras. Del Potro is also very tall, but his serve is not even in the league of Sampras.
Just ask prime Mardy Fish, the top 10 player of this era about how it feels to get beaten by 40 year-old man 15 years past his prime. :lol:
 

sonicare

Hall of Fame
Isner serve is better than Sampras??? How??? Show me one statistics which proves that Isner has better serve than Pete Sampras.
Just because Isner is tall does not mean he has better serve than Sampras. Del Potro is also very tall, but his serve is not even in the league of Sampras.
Just ask prime Mardy Fish, the top 10 player of this era about how it feels to get beaten by 40 year-old man 15 years past his prime. :lol:

I didn't mention del potro.

I mentioned raonic/isner/karlovic.

Statistics for service points won are misleading because they factor in what happens after the serve.

We are strictly speaking about the serve as a standalone shot and those 3 have better serves. 1st and second.

Originally Posted by sunny_cali
You changed your claim from - they have better 1st/2nd serves to just 1st serves. So, which is it ? IMHO, their 1st serves are comparable, there is'nt a whole lot of difference -- additionally Pete was more clutch with both serves.

I mistyped. both 1st and second serves.
 

sonicare

Hall of Fame
The great thing about Sampras' serve was that he was able to call upon it when he needed it. However, I still feel that Karlovic and Isner have better serves. They are serves and nothing else for the most part. Sampras has a great forehand, great volleys, and great movement. The others, not so much. Saying their serves don't count because they are tall is sort of like saying an NBA team only won the Finals because they had the best player in the league.

Agree with most of what you said but I have a problem with the bolded part.

Thats just poetic/nostalgic nonsense.

Why didnt he always call on his serve? how do you explain his bad serving days? Infact, why did he lose any matches in his career if the above is true?
 

helloworld

Hall of Fame
I didn't mention del potro.

I mentioned raonic/isner/karlovic.

Statistics for service points won are misleading because they factor in what happens after the serve.

We are strictly speaking about the serve as a standalone shot and those 3 have better serves. 1st and second.



I mistyped. both 1st and second serves.

Raonic, Isner and Karlovic may have comparable first serve to Pete, but certainly not the second serve. Pete is the only player who can hit second serve almost as good as his first serve. No other player in history of tennis can do the same. You can check the earliest available clip of tennis match and you will find nothing like Sampras second serve.
 

NamRanger

G.O.A.T.
Pete did have the best serve of all time. I have sat at ground level directly behind the ad box corner as players tried to return his heat. I have watch as Pete's aces whistled past the returner and came flying directly towards my face.

Pete had the best first-serve-then-second serve combination that the sport has ever seen. It's as if he was taking two attempts at a first serve. However, this means that he was very dependent on his serve for getting himself into an attacking rhythm, for giving himself a very high number of relatively weak replies on which to pounce. . .so, if someone could only manage to return Pete's serve and then, on the strength of his ground game, seriously disrupt Pete's rhythm by pinning him behind his baseline, that would be Rafa. Rafa would not seek to take the ball early as Andre did, but rather, Rafa would stand so far back as to return enough of Pete's serves to drag Pete into countless back court rallies.



Nadal struggles with the likes of Isner and Roddick based on serve alone in an unbelievably slow environment. Sampras has a better serve package and more game to back it up. Seriously doubt Nadal would ever trouble Pete on anything but an extremely slow HC (which Roddick has beaten Nadal on quite soundly) and clay.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
You're delusional.
And you might be underrating him - he could be much worse than delusional. Sampras jock sniffers are a scary lot...

The guy has more talent in his pinky then you'll ever dream of...
Not to start a 'Nature vs. Nuture' debate, but... Get real. He's 6'1" and coordinated. Plenty of people on this board are probably just as coordinated. But a) his parents moved to So Cal - he was born in DC - if they hadn't moved, he may have never... ; b) parents then scraped together the $$$ to send him to a very good tennis program (Jack Kramer Club - Palos Verdes, CA); c) somehow he was steered away from playing other sports - he admitted in high school he was know as 'the tennis guy'; d) he was also steered toward playing serve and volley - he didn't make that decision on his own at 15.

I laugh off Pete's comments. I think it's bravado. Deep down he knows the Truth. On the Top 100 show he did also say "#50 is way better now than #50 in the mid-90s" - his way of admitting the game has improved.
 

vernonbc

Legend
Nadal struggles with the likes of Isner and Roddick based on serve alone in an unbelievably slow environment. Sampras has a better serve package and more game to back it up. Seriously doubt Nadal would ever trouble Pete on anything but an extremely slow HC (which Roddick has beaten Nadal on quite soundly) and clay.
Huh?? Roddick beat Nadal quite soundly on slow HC? In which fantasy world was that? Roddick has beaten Rafa 3 times, at the USO when Rafa was 18, on the fast HC of Dubai, and when he redlined and shocked himself and the world in 2010 at Miami in three tight sets. Rafa has beaten Roddick twice on clay (at DC), once on grass, and four times on HC (USO, WTF and IWx2).

Nadal has never played Isner in an 'unbelievably slow environment'. He's played and beaten him three times, at RG, Madrid and IW. I think if Rafa played Pete it would be a good match but considering Rafa has beaten everybody on the tour and has the second best in history career winning percentage on all surfaces, Rafa would have a pretty good chance of winning.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Huh?? Roddick beat Nadal quite soundly on slow HC? In which fantasy world was that? Roddick has beaten Rafa 3 times, at the USO when Rafa was 18, on the fast HC of Dubai, and when he redlined and shocked himself and the world in 2010 at Miami in three tight sets. Rafa has beaten Roddick twice on clay (at DC), once on grass, and four times on HC (USO, WTF and IWx2).

Nadal has never played Isner in an 'unbelievably slow environment'. He's played and beaten him three times, at RG, Madrid and IW. I think if Rafa played Pete it would be a good match but considering Rafa has beaten everybody on the tour and has the second best in history career winning percentage on all surfaces, Rafa would have a pretty good chance of winning.

That winning percentage Nadal has on all surfaces is skewed by his overwhelming number of clay court wins. If you break it down by surfaces both Federer and Sampras have a higher winning percentage on grass and hard courts than Nadal does.

No question Nadal would kill Sampras on clay but on grass and HC I would give the edge to prime Sampras.
 
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