Does Serena have a better career than Federer?

Who has had a better career?

  • Serena

    Votes: 37 41.1%
  • Federer

    Votes: 53 58.9%

  • Total voters
    90
If we are comparing their respective achievements, Serena is ahead.

In addition to more majors, she has the dominance statistics and a longer prime having had a very early start to winning majors.

Is Federer possibly ahead of Serena in respect to consistency, though?
 
yes, i dont know why its debatable and posts like this annoy me because its just set up to **** on the wta.

Of course. That kind of "fan" only thinks of women as the subject of their regressive sexual fantasies that will never come true, so beyond that, its complete disrespect for women--particularly in tennis.

roger is my fav, but his fanboys are a bit too much at times, they nearly lost it when roger himself said serena is the goat, which he said a few times.

The worst of Federer's fans conveniently ignore what Federer said about Serena. He--unlike the worst of his fans--lives in the reality of evidence-based history where her status compared to his own is concerned.
 
Of course. That kind of "fan" only thinks of women as the subject of their regressive sexual fantasies that will never come true, so beyond that, its complete disrespect for women--particularly in tennis.



The worst of Federer's fans conveniently ignore what Federer said about Serena. He--unlike the worst of his fans--lives in the reality of evidence-based history where her status compared to his own is concerned.

yes we get it you hate fed and his fans but either way yes serena is goat and her records stand alone.
 
Women get paid the same money as men for doing 3/5ths of the exact same work?
This seems like a clear case of gender discrimination.
I wonder why no law suits have ever been brought.

what an idiotic post, they are putting in the same amount of work and doing their job. should people who blitz opponents in 3 easy sets and it lasts 1 hour get paid less than 5 hour matches?
 
If we are comparing their respective achievements, Serena is ahead.

In addition to more majors, she has the dominance statistics and a longer prime having had a very early start to winning majors.

Is Federer possibly ahead of Serena in respect to consistency, though?
in terms of consistency yes. But this can only be separated by male/female.
slams count aside.

Serena has:
1 the greatest women's serve
2. greatest women's return game
3. longevity for women's singles
4. greatest groundies

Fed has:
1. longevity for men's singles
2. best looking BH slice ever

This is not working out as planned.
 
I think you know. They are not employed or represented y the same agent. Some actors/actresses are better box office draws,
Some athletes are better performers.

in terms of consistency yes. But this can only be separated by male/female.
slams count aside.

Serena has:
1 the greatest women's serve
2. greatest women's return game
3. longevity for women's singles
4. greatest groundies

Fed has:
1. longevity for men's singles
2. best looking BH slice ever

This is not working out as planned.

i'd add once upon a time the best forehand for fed (i feel like people forget once upon a time it was his bread/butter) but either way all things point to serena.

also we can also bring up movies since tennis is entertainment, do pay more for movies that are longer? people using sets to argue more pay for men annoy me
 
Serena never competed with 2 other players that were even remotely comparable to her in terms of dominance, longevity, and are in tennis GOAT debates like Fed’s career with Nadal and Djokovic.
 
i'd add once upon a time the best forehand for fed (i feel like people forget once upon a time it was his bread/butter) but either way all things point to serena.

also we can also bring up movies since tennis is entertainment, do pay more for movies that are longer? people using sets to argue more pay for men annoy me
Fed also was arguably one of the best returners pre-2010. He returned Roddick and Philipoussis' serve as needed for a timely break who were legit slam winners.
That's Djokovic now.
Serena got to play Safina, Jankovic,Wozniacki for ez titles and some other unknowns/long forgotten players.
women did play best of 5 at a couple events way back.
 
Now before someone starts making it about men's vs women's tennis... I am only talking about achievements in their respective tours. Simply put, if we take all their career achievements currently, has Serena Williams had a better career in Women's tennis than Federer has had in Men's tennis?

Federer. Federer is #1 among men for major wins, major finals reached, year-end championships, and weeks at #1. Serena is not #1 among women in any of these categories. And where Federer is not #1, he's still better than Serena compared to his peers in # titles won, career win/loss and peak Elo. Now Djokovic and Nadal may surpass Federer in some of these areas eventually, but the only analysis we can do now shows Federer having the better relative achievements against his peers. And Federer's achievement was against higher competition of which Serena has had little of for 11 years.

Federer:
Major wins: 20 (#1 among men)
Most major finals: 31 (#1 among men)
YEC: 6 (#1 among men)
Titles won: 102 (#2 among men)
Career W/L %: 82% (#4 among men)
Weeks at #1: 310 (#1 among men)
Peak Elo: #2 among men

Williams:
Major wins: 23 (#2 among women)
Most major finals: 33 (#2 among women)
YEC: 5 (#2 among women)
Titles won: 72 (#6 among women)
Career W/L %: 85% (#5 among women)
Weeks at #1: 319 (#3 among women)
Peak Elo: #4 among women
 
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Both careers great in their own way. Why the sodding comparison? Like comparing apples and orange. what Serena has done for women’s and black sports women is unprecedented. What Federer has done and the way he has played the game is also unprecedente.
 
Both careers great in their own way. Why the sodding comparison? Like comparing apples and orange. what Serena has done for women’s and black sports women is unprecedented. What Federer has done and the way he has played the game is also unprecedente.

What has he done and which way?
 
Serena:

23 slams
319 weeks at #1
1 Olympic singles gold
3 Olympics doubles gold
6x YEC champ
14 doubles slams + 2 mixed doubles

Federer:

20 slams
310 weeks at #1
0 Olympic singles gold (1 silver)
1 Olympic doubles gold
6X WTF champ


Serena wins pretty much all the big stats.
 
YYoouummmmmmmmmmmmmmmum="Aussie Darcy, post: 13732586, member: 736164"]
Serena:

23 slams
319 weeks at #1
1 Olympic singles gold
3 Olympics doubles gold
6x YEC champ
14 doubles slams + 2 mixed doubles

Federer:

20 slams
310 weeks at #1
0 Olympic singles gold (1 silver)
1 Olympic doubles gold
6X WTF champ


Serena wins pretty much all the big stats.
[/QUOTE]

You could add longevity for Serena. Slam winner at 17 and potentially 37/8.
 
Now before someone starts making it about men's vs women's tennis... I am only talking about achievements in their respective tours. Simply put, if we take all their career achievements currently, has Serena Williams had a better career in Women's tennis than Federer has had in Men's tennis?

aman92

Of course, Serena has had a better career, she's a Mother. Serena will even remind of the fact she is a Mother. Federer, on the other hand is only the father of 2-sets of twins.

Shalom
 
Serena:

23 slams
319 weeks at #1
1 Olympic singles gold
3 Olympics doubles gold
6x YEC champ
14 doubles slams + 2 mixed doubles

Federer:

20 slams
310 weeks at #1
0 Olympic singles gold (1 silver)
1 Olympic doubles gold
6X WTF champ

Serena wins pretty much all the big stats.

Unless you want to say achievements in the men's and women's games are directly comparable, then this isn't meaningful without context, context that I provided in my previous post, which shows that Federer's achievements are better among men than Serena's are among women.
 
Now before someone starts making it about men's vs women's tennis... I am only talking about achievements in their respective tours. Simply put, if we take all their career achievements currently, has Serena Williams had a better career in Women's tennis than Federer has had in Men's tennis?
Did Louis Armstrong have a better career than Neil Armstrong?
 
Unless you want to say achievements in the men's and women's games are directly comparable, then this isn't meaningful without context, context that I provided in my previous post, which shows that Federer's achievements are better among men than Serena's are among women.
Wasn't that exactly said in the OP?

Now before someone starts making it about men's vs women's tennis... I am only talking about achievements in their respective tours. Simply put, if we take all their career achievements currently, has Serena Williams had a better career in Women's tennis than Federer has had in Men's tennis?

Putting gender aside, who's got the greater achievement?
 
If two women from Belgium in their 20's didn't retire early she'd have less slams. That's fact. Clijsters and Henin gave her losses, fits and battles.
Serena has done extremely well without them.
Yet even then she had losses to Vinci, to donde esta' Muguruza, and Kerber. lots of one-offs to hot players, Not so much with Fed in finals
They are non-comparable careers because she didn't have two ATG's playing against her for 15 years.
Owned? Fed loses in 5 sets to Djokovic at Wimbledon twice.
At least she's making the finals though. Serena's into another US Open final while Federer lost to Dimitrov who's out of the top 70. Last year she made the final while Federer lost to... Millman....
 
Serena:

23 slams
319 weeks at #1
1 Olympic singles gold
3 Olympics doubles gold
6x YEC champ
14 doubles slams + 2 mixed doubles

Federer:

20 slams
310 weeks at #1
0 Olympic singles gold (1 silver)
1 Olympic doubles gold
6X WTF champ
Serena wins pretty much all the big stats.

Far and above Federer, as you so accurately detail.

At least she's making the finals though. Serena's into another US Open final while Federer lost to Dimitrov who's out of the top 70. Last year she made the final while Federer lost to... Millman....

Yep.
 
Wasn't that exactly said in the OP?

You're misunderstanding. I mean absolute numbers between the men and women's games aren't comparable. Federer's absolute numbers in slams and weeks at #1 are lower than Serena's but no man has achieved higher numbers than Federer's there. Women have achieved higher numbers than Serena there. So relative to other men, Federer has higher achievements than Serena does relative to other women. If you do say absolute numbers are relevant, the implication is that men and women are competing against one another in the same tournaments for the same numbers. Then let Federer play in a women's tournament and see what happens. He'd have won every women's major he ever played.
 
Is Serena better than Esther Vergeer who has won 48 Grand Slam tournaments, 23 year-end championships and 7 Paralympics titles ???

Yes, she is better, but her career achievements in their respective tours(which is the topic here) are not.
 
Honestly you really can’t compare men’s slam with women’s slam as the same achievement, precisely because of BO5 and BO3. Women’s slam is actually easier to win than women’s Master because it has an extra day off. At this age Serena Williams can have most of her year off and focus on the four slams and a couple of other tournaments and still do well. No way for men to do that because the lack of matches coming into slams in detrimental, much less the case for women.
 
Call me when Serena faces some competition.


It happened already, you've missed it. In the 2000s, when Federer had no competition outside clay.

Exactly. Two+ generations of the most incompetent male players in tennis history, which explains why he was able to win the number of majors. But in Sexism-Addled Brain Land, they ignore the fact that years ago, you had such skyrockets from the original Can't Win A Major Legion, ultimately never being a true, consistent threat, such as Nalbandian (one of the most overrated players of the past twenty years. The level of "greatness" attributed to him was utterly unjustified and largely based on two wins over Federer at majors), Blake (whatever), Davydenko (who lost to Federer 19 times), and Tipsarević (whatever) among too many names to list here. Finally there's Hewitt , who defenders love to throw in the mix as an era life preserver, but the truth of the matter was that he was already finished winning his last of two career majors a year before Federer won his first , and had diminished as a contender, making his 2005 Australian Open finals appearance more of Cinderella swan song than his being some constant contender/threat, but it provided Safin with what would be his last major after a drought that began after his 2000 US Open win.
Now in this aging "next generation," the latest Can't Win A Major Legion (Thiem, Nishikori, Kyrgios, Isner, Dimitrov, Simon, Pospisil, Tomic, Querry, et al), have wasted long years tripping their way into majors events, and doing their customary rollover, then collect their checks as they scoot out of the door. As of this date, this group of vastly overrated players continue the aforementioned weakest era in tennis history. Its shameful, and what is more disheartening is the fact there's no one on the horizon (so far) who seems to be of a different cut than the losers listed here, or see that it is their job to do more than that smile+rollover.

Remove Djokovic and Nadal, and what kind of serious ATP competition landscape did Fedrerer face (in comes the Murray defenders who will claim he "could have" won 10 majors "if not for...")?
 
2008 to 2019 is 12 seasons. How big of a hypocrite do you have to be to compare it to a 4 year period. Serena's competition is beyond the joke.

The decade ends in 2010, that's all I have said. Now back to competition. Up until 2008 she had a tougher competition, you have to be silly to state the opposite. I don't know who is a hypocrite here, since Federer was active well before 2004(if the period of 4 years you are talking about is the part of his career that lasts that long and ends in 2008).
 
In what world can you compare Serena to Roger??

Serena has like 30 less career titles than Roger and only won 3 more GS than Roger has - one would think winning 140 BO5 GS matches are superior to winning 161 BO3 matches . She never had to face any top 5 ATG (maybe not even top 10). She started when Graf retired and players like Seles were over the hill already. There is not any current female player around that is even close to the 10 GS mark title, if I am not mistaken. Serena should have won like 30 Slams at least.
 
At least she's making the finals though. Serena's into another US Open final while Federer lost to Dimitrov who's out of the top 70. Last year she made the final while Federer lost to... Millman....
This will be an endless back and forth of apples and oranges for men & women.
Dimitrov was former top 10 and a SF at 2017 AUS Open against Nadal.
Vinci was ranked what at USO & beat Serena in semis? Sorry that was as bad or worse an upset as Fed losing to Seppi in 3rd rd.

Fed has played in the most memorable Wimbledon finals ever. Serena's USO final wins against Azarenka were pretty epic.

Still it's a different game, best of 5, so naturally he would decline faster than her having played far more matches and sets. Serena has been injured a lot and taken a full or two seasons off. Add up the time-off and she's probably played 17 1/2 - 18 yrs out of 20. Fed has been out of action approx. 6-9 months out of 20 years.

I've already said Serena's accomplishments & present-day level "in the WTA" are better than Fed in the ATP.
 
This will be an endless back and forth of apples and oranges for men & women.
Dimitrov was former top 10 and a SF at 2017 AUS Open against Nadal.
Vinci was ranked what at USO & beat Serena in semis? Sorry that was as bad or worse an upset as Fed losing to Seppi in 3rd rd.

Fed has played in the most memorable Wimbledon finals ever. Serena's USO final wins against Azarenka were pretty epic.

Still it's a different game, best of 5, so naturally he would decline faster than her having played far more matches and sets. Serena has been injured a lot and taken a full or two seasons off. Add up the time-off and she's probably played 17 1/2 - 18 yrs out of 20. Fed has been out of action approx. 6-9 months out of 20 years.

I've already said Serena's accomplishments & present-day level "in the WTA" are better than Fed in the ATP.
The Vinci loss was 4 years ago, the Millman loss was last year..... I'd say Fed losing to Millman was pretty damn bad, sure history wasn't on the line but that makes it even more big because Fed has no business losing to Millman, at least Serena has the excuse of the weight of history as to why she lost to Vinci.

Oh and Vinci was ranked #43 at the time of the Serena win. Dimitrov is ranked #78 as of the Serena win. Just saying :)
 
In a world where

Fed plays in WTA
Fed plays only BO3
Fed plays just slams and cares two cents about other events
Fed does not care to be an ambassador of the sport

Serena plays with ATP level competition of big 3
Serena plays BO5
Serena plays year round
Serena conducts herself and try not to intimidate her opponents

How many majors do each have ??
 
The Vinci loss was 4 years ago, the Millman loss was last year..... I'd say Fed losing to Millman was pretty damn bad, sure history wasn't on the line but that makes it even more big because Fed has no business losing to Millman, at least Serena has the excuse of the weight of history as to why she lost to Vinci.

Oh and Vinci was ranked #43 at the time of the Serena win. Dimitrov is ranked #78 as of the Serena win. Just saying :)
kiwis and blueberries.
ATP men's depth (50-100) has always been superior to the WTA.
If Millman is the only stat to use, any more cherry-picking?
You act as if when Agassi was ranked 100+ he should not have beaten a top 10 player .
Dimitrov was ranked top 3 in 2017. I thought you knew. c'mon now
 
kiwis and blueberries.
ATP men's depth (50-100) has always been superior to the WTA.
If Millman is the only stat to use, any more cherry-picking?
You act as if when Agassi was ranked 100+ he should not have beaten a top 10 player .
Dimitrov was ranked top 3 in 2017. I thought you knew. c'mon now
Comparing Dimitrov to Agassi, that's definitely something! I mean at least Vinci accomplished something in her career and won a whole bunch of slams in doubles. Dimitrov hasn't even made a tour final since February 2018 (anything from a slam to a Masters to an ATP250). Vinci at least made one a few months before beating Serena. Don't act like 2019 Dimitrov was more of a threat to Federer than 2015 Vinci was to Serena. From memory, Vinci won 4 consecutive matches to make the New Haven QF the week before the USO in 2015 while Dimitrov had lost 7 of his last 8 matches coming into this USO. No?
 
Comparing Dimitrov to Agassi, that's definitely something! I mean at least Vinci accomplished something in her career and won a whole bunch of slams in doubles. Dimitrov hasn't even made a tour final since February 2018 (anything from a slam to a Masters to an ATP250). Vinci at least made one a few months before beating Serena. Don't act like 2019 Dimitrov was more of a threat to Federer than 2015 Vinci was to Serena.
Dimitrov hasn't even made a tour final since February 2018 - so just 1.5 yrs ago. cherrrrryyyy pick.
Men's ATP depth and his injuries do play a factor.
2017 #3ranked Dimitrov was a threat to Federer. He almost made AUS final but lost to Nadal in 5.
He has been in top 30 since 2013.
I don't remember Vinci's name ever in semis, quarters or a threat to anybody. She is as journeyman/women as you can get in singles.
She got beat by a doubles specialist? That's even worse.
Fed doesn't lose to one or two-slam wonders(Muguruza, Kerber, Halep) in finals. His losses are to Djokovic, who has 16 slams and arguably might end up besting Fed's slam record.
 
Dimitrov hasn't even made a tour final since February 2018 - so just 1.5 yrs ago. cherrrrryyyy pick.
Men's ATP depth and his injuries do play a factor.
2017 #3ranked Dimitrov was a threat to Federer. He almost made AUS final but lost to Nadal in 5.
He has been in top 30 since 2013.
I don't remember Vinci's name ever in semis, quarters or a threat to anybody. She is as journeyman/women as you can get in singles.
She got beat by a doubles specialist? That's even worse.
Fed doesn't lose to one or two-slam wonders(Muguruza, Kerber, Halep) in finals. His losses are to Djokovic, who has 16 slams and arguably might end up besting Fed's slam record.
Vinci made a tour final 3 months before her USO run. Dimitrov hasn't made one in 18 months. Vinci was also #1 in doubles while Dimitrov (as you said) hasn't been relevant since 2017. And Vinci has actually made the USO QF twice before her run so she wasn't 'nothing'. Not as accomplished as Dimitrov but was far better leading into the USO that year than Dimitrov was this year.
Oh and Fed lost to Millman last year right while Serena lost the final to Osaka? Fed hasn't lost finals to 1 or 2x slam wonders in finals because he loses earlier to slam nobodies like Millman, Dimitrov, Raonic, Tsitsipas, Anderson (just some names from the last 3 years alone).. the list goes on.

This is all coming from a Fed fan, I don't want to diminish his feats but to say that his losses at the USO this year and last year weren't that big is laughable.
 
In a world where

Fed plays in WTA
Fed plays only BO3
Fed plays just slams and cares two cents about other events
Fed does not care to be an ambassador of the sport

Serena plays with ATP level competition of big 3
Serena plays BO5
Serena plays year round
Serena conducts herself and try not to intimidate her opponents

How many majors do each have ??
Tennisaddict maybe you should see an optometrist? I mean did you not read the OP or can you not read? Cause it said assuming everything is about just achievements and as it is. Maybe double check and come back?
 
...and lost. The person you quoted stated the scenario if Serena wins tomorrow, numbnuts.

By the way, are you going to apologise for your misogyny? We now have it on record that you consider male tennis players to be equivalent to F1 drivers, and female tennis players equivalent to F2 or below.
What does this have to do with misogyny? It is simply a fact that men’s tennis is kn a higher level than women’s tennis (even you has to admit) same with F1 and F2. I do not care at all about motor sports but I would assume the gap is even bigger between men’s and women’s tennis.
 
Fed has played in the most memorable Wimbledon finals ever.

According to...?

The 1980 men's final is and remains the greatest of all Wimbledon men's matches. Nothing Federer has participated in will ever match the magnitude of that in terms of players, their place in history, cultural importance for elevating tennis to global popularity, the drama of it all, etc.


Fed does not care to be an ambassador of the sport

Subjective nonsense having nothing to do with the OP question. But for anyone who desired to go there, as a player of historic significance in tennis, sports in general and beyond, Serena leaves Federer in the dust.

Once again, Federer has spent nearly two decades slapping away at the two-plus most incompetent generations I tennis history. Oh, let us' go back to the original Can't Win A Major Legion, ultimately never being a true, consistent threat, such as Nalbandian (one of the most overrated players of the past twenty years. The level of "greatness" attributed to him was utterly unjustified and largely based on two wins over Federer at majors), Blake (whatever), Davydenko (who lost to Federer 19 times), and Tipsarević (whatever) among too many names to list here. Finally there's Hewitt , who defenders love to throw in the mix as an era life preserver, but the truth of the matter was that he was already finished winning his last of two career majors a year before Federer won his first , and had diminished as a contender, making his 2005 Australian Open finals appearance more of Cinderella swan song than his being some constant contender/threat, but it provided Safin with what would be his last major after a drought that began after his 2000 US Open win.

Now in this aging "next generation," the latest Can't Win A Major Legion (Thiem, Nishikori, Kyrgios, Isner, Dimitrov, Simon, Pospisil, Tomic, Querry, et al), have wasted long years tripping their way into majors events, and doing their customary rollover, then collect their checks as they scoot out of the door. As of this date, this group of vastly overrated players continue the aforementioned weakest era in tennis history. Its shameful, and what is more disheartening is the fact there's no one on the horizon (so far) who seems to be of a different cut than the losers listed here, or see that it is their job to do more than that smile+rollover.

Remove Djokovic and Nadal, and what kind of serious ATP competition landscape did Federer face (in comes the Murray defenders who will claim he "could have" won 10 majors "if not for...")? None. It was one long practice session where the outcome was determined before anyone ever stepped on court.

That, and Federer also failed to win Olympic Gold in singles---which Serena won, along with other records he lacked the ability to match (detailed in this thread).
 
This thread is rather stupid like all Serena vs Federer threads. There are basically two ways to answer this both really clear. Either we are talking absolute level where Federer hs obviously greater such as every other top 100 player who ever lived. The second way would be if we consider men’s and women’s tennis completely different sports and look who has dominated his sport more. Than it is also very simple because 23>20. Even though this assumption is pretty dumb, it would be clear that from this perspective Serena had the better career than Federer. She would however still not be the tennis GOAT, this would be Esther Vergeer.
 
Vinci made a tour final 3 months before her USO run. Dimitrov hasn't made one in 18 months. Vinci was also #1 in doubles while Dimitrov (as you said) hasn't been relevant since 2017. And Vinci has actually made the USO QF twice before her run so she wasn't 'nothing'. Not as accomplished as Dimitrov but was far better leading into the USO that year than Dimitrov was this year.
Oh and Fed lost to Millman last year right while Serena lost the final to Osaka? Fed hasn't lost finals to 1 or 2x slam wonders in finals because he loses earlier to slam nobodies like Millman, Dimitrov, Raonic, Tsitsipas, Anderson (just some names from the last 3 years alone).. the list goes on.

This is all coming from a Fed fan, I don't want to diminish his feats but to say that his losses at the USO this year and last year weren't that big is laughable.
I highlighted the recent 2-time slam finalists and the 2-time slam semi-finalist for you. Tsitsipas is top 20 and has a promising future.
So essentially his loss to Millman, a true anomaly cashes you out?
If you can say Vinci is a somebody in singles in mirror without laughing it shows how weak and inconsistent the WTA players are.
There is not a big 2, 3 or 4 in WTA. They come and go. She's had no real competition since Clijsters and Henin retired in 2011. If those two continued & played into their 30's and Serena still had 20+slams, case over.

Let Fed play with nobodies since 2011 and he'd have 28+ slams.
Where did I ever say his losses at USO are not that big? Must be mistaking me for someone else here. No doubt he is in decline. His game is aging, shanks are increasing.
 
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