Does Spin potential of multi matter if Hybrid ?

[Nostradamus]

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/X117/X117Review.html

If you are hybrid with multi and Poly, does spin potential of Multi matter at all since the poly is in mains ? for some reason Babolat Xcel Power has very high spin potential compared to string like X-1 biphase which is know for its spin potential. but if you hybrid with poly , does this number matter at all ?

 

[SpinToWin]

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/X117/X117Review.html

If you are hybrid with multi and Poly, does spin potential of Multi matter at all since the poly is in mains ? for some reason Babolat Xcel Power has very high spin potential compared to string like X-1 biphase which is know for its spin potential. but if you hybrid with poly , does this number matter at all ?

If you string poly in mains you will get less spin. The stiffer poly will notch the softer multi crosses and then get stuck in the creases created, reducing snapback. Just get the stiffest multi you can find to lessen the effect.
Spin potential of these strings only matters when you have them in the mains/when you have a setup which should create snapback (generally smooth strings with good spin potential have great snapback).

 

[Nostradamus]

If you string poly in mains you will get less spin. The stiffer poly will notch the softer multi crosses and then get stuck in the creases created, reducing snapback. Just get the stiffest multi you can find to lessen the effect.
Spin potential of these strings only matters when you have them in the mains/when you have a setup which should create snapback (generally smooth strings with good spin potential have great snapback).

I am confused. so if I use Babolat Xcel power which is very soft multi in crosses I will get less spin than X-1 biphase in crosses ? since X-1 biphase is stiffer multi ? as long as I use same Poly in mains. ?

 

[SpinToWin]

I am confused. so if I use Babolat Xcel power which is very soft multi in crosses I will get less spin than X-1 biphase in crosses ? since X-1 biphase is stiffer multi ? as long as I use same Poly in mains. ?

You'll probably get minutely more spin with Xcel initially. However, because it is much softer, it will notch faster and you will lose the spin in your setup faster as well. Whenever I string such hybrids I use Sensation Control because it takes forever to notch, so playability is maintained over a long period of time. There's no point in a hybrid that loses spin and playability after a few hours

 

[Nostradamus]

You'll probably get minutely more spin with Xcel initially. However, because it is much softer, it will notch faster and you will lose the spin in your setup faster as well. Whenever I string such hybrids I use Sensation Control because it takes forever to notch, so playability is maintained over a long period of time. There's no point in a hybrid that loses spin and playability after a few hours

OK, that makes sense. However, I also use the Multi to give me the power and feel from the crosses. so I can't just stick in any multi in there. that is why I end up using these premium multi in the crosses.
Not sure why Xcel power has so much spin potential than X-1 biphase according to TW string comparison ? Not like Xcel power is textured or anything like that.....

 

[SpinToWin]

OK, that makes sense. However, I also use the Multi to give me the power and feel from the crosses. so I can't just stick in any multi in there. that is why I end up using these premium multi in the crosses.
Not sure why Xcel power has so much spin potential than X-1 biphase according to TW string comparison ? Not like Xcel power is textured or anything like that.....

Xcel Power most likely is slicker. As a result it has more string snapback on impact which increases spin.

 

[Nostradamus]

Xcel Power most likely is slicker. As a result it has more string snapback on impact which increases spin.

but does this effect matter if the Xcel is in crosses and poly in mains ?

 

[mikeler]

Don't worry about what multi is in the crosses for spin. The poly mains will dominate the spin potential.

 

[torpantennis]

Poly/multi with poly mains is about the lowest spin combo of any strings. The strings are so stucked together, with no pocketing, no feel, no spin, after just half an hour of hitting. Just a board-like, unplayable combo IMO. Dead textured full poly is also similarly board-like and unplayable.

If you really want spin, your options are gut/poly or multi/poly with poly in the crosses, or full poly with non-textured crosses. People think poly/multi gives them spin, but it's the low power, which gives people confidence to hit harder, which can then be used to increase spin. But if you've got the courage to swing fast also with the higher spin potential string combos, you'll be amazed. If you want both low power and high spin potential, full poly is the way to go.

BTW, check ATP pros, and you'll see that the players who use poly/gut are the players who hit the flattest. No surprise!

 

[SpinToWin]

Poly/multi with poly mains is about the lowest spin combo of any strings. The strings are so stucked together, with no pocketing, no feel, no spin, after just half an hour of hitting. Just a board-like, unplayable combo IMO. Dead textured full poly is also similarly board-like and unplayable.

If you really want spin, your options are gut/poly or multi/poly with poly in the crosses, or full poly with non-textured crosses. People think poly/multi gives them spin, but it's the low power, which gives people confidence to hit harder, which can then be used to increase spin. But if you've got the courage to swing fast also with the higher spin potential string combos, you'll be amazed. If you want both low power and high spin potential, full poly is the way to go.

BTW, check ATP pros, and you'll see that the players who use poly/gut are the players who hit the flattest. No surprise!

totally agree with you

 

[anubis]

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Reviews/X117/X117Review.html

If you are hybrid with multi and Poly, does spin potential of Multi matter at all since the poly is in mains ? for some reason Babolat Xcel Power has very high spin potential compared to string like X-1 biphase which is know for its spin potential. but if you hybrid with poly , does this number matter at all ?

Like torpa said before, poly in the mains doesn't help.

The thing that produces the most topspin on a string bed is ALWAYS going to be how slick and smooth the cross strings are. You NEED the main strings to slide freely over the cross strings -- over the life of the string bed -- in order to maximize spin.

I say "over the life of the string bed" because ANY string combination works fine within the first hour. Even Luxilon ALU power rough in the mains and x-1 biphase in the crosses (two of the most stickiest strings made) work wonderfully for the first hour. But after that, the mains will be glued to the crosses for the duration of the time they spend in your frame.

Contrast that to a multi in the mains and poly cross: the multis will continue to slide wonderfully over the poly crosses for 10 to 15 hours of play time.

Therefore, it doesn't matter what you put in the mains -- as long as that string is not rough. Whether its poly, multi, nylon or kevlar -- as long as the crosses are smooth (and stay smooth), then you'll maximize your spin.

Of course, having BOTH strings very smooth is the BEST way to maximize spin, such as full bed of poly. But if you must hybrid with a multi string, then put poly in the crosses to ensure string movement.

 

[fgs]

i think something must be wrong with me:
1. i get the most spin with a poly in the mains and a multi (usually mantis comfort syn) in the crosses.
2. the above holds true for any poly fullbed i have played so far and the very few attempts to play multi mains and poly crosses too. the multi mains didn't get over an hour, and that was the 1.30 head pwr fusion which is quite a rope. with my other attempt spin was decent but some multis went in a shorter time than i need to string a stick (which is about 20 minutes).
3. i get slightly better spin with natty gut mains and smooth poly crosses and i also got good action on the ball with monogut zx mains and the mcs as a cross.

i agree that structured poly crosses are basically bringing spin down but then i have also had the same experience with the vast majority of syngut crosses.

 

[ChicagoJack]

1. Go here: TWU String Friction Tool

2. Read the 1 paragraph introduction.

3. Read the 1 paragraph observations/conclusion at the very bottom.

4. Study the friction digits and notice that any hybrid with any nylon based sygut or multi in any combination isn't ideal, and Poly/Nylon has amongst the highest COF on record. Nylon/Poly is better initially, but (as many here have noted) friction will build as the soft mains start to get beat up up the slicker, harder poly crosses.

5. Check the bottom two strings on the friction tool, the bed with the highest friction on record is a full set of X1-Biphase at 0.314. Second highest is Poly mains with X1 crosses at 0.299. This tells you that if the crosses are sticky, it doesn't really matter how slippery the mains are. All of the above is perfectly illustrated by noting that X1 mains with Poly crosses has a COF of 0.075.

6. Here's an old post of mine that is on topic. The link will save me some key stroking. From July 2013 : "Could some strings behave differently as crosses than as mains?"

-J

 

[mikeler]

I used poly/multi for awhile and got plenty of spin no matter what the data suggests.

 

[SpinToWin]

I used poly/multi for awhile and got plenty of spin no matter what the data suggests.

the thing is that you are not getting as much spin as is possible (especially not for a long time). I get much more spin with gut/poly than any other setup I have tried. Same principle as for multi/poly.

 

[fgs]

in spite of the fact that i have no extensive experience with gut-m/poly-x hybrids, i can say that this combo is indeed very spinny, if not the spinniest.
but from the ones i have tried so far, the multi-m/poly-x is just spinny in the figures but not oncourt. could be due to the fact that the multi's protective cover gets beat up pretty quick and there is almost no snap-back from that point on.

 

[mikeler]

the thing is that you are not getting as much spin as is possible (especially not for a long time). I get much more spin with gut/poly than any other setup I have tried. Same principle as for multi/poly.

I got more spin with poly/multi than gut/poly.

 

[mrtrinh]

I used poly/multi for awhile and got plenty of spin no matter what the data suggests.

I'm with you on this. People can talk data all they want but my results clearly show I get more spin with poly/multi. And yes I've tested both ways. Of course this doesn't matter to me anymore as I have gone full poly :twisted:

 

[Nostradamus]

I'm with you on this. People can talk data all they want but my results clearly show I get more spin with poly/multi. And yes I've tested both ways. Of course this doesn't matter to me anymore as I have gone full poly :twisted:

not so sure. You may not notice the Added spin with certain combinations because it may only be like 20-30 rev per minute. but it will pay off on Pnenetration and making your opponent fear your topspin more. But then your opponent will never tell you this, of course in fear of giving you the mental advantage as well.

 

[mikeler]

I'm with you on this. People can talk data all they want but my results clearly show I get more spin with poly/multi. And yes I've tested both ways. Of course this doesn't matter to me anymore as I have gone full poly :twisted:

Yep, I'm onto full poly as well. That combined with the 16x16 pattern puts all kinds of nastiness on the ball.

 

[torpantennis]

I got more spin with poly/multi than gut/poly.

Freshly strung, or also after 5-10h of use, when the multi cross has peeled?

I think the reason why some people feel gut or multi mains in the hybrids give them less spin is due to higher power level of these setups. If the power level is high, some people tend to swing slower which is not the way to go. I feel these setups are like rocket launchers if I hesitate with my swing and don't generate enough RHS. My swingpath OTOH is very steep, i.e spin increases a lot when I swing faster. If my swingpath were more parallel to the ground, it could well be that the power level with gut/multi mains was too much to handle.

Poly-main users: How's your swingpath like? More like hitting through the ball, or steeply upwards swinging style, with occasional reverse finishes? And what about gut/multi-main users?

 

[SpinToWin]

Poly-main users: How's your swingpath like? More like hitting through the ball, or steeply upwards swinging style, with occasional reverse finishes? And what about gut/multi-main users?

Gut/poly user.
Actually, my swingpath is mostly through the ball. I have a relatively small angle of upwards motion. However, at contact I use my wrist to close the racquet face and accelerate the racquet through the ball so that it brushes over it (kinda hard to explain, I hope you get what I mean). That way I get good court penetration and spin.
Of course when I go for a more spinny shot or a short angle my swingpath is much steeper (but I rarely use reverse finishes).

 

[mikeler]

Freshly strung, or also after 5-10h of use, when the multi cross has peeled?

I think the reason why some people feel gut or multi mains in the hybrids give them less spin is due to higher power level of these setups. If the power level is high, some people tend to swing slower which is not the way to go. I feel these setups are like rocket launchers if I hesitate with my swing and don't generate enough RHS. My swingpath OTOH is very steep, i.e spin increases a lot when I swing faster. If my swingpath were more parallel to the ground, it could well be that the power level with gut/multi mains was too much to handle.

Poly-main users: How's your swingpath like? More like hitting through the ball, or steeply upwards swinging style, with occasional reverse finishes? And what about gut/multi-main users?

I've got a very steep swing path on the forehand and flatter with moderate spin on the 2 hander.

 

[fgs]

i have a pretty steep swingbath on both wings and naturally a flatter one when i'm putting the ball away.

i don't get to any 5-10hrs as the most durable polys (1.25mm gauge) last roughly around 4 intensive practice hours. since the multi-crosses break usually within one hitting session, i quite regularly restring crosses if the mains are not too notched.

the poly mains seem to glide better even on a peeled multi than on another poly for me nd as already stated, multi mains on poly crosses is something i cannot afford from the durability perspective, but the ones i tried have not given me the feeling that i produce either more spin nor more penetrating shots.

the only set-ups that have been superior from this perspective have been natty mains and poly crosses and monogut zx mains and multi crosses. even though i have strung them higher than my usual poly/multi setup they have proven more powerful and in order to tame this additional power i had to adjust for more spin, which worked out impressively well. my only trouble with this is COST, as i'm still about 2.5times above my current poly/multi setup and i don't get more playing time. and since i am a string eater it all ends up at the end of the year.