Does Tsitsipas need a Ljubicic?

[SpinToWin]

Couldn’t see the full match, but a pattern that was apparent to me was Alcaraz serving the kick into Tsitsipas’ backhand (especially on the ad side) to much greater effect than should have been the case. This gave Alcaraz a step up in his service games, which is the one area of his game where he’s vulnerable imo (though capable of playing pace he doesn’t place the serve near the lines like elite servers do).

Of course one way to deal with that is to step back and rip the backhand from behind, but that isn’t really how Tsitsipas builds up his game most of the time, he’s usually closer to the line and looking to press forward into the court. That way he can take time away from his opponent and his aggressiveness especially off the forehand starts to pay off.

Really, the issue is that he doesn’t have an effective block or even a chip return off that wing. When executing either of those returns he usually produces a ball that is too easy for opponents like Alcaraz to attack. And because that kick into the backhand is a high percentage play, serving becomes easier for the opponent and the pressure on Tsitsipas to win points on serve rises.

This kinda reminds me of Federer’s backhand pre and post Ljubicic. While there were differences off the ground too, what really struck me then was the increased effectiveness of the return of serve. Fed connected early in front of the body and drove the ball deep. The effect was seen most vs Nadal imo, where his return performance was very different from what it used to be in their matchup.

And so this leads me to think that Tsitsipas needs the same. He needs a Ljubicic like figure to help him figure out how to drive the backhand off of aggressive topspin shots into that wing. This should also translate well into his grass and hardcourt performance I think.

Thoughts?

 

[tennis_pro]

Ljubicic was a specialist in early round Slam exitology, he's someone who can tell Tsitsipas "see what I did? don't do that". He's the perfect guy.

 

[TennisXpert@2023]

Couldn’t see the full match, but a pattern that was apparent to me was Alcaraz serving the kick into Tsitsipas’ backhand (especially on the ad side) to much greater effect than should have been the case. This gave Alcaraz a step up in his service games, which is the one area of his game where he’s vulnerable imo (though capable of playing pace he doesn’t place the serve near the lines like elite servers do).

Of course one way to deal with that is to step back and rip the backhand from behind, but that isn’t really how Tsitsipas builds up his game most of the time, he’s usually closer to the line and looking to press forward into the court. That way he can take time away from his opponent and his aggressiveness especially off the forehand starts to pay off.

Really, the issue is that he doesn’t have an effective block or even a chip return off that wing. When executing either of those returns he usually produces a ball that is too easy for opponents like Alcaraz to attack. And because that kick into the backhand is a high percentage play, serving becomes easier for the opponent and the pressure on Tsitsipas to win points on serve rises.

This kinda reminds me of Federer’s backhand pre and post Ljubicic. While there were differences off the ground too, what really struck me then was the increased effectiveness of the return of serve. Fed connected early in front of the body and drove the ball deep. The effect was seen most vs Nadal imo, where his return performance was very different from what it used to be in their matchup.

And so this leads me to think that Tsitsipas needs the same. He needs a Ljubicic like figure to help him figure out how to drive the backhand off of aggressive.

The same Ljubicic that some on this forum claimed wasn’t a good enough a player to coach a player of Federer’s caliber. Plus Federer is a way better caliber of player than Tsitsipas and just because he uses a OHBH doesn’t make him equal to Federer.

 

[SpinToWin]

The same Ljubicic that some on this forum claimed wasn’t a good enough a player to coach a player of Federer’s caliber. Plus Federer is a way better caliber of player than Tsitsipas and just because he uses a OHBH doesn’t make him equal to Federer.

Nobody said they’re equal.

 

[Shaolin]

He needs Magnus Norman.

 

[Federev]

Ljubicic was a specialist in early round Slam exitology, he's someone who can tell Tsitsipas "see what I did? don't do that". He's the perfect guy.

He didn’t need him as a doubles partner tho. Lub helped Fed as a coach.

 

[messiahrobins]

Tsitsipas needs a BH and a ROS.

 

[TennisXpert@2023]

He didn’t need him as a doubles partner tho. Lub helped Fed as a coach.

As stated before, Lub was frowned upon when he started working with Federer. He worked with Federer because they are friends. When Federer returned to the tour in 2017, his success was unknown. It was ONLY after Federer had success was Lub liked as his coach. Federer and Lub are friends. So what worked for Roger doesn’t mean it work for Tsitsipas because he’s OHBH.

 

[BeatlesFan]

He needs Magnus Norman.

No, Rune needs him. But team Holger is so toxic and nutty with mommy around that he'd last about 4 days.

 

[Kralingen]

He needs a Ljubotomy.

 

[Mainad]

He needs to do something to prepare for a better outcome when he next comes across Alcaraz.

 

[Federev]

As stated before, Lub was frowned upon when he started working with Federer. He worked with Federer because they are friends. When Federer returned to the tour in 2017, his success was unknown. It was ONLY after Federer had success was Lub liked as his coach. Federer and Lub are friends. So what worked for Roger doesn’t mean it work for Tsitsipas because he’s OHBH.

Just responding to the idea that because Lub didn’t win a slam he couldn’t be a help.

And the idea that Fed chose him as coach because they are “friends” is highly dubious to me. As if Fed didn’t have many many “friends” in the tennis community.

And the changes post Lub leave the burden of proof on others to contend for his incompetence.

 

[Shaolin]

No, Rune needs him. But team Holger is so toxic and nutty with mommy around that he'd last about 4 days.

A lot of people need Magnus! I admire his loyalty to Wawa but the guy is 66 years old now...hopefully will be moving on to someone with fresh legs sometime soon.

Rune would be a great choice but who knows with that crazy camp of his like you said.

 

[johnmccabe]

Needs to kick his father out of his tennis life

 

[sportsfan1]

I read that he kept complaining and arguing with the umpire during the match that carlos grunting was a distraction (and the ump should do something about it?). At the end of the match there was a nice handshake and all seemed good. Tsitsips was talking (probably trying to explain away his behavior) but Carlos just waved it off like it's all good.

 

[TennisXpert@2023]

Just responding to the idea that because Lub didn’t win a slam he couldn’t be a help.

And the idea that Fed chose him as coach because they are “friends” is highly dubious to me. As if Fed didn’t have many many “friends” in the tennis community.

And the changes post Lub leave the burden of proof on others to contend for his incompetence.

Please stop. Federer and Lub played against each other and are friends. The point is that Lub as Roger’s coach was not well received until he won after coming back to the tour from injury. Some even suggested that Lub should have stayed with Raonic because he was younger. Some believed Federer would never come back strong after the first knee surgery. Any ”love” Lub is getting as Federer’s coach is only after the fact.

 

[Federev]

Please stop. Federer and Lub played against each other and are friends. The point is that Lub as Roger’s coach was not well received until he won after coming back to the tour from injury. Some even suggested that Lub should have stayed with Raonic because he was younger. Some believed Federer would never come back strong after the first knee surgery. Any ”love” Lub is getting as Federer’s coach is only after the fact.

What?

I don’t know what I’m supposed to stop about?

That maybe Lub could help Tsitsipas? Maybe he could.

That his lack of winning a slam doesn’t mean he’s a bad coach? Ask Darren Cahill about that correlation.

That Fed didn’t chose him just because there were friends? You don’t think Fed had other coaching options who were also “friends”?

Why does it matter when Lub was “well received”? What’s that got to do with anything I said?

So what did I write that was wrong and needs to stop?

 

[TennisXpert@2023]

What?

I don’t know what I’m supposed to stop about?

That maybe Lub could help Tsitsipas? Maybe he could.

That his lack of winning a slam doesn’t mean he’s a bad coach? Ask Darren Cahill about that correlation.

That Fed didn’t chose him just because there were friends? You don’t think Fed had other coaching options who were also “friends”?

I don’t care when Lub was “well received”. What’s that got to do with anything I said?

Who cares? For myself I didn’t know what to expect, but Edberg didn’t help him win a slam - I knew that.

So what did I write that was wrong and needs to stop?

The terrible latching onto pas because he has a OHBH. Denying that Lub was highly thought of as a coach for Roger in the beginning, when he wasn’t. Edberg did “coach” Roger out of friendship because he didn’t coach before and he hasn’t coach since.

 

[Federev]

The terrible latching onto pas because he has a OHBH. Denying that Lub was highly thought of as a coach for Roger in the beginning, when he wasn’t. Edberg did “coach” Roger out of friendship because he didn’t coach before and he hasn’t coach since.

What’s wrong with the idea? Who knows if it might work? Maybe it won’t, but we don’t know.

I never said Lub was highly thought of as a coach before Roger. Show me where I did please?

(And what does that matter anyway? He could either help or he can’t. When people thought highly of him doesn’t dictate anything.)

Fed has lots of friends - show me where he has people coach him just because they are friends.

I honesty don’t know what you’re on about.

 

[top10]

Steph needs to study how Grigor plays Raz - especially on hard courts.
Shorten the swings, rob him of time, throw him changeups and move in/change the tactics.

 

[TennisXpert@2023]

What’s wrong with the idea? Who knows if it might work? Maybe it won’t, but we don’t know.

I never said Lub was highly thought of as a coach before Roger. Show me where I did please?

(And what does that matter anyway? He could either help or he can’t. When people thought highly of him doesn’t dictate anything.)

Fed has lots of friends - show me where he has people coach him just because they are friends.

I honesty don’t know what you’re on about.

Let me see Severin Luthi his other coach for starters. Countryman and very good friend. Federer had very close working relationships with all his coach thru the years which may not translate to other players. Let Pas find his own way.

 

[Tano]

Steph needs to study how Grigor plays Raz - especially on hard courts.
Shorten the swings, rob him of time, throw him changeups and move in/change the tactics.

Exactly, Dimitrov should "lend" his backhand to Tsitsipas and learn to play against rivals like Alcaraz.

 

[Federev]

Let me see Severin Luthi his other coach for starters. Countryman and very good friend. Federer had very close working relationships with all his coach thru the years which may not translate to other players. Let Pas find his own way.

With Sev, Fed was dead to rights with zero slams in five years - and a weakness on his backhand side - that Edberg’s S&V point shortening attempts couldn’t help.

Then Lub came in and Fed developed a stronger topspin backhand and closer to the lines positioning during baseline rallies - which led to him being stronger in his baseline game.

Why those changes came is anyone’s guess - maybe several factors - but Lub helping him some is as good a guess as any.

I wouldn’t think it be a bad idea for Tsitsi to try. But I wouldn’t shake a stick at Sev either.

IMO he’d be fortunate to get either of them.

 

[a10best]

anybody but his Dad who wants the spotlight on him. Tsits won't go any further with coach Dad. Especially with Zev, Med, Carlos and Jannik in their peak years.

 

[socallefty]

He has the opposite problem of Federer. Federer had a good slice/block return on his BH, but he didn’t drive the return confidently with his smaller racquets. After he switched to a bigger model, he was more confident in driving his returns including on the rise. I don’t know how much of the credit goes to his coach and how much on the decision to move to a bigger racquet which also helped him with better BH drives from the baseline. Federer is ranked only around #100 on the ATP career return leader dashboard they publish on their website.

Tsitsipas has a terrible slice and much worse block return on the BH compared to Federer. I think it is more of a technique improvement needed. So, he has to stand back and drive the ball currently. Unfortunately Alcaraz has an excellent kick that bounces up more than most and Tsitsipas has a problem with this high BH return particularly wide on the ad court. If he stands too far back and wide to hit the return, Alcaraz has a lot of open space to hit his +1 shot into.

Tsitsipas has a BH problem including a poor slice in general and not just on returns. He needs a technique coach and his Dad is obviously not getting the results needed.

 

[tennis24x7]

Ljubicic was a specialist in early round Slam exitology, he's someone who can tell Tsitsipas "see what I did? don't do that". He's the perfect guy.

early round Slam exitology made me lol. He needs a new backhand

 

[Musterrific]

Federer possessed the supreme talent to implement Ljubicic's recommended changes and yield great results. I'm not convinced that Tsitsipas is on the level to do the same.

 

[BeatlesFan]

He needs to do something to prepare for a better outcome when he next comes across Alcaraz.

Watch Stef's presser. He openly admits that "the kid is just too good" and he cannot handle his heavy topspin hit so deep. Tsitsipas was painfully honest in his post-match presser.

 

[Breakpointerer]

Ljubicic was a specialist in early round Slam exitology, he's someone who can tell Tsitsipas "see what I did? don't do that". He's the perfect guy.

Beautiful reference

 

[Bukowski]

He plays like it’s a physical law to hit a BH after the peak of the bounce. Like the rec players that run backwards from the ball.