Does your tennis club charge a USTA league Fees?

[JRstriker12]

I guess I am just lucky living in Atlanta. THere are many public courts here that take reservations- we just have to pay them a league fee to play out of there. For us it comes out around $35 per person per season. (they make you pay for practice time as well- its one big upfront fee at the beginning of the season) Go to whatever public courts there are that let you reserve time and see if they have a policy for league tennis. I am guessing that you just haven't ever asked- it doesn't make any sense to me that public courts wouldn't allow you to have a usta team out of public courts. I mean thats a decently big $700 check those public courts get from us every season- just seems to me that for the amount of $$ you are talking about some courts would easily give you priority during your league times.

I don't think that it's that the public courts won't allow a league, it's just that I think in raiden's area, the clubs have control of the USTA leagues - as he explained ealier in response to my question. He may also have very few or no "public courts" as all the courts in the county may be owned by an association - we have a community like that where I have to join the association to use thier courts.

Overiding an exstablished league is not easy. For example, in my area in VA, all our league games are played indoors (summer, fall, winter, spring) and are timed (Ran out of time at 6-7, 3-1? Too bad). I could try to start an outdoor league, but that would take alot more time than I have and a lot of work to move long established teams from the current indoor leagues.

 

[Topaz]

Overiding an exstablished league is not easy. For example, in my area in VA, all our league games are played indoors (summer, fall, winter, spring) and are timed (Ran out of time at 6-7, 3-1? Too bad). I could try to start an outdoor league, but that would take alot more time than I have and a lot of work to move long established teams from the current indoor leagues.

JR, that is just the indoor adult leagues.

As you know, mixed allows a longer time (2 hours).

And we do have outdoor leagues, I've played in them for several years now. The guys don't have one because nobody organizes the teams, but the structure for the league is already there. We have 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0 outdoor women's leagues, and we get a full two out of three sets and two hours of play.

 

[spot]

Just because the current teams are all out of clubs I just find it hard to believe that the USTA would BAN a team from playing out of a public court. I just haven't ever heard of the USTA allowing monopolies like that. As long as the facility met the USTA standards then I have to think the USTA would allow you to play. ANd if they tried to maintain a monopoly then I would just appeal that on up the USTA chain. I think that its probably that the clubs are the ones that go to through the work to organize the teams and all of them currently are out of clubs- not that the USTA would prevent another team from joining if they were part of a public court.Someone just has to be first to organize the team out of a public court.

 

[JRstriker12]

JR, that is just the indoor adult leagues.

As you know, mixed allows a longer time (2 hours).

And we do have outdoor leagues, I've played in them for several years now. The guys don't have one because nobody organizes the teams, but the structure for the league is already there. We have 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0 outdoor women's leagues, and we get a full two out of three sets and two hours of play.

Yes, I know mixed gets more time and I knew there are female outdoor leagues..... but that doesn't help me much if I want to play men's league outdoors.

Guess the guys don't want to play out side for some reason. There has to be a reason no one organizes the outdoor teams

 

[Topaz]

Yes, I know mixed gets more time and I knew there are female outdoor leagues..... but that doesn't help me much if I want to play men's league outdoors.

Guess the guys don't want to play out side for some reason. There has to be a reason no one organizes the outdoor teams

All you have to do is sign up with Ingrid. However, a whole team from indoor can not play as a whole team in outdoor...there is a 2 player rule that prevents that...thereby preventing a dominant team from 'taking over' both leagues in a particular level.

Nobody organizes it because it involves some extra volunteer work. *shrug* I really like outdoor, and I've been one of the people who help organize it...I think it is worth it. If you told Ingrid you were interested, she could help you.

We play at Wakefield Park and Nottoway Park. We also have daytime outdoor leagues, too.

 

[JRstriker12]

Just because the current teams are all out of clubs I just find it hard to believe that the USTA would BAN a team from playing out of a public court. I just haven't ever heard of the USTA allowing monopolies like that. As long as the facility met the USTA standards then I have to think the USTA would allow you to play. ANd if they tried to maintain a monopoly then I would just appeal that on up the USTA chain. I think that its probably that the clubs are the ones that go to through the work to organize the teams and all of them currently are out of clubs- not that the USTA would prevent another team from joining if they were part of a public court.Someone just has to be first to organize the team out of a public court.

Spot, if I understand raiden correctly. THE CLUBS organize the leagues, not just the teams. Each club has its own USTA league and they meet for playoffs between clubs toward the end of the year.

If there are public courts, and you had a team that wanted to play on public courts, you would have to start your own USTA league.

 

[JRstriker12]

All you have to do is sign up with Ingrid. However, a whole team from indoor can not play as a whole team in outdoor...there is a 2 player rule that prevents that...thereby preventing a dominant team from 'taking over' both leagues in a particular level.

Nobody organizes it because it involves some extra volunteer work. *shrug* I really like outdoor, and I've been one of the people who help organize it...I think it is worth it. If you told Ingrid you were interested, she could help you.

We play at Wakefield Park and Nottoway Park. We also have daytime outdoor leagues, too.

I actually asked Ingrid about outdoor at one point and she basically told me the same thing. I still find it strange that not one single guy has taken the initiative. I'd much prefer to play a full match - as I tend to grind - than get a time-out loss.

However, between tennis, the Kid, and Grad school, I have no extra time, so JRS won't be the one to get it going at this point.

 

[spot]

I think if you talked to the USTA and told them you wanted to have a team out of a public court then they would put you in the appropriate league. I just can't imagine how any club could have 8 4.0 teams in order to have even one 3.5 division. You would have to play against other clubs. And once youa re playing against other clubs then I cant' see how the USTA would be willing to exclude public courts. I mean maybe its just different here- I simply don't see why the USTA would prevent you from signing up as long as you had suitable courts.Just because no one has bothered to organize a team at a public court doesn't mean that they are prohibited from doing so. Raiden just says that he hasn't ever known a team to play out of a public court- not that he has tried to start one and was told by the USTA that it wasn't allowed. And I would be SHOCKED if the USTA did prohibit teams from playing on public courts simply because it would be giving those clubs a license to charge whatever they like to play. I just don't see where USTA would prevent you from playing wherever you like.

 

[raiden031]

Spot, if I understand raiden correctly. THE CLUBS organize the leagues, not just the teams. Each club has its own USTA league and they meet for playoffs between clubs toward the end of the year.

If there are public courts, and you had a team that wanted to play on public courts, you would have to start your own USTA league.

You're absolutely right. This is how it is laid out within tennislink:

2009 Howard - Cattail Adult League (Cattail club)
2009 Howard - Circle D Tennis Club Adult League (Circle D club)
2009 Howard - Columbia Adult League (4 CA-run clubs)

I think if you talked to the USTA and told them you wanted to have a team out of a public court then they would put you in the appropriate league. I just can't imagine how any club could have 8 4.0 teams in order to have even one 3.5 division. You would have to play against other clubs. And once youa re playing against other clubs then I cant' see how the USTA would be willing to exclude public courts. I mean maybe its just different here- I simply don't see why the USTA would prevent you from signing up as long as you had suitable courts.Just because no one has bothered to organize a team at a public court doesn't mean that they are prohibited from doing so. Raiden just says that he hasn't ever known a team to play out of a public court- not that he has tried to start one and was told by the USTA that it wasn't allowed. And I would be SHOCKED if the USTA did prohibit teams from playing on public courts simply because it would be giving those clubs a license to charge whatever they like to play.

I don't think USTA has any jurisdiction over how the local leagues are run (other than ensuring they follow Nationals/Sectional/District rules). So they don't give a crap if you try to run a team from a public court to enter a club-run league and are denied. Pretty much the club runs the league within the USTA framework and if the club wants to manage courts for league play, thats their choice. However once the league season is over and it comes time for districts, the USTA district now has jurisdiction to ensure fairness in who qualifies for districts and so they have inter-league playoffs.

 

[Ronaldo]

Not sure how many private clubs are in most cities, but we have had several close and the players needed to play independently. This is an outdoor league. The private clubs may not have enough players for each level or anyone willing to captain a team. If you want to play, start your own team.

 

[Topaz]

I don't think USTA has any jurisdiction over how the local leagues are run (other than ensuring they follow Nationals/Sectional/District rules). So they don't give a crap if you try to run a team from a public court to enter a club-run league and are denied. Pretty much the club runs the league within the USTA framework and if the club wants to issue courts for league play, thats their choice.

Ok, I'm coming into this late...so you might have already answered this...what about your coordinator? In our area, the coordinator does all the scheduling of matches. If a team from a public court signed up and paid whatever fees to play, the coordinator would schedule them against the club teams, just like anyone else...right? Or, does your coordinator not do the scheduling?

I'm kind of glad the clubs only rent us space...makes me realize what a good job our coordinator is doing!

 

[Topaz]

I actually asked Ingrid about outdoor at one point and she basically told me the same thing. I still find it strange that not one single guy has taken the initiative. I'd much prefer to play a full match - as I tend to grind - than get a time-out loss.

However, between tennis, the Kid, and Grad school, I have no extra time, so JRS won't be the one to get it going at this point.

This is how we did it...put up a bunch of flyers, advertising the excellent points of playing evening outdoor (two hours of play! cheaper fees! always done by 9pm!), and collected a bunch of names. Then, when we had enough names, we contacted people, got them signed up, and divided them into teams.

In my first year of outdoor, there was my team, and my friend's team. That was it. It has seen some nice growth every year...though it is still a small league (but that is one of the nice parts I think). Whoever wins advances to districts just like the indoor teams. And the competition is just as good. I think we had five teams in the 3.5 league last year.

So, I know you are busy - not saying that you should necessarily do this, but we certainly do have different leagues, we do play on public outdoor courts (that are reserved by our coordinator for our matches), and we get more than 90 minutes of play. As long as we have so many evening indoor adult teams and leagues, the restricted time limit is not going to change. I think it is a miracle Ingrid gets everything scheduled as it is!

 

[raiden031]

Ok, I'm coming into this late...so you might have already answered this...what about your coordinator? In our area, the coordinator does all the scheduling of matches. If a team from a public court signed up and paid whatever fees to play, the coordinator would schedule them against the club teams, just like anyone else...right? Or, does your coordinator not do the scheduling?

I'm kind of glad the clubs only rent us space...makes me realize what a good job our coordinator is doing!

First let me start off mentioning that I am not sure if each of the three leagues I mentioned have their own coordinators or whether its the same coordinators for all three leagues (those within my county).

I know that there are two coordinators who work together to schedule matches for the main league in my area. All matches are played at the private clubs as mentioned. I have no clue what would happen if a team tried to join the league with a home facility that isn't run by the club, but I'm willing to bet they would be told no.

There are like 1200 people playing in this one league, so its not like we need to allow outside teams to compete. Although the Circle D league only has one skill division and probably a small number of teams, and even that league is not having any outside teams compete within it.

 

[Ronaldo]

This really bites. Hope the private clubs never get the notion to exclude independent teams. We could have two leagues with each sending teams to district playoffs. This may also exclude teams from outside the immediate area. Currently have teams from 35-40 miles away.

 

[spot]

Honestly- if you aren't willing to even call the coordinator to find out what the deal is then your club is making a mistake by not charging you even more.

 

[Ronaldo]

Honestly- if you aren't willing to even call the coordinator to find out what the deal is then your club is making a mistake by not charging you even more.

Yes, after captaining an independent team, a breakdown of every charge was made and presented to each player prior to joining the team. The only fly in the ointment involved indoor court charges by the host club in case of rain.

 

[saram]

We pay for court time and balls for USTA matches but we do not pay any amount just for fielding a team.

Court time if needed for rain matches--but during State Championship competition--the players to not have to cover the court time charges should an outdoor tournament suddenly find itself indoors.

 

[raiden031]

Honestly- if you aren't willing to even call the coordinator to find out what the deal is then your club is making a mistake by not charging you even more.

Even if I wanted to avoid paying steep club fees, I couldn't even find enough players to form my own team anyways, nor do I have the time to show up to the matches in which I'm not playing.

 

[spot]

Right- you would rather pay whatever the club charges rather than take any steps to find an alternative. I think you are lucky the club isn't charging you more and I think they are completely justified in charging what they do.

 

[Ronaldo]

Court time if needed for rain matches--but during State Championship competition--the players to not have to cover the court time charges should an outdoor tournament suddenly find itself indoors.

And a free lunch buffet

 

[raiden031]

Right- you would rather pay whatever the club charges rather than take any steps to find an alternative. I think you are lucky the club isn't charging you more and I think they are completely justified in charging what they do.

There are 1200 people unwilling to take these steps. At what point is the club not justified in charging these fees? I can't help it that the average income of a league player here is probably over $250K/year. If they can afford it, they will pay it. Its people like me who will start dropping off first because the fees get too high. So if 200 people decide not to play this year, is that enough to say the fee increase is unjust?

Whats most unfair is that people who play 10 matches pay the exact same amount as people who play 1 match.

 

[spot]

Obviously the club is justified in charging those fees until people are tired enough of the fees to start looking for alternatives. I mean as long as people are happily paying and don't care enough to look for someplace cheaper then I really don't see the problem. I just don't see what the big deal is about starting a new team at a public facility if so many people are upset about the fees.

 

[raiden031]

Obviously the club is justified in charging those fees until people are tired enough of the fees to start looking for alternatives. I mean as long as people are happily paying and don't care enough to look for someplace cheaper then I really don't see the problem. I just don't see what the big deal is about starting a new team at a public facility if so many people are upset about the fees.

I haven't heard anybody else complaining, probably because they are rich. I'm complaining because the club league fee increased from $20 to $50 in one year. That is a 150% increase.

 

[Topaz]

I haven't heard anybody else complaining, probably because they are rich. I'm complaining because the club league fee increased from $20 to $50 in one year. That is a 150% increase.

FWIW, I'd be complaining, too! Holy moly! I thought it was bad that private lessons increased from 65 to 70 at my club!

Ah yes, I can back Raiden up on the fact that many people who play in our greater area have money to *buuuuuurn*. For me, I *hate* losing to the 'bored rich housewives'...they are better than me, though, because they can play a lot more (during the day) and aren't already exhausted by the time they hit the court. Ah well, I tell myself, I'll catch up with them someday!