Dominic Thiem Racquet Specs

Mats W said something that resonated with me at least: the top players play within themselves (or something like that), meaning they play well within their comfort zone.

I really like Thiem. That being said, he reminds me of Gulbis a few years back. Massive pace, and massive amounts of energy expended to produce those shots. Perhaps also a better moving Berdych, but still. Like dr325i said, that's not going to hold up against the top (3-4) players. Too little margin for error.
 
zalive said:
Seems that it took many years for badminton community to learn that there exists better yet completely different tactical approach.
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I'm not a badminton expert, but afaik this is not a tactical development per se, but one that has emerged with the technical and athletic development of players. Trying for a different type of serve, is more likely to give the opponent the upper hand, as f.inst. their overhead/smash abilities is much, much better than before. Afaik, ie :-)

I watched a few of the matches in the Thomas cup finals between Indonesia and Denmark, and was blown away by the diversity and speed of the game, court useage, and overhead speed.

 
smalahove said:
I'm not a badminton expert, but afaik this is not a tactical development per se, but one that has emerged with the technical and athletic development of players.
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No. Players from 10-15 years ago had great technical and athletic ability just as now. But they were taught to play a different game back then.

Look tennis matches that Roger played 10 years ago and you'll see how tennis has changed. Back then he put a lot more effort (and full swings) into his shots, producing less depth. What has changed? His racquet, of course, and tactical approach to the game.

If he stayed with 90' racquet and game from 200x's he would have never gotten back to the top (no. 2). But he did surpass his inevitably dropping physical ability by upgrading his game.

Tennis evolves in continuity. Co-poly strings introduced the need to re-think not just the shots and setups, but also a tactical part. What I'm not certain is if there's something similar that happened to badminton as well. But I'm not sure what could have changed that much (provided they're still allowed to play with natural feather shuttlecocks - I should check this).
 
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zalive said:
No. Players from 10-15 years ago had great technical and athletic ability just as now. But they were taught to play a different game back then.
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Look at the overhead speed from this 2002 Thomas Cup final:


Clearly slower than 2016, to me at least. The shuttlecock clearly slows down on towards the floor region, making it possible to reach it. Nowadays, they hammer them down.
 
I see nailing even in 2002. video on some occasions. Tho there is a difference. But even this match is not like matches from the past that I recall.
The fact is, in badminton you can easily manipulate the speed of a shuttlecock by cork part. It's possible that tournaments nowadays use faster shuttlecocks than once (with faster cork) to keep the game more dynamic. It could then explain what has happened with tactical approach.
Amateur players plastic shuttlecocks are sold with mark of its speed - red (fastest), blue (moderate) and green (slowest). But pro's use feather (I see now it's still feather) because plastic ones deform too much when nailed down, allowing too much speed.
 
zalive said:
LMAO
@dr325i : considering how much Novak has earned so far, this particular spelling of his name seems to be legit :)
(for the majority of folks not acustomed to Serbian language, novac means money on Serbian lmao)
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;)
Now you're going to make Fedal whiners whine all over again...
 
smalahove said:
Mats W said something that resonated with me at least: the top players play within themselves (or something like that), meaning they play well within their comfort zone.

I really like Thiem. That being said, he reminds me of Gulbis a few years back. Massive pace, and massive amounts of energy expended to produce those shots. Perhaps also a better moving Berdych, but still. Like dr325i said, that's not going to hold up against the top (3-4) players. Too little margin for error.
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Mats is an idiot and I would not go by what he says...
 
Absolutely get what you mean , i caught the highlights on youtube (shorter than i would like) and there were a few where i just had to rewind and just thought how ridiculous they were.

I agree with another poster about his wrists too, he has a very loopy action, with strong rotation through the wrist, but by god those forehands were absolute bombs! It wasnt like delpo either where the ball was being slapped around , full control and spin as well
 
Also remember watching an interview on youtube, and also a written one with bresnik , and he said hes never heard a noise like when thiem hits the ball , he referred to it as a crack of thunder if i remember correctly. Also said he is an absolute beast , and trains so so hard, never asks when a session finishes , just gets on with it and wants to improve.

The goffin match also may be a little deceptive as goffin is good but also provides limited power of his own , so when thiem injected the power and pace it stood out more? just a theory.
But some of the winners brought a grin and wow on haha.
Some of the djokovic match was down to nerves i feel, but also djokovi'c's experience and knowing what to do and when. He just knows in every match at the moment he will win if he does the right things.
 
Jamesm182 said:
Also remember watching an interview on youtube, and also a written one with bresnik , and he said hes never heard a noise like when thiem hits the ball , he referred to it as a crack of thunder if i remember correctly. Also said he is an absolute beast , and trains so so hard, never asks when a session finishes , just gets on with it and wants to improve.

The goffin match also may be a little deceptive as goffin is good but also provides limited power of his own , so when thiem injected the power and pace it stood out more? just a theory.
But some of the winners brought a grin and wow on haha.
Some of the djokovic match was down to nerves i feel, but also djokovi'c's experience and knowing what to do and when. He just knows in every match at the moment he will win if he does the right things.
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That's what I was pointing out. Is a loss to the Joker a real loss at his stage. I think. Not.
So we can nix that one.
Then if u want to see another forehand clinic just go to the Zverev match. It's on there as well. So there are no excuses.
This kid is the new big star. Make no doubt it
 
zalive said:
I think he should be working on figuring out what he must do to be able to beat Kei ;)
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Kei will be just another notch on his belt in the upcoming months to come.
When that is yiur main challenge, to beat guys in the top 6 you know u have arrived.
More importantly he has jumped over Aussy ****** bag Kgyriis. A really spit in the face to that low life.
And he's also leap frogged over Raonic who us become a Tomas Berdych (great but not amongst the greatest category). I like Raonic but he's one dry dud of a personality. So Thiem is our man. He outplays yen all , us class, and is a beacon of positive energy. Say h to our new champion.
 
danbrenner said:
this makes it all the more unbelievable. it looks like hes wielding a toothpick out there.
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My highly scientific way to measure swingweight on video is to watch what the racquet does as the player brings the racquet to a stop at the end of their stroke. If you watch someone like Verdasco after contact on serve his racquet doesn't cross over like you would think and stops abruptly, his groundstrokes follow through is all very punctual.


Compare to Murray (before back injury) or Djokovic and their motion on follow through indicates more load to slow down. It looks more like they are swinging kettle bells than majorette batons


Fitness dictates how fast you can swing what weight, so 345sw look reasonable in comparison, looks to have a similar pull as Federer.

 
danbrenner said:
Kei will be just another notch on his belt in the upcoming months to come.
When that is yiur main challenge, to beat guys in the top 6 you know u have arrived.
More importantly he has jumped over Aussy ****** bag Kgyriis. A really spit in the face to that low life.
And he's also leap frogged over Raonic who us become a Tomas Berdych (great but not amongst the greatest category). I like Raonic but he's one dry dud of a personality. So Thiem is our man. He outplays yen all , us class, and is a beacon of positive energy. Say h to our new champion.
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Kyrgios is couple of years younger than Thiem AFAIK. TBH I expect more from him than from Thiem in the future, but who knows? Time will tell. Zverev is a potential also, yet younger player. And many more promising...for our Coric I'm not certain ATM, he must sort out his search for his perfect racquet to be able to go much more offensive. He started as a defensive player but on the tour he realized it's not enough. But so far I don't see new Roger, Rafa or Novak among all the new dudes. Again, time will tell.

And as for Kei, there's a reason why he lost to Kei. And this reason is a gameplan for which Dominic hasn't got an answer so far. So, it's possible for him to win over Kei if Kei plays a lousy match and beats himself. But if he's able to produce similar game to what he produced in Rome, I don't see current Thiem standing a chance. As I said, he must work on some new gameplan and qualities and learn how to play a better defensive tennis. Because his shots require more preparation that he would be ever given by they guys from the very top. You may not necessary realize it, but both Kei and Novak exposed Thiem's weaknesses - so now everyone on tour knows what has to be done to beat him. Of course, not that many can play what it takes, and many of them will be able to produce it only on their good days. But don't doubt, there will be some lower ranked players that will be able to beat Dominic by executing a good tactical approach against him.

Again...time will tell. And Dominic does have a chance to work on his weaknesses. This is a must for now for him, he has FH, he has BH, he needs to work on defensive situations more now, with less time for preparation, and especially on reading opponents shots in advance, to buy himself more time. This is what greats do, if he wants to become one, he must learn the same stuff that they already know. FH and BH are simply not enough.
 
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As the wise sage used to say in decades past. (Britney Spears ).
"Oops he's done it again".

That's another great win for the "Dominator"
He took out Fed today after going down one set. Great performance.
 
danbrenner said:
As the wise sage used to say in decades past. (Britney Spears ).
"Oops he's done it again".

That's another great win for the "Dominator"
He took out Fed today after going down one set. Great performance.
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I think you could tell how much nerves were affecting his play, especially in the second set after being 5-0 up, and yet he managed to overcome that and get the win. That experience should make it easier for him next the time he has to face Fed or any of the top 4.
 
Consider that Roger is not quite being himelf since injury. If he doesn't lift the level of his presentations he would be fighting to stay in top 10 by the end of the year.
 
Pleb123 said:
I think you could tell how much nerves were affecting his play, especially in the second set after being 5-0 up, and yet he managed to overcome that and get the win. That experience should make it easier for him next the time he has to face Fed or any of the top 4.
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The Dominator has made his mark again.
We're looking at te most perfect player amongst the new generation. His weapons are just better that everyone else's.
We are in for some great tennis in the near future. The road ahead is so bright, I need to wear shades
 
Hey Dan,

Just watched highlights (didn't watch a match) against Roger, and I'm very pleased with Thiem's game. Some excellent volleying there, high quality overall game. Still he should have lost in two sets if it wasn't for Roger's mistakes, but regardless of this I like very much what I see, this is much more than just hitting the cr*p out of FHs and BHs.
 
you know what i really love.. i cant get over how Thiem can get such net clearance on his shots with an 18m stick. This is kinda the first time ive seen someone hit with this much arc with 18 mains.
 
great points Zalive on Thiem.

I like the guys maturity in the younger lot and his beautiful one handed backhand but I'm not so sure about his forehand.Also he stays so far behind the baseline opening up angles for his opponents esp as you have mentioned no chance against guys like Novak and Andy even aging Roger.

Kyrgios has the tools and stays close to baseline and results already shows as well.He is exciting to watch as well something different from other guys which is good for Tennis but his movement is suspect.Kei has a great backhand,movement but at critical movements esp high quality matches with Novak and others his forehand goes away and it only takes few misses at critical juncture.

I really feel bad for Dimitrov as the guy has great forehand,good serve and good backhand..everything but I think it was a big mistake to go to a new racquet with 18*17 pattern with no proven Grandslam winner with that kind of pattern.Something is wrong with that pattern as it has a inconsistent string bed.

Zverev is great young talent and haven't seen enough but seems to have a great mental toughness even at this young age..ala..Novak,Rafa etc.

Coric has great backhand but forehand is not a weapon which is badly needed at the high level mens pro circuit.

Hopefully some new talent breaks through soon, may be some young Americans Fritz and others as I'm being selfish here.
 
bkr said:
I really feel bad for Dimitrov as the guy has great forehand,good serve and good backhand..everything but I think it was a big mistake to go to a new racquet with 18*17 pattern with no proven Grandslam winner with that kind of pattern.Something is wrong with that pattern as it has a inconsistent string bed.

.
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Trust me, Dimitrovs issues is not with his racquets.. Its somewhere in his head only...
 
bkr said:
great points Zalive on Thiem.

I like the guys maturity in the younger lot and his beautiful one handed backhand but I'm not so sure about his forehand.Also he stays so far behind the baseline opening up angles for his opponents esp as you have mentioned no chance against guys like Novak and Andy even aging Roger.

Kyrgios has the tools and stays close to baseline and results already shows as well.He is exciting to watch as well something different from other guys which is good for Tennis but his movement is suspect.Kei has a great backhand,movement but at critical movements esp high quality matches with Novak and others his forehand goes away and it only takes few misses at critical juncture.

I really feel bad for Dimitrov as the guy has great forehand,good serve and good backhand..everything but I think it was a big mistake to go to a new racquet with 18*17 pattern with no proven Grandslam winner with that kind of pattern.Something is wrong with that pattern as it has a inconsistent string bed.

Zverev is great young talent and haven't seen enough but seems to have a great mental toughness even at this young age..ala..Novak,Rafa etc.

Coric has great backhand but forehand is not a weapon which is badly needed at the high level mens pro circuit.

Hopefully some new talent breaks through soon, may be some young Americans Fritz and others as I'm being selfish here.
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I use the 97S with a 18x17 and no problems with consistency, especially not with a fresh stringjob.
 
SpinToWin said:
I use the 97S with a 18x17 and no problems with consistency, especially not with a fresh stringjob.
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Hey STW, quick question on a side note: in your experience, how do you think the string tensions work out when you compare open patterns versus closed ones? Coming from an open patter (16x19), and since I haven't played much with closed pattern sticks, if I were to play with a 18x20, what tension what I have to play with to emulate same playing style? I play in low 50s in my usual stick. Would my tension need to go up? cc @Mareqnyc as well :)
 
haqqani1777 said:
Hey STW, quick question on a side note: in your experience, how do you think the string tensions work out when you compare open patterns versus closed ones? Coming from an open patter (16x19), and since I haven't played much with closed pattern sticks, if I were to play with a 18x20, what tension what I have to play with to emulate same playing style? I play in low 50s in my usual stick. Would my tension need to go up? cc @Mareqnyc as well :)
Click to expand...
There are more strings in closed patterns so with the same tension the stringbed will be stiffer/deflect less vs open patterns. I usually string 55/53 in 16x19 and 53/51 (or less depending on the string) with 18x20 and then adjust fron there.
 
moon shot said:
Any issues with hybrids or did you go full poly simply for the €?
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I never went for hybrids in this frame, I wanted to switch to full poly to begin with, as the control and spin is a great fit for my game.
haqqani1777 said:
Hey STW, quick question on a side note: in your experience, how do you think the string tensions work out when you compare open patterns versus closed ones? Coming from an open patter (16x19), and since I haven't played much with closed pattern sticks, if I were to play with a 18x20, what tension what I have to play with to emulate same playing style? I play in low 50s in my usual stick. Would my tension need to go up? cc @Mareqnyc as well :)
Click to expand...
It really depends on the exact racquet and how dense the string pattern is, in a Prestige MP I could easily drop the tension by more than 5lbs for instance. In general, tighter string patterns definitely need lower tensions for a similar response, but the right tension is found by trial and error.
 
SpinToWin said:
I use the 97S with a 18x17 and no problems with consistency, especially not with a fresh stringjob.
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I didnn't play long enough but with the short time I have hit with (full poly setup 4g) demo frame some balls were launching at least for me which wasn't happening with RF97 (16*19) demoed at the same time.

I've also seen lot of Dimitrov matches where he was launching balls when he is set on the forehand wing which wasn't that frequent with his older prostaff probably older frame has a smaller head size not making any difference.I have a feeling Dimitrov confidence went downhill after switching to this racquet and I'm not so sure that wilson lab testing is translating into real world success.

Alsoo looking at leaked newprostaff pics they are introducing with 18*16 pattern.Does this mean Roger is going to use that pattern?.I really doubt it knowing Roger way of doing things.Also Roger mentioned in one of his interviews talking about Dimitrov that may be racquet is could be one of the reasons not sure what he really means by it.

97S would have been a great frame if they had either 18*20 or 16*19 pattern.
 
zalive said:
I'm thinking about table tennis. There's a different game logic present there in pro world. Pro players use fastest setups available, which are also the hardest ones to control. So basically they practice to get control over the fastest paddles, because if they master this (which they must) it gives them advantage, ability to produce speed and spin with least effort. What they play with is hardly controlable for amateur players. So amateur players typically use much slower setups compared to pro setups because they fare better with such.
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No, the real top players, the Chinese male players all use sticky rubber on forehand side, they are defiantly less speedy and more spin(different bounce too) compare to what second tier players play with.
 
bkr said:
97S would have been a great frame if they had either 18*20 or 16*19 pattern.
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18/17 is great with 93 inch for Dimitrov. To emulate the same feeling, 97 must be at least 18x20. But then S would be redundant.
 
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Readers said:
No, the real top players, the Chinese male players all use sticky rubber on forehand side, they are defiantly less speedy and more spin(different bounce too) compare to what second tier players play with.
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It's relative, they all use very fast blades AFAIK. Besides I tried playing with DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, and what I can tell is this sponge has incredible dynamic range of speed. Slow is really slow, but when you speed it up it's lightning. So even if rubber like Tenergy is faster, those new chinese sticky rubbers are nowhere near 'classic' sticky chinese rubbers in terms of speed. You can't really play a top TT with a slow setup. Because you can't allow to swing too much, it would take away too much time. Take into account that top Chinese play near the table, so yeah, while they take away time from their opponent, they also have less time themselves to react to opponent's ball. With really slowish setup it simply wouldn't work to provide the needed pace. What I'm trying to say, they may be differences, but it's all still on the fast side.
 
Found the table tennis insight really interesting as I used to play a lot - including competitively - way back when; maybe there should be a TTTT section?
 
zalive said:
It's relative, they all use very fast blades AFAIK. Besides I tried playing with DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, and what I can tell is this sponge has incredible dynamic range of speed. Slow is really slow, but when you speed it up it's lightning. So even if rubber like Tenergy is faster, those new chinese sticky rubbers are nowhere near 'classic' sticky chinese rubbers in terms of speed. You can't really play a top TT with a slow setup. Because you can't allow to swing too much, it would take away too much time. Take into account that top Chinese play near the table, so yeah, while they take away time from their opponent, they also have less time themselves to react to opponent's ball. With really slowish setup it simply wouldn't work to provide the needed pace. What I'm trying to say, they may be differences, but it's all still on the fast side.
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Yes the TT pros all use fast carbon blades. The Chinese Rubber is real sticky compared to the Euro stuff. It's really style and personal preference. I've used DHS Hurricane 2 and my opinion was that it would take a ton of practice to get used to generating the ball I can generate with Euro rubbers. I personally use a soft tibhar blade and while it is pretty fast, it't the perfect intermediate blade IMO.
 
National, Provincial and Commercial H3 Neo are very much different as far as speed and bounce are concerned. Still, TG3 Provincial with blue sponge is my favourite when it comes to HH II and HK II blades. Adding carbon to these blades probably makes them a tad faster but more hollow in feel, except for HH III, because the carbon there is mono, in the core of the blade. On the other hand, if you don't hit hard, Tenergy 05 is fine, otherwise it bottoms out. The new generation rubbers for the 40+ ball, say, H8 and Skyline 6, have more bounce (53 degree on the Xiom scale, measured with durometer on the blade) but seem to have preserved their tackiness.

BTW, I don't see any parallels between TT and big tennis. TT players prefer fast setups, tennis players rely more on control - in most cases power translates to lack of control. Many pros play with Blade 18x20, one or two with Blade S, and no one with Blade 16x19 - because they are too fast. When playing with Prince, Ferrer preferred 820 Power level Tour, not some 1000 or 1300 PL racket.
 
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Readers said:
No, the real top players, the Chinese male players all use sticky rubber on forehand side, they are defiantly less speedy and more spin(different bounce too) compare to what second tier players play with.
Click to expand...

But they have all gears, i.e., the more you push the faster the rubbers become, virtually no limits to the speed if you have developed the proper skills.
 
dr325i said:
Ok, calm down. Those FHs are nice but not effective against the top players for the long run. They spend too much energy, unnecessarily IMO.
He was impressive against Goffin and zero in his next match
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Exactly, he played a superb first set against rafa in the Barcelona final. There is no question his forehand was stunning especially when he kicked out his serve wide to rafa's forehand and painted lines especially on break points, but he missed more than he made eventually because he was going for too much and fizzled out in set 2. He is physically strong, but even though his core and lower back can handle it for now I am not sure his kick serve and sometimes ultra defensive strategy is the correct approach for all surfaces especially as he grows older, plus he stands too far back on occasion (though his % first serve return won was the best in Barcelona). Still, no question he is an exciting talent and a terrific ball striker but he has to manage himself and his play to contend on all surfaces.
Rafa has praised his game in the past many times and for good reason.
 
Dominic is a nice humble young men that works hard but I feel his game has limitations to compete against these top guys Roger,Novak and Rafa to bring the best day in and day out.He stays too far back so right away he was playing into Rafa's strength, yes he can win some matches like the one against Andy but it's hard when you stay too far back and cann't put away a ball that lands little short.

I also think Dominic has a great backhand and very good serve but his forehand is probably the weaker (relative to his strengths and other forehands on tour before someone attacks me :) ) part of his game but again everyone has one wing that's not so great.In mens game strong forehand goes a long way as most of the time (60 to 70%) they are hitting forehands.Some of these guys have good forehands and not great forehands which shows up in big finals where great forehand under pressure goes a long way to make the difference considering the margins are so small.

Roger and Rafa built their games around those great forehands ( 31 grandslams together...great straight arm forehands).I always felt Murray had everything but his forehand isn't at the level of Roger,Rafa,Delpo,Sampras or Gonzalez which really hurt him in many grandslam finals.Novak is probably the one who is good at both wings even if his forehand is not at these guys level but very close since he takes the ball early and stays close to base line.

I really love to see young guys coming through as Tennis needs new faces even though I love all these great older championions.Good news is Dominic will only get better and I thought he hit his forehand great in Murray's match.Zverev is a another great potential with strong mental game.Kyrgios is one guy that has everything and stays close to baseline and has the tools to take out these guys.
 
He needs to (be able to) follow up on the net. And he needs to find a better balance between being patient and aggressive. Nadal gave him a masterclass yesterday: defend the barrage of hard baseline hitting at first, waiting for the right moment (when Thiem either made a less than stellar shot or was tired) - and _then_ bring the hammer down.
 
smalahove said:
He needs to (be able to) follow up on the net. And he needs to find a better balance between being patient and aggressive. Nadal gave him a masterclass yesterday: defend the barrage of hard baseline hitting at first, waiting for the right moment (when Thiem either made a less than stellar shot or was tired) - and _then_ bring the hammer down.
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Previous year Thiem slaughtered Nadal on clay. Anyway, Nadal also had some luck pulling the first set yesterday, and Nadal was able to profit from Thiem's insane strikes and that was Thiem's tactical weakness.
 
bkr said:
Dominic is a nice humble young men that works hard but I feel his game has limitations to compete against these top guys Roger,Novak and Rafa to bring the best day in and day out.He stays too far back so right away he was playing into Rafa's strength, yes he can win some matches like the one against Andy but it's hard when you stay too far back and cann't put away a ball that lands little short.

I also think Dominic has a great backhand and very good serve but his forehand is probably the weaker (relative to his strengths and other forehands on tour before someone attacks me :) ) part of his game but again everyone has one wing that's not so great.In mens game strong forehand goes a long way as most of the time (60 to 70%) they are hitting forehands.Some of these guys have good forehands and not great forehands which shows up in big finals where great forehand under pressure goes a long way to make the difference considering the margins are so small.

Roger and Rafa built their games around those great forehands ( 31 grandslams together...great straight arm forehands).I always felt Murray had everything but his forehand isn't at the level of Roger,Rafa,Delpo,Sampras or Gonzalez which really hurt him in many grandslam finals.Novak is probably the one who is good at both wings even if his forehand is not at these guys level but very close since he takes the ball early and stays close to base line.

I really love to see young guys coming through as Tennis needs new faces even though I love all these great older championions.Good news is Dominic will only get better and I thought he hit his forehand great in Murray's match.Zverev is a another great potential with strong mental game.Kyrgios is one guy that has everything and stays close to baseline and has the tools to take out these guys.
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(Cough)...Wawrinka'sdoneokay...(Cough,Cough)Thiem is forehand dominant btw...
 
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