Dominic Thiem tested negative for coronavirus after returning to Austria

[Gary Duane]

China may indeed by lying, but to compare its situation to America makes no sense.

No deaths in two months doesn't stretch credulity all that much. It was pretty much the situation here until one person died yesterday.

I mostly trust Australia. I mostly don't trust China. It's a relative thing.

As for the US, or my state, the less said the better. Stupidity rules here.

 

[Meles]

Even if we grant that these comorbidities account for a sizable % of the total COVID deaths everything I've read indicates that the opposite is more likely, that the actual toll is in fact undercounted due to lack of testing, false negatives, etc. Since I've already talked about Russia let's turn our attention to Brazil which is set to surpass the US by August or so:

Brazilians flock to beach as WHO says country undercounting coronavirus surge

Brazil reached more than a million confirmed coronavirus cases and 50,000 deaths over the weekend as throngs of people swarmed Rio de Janeiro beaches, but the World Health Organization said on Monday that even more cases were likely going uncounted.

www.reuters.com

And that's barely scratching the surface. The "purpose" here is to save lives, and while we can debate whether the current restrictions make sense there's no doubt that this virus kills more people and spreads faster than your everyday flu. The latter is the truly dangerous part, which is why even healthy younger people like Novak should be careful even though he and his family themselves may be safe from the worst effects of the disease.

wow Brazil is going to catch up to the US? That's not great given they've had months to prepare. Still Brazil should be better than much of Europe. The US is not on the greatest trend, but seems like it's gonna fall short of the worst areas of Europe. The north east Corredor of the US got absolutely hammered and probably the worst region in the world.

I don't know why am posting I'll fall asleep soon and then this thread will be deleted by the time I wake up.

 

[jm1980]

And North Korea is still reporting zero cases, which is an absolute farce. Guess you need at least one dictatorship to make China look better in comparison. Too bad it happens to be arguably the most frightening totalitarian regime in history.

North Korea actually having zero cases wouldn't even be that extraordinary considering how isolated it is.

 

[Gary Duane]

I mean, you questioned China's 3 deaths per million people. Taiwan is at 0.3 deaths per million, Singapore is at 4. It's also in line with countries like S. Korea (5), Japan (8), Malaysia (4)

So the figure of 3 deaths per million people isn't suspicious in an of itself.

In fact, I would like to believe you are right. I really would. Because then we could study what China did and learn. I just don't think that figure makes sense in one of the most densely populated countries in the world. I would accept a low number, but not 3. I am far more inclined to trust the numbers of the other places you mentioned.

Regardless, we should be studying how much of Asia is handling this.

 

[jm1980]

In fact, I would like to believe you are right. I really would. Because then we could study what China did and learn. I just don't think that figure makes sense in one of the most densely populated countries in the world. I would accept a low number, but not 3. I am far more inclined to trust the numbers of the other places you mentioned.

Regardless, we should be studying how much of Asia is handling this.

I understand your mistrust of China's numbers, but what I'm trying to say is that we don't have to look just at China anymore. There are many countries who have handled this better than the US and Europe. Mostly Asian countries but let's not forget Australia and New Zealand

 

[Meles]

I said that I think so but I'm not sure and I wouldn't organize a global event in case I'm wrong. Stop putting words in my mouth. There are so many question marks around this "virus" that only a completely naive person would take it for granted. Check the sources yourself, collect the data and only then make up your mind (but not from the news media, they tell you EXACTLY what they want you to hear).

I was shocked at a pole in the US and how different the responses between the two parties were on Covid and what to do. Very very very political.

 

[jm1980]

I was shocked at a pole in the US and how different the responses between the two parties were on Covid and what to do. Very very very political.

Literally everything gets politicized in the US these days. Very sad state of affairs

 

[Meles]

I understand your mistrust of China's numbers, but what I'm trying to say is that we don't have to look just at China anymore. There are many countries who have handled this better than the US and Europe. Mostly Asian countries but let's not forget Australia and New Zealand

There is kind of a seasonality affect. and we see it now picking up in South America and South Africa. Kudos to Australia handling it and Nip it in the bud and New Zealand, They weren't going to Get hit hard until winter came closer. To their credit they have been very vigilant and kept it getting off the ground but they've had a lot of warning looking at the US and Europe. I'm pretty confident if we'd copied the Asian countries, we would've done fine. And that's called masks and being a trained Germafobe.

 

[Gary Duane]

I understand your mistrust of China's numbers, but what I'm trying to say is that we don't have to look just at China anymore. There are many countries who have handled this better than the US and Europe. Mostly Asian countries but let's not forget Australia and New Zealand

I don't understand your point? My point was about China only. My point is that as bad as it's been in Europe, I think the contrast painted between China and other places has been exaggerated. If I were to point to a couple places I think have been excellent, I'd point to Taiwan and Singapore.

If your point has been that the response in Europe and the US has been a disaster, we have no disagreement.

Why do I write about this stuff? Because my job was instantly destroyed in around 2 weeks. It's not coming back. It will be years before people will sit down at a piano and play for each other, taking turns.

For the record, I always hope for the best. When I heard about Novak's tournament, I hoped for a good result. I hoped people would not get sick. I thought it could not work, and obviously it was a huge mistake, but I still wished for the best. When Sweden plowed forward with it's open policy, I rooted for Sweden. Why not? If the results had been good, it would have been hope for many other places.

So I hoped Novak would have a success. Every success means tennis may start again. Why hope against that?

But it was still horribly stupid.

 

[NonP]

I was onto this faster than almost anyone I know. I discovered this site early on:

Experience

experience.arcgis.com

I saw the way things were done, and it was excellent. Almost everyday it was improved. The stats were first rate. A short while before she was fired the data was improved form the last month to the onset of the virus. That's how I finally got the history right. She was so painstaking that each day all the new data was carefully transferred to the correct dates, and then you could see exactly when people died rather then just the date someone got the newest numbers, always as much as 3 weeks old.

I saw something was up when charts were cut to only 30 days. Data started disappearing.

Her is her new site. She is FL's worst nightmare. She's a hero of mine.

Exactly. Anywhere in which the leaders can suppress information, deaths and cases are low. Hmm - I wonder why that is?

So does she run that site by herself or is she just one of the contributors? Anyhoo I do think most state agencies or most government employees at any rate try to do the best job they can. It's really the leadership or lack thereof that determines the (un)reliability of these numbers.

And it's indeed been interesting to see how each country has been responding to the pandemic, which brings me to....

wow Brazil is going to catch up to the US? That's not great given they've had months to prepare. Still Brazil should be better than much of Europe. The US is not on the greatest trend, but seems like it's gonna fall short of the worst areas of Europe. The north east Corredor of the US got absolutely hammered and probably the worst region in the world.

I don't know why am posting I'll fall asleep soon and then this thread will be deleted by the time I wake up.

Count on Bolsonaro to outdo Trump in sheer hubris and stupidity. And it's not just right-wingers that are screwing this up. AMLO buried his head in the sand for weeks and Mexico has been paying the price ever since.

And yeah, I actually thought this thread might survive but it just got revived a couple hrs ago. Not pointing fingers at anyone, though. It was good while it lasted.

North Korea actually having zero cases wouldn't even be that extraordinary considering how isolated it is.

It's practically impossible, or at least that seems to be the expert consensus. You must understand NK despite its isolation keeps its own diplomatic corps around the world and just one slipup is all it takes to introduce the virus into a population. It's 99.9% certain the Kim regime is lying.

 

[Raul_SJ]

In fact, I would like to believe you are right. I really would. Because then we could study what China did and learn. I just don't think that figure makes sense in one of the most densely populated countries in the world. I would accept a low number, but not 3

There was a recent headline that Chinese officials were extremely concerned of a second wave.
And yet we are also supposed to believe the Chinese numbers of 3 deaths in 2 months?!

How can these numbers be taken seriously?

 

[Raul_SJ]

It is extremely difficult to conceal or miss covid deaths in America. The criteria for counting covid deaths is very generous. Anyone even suspected of it can be added to the tally.

The fact that deaths from heart disease, cancer and other diseases have drastically fallen during covid also supports this.

So let us put aside this silly notion that covid deaths are being undercounted.

Maybe that type of underreporting can happen in China. But not in America.
__________________

Ideally, people would have been tested before they died or after. But restrictions on tests and other considerations are preventing that in some cases.

Now, if someone died from pneumonia, respiratory distress or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and had exhibited coronavirus symptoms, their certificate will list COVID-19 as a presumed contributing factor, what’s known as comorbidity.

Minnesota follows the lead of that federal agency and advised the state’s medical community of the change in practice on Friday.

While some people and public health experts say it will provide a fuller picture of how lethal the disease is, others call it irresponsible and contend it will artificially inflate numbers.

 

[blablavla]

If the media formed 100% of the story, what we get would be horribly distorted, and it is. There is no money in good news. Bad news sells. People don't rubber-neck to watch petty scenery. They do it to look at horrible accidents.

But the people who are running things always have a vested interest in covering up bad news. So you have the media on one hand, blowing everything out of proportion, and leaders on the other, hiding as much as possible. Believe it or not those two opposite forces often result in a fair picture once you weigh both extremes.

Without our aggressive press Trump would cover up the numbers just like they've been covered up in China.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 130,313,463 Cases and 2,842,621 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

China, 3 d/m (deaths per million).

This only proves that China has the most lockdown political system in the nations who are huge powers. The media has little power to unveil anything there. That's what you get when you silence the media.

We've seen in my area what happens with lockdown, what happens when you wait too long to do it, and what happens when you lift it too soon. It's been a disaster. Anyone with a few working brain cells knew this would happen. Now we have lost months of progress and we are in a 2nd wave.

We might have avoided all that if we'd been prepared like the Asian countries/territories that had a head start due to the SARS/MERS outbreak, but that ship has sailed and we need to work with what we've got. Getting on with our lives like the virus is just another flu won't help, as we're seeing in no uncertain terms right now.

[/QUOTE]

let me ask you two questions:
1. who owns the media?
2. do you think media is that independent as they can afford to push agenda that would damage their owners?

 

[Raul_SJ]

Freedom to enjoy one's life in good health would seem to me to be a right that the Chinese do have.

How is Serbian health care system and what type of government do they have?
The system that green-lighted this tournament.
And *possibly* misled an unsuspecting public to think that sitting in the stands was safe. Although hard to believe anyone would not be aware of this.

Serbia Under-Reported COVID-19 Deaths and Infections, Data Shows

Data from the Serbian state’s COVID-19 information system shows that more than twice as many infected patients have died than the authorities announced, and hundreds more people tested positive for the virus in recent days than admitted, BIRN can reveal.

balkaninsight.com

 

[tennis_pro]

The thread is still open. As an interested observer, could you point me to those sources? Or at least tell me what I'm supposed to be looking for?

This thread is still open because I didn't add any sources like the last 2 times. Just look up in google who has the most benefit from covid.

 

[Gary Duane]

let me ask you two questions:
1. who owns the media?

People who are powerful and rich, for the most part.

2. do you think media is that independent as they can afford to push agenda that would damage their owners?

I don't think there is a simple answer. It depends on how serious a threat they become to the interests of the rich and powerful people they work for. In the case of Covid I'm not sure where that power balance comes into play. You have some very powerful people who want things to keep things locked down until they feel things are absolutely under control again, but others who want to roll the dice and unlock things. That's what I see in large part of the US. I think right now FL is as open as Sweden. The US has 73% of the deaths per capita as Sweden, and I judge Sweden to be farther along in recovery. I don't think the info we get in the US is so much manipulated in the end by power as just warped by stupidity.

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/people.com/health/health-care-worker-15-friends-get-coronavirus-florida-bar/?amp=true She and her 15 friends all got covid-19 after just one night at a bar.

makes me think of uruguay's (now famous) Carmela...

Half of Uruguay's coronavirus cases traced to a single guest at a society party

A glamorous wedding left 44 guests with Covid-19 after a fashion designer attended despite having had a fever and just arriving from Spain

www.theguardian.com

 

[Deleted member 733170]

How do you know the Chinese want freedoms? Or which ones they would choose if they were asked?

We don’t know as uttering a peep means you get sent off to the asbestos mine.

 

[Meles]

So does she run that site by herself or is she just one of the contributors? Anyhoo I do think most state agencies or most government employees at any rate try to do the best job they can. It's really the leadership or lack thereof that determines the (un)reliability of these numbers.

And it's indeed been interesting to see how each country has been responding to the pandemic, which brings me to....



Count on Bolsonaro to outdo Trump in sheer hubris and stupidity. And it's not just right-wingers that are screwing this up. AMLO buried his head in the sand for weeks and Mexico has been paying the price ever since.

And yeah, I actually thought this thread might survive but it just got revived a couple hrs ago. Not pointing fingers at anyone, though. It was good while it lasted.



It's practically impossible, or at least that seems to be the expert consensus. You must understand NK despite its isolation keeps its own diplomatic corps around the world and just one slipup is all it takes to introduce the virus into a population. It's 99.9% certain the Kim regime is lying.

Jah just looked at Mexico data yesteday and sky rocketing.

Where its really hot what I see is people gathering indoors and so a seasonal twist that is not good. Mexico scary on that count. Keep safe and avoid that. You too @Gary Duane Persian Gulf has been doing this for last month.

 

[jm1980]

Jah just looked at Mexico data yesteday and sky rocketing.

Where its really hot what I see is people gathering indoors and so a seasonal twist that is not good. Mexico scary on that count. Keep safe and avoid that. You too @Gary Duane Persian Gulf has been doing this for last month.

I talked to someone from Texas who said he would be super safe because of their weather... I don't think he realizes that people actually need to be outside for the weather to make a difference. Summer in Texas just means everyone hides indoors breathing recirculated AC air

 

[Meles]

I talked to someone from Texas who said he would be super sad because of their weather... I don't think he realizes that people actually need to be outside for the weather to make a difference. Summer in Texas just means everyone hides indoors breathing recirculated AC air

That is exactly what the data shows is going on. Probably helped these areas for the initial outbreak, but now its basically winter and everyone indoors a lot. People need to realize what is going on and change behavior, policies etc., to deal with this twist.

 

[octobrina10]

Dominic Thiem was shocked:

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