Don't clay courts get all jacked up?

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Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
You need to understand that you are communicating with someone who swears Rosewall hit 80+ mph slice backhands. Guy is clueless. Everyone who has played on clay knows they are swept, watered and maintained regularly. Everyone also knows this is done between sets of matches on the tour, and in big events.

Obviously, you haven't played much on clay courts. If you did, you'd know that, in most cases, they are not swept or watered regularly, and they're typically not maintained properly.
 
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drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
Obviously, you haven't played much on clay courts. If you did, you'd know that, in most cases, they are not swept or watered regularly, and they're typically not maintained properly.


LMAO!!!

Here is the Tennis Club I literally live at, and am Head Stringer. The club has 23 courts. There are two national clay court events played here, including one international, among many other tournaments. The Solomon Academy is also housed here, and many top players train here year round:

USTA National CLAY COURT Championships (45's) 2007:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=161872

Mariano Puerta, French Open Finalist practicing at the club:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=194299

USTA National CLAY COURT Championships (30's) 2008:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=234408

Elena Dementiava practicing with Solomon at the Club:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=192413

Checket Cup 2008 and 2009 (includes photos of Dodo Cheney, and Joanne Russell)
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=179791

Here is a photo of the Club during one of the finals:
100_5702.jpg



Here I am hitting on one of the courts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYN8oGBlfPA

THE COURTS ARE SWEPT AND WATERED, INCLUDING HAVING THE LINES DONE BETWEEN SETS. They are also regularly maintained througout the day. You could clearly see in many of the photos, the adjacent courts when empty are swept and watered.

Stringing for Rick Leach (9 time grand slam winner and former #1) at this years nationals:
CIMG3484.jpg

You are clueless.
 
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Pidgeon

Semi-Pro
drakulie
just let him be ...

limpinhitter i gave you my point of view as how things are run in clubs here in my country and in ATP...
the things they do in the your so called 'tennisclub' the last 40 years are pretty
******** and show how little they know or care about tennis..
since you aren't really in the mood for accepting the facts that are posted here ;
you keep your opinion and don't reply to posts if you aren't ready to communicate and interact with other pple
 

Pidgeon

Semi-Pro
Pidgeon, perhaps you've mistaken me for one of TT's ubiquitous pimple faced, mouth breathing, 18 year olds who know nothing but pretend they know everything. I've been playing on clay for over 40 years at dozens of private clubs and public parks. I have no need to exaggerate. I say it exactly the way it is. NOT ONCE have I played at any club or park where the courts are swept before and after play, NEVER! Bad bounces are an inherent part of clay court tennis, both because of the lines and imperfections in the surface material. And, I've never seen courts being swept during a pro clay court match, between sets or otherwise, live or on TV.

3601314518_eecf763e0e.jpg

r
 

JohnnyCracker

Semi-Pro
One guy claims that courts are rarely ever swept while everyone else say courts are swept all the time. I don't know what to believe. :confused: On one hand you got everyone else, on the other hand you got this one guy but he got 40+ years of experience watching pro tennis AND playing on dozens of courts. Then, there's some 18 year old pimpled-face kid who knows nothing AND everything. What is the truth?:confused:
 
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zasr4325

Professional
One guy claims that courts are rarely ever swept while everyone else say courts are swept all the time. I don't know what to believe. :confused: On one hand you got everyone else, on the other hand you got this one guy but he got 40+ years of experience watching pro tennis AND playing on dozens of courts. :confused:

don't listen to the other guy, listen to us :). clay courts are swept regularly, and need a lot of work to keep them well maintained. if the pictures and videos that everyone here has posted don't show you that most of us know what we're talking about (especially drakulie) then just look it up on google. you'll find the laundry list of equipment and maintenance that goes into clay courts is pretty extensive, and has to be to stop them wearing down and becoming unplayable.

ps, i just googled "clay court maintenance" and came up with this:
http://www.essortment.com/hobbies/claytenniscour_sajt.htm

thought it was pretty good on explaining basics, but the article is for a private court. usually public ones used regularly in tennis clubs and for match play have to be watered more often than once a day.
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
FWIW...

Around here, they only have green clay, but there are two types of construction both dealing with how they're watered. The first is the older which is surface watered. In my experience, those must be rolled, watered, and swept regularly.

The second type are the new HydraCourts. They are continually watered from underneath through a natural wicking process. They do not need the old maintenance schedule. They are watered continually as needed and the consistency of the surface negates the need for rolling and sweeping like the older courts because it doesn't move as much.

Also, I have belonged to clubs where they were absolutely fanatic about "cleaning" up the court after you played. You were required to sweep it after play. And, and this is more the norm, I have belonged to clubs which pretty much leave it up to the players. This usually means that before you play, if you think it needs sweeping....sweep it.

Finally, unless it's really bad, the older surface watered clay courts around here get watered at the end or beginning of the day. They do dry out, but it's not bad enough to hurt them and they are still playable. I haven't been too many places where they water the courts mutliple times a day.

As to the OP, yes, during play, clay courts can get lumpy from movement. There are bad bounces. But, they are easier on your body and the play is different which is enjoyable. You take the good with the bad. And as far as pro tournaments go, I have yet to see one where they did not at least sweep the courts between sets. This is usually done during commercial break, but all professional tournaments pretty much sweep the courts between sets to "reset" it for the next set's play. Watering? Some do and some don't. I would guess that's more the call of the groundskeeper and the requirements of the court due to environmentals.
 
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Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
don't listen to the other guy, listen to us :). clay courts are swept regularly, and need a lot of work to keep them well maintained. if the pictures and videos that everyone here has posted don't show you that most of us know what we're talking about (especially drakulie) then just look it up on google. you'll find the laundry list of equipment and maintenance that goes into clay courts is pretty extensive, and has to be to stop them wearing down and becoming unplayable.

ps, i just googled "clay court maintenance" and came up with this:
http://www.essortment.com/hobbies/claytenniscour_sajt.htm

thought it was pretty good on explaining basics, but the article is for a private court. usually public ones used regularly in tennis clubs and for match play have to be watered more often than once a day.

You missed the point completely, again!
 
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Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
FWIW...

Around here, they only have green clay, but there are two types of construction both dealing with how they're watered. The first is the older which is surface watered. In my experience, those must be rolled, watered, and swept regularly.

The second type are the new HydraCourts. They are continually watered from underneath through a natural wicking process. They do not need the old maintenance schedule. They are watered continually as needed and the consistency of the surface negates the need for rolling and sweeping like the older courts because it doesn't move as much.

Also, I have belonged to clubs where they were absolutely fanatic about "cleaning" up the court after you played. You were required to sweep it after play. And, and this is more the norm, I have belonged to clubs which pretty much leave it up to the players. This usually means that before you play, if you think it needs sweeping....sweep it.

Finally, unless it's really bad, the older surface watered clay courts around here get watered at the end or beginning of the day. They do dry out, but it's not bad enough to hurt them and they are still playable. I haven't been too many places where they water the courts mutliple times a day.

As to the OP, yes, during play, clay courts can get lumpy from movement. There are bad bounces. But, they are easier on your body and the play is different which is enjoyable. You take the good with the bad. And as far as pro tournaments go, I have yet to see one where they did not at least sweep the courts between sets. This is usually done during commercial break, but all professional tournaments pretty much sweep the courts between sets to "reset" it for the next set's play. Watering? Some do and some don't. I would guess that's more the call of the groundskeeper and the requirements of the court due to environmentals.

Agreed where emphasis is added. One of the parks around here (that's been in existence since the 1920's to my knowledge), that have clay courts, recently finished a complete re-installation with the new tech clay courts. I think it's the same thing you're talking about. I haven't played on them, but, they look emaculate. As for pro clay court events, I've seen one, The Washington Star, on Har-Tru, and they didn't sweep between sets. I did see some great clay court matches, though.
 
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zasr4325

Professional
You missed the point completely, again!

what point is it that i am missing? please, if there is something i don't understand, explain it to me. i might be wrong in something i've said, or there might be a different protocol for certain different types of clay. all i know, is that on red clay, in warmer weather, they sweep the courts regularly and water them more than once a day. this is true for most tennis clubs, especially those which have regular match play. granted, the courts i play on in spain and in england are pretty much booked out for the entire day, and so are in constant use, which would mean they probably require more watering and sweeping, and more maintenance in general. as i said earlier though, it might not be you that was sweeping or watering it, but there was definitely someone who was doing it. if this isn't done, then the courts get worn down and unplayable, as the clay dries and bunches up, gets blown around and there isn't any protection for the under-surface. maybe public courts which aren't affiliated with a tennis club are different in as much as they won't be as well maintained because of the added cost, so they would only be watered at the beginning and end of the day.
in terms of watering, for a pro match it could depend on the weather as to when they water the courts. a hot dry day could mean the courts are watered more regularly, or even if there were problems with the courts (Madrid 09). but a more damp cooler day will mean the clay doesn't require watering too much, only sweeping at the beginning of each set.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
what point is it that i am missing? please, if there is something i don't understand, explain it to me.

You're not missing anything. In fact, you are educating a rude, elderly person who as evidenced by this thread, has no knowledge of the subject being discussed (even with his "40 years" of experience).
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
One guy claims that courts are rarely ever swept while everyone else say courts are swept all the time. I don't know what to believe. :confused: On one hand you got everyone else, on the other hand you got this one guy but he got 40+ years of experience watching pro tennis AND playing on dozens of courts. Then, there's some 18 year old pimpled-face kid who knows nothing AND everything. What is the truth?:confused:


This same "guy", also claims Rosewall hit 80+ mph slice backhands.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
FWIW...

Around here, they only have green clay, but there are two types of construction both dealing with how they're watered. The first is the older which is surface watered. In my experience, those must be rolled, watered, and swept regularly.

The second type are the new HydraCourts. They are continually watered from underneath through a natural wicking process. They do not need the old maintenance schedule. They are watered continually as needed and the consistency of the surface negates the need for rolling and sweeping like the older courts because it doesn't move as much.

Also, I have belonged to clubs where they were absolutely fanatic about "cleaning" up the court after you played. You were required to sweep it after play. And, and this is more the norm, I have belonged to clubs which pretty much leave it up to the players. This usually means that before you play, if you think it needs sweeping....sweep it.

Finally, unless it's really bad, the older surface watered clay courts around here get watered at the end or beginning of the day. They do dry out, but it's not bad enough to hurt them and they are still playable. I haven't been too many places where they water the courts mutliple times a day.

As to the OP, yes, during play, clay courts can get lumpy from movement. There are bad bounces. But, they are easier on your body and the play is different which is enjoyable. You take the good with the bad. And as far as pro tournaments go, I have yet to see one where they did not at least sweep the courts between sets. This is usually done during commercial break, but all professional tournaments pretty much sweep the courts between sets to "reset" it for the next set's play. Watering? Some do and some don't. I would guess that's more the call of the groundskeeper and the requirements of the court due to environmentals.


Nice post, Rabbit.

Where I live there are at least two of the hydro courts (David and Sunrise Parks). The person in charge of maintenance really needs to know what they are doing when it comes to maintaining those courts because if they set up the hydro too high, the courts become mushy and filled with puddles,,,,,, too low, and the courts become dry very quick and it takes a long time to get the moisture back in the clay. Also, one has to take into account the weather, which plays a big role on how the courts are going to be maintained on any given day.

That said, even on these courts, they are swept routinely throughout the day, and when they have big tournaments, between sets.

Personally, I like to play more on courts that are watered overground, than the hydro courts, which typically are much more moist, and play WAYYYYYYY slower.
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
USTA National Clay Court Champioinships. Notice the courts have been swept before the match:

100b8651.jpg


National Clay Court Championships,.,,,,Here, you could see the adjacent court has been swept:

100b9722.jpg


yet another court with an adjacent court that has been swept:



another court that has been swept:

101b0270.jpg




what's this? Oh, Yes... a freshly swept court:



notice the last court has been swept: (BTW< that is Pablo Arraya former number 24 in the world in the photo)

101b1051.jpg
 

big bang

Hall of Fame
Right now I play at a smaller club with 6 red clay courts. The courts here (like everywhere else I ever played) are swept every hour and watered when ever they become dry.
In the summer I play Clay tournaments only and everywhere its the same! As soon as a match finishes the players sweep and turn on the sprinklers, during longer matches when its hot the players normally take a small break to sweep and turn on the sprinklers once again. Have you ever played on a dry claycourt in windy conditions? You constantly get dust blown into your eyes making it impossible to play.
Here in Europe something like 90% of the outdoor courts are clay and we sure know how to maintain them, I dont know if Limpy plays at some crappy clubs in US because it sure looks like drakulie´s club knows how to maintain their courts..
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
Ahh beach tennis!.. someone tell the guy that clay and sand is not the same thing:).


What is absolutely hysterical to me is that he says, "not once in 40 years" has he noticed courts being maintained during pro events. Did he fail to notice in all this time, when the event comes back from a commercial break at the end of the set that the courts have been swept, watered and lines cleaned?? :roll:

Then again, this is what I like about him,,,,,,, his attention to detail. :roll:

To add, the fact that he has never played in courts that the courts are swept/watered/maintained. I suppose he just assumed the court fix themsleves overnight.
 

big bang

Hall of Fame
What is absolutely hysterical to me is that he says, "not once in 40 years" has he noticed courts being maintained during pro event :roll:s. Did he fail to notice in all this time, when the event comes back from a commercial break at the end of the set that the courts have been swept, watered and lines cleaned??

Then again, this is what I like about him,,,,,,, his attention to detail. :roll:

To add, the fact that he has never played in courts that the courts are swept/watered/maintained. I suppose he just assumed the court fix themsleves overnight.

Exactly! and you will see that at EVERY tournament. But maybe its just a trick on tv to give them more time for commercials:) Oh wait a sec.. They actually did it LIVE every time I have been to RG, MC and Rome so maybe Limpy was asleep during every tournament??.
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
USTA National Clay Court Champioinships. Notice the courts have been swept before the match:

100b8651.jpg


National Clay Court Championships,.,,,,Here, you could see the adjacent court has been swept:

100b9722.jpg


yet another court with an adjacent court that has been swept:



another court that has been swept:

101b0270.jpg




what's this? Oh, Yes... a freshly swept court:



notice the last court has been swept: (BTW< that is Pablo Arraya former number 24 in the world in the photo)

101b1051.jpg


Good boy! Give Drak a scooby snack! Your pictures demonstrate exactly what I've been saying, as the OP initially inquired, and which you lost sight of because you're too busy being an AH looking for a fight, that clay courts do indeed get "jacked up."

One more thing - just because courts are maintained in a certain way at a particular club or park doesn't mean shat about how their maintained elsewhere. Just because courts are maintained a certain way during National Clay Court Champoinships, doesn't mean that they're maintained that way throughout the year. And, just because a court is swept in the morning, doesn't mean it's maintained throughout the day.

And, you know all that, you're just an AH looking for a fight!
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
Your pictures demonstrate exactly what I've been saying,

You've been saying that in 40 years, you haven't noticed courts being maintained in pro events. TRY OPENING YOUR EYES NEXT TIME YOU WATCH A MATCH. My photos clearly show that the courts are swept, watered, and cared for during events, including between sets.

Several posters from around the world disagree with you, and have provided ample proof that you are wrong.
 

T1000

Legend
I once saw Rosewall hit an 80 mph slice backhand on a clay court that's never been swept or watered before. It was truly an amazing sight
 

zasr4325

Professional
I never once said, or implied, that clay courts shouldn't be swept or watered every match, or every set, or every point, if you're as OCD as Ralph. That issue has nothing to do with this conversation.

The OP asked if clay courts get "jacked up." The answer is yes, they do. And, in my experience, most clay courts are badly neglected compared to the care and maintanence they are supposed to get. Even venerable "restricted" private clubs don't actually give their clay courts the kind of care you're talking about. Drakulie is full of sh*t, and an AH, as usual! Are you implying that I don't know what a freshly swept and watered clay court looks like? I've swept my own courts and brushed my own lines a thousand times.

As for pro events, I've seen a lot of hard court and indoor events. As I've already explained, I've seen one clay court event, the Washington Star Int'l. (now called the Legg Mason Classic). And the courts were not swept or watered during matches when I was there.

The main reason i was explaining why clay courts need to be watered and swept was because you were saying that nobody was doing it at the places you've played at. that cannot be true if you were playing in high heat, (which i assume you were in south america) and if the courts were being used for long periods of time. So i felt i had to reiterate how much maintenance goes into the care of clay courts to show you that there was someone doing it, even if you didn't bother. so now we've established that clay courts need sweeping and watering, we must now move on to the fact that clay courts are watered/swept during a pro match. Does the fact that several people have actually posted pictures from tournaments around the world showing people sweeping and watering the courts not prove you wrong? can you not just admit you are wrong? surely the fact that i provided a video of RAFAEL NADAL (the pro player, you must know him :wink:) sweeping the courts before his practice prove the point that they are swept? what exactly is it you can't or won't understand? or what point is it you are trying to make?
 

drakulie

Talk Tennis Guru
^^Actually, in the video you provided,,,, Nadal is not sweeping the courts. He is actually sharpening that giant knife he is pulling, so he could cut his steak. :)
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
You claimed that courts were "not once" swept where you play. Then, you said that you, yourselves, have swept them thousand times. :confused:
See the contradiction, Einstein? :mrgreen:

Gomer, do you see the distinction between the club and/or park maintaining their courts and me sweeping poorly maintained courts because they don't take care of it?
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
Are you literally too inept to come up with anything other than a pathetic attempt at a riposte? I tried again and again to explain and make clear what my opinion was, and yet every time all you could do was ignore and blurt out more of your slurry. It's actually embarrassing that someone of your age has to resort to such standards as calling people names, instead of actually trying to form a coherent argument. Why is it you keep shying away from any confrontation? Have you not realised that there isn't a single person on here that agrees with anything you say? Can you not just leave?

Anoxic encephalopathy?
 

Z-Man

Professional
A few observations:

Several people have mentioned sweeping courts and lines. I actually prefer for the lines to remain unswept. It's easier to slide across lines that have a little clay on them, and clay on the lines helps with line calls as well. There is nothing like painting a line with a mark you can see from 30ft away. Also, sweeping lines can make it harder to see separation on a very close mark. It's better to leave some clay on them.

Even a pretty rough clay court gives mostly true bounces. The variation in bounce is more than made up for by the fact that the ball sits up so you have more time to adjust.

Hydro-Courts (watered from underneath) tend to be slow, but the surface is usually very even, and you can slide as far as you want on them. I'm a big fan.
 

Limpinhitter

G.O.A.T.
A few observations:

Several people have mentioned sweeping courts and lines. I actually prefer for the lines to remain unswept. It's easier to slide across lines that have a little clay on them, and clay on the lines helps with line calls as well. There is nothing like painting a line with a mark you can see from 30ft away. Also, sweeping lines can make it harder to see separation on a very close mark. It's better to leave some clay on them.

Even a pretty rough clay court gives mostly true bounces. The variation in bounce is more than made up for by the fact that the ball sits up so you have more time to adjust.

Hydro-Courts (watered from underneath) tend to be slow, but the surface is usually very even, and you can slide as far as you want on them. I'm a big fan.

Sure, but, you're still going to get plenty of bad bounces even on well kept courts, after they're "jacked up." But, I'm not complaining too much. I probably benefit from bad bounces more than I suffer from them. It's an inherent part of clay court tennis.
 
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JohnnyCracker

Semi-Pro
Hey old man, one question. You said that you've swept courts a thousand times. Was it before or after play? :mrgreen:
 
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1

15_ounce

Guest
Let's watch some TV

NOT ONCE have I played at any club or park where the courts are swept before and after play, NEVER! Bad bounces are an inherent part of clay court tennis, both because of the lines and imperfections in the surface material. And, I've never seen courts being swept during a pro clay court match, between sets or otherwise, live or on TV.

Yes they do sweep the real red clay courts at PRO matches between sets. Please see this video, showing clay courts being swept between sets:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX5PevdcPqQ
 
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