Double Bump - ever see it?

[SGM1980]

There are two young ladies with whom I play who play much better than their rated level. None of us can figure out how they didn't get bumped from 3.5 to 4.0 last year, honestly. TLS ratings had them right on the boarder.

This year they routinely bagel and breadstick very good 3.5's. They went to states on their 3.5 and their 4.0 teams and won both divisions.

One is undefeated for the entire season in every league except for two third set tiebreak losses at 4.0. Undefeated at states.

The other is undefeated the entire season and has one loss at 4.0 states.

Does anyone ever get double bumped? Winning out at states at your "playing up" level seems like it might warrent it.

 

[esgee48]

Only once in league, but it was over 2 seasons. 3 guys bumped from 4.5 to 5.0 when they went to Nationals. Same 3 got bumped to 5.5 next year. Fair to say though that 2 of the 3 were lefties with huge serves and return games. The other was just all around very good who played with his brother who was nationally ranked at the time. Don't know where they are now because they all moved away.

 

[J011yroger]

Seen people go from 4.0 to 5.0.

J

 

[Startzel]

Yeah we had a guy a couple years ago that self rated as a 3.0. He got disqualified to 3.5 and bumped to 4.0 at year end.

A similar thing happened last year in Charleston. @g4driver might know who I'm talking about.

Edit: actually the guy in Charleston got disqualified at both 3.0 and 3.5 lol

 

[g4driver]

Collins Park, Summerville or the MP guy? Pretty sure we had three of them.

Warning: graphic natural animal image ahead.
Both these images came to mind.

Or perhaps more graphic:

Bet money the dog in the middle didn't see that coming. Like a sandbagger getting his salad tossed like that caboose dog. [emoji102]

Happens ever year here. saw two 3.5S bumped to 4.5 in 2013. Hilton Head guys if I remember correctly. Seen multiple 3.0S get DQed at 3.0 and then DQed at 3.5 double bumped to 4.0.

 

[Startzel]

Wow I didn't realize you guys had had many. I was aware of the Summerville guy last year who played for Collins park this year.

 

[wings56]

I got double bumped down after my first year in USTA. I was forced to rate at 5.5. I got my butt handed to me at sectionals and have been 4.5 sincr

 

[schmke]

Double bumps do happen. I've done analysis of how often it happens. I'm not allowed to post the link here (someone else can though), but Google "usta league double bump" and you should find it.

But the summary is that from 2012 to 2013, just 25 double bumps up occurred. Note I did not look at double bumps up from a self-rated level.

 

[Startzel]

http://computerratings.blogspot.com/2014/09/how-rarely-does-double-bump-occur-more.html?m=1

 

[kevrol]

I would not consider a Self-rated person to be a double bump. That's someone that was obviously playing at the wrong level.

 

[g4driver]

Wonder if Schmke could post the number of self-rated players doubled bumped and by Section?

It seems Southern has a lot of this going on. But then again isn't the Southern Section approximately 1/3 of all USTA players ? So not surprising if we have more players self-rating too low than any other section. Doesn't make it right.

 

[schmke]

I would not consider a Self-rated person to be a double bump. That's someone that was obviously playing at the wrong level.

Agree, that is why I didn't include them in my analysis.

 

[sam_p]

I know of a triple bump, from 4.0C to 5.5...

Seen people go from 4.0 to 5.0.

J

 

[J011yroger]

I know of a triple bump, from 4.0C to 5.5...

Shazam!

J

 

[schmke]

Wonder if Schmke could post the number of self-rated players doubled bumped and by Section?

It seems Southern has a lot of this going on. But then again isn't the Southern Section approximately 1/3 of all USTA players ? So not surprising if we have more players self-rating too low than any other section. Doesn't make it right.

Already did that too Google "checking usta league self-rated by section" and you should find what I did for men and women by section.

But specifically about Southern, here is the chart I made showing the self-rated year-end levels by level (I believe it is ok to embed an image, I'm not linking to my site which I'm not allowed to do).

Here by comparison is the National chart.

Southern actually isn't way out of whack, and in fact has slightly fewer self-rates bumped up as a percentage. But like @g4driver says, due to the number of players in Southern, that still means a large number are bumped up making the issue perhaps appear worse than it is. And with that many players, a handful that are doing it deliberately get lost in the noise.

 

[r2473]

Double Bump - ever see it?

There are two young ladies ....

OK, so this thread is about young ladies and double bumps, right?

 

[g4driver]

Thanks Schmke.

Don't understand why you can't reference your website. You aren't competing against TW or another tennis company.

 

[Carefree]

OK, so this thread is about young ladies and double bumps, right?

Almost. It's about young ladies checking out your double bumps

 

[schmke]

Thanks Schmke.

Don't understand why you can't reference your website. You aren't competing against TW or another tennis company.

They don't want their message board filled with spam/ads/etc. from people coming here just to self-promote their web-site and post associated links. That is understandable, but I also don't think the limited number of links I posted would be considered anything bordering on excessive promotion and in fact I generally only posted them in response to people with questions where the content of what I linked to answered the questions or was pertinent to the discussion, much like this thread and another one I posted to today.

But a rule is a rule and I'll abide by it.

 

[Angle Queen]

^^ Thanks for the explanation. You show your true character by living within the Rules.

Personally, I have always enjoyed your rather unique perspective and have sincerely appreciated the insight you provide...quite frankly, on a free basis. I have availed myself of your service and found it, as well as your personal commentary and advice, extremely helpful and valuable -- and that's a rare combination sometimes. What I got for what I paid was exceptional. If I were a serious captain, aiming for USTA Nationals glory...you'd be doing a team analysis for me on a frequent basis.

As it is, I very much enjoy the level of statistical analysis you bring to our TT table. Thanks for being willing to continue to contribute both on a personal and professional basis.

BTW, I'm still looking for an over/under on when Cindy will get back into USTA. LOL.

 

[schmke]

Gosh, thanks!

So, I'll probably write up a bunch more on my blog, but some initial analysis is interesting.

In 40+ 4.5+, 5.0s can be rostered and play on court 1 singles or court 1 doubles. So you'd expect to find court 1's filled with a lot of 5.0s and indeed they were. Looking at data from 2016, 32% of court 1 singles and 23% of court 1 doubles players were 5.0s. There were of course a bunch of 4.5s on both courts, but to the point of this thread, a full 10% of players in both singles and doubles on court 1's were 4.0s! So it would seem that teams without a 5.0 are not afraid to roll a 4.0 out on court 1.

For completeness, 16% of court 2 singles were 4.0s, 15% of court 2 doubles were 4.0s, and 24% of court 3 doubles were 4.0s. So 4.0s are more likely to show up on court 2 or 3, but 10% on court 1 where they could meet a 5.0 is a lot, especially if you are the 5.0 "getting" to play a much weaker opponent.

 

[Mongolmike]

^^ Thanks for the explanation. You show your true character by living within the Rules.

Personally, I have always enjoyed your rather unique perspective and have sincerely appreciated the insight you provide...quite frankly, on a free basis.
As it is, I very much enjoy the level of statistical analysis you bring to our TT table. Thanks for being willing to continue to contribute both on a personal and professional basis.

.

100% agree. Have had no need to use your service, but I appreciate your perspective AND the effort you put into what you do. Thank you.

 

[xxbwhxx]

I've seen some players with the double bump up as well. Recently, I've been told that one computerized player I know might be getting double bumped down. Not sure how accurate it might be though and am curious to see if that has happened.

 

[Shroud]

There are two young ladies with whom I play who play much better than their rated level. None of us can figure out how they didn't get bumped from 3.5 to 4.0 last year, honestly. TLS ratings had them right on the boarder.

This year they routinely bagel and breadstick very good 3.5's. They went to states on their 3.5 and their 4.0 teams and won both divisions.

One is undefeated for the entire season in every league except for two third set tiebreak losses at 4.0. Undefeated at states.

The other is undefeated the entire season and has one loss at 4.0 states.

Does anyone ever get double bumped? Winning out at states at your "playing up" level seems like it might warrent it.

Best way to get double bumped is to get rated on TT then self rate at that level with the USTA. Double bump for sure

 

[Zandlebam]

I've seen two different kinds of double bump, and I'm not sure which is more frustrating... Two women who played 3.0 Nationals in 2013 received year-end 4.0 ratings -- I can't recall whether they were self or computer rated, but that's just ridiculous. Another double bump happened with a local player who self-rated as a 3.0 early in the year and played 7.0 mixed, with a 4.0 man, then when the adult season started a few months later she somehow changed her self-rating to 3.5, played both 3.5W and 4.0W, and finally got DQed at 3.5 and retroactively DQed for her 7.0 matches. A year later she's 4.0C and Tennisrecord.com has her rated as a 4.07

 

[GatorTennis]

There was a mixed double season a few years back where several mixed exclusive players got double bumped. Most got bumped down a level after a season. I have also seen double bumps occur after killing people at Nationals. I have never seen a triple bump, but I suppose if you played up a level and killed people at sectionals/nationals it's possible.

 

[Startzel]

There was a mixed double season a few years back where several mixed exclusive players got double bumped. Most got bumped down a level after a season. I have also seen double bumps occur after killing people at Nationals. I have never seen a triple bump, but I suppose if you played up a level and killed people at sectionals/nationals it's possible.

A triple bump just doesn't even seem possible.

 

[Startzel]

A triple bump just doesn't even seem possible.

Turns out I was very wrong. Another thread made me look at the southern section 3.0 championship and a team from GA had a guy go from 2.5 to 4.0.

 

[schmke]

Turns out I was very wrong. Another thread made me look at the southern section 3.0 championship and a team from GA had a guy go from 2.5 to 4.0.

Well, doesn't really count on two fronts. One, he was a self-rated so wasn't really a 2.5, plus he only played 3.0 before getting his 4.0C. So could argue it was sort of a double bump but you also have to consider the self-rating was very questionable.

 

[Startzel]

Well, doesn't really count on two fronts. One, he was a self-rated so wasn't really a 2.5, plus he only played 3.0 before getting his 4.0C. So could argue it was sort of a double bump but you also have to consider the self-rating was very questionable.

Yeah I think cheating is the only way anyone could ever get triple bumped.

 

[J011yroger]

Yeah I think cheating is the only way anyone could ever get triple bumped.

Damn, there goes my shot at the tour.

J

 

[SGM1980]

These ladies in question just won 4.0 sectionals so will be on their merry little "3.5" way to Nationals.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a double bump.

Also have to play them next weekend in a 3.5 WTT weekend event.

 

[Nellie]

I have only seen double bumps from singles players winning or otherwise doing well at nationals. It kind of makes sense in that people at nationals as a whole tend to be beyond the top of their ratings levels, and the winners will be going beating others that are above the rating levels. I have seen the ratings sheets for some people who are DQ'd and even when they are rolling 6-0, 6-0 in local league play, it is hard to get far out of level because the opponents rating are not that highly rated.

 

[scmyers]

I had a teammate go from 3.0s to 3.0b then 3.0C over 3 years, they won 3.0 nationals the year he was 3.0C and the next year he got double bumped to 4.0. I think he spent 2 years at 4.0 and is 4.5 now. He was a young guy who had just started playing tennis and improved greatly year after year.

 

[rod99]

There are two young ladies with whom I play who play much better than their rated level. None of us can figure out how they didn't get bumped from 3.5 to 4.0 last year, honestly. TLS ratings had them right on the boarder.

This year they routinely bagel and breadstick very good 3.5's. They went to states on their 3.5 and their 4.0 teams and won both divisions.

One is undefeated for the entire season in every league except for two third set tiebreak losses at 4.0. Undefeated at states.

The other is undefeated the entire season and has one loss at 4.0 states.

Does anyone ever get double bumped? Winning out at states at your "playing up" level seems like it might warrent it.

i assume you are talking about TT and MW? should have been 4.0s after last year. TT might get bumped to 4.5, though tennisrecord.com (for what it's worth) has them still as 4.0s right now. might depend on nationals. i put 0 stock in TLS. it's not accurate at all.

 

[geom]

I was on the team that took 5.0 Nationals in 2010; our top ringer guy got double-bumpage from 5.0 to 6.0.

 

[SGM1980]

i assume you are talking about TT and MW? should have been 4.0s after last year. TT might get bumped to 4.5, though tennisrecord.com (for what it's worth) has them still as 4.0s right now. might depend on nationals. i put 0 stock in TLS. it's not accurate at all.

I think I missed this reply, and yes. Those are the two girls in question.

They both played every match at Nationals and each easily won her first two matches. Then each lost her third match to the team that ended up winning the section.

I'll be very curious to see what happens in November.

 

[J_R_B]

I know of a triple bump, from 4.0C to 5.5...

Was that Hunter Emmott? He's at least a 5.5 who blatantly cheated his rating down to 4.0 and then got bumped at least to 5.0 after nationals, but it might have been 5.5.

 

[sam_p]

No, it was a young guy who started playing at about 15 years old and is a naturally gifted athlete. He played league at about 21 as a 4.0S, got a 4.0C after a year with one or two losses. Then next year he went undefeated at singles through nationals and was bumped to 5.5. He is now about 27 and is settled in as a pretty good 5.0 player doing well in 5.0 and open tournaments and well in league.