Doubles Fundamentals

[cincyMike]

Our club has a mixed doubles tournament every year and I decided that it would be a fun thing to give a try this year. I ended up asking a local teaching pro to partner up with me and she actually agreed to do so. After agreeing to play with me, she started blasting her partner from last year about some of the bonehead moves he was making and basically ripping him apart for every little thing he did that wasn't what she thought was the right strategy or shot selection. I am a 5.0 player but I only play doubles on rare occasion. That being said I have a lot of bad tendencies like staying back on my serve and waiting for the short ball to come in, being in bad position because I haven't played enough to always know where I should be. I don't lob very often either, and I am a bit passive at the net when my partner is serving because I haven't gained the confidence at the net because I don't come up a lot in singles either.

I am hoping some people can give me some basic fundamental things to do that will help me to make good decisions. Serve placement, shot return selection, best shot to hit when both opponents are at the net etc..

I guess I wouldn't be sweating this so much if my partner hadn't bashed her previous partner so much. Anyway any advice would be much appreciated. I will report back with how things go this evening.

 

[SweetH2O]

Have you told your partner all the stuff that you said in your post? Good communication with your partner will go farther than most advice you'll get here about where to hit the ball.

 

[cincyMike]

Have you told your partner all the stuff that you said in your post? Good communication with your partner will go farther than most advice you'll get here about where to hit the ball.

Absolutely, I wanted her to be clear on my ability and lack of experience in doubles, let alone mixed doubles. I also let her know about my tendencies so it wouldn't come as an unexpected surprise when we were playing our match.

 

[Captain Ron]

You will get a lot of advice here, I'll give you two quick thoughts.
1. Doubles should be played more aggressively than singles. If you don't anticipate a strong reply, move in for the volley.
2. Talk to your partner about tactics, she sounds more experienced at doubles so will have some good ideas. Keep it a partnership and also provide your own input and ideas.
Good luck and have fun

 

[MisterP]

I don't know. If she's bashing someone behind their back, I'd have second thoughts about being her partner. It will probably be fine as long as you're winning, but if you don't win it could backfire on you. I'd proceed with caution, especially if you're not entirely comfortable playing doubles.

 

[atatu]

Get your first serves in and make your first volley....get your returns back cross court. Don't miss easy volleys and overheads and you'll be fine. No double faults, ever. That's as fundamental as it gets.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

Our club has a mixed doubles tournament every year and I decided that it would be a fun thing to give a try this year. I ended up asking a local teaching pro to partner up with me and she actually agreed to do so. After agreeing to play with me, she started blasting her partner from last year about some of the bonehead moves he was making and basically ripping him apart for every little thing he did that wasn't what she thought was the right strategy or shot selection. I am a 5.0 player but I only play doubles on rare occasion. That being said I have a lot of bad tendencies like staying back on my serve and waiting for the short ball to come in, being in bad position because I haven't played enough to always know where I should be. I don't lob very often either, and I am a bit passive at the net when my partner is serving because I haven't gained the confidence at the net because I don't come up a lot in singles either.

I am hoping some people can give me some basic fundamental things to do that will help me to make good decisions. Serve placement, shot return selection, best shot to hit when both opponents are at the net etc..

I guess I wouldn't be sweating this so much if my partner hadn't bashed her previous partner so much. Anyway any advice would be much appreciated. I will report back with how things go this evening.

On serve, if you're playing people you've never faced, probe for weaknesses in your first game or two. Hit a variety of different serves and make a mental note how your opponents did with the returns. Do they struggle with backhands in general? Do they struggle with certain spin serves? Do they cheat to one side and leave you a big gap on the other?

If you find weaknesses, then exploit them. If you find strengths, then avoid them. Target the weakness most of the time, and occasionally mix in a different serve to catch them off guard. Your go-to serve should be the one that your opponent struggles with the most. Ruthlessness is your friend.

 

[cincyMike]

Is it more accepted these days than it was in the past to serve and stay back until you get a short ball? I hardly ever serve and volley so I think I am better off to stay back and focus on my strengths which is my groundstrokes to set up a short ball to move in on.

 

[tennis tom]

I am hoping some people can give me some basic fundamental things to do that will help me to make good decisions. Serve placement, shot return selection, best shot to hit when both opponents are at the net etc..

Sure no problem:

1) Is it too late to back-out? There's a bad flu going around.

2) When Fed's done with Edberg hire him to teach you how to volley, Roger's starting to get it after a couple of years of Ed teaching him how to S/V.

3) If you have about $25,000 and five years I can give you a quickie course on how to do learn the fundamentals, etc.

4) Serve and move in: The team that takes over the net in doubles wins. One up/one back has no future, unless the opposition uses this stupid strategy too. Lobbying against real players won't work, they move well and will eat them up for over-head winners.

5) Watch a video of the recent Paes/Hingis mx'ed.

6) This should be a GREAT learning experience for you.

7) Maybe she wasn't "bad-mouthing" as much as attempting to give you a flash course in playing doubles.

8) You are compensating her for her time aren't you?

9) Serve down the middle when the score is even, or into the body if you have that serve.

10) When all players are at the net, hit to the player on your side unless you can angle it off for a winner or you open up the court.

11) Return serve cross-court about a racket length from the net-strap to keep opponent from poaching.

12) Good luck! And the most important thing: Is she HOT !?!

13) There's a baker's dozen winning tips, If you win I want a cut of the winning's and her number for the next time I'm going through Cincy.

 

[cincyMike]

Sure no problem:

1) Is it too late to back-out? There's a bad flu going around.

2) When Fed's done with Edberg hire him to teach you how to volley, Roger's starting to get it after a couple of years of Ed teaching him how to S/V.

3) If you have about $25,000 and five years I can give you a quickie course on how to do learn the fundamentals, etc.

4) Serve and move in: The team that takes over the net in doubles wins. One up/one back has no future, unless the opposition uses this stupid strategy too. Lobbying against real players won't work, they move well and will eat them up for over-head winners.

5) Watch a video of the recent Paes/Hingis mx'ed.

6) This should be a GREAT learning experience for you.

7) Maybe she wasn't "bad-mouthing" as much as attempting to give you a flash course in playing doubles.

8) You are compensating her for her time aren't you?

9) Serve down the middle when the score is even, or into the body if you have that serve.

10) When all players are at the net, hit to the player on your side unless you can angle it off for a winner or you open up the court.

11) Return serve cross-court about a racket length from the net-strap to keep opponent from poaching.

12) Good luck! And the most important thing: Is she HOT !?!

13) There's a baker's dozen winning tips, If you win I want a cut of the winning's and her number for the next time I'm going through Cincy.

Very funny but very good feedback as well. I did catch the Paes/Hingis match. Not sure I can make some of the plays that Paes was making out there though. Also growing up Edberg was my favorite player, so will definitely see if I can schedule some time with him to work on those volleys in the near future! Thanks.

 

[frank52]

At least read a basic doubles book to bring yourself up to a 3.5 doubles level. Your partner will appreciate it. Dynamite Doubles is a good book showing some basic positioning.

 

[tennis tom]

... Not sure I can make some of the plays that Paes was making out there though.

Your Welcome. With a little practice that behind-the-back volley winner Paes made at the net will be a cinch.

Good Luck!

 

[mxvb]

Louis Cayers doubles tactics :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf9ioqjGkXU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_s9VF5VwhI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLX8iD2wsUs

Old footage but still very useful!

 

[atatu]

At least read a basic doubles book to bring yourself up to a 3.5 doubles level. Your partner will appreciate it. Dynamite Doubles is a good book showing some basic positioning.

He's a 5.0 player, I don't think he has to worry about getting to a 3.5 doubles level. A 5.0 who has never played any doubles at all can go out there and make his serves, returns and basic volleys and be fine.

 

[DE19702]

The most fundamental errors I see frequently are: 1) your partner not moving up after you return serve; 2) not moving back when your partner is stuck behind the baseline or in the corner trying to hit a defensive lob or shot; 3) not letting the ball go past you for your partner to return and making a bone-headed try for anything that comes near you; and 4) standing on the serve line because you are too lazy and making the excuse that you are protecting yourself from a lob.

 

[J_R_B]

If you're not comfortable serve & volleying, that's going to be hard to suddenly start doing all the time, but OTOH, you do need to take the net to be successful. If you don't s&v, at least play close to the baseline and look to approach on the next shot.

 

[Clintspin]

You are a 5.0 player-what level is she? She can't be that much superior to you. Just play a good 5.0 game. There are lots of ways to play doubles.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Tip for all singles players at net playing doubles:

Want the ball.

Just put yourself in the best possible position to intercept the ball, and like you want to be involved. If you think you can reach the ball on a poach, go. Trust your instincts.

 

[Cindysphinx]

The most fundamental errors I see frequently are: 2) not moving back when your partner is stuck behind the baseline or in the corner trying to hit a defensive lob or shot;

Yeah, what's up with that?

I'm at net, my partner is scrambling to reach a ball and I know she is about to throw up a duck. Meanwhile, opponents are slobbering on the net strap.

And my partner scolds me for dropping back to play defense?

Do people not understand what it means to play offense versus defense?

 

[Bionic slice]

Communicate with your partner, make some poach singles to be ready to cover when they poach
Consider I or Australian formation
Serve smart and set up your partner for easy points
Serve and volley so they don't see your lazy
As a 5.0 you need to return smart, good angle crosses and don't be afraid to hit the ball so the opposing team has to move.
If you see a weaker player, exploit their weaker side, volley or backhand likely.

 

[LuckyR]

Single most useful piece of advice: when there is one up and one back, long to long and short to short, namely hit to the opposing baseline player off of groundstrokes at the baseline and to the netplayer off of short balls, preferably when you are the netman.

Others have been mentioned: no DFs, serve up the middle, really want the ball.

One last one: move laterally to follow the ball on the other side of the net, ie cover your alley as the netman when your partner hits a wide shot (to your side) and cover the middle when the ball goes wide to your partner's side.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Shhhh. Keep your voice down.

One never tells an inexperienced player to cover the alley.

That is how alley campers are made.

 

[LuckyR]

Shhhh. Keep your voice down.

One never tells an inexperienced player to cover the alley.

That is how alley campers are made.

If the dude is really a 5.0 guy playing with a teaching Pro woman who he is afraid she'll badmouth him after the match, I think it's OK...

 

[sureshs]

As a singles 5.0 player, you will crush any mixed doubles club social team, even if you play without a partner.

 

[winstonlim8]

Our club has a mixed doubles tournament every year and I decided that it would be a fun thing to give a try this year. I ended up asking a local teaching pro to partner up with me and she actually agreed to do so. After agreeing to play with me, she started blasting her partner from last year about some of the bonehead moves he was making and basically ripping him apart for every little thing he did that wasn't what she thought was the right strategy or shot selection. I am a 5.0 player but I only play doubles on rare occasion. That being said I have a lot of bad tendencies like staying back on my serve and waiting for the short ball to come in, being in bad position because I haven't played enough to always know where I should be. I don't lob very often either, and I am a bit passive at the net when my partner is serving because I haven't gained the confidence at the net because I don't come up a lot in singles either.

I am hoping some people can give me some basic fundamental things to do that will help me to make good decisions. Serve placement, shot return selection, best shot to hit when both opponents are at the net etc..

I guess I wouldn't be sweating this so much if my partner hadn't bashed her previous partner so much. Anyway any advice would be much appreciated. I will report back with how things go this evening.

Can you actually put away a volley, for starters?
Do you actually know how to get to the net?
Can you hit an overhead smash?

I suggest playing nothing but doubles until you finish the tournament. You'll need the practice. It's an entirely different game mentally.

 

[MisterP]

Our club has a mixed doubles tournament every year and I decided that it would be a fun thing to give a try this year. I ended up asking a local teaching pro to partner up with me and she actually agreed to do so. After agreeing to play with me, she started blasting her partner from last year about some of the bonehead moves he was making and basically ripping him apart for every little thing he did that wasn't what she thought was the right strategy or shot selection. I am a 5.0 player but I only play doubles on rare occasion. That being said I have a lot of bad tendencies like staying back on my serve and waiting for the short ball to come in, being in bad position because I haven't played enough to always know where I should be. I don't lob very often either, and I am a bit passive at the net when my partner is serving because I haven't gained the confidence at the net because I don't come up a lot in singles either.

I am hoping some people can give me some basic fundamental things to do that will help me to make good decisions. Serve placement, shot return selection, best shot to hit when both opponents are at the net etc..

I guess I wouldn't be sweating this so much if my partner hadn't bashed her previous partner so much. Anyway any advice would be much appreciated. I will report back with how things go this evening.

Can you actually put away a volley, for starters?
Do you actually know how to get to the net?
Can you hit an overhead smash?

I suggest playing nothing but doubles until you finish the tournament. You'll need the practice. It's an entirely different game mentally.

Can a 5.0 player not know how to hit a volley or a smash? Then again, Andy Roddick's volleys were almost as terrible as Andy Murray's smash overhead, so I guess anything is possible.

 

[fuzz nation]

I am hoping some people can give me some basic fundamental things to do that will help me to make good decisions. Serve placement, shot return selection, best shot to hit when both opponents are at the net etc..

A great image to keep in mind for strong positioning with a teammate is to try to act as a two-person wall. That means working to be together either up at the net or back at the baseline. Otherwise your opponents will have more openings to exploit more often.

Whether you're up at the net or back at the baseline, it's always to your advantage to keep your shots low. Doubles point are rarely conducted with the ball going back and forth through a horizontal plane. The shot height is usually "tilted" one way or the other and the team that is hitting down is the team with more initiative - better control of the action.

This idea of hitting down is really important, since you're coming from more of a singles background. Baseline strokes having ample net clearance and topspin are often great for singles, but might just get your partner's head blown off when playing an alert pair of opponents. Descending slices, low chip shots, dipping topspin drives, and volleys that are sent down at an opponent's shoes are all strong possibilities when trying to set the other guys up for the kill. Force them to hit up more often so that you can hit down - this can require some patience and touch to keep the ball away from the kill zone that's up around chest or head height.

As for serves, this sort of depends on your opponents. Be careful to avoid wasting lots of first serves attempting to bomb it past the other guys. Your objective is to control the action with this first shot and a spin serve with an unpredictable bounce can do that while also landing at a higher percentage. The other benefit of a slower spin serve is that you can get an extra step closer to the net before the ball comes back your way. When you eventually get more comfortable employing a serve and volley attack, this can come in very handy.

Serving to the backhand of either opponent is fine if that forces weaker returns, but I agree with our pals that it's also smart to consider serving right up the center. As long as you don't get hammered with a nasty return, serving up the "T" can deny returners much of any angle to make trouble for your team.

Make sure your partner knows how you want to cover the court together. If you poach aggressively and generally continue to the other half of the court, your partner needs to know enough to switch and cover the open half behind you. I'll call "ME" if I'm jumping on a ball through the middle - this tells my partner to stay out of my way. I'll call "YOU" when I'm going to leave the ball for my partner to take. When we're clear on these simple terms, we can more effectively cover the court together.

 

[LeeD]

Your partner will love you.
Just hit 80% of your first serves, stay back or come in, but make sure you crush the return low and CC, teasing left and right to bait the netperson.
On ROS, never miss a return, going sharp CC and never hitting the the net person.
When your opponent stays back, you drop angle. When your opponent moves to net position, you hit heavy topspin to their feet.
When you win by bagels, you'll be adored by your partner.

 

[winstonlim8]

Can a 5.0 player not know how to hit a volley or a smash? Then again, Andy Roddick's volleys were almost as terrible as Andy Murray's smash overhead, so I guess anything is possible.

I take it you don't realise it's possible to reach a 5.0 rating by playing very good dingdongpingpong singles without once having to hit a volley or overhead? Ah the magic of modern racquets and magic poly strings...

 

[MisterP]

I take it you don't realise it's possible to reach a 5.0 rating by playing very good dingdongpingpong singles without once having to hit a volley or overhead? Ah the magic of modern racquets and magic poly strings...

You are correct. I do not realize it.

In fact, I vehemently reject the possibility that a 5.0, an open level player, can't "put away a volley" or "hit an overhead smash."

 

[OrangePower]

You are correct. I do not realize it.

In fact, I vehemently reject the possibility that a 5.0, an open level player, can't "put away a volley" or "hit an overhead smash."

Any computer rated USTA 5.0 is going to have decent volleys and overhead, even if he is a singles specialist.

Now, a craigslist 5.0 on the other hand...

 

[chatt_town]

Well...as a 4.0...I will say this...the fundamentals for me are pretty simple...get your first serve in..preferably down the middle on both sides and come straight in to the net to volley. Again...I'm only a 4.0 but I've won 4.5 tourneys when I was a 3.5 with this logic...also this is coming from someone with a terrible serve on most days. You being a 5.0 you should have a much better than average serve so it should be no problem for you to get into the net and peel off a few volleys...

I also stay even with my partner if all possible...if he swings wide..I swing to the middle...if he goes back for a lob...I go back with him...keeps you from being nailed in the chest or eye with an overhead. I hit all strokes and volleys through the middle for the most part. It simplifies things.

Our club has a mixed doubles tournament every year and I decided that it would be a fun thing to give a try this year. I ended up asking a local teaching pro to partner up with me and she actually agreed to do so. After agreeing to play with me, she started blasting her partner from last year about some of the bonehead moves he was making and basically ripping him apart for every little thing he did that wasn't what she thought was the right strategy or shot selection. I am a 5.0 player but I only play doubles on rare occasion. That being said I have a lot of bad tendencies like staying back on my serve and waiting for the short ball to come in, being in bad position because I haven't played enough to always know where I should be. I don't lob very often either, and I am a bit passive at the net when my partner is serving because I haven't gained the confidence at the net because I don't come up a lot in singles either.

I am hoping some people can give me some basic fundamental things to do that will help me to make good decisions. Serve placement, shot return selection, best shot to hit when both opponents are at the net etc..

I guess I wouldn't be sweating this so much if my partner hadn't bashed her previous partner so much. Anyway any advice would be much appreciated. I will report back with how things go this evening.

 

[Rui]

You partner knows her doubles; let her lead. Still, s&v is the way to go. At least until she advises you to stay back.

You probably will know where to hit the ball. It's the positioning you'll be slow at recognizing. Follow your partner.

 

[RetroSpin]

Best thing you can do is practice your overhead a lot beforehand. If she has to start taking the overheads in the middle of the court, the USTA will send an official to retrieve your man card.

 

[cincyMike]

So I wanted to report back in on how things went. We ended up losing our first round match to a team with a former big ten champion. He played with his daughter who also finished 3rd in the state in D1 this year. Unfortunately we didn't have the best draw because they went on to win this thing. We won the next 2 matches against a pair of high level juniors and a brother/sister duo that has played together a while and both played D1 college. We ended up losing the Consolation final to the state champion singles player and her partner, huge serving junior with range at the net.

Overall it was kind of a mixed experience. We definitely struggled finding cohesion in our first match. She ended up showing up ten minutes late so we just walked onto the court and said hello to each other and started playing immediately. It was the first time I even met her so I think we were both a little uncomfortable and playing off our game a little bit. She was definitely vocal about my shot selection and tried to give me advice as to what to change, I was very receptive to it as I know this is not my area of expertise.

I have to say that for me its a whole new experience. Its kind of like learning to play tennis again in a way. The strategy and tactics are definitely different to how I approach my singles game. In singles usually the more skilled player with the better weapons will win, in doubles a lot of those things can be nullified and you have to be more precise in shot selection and execution. There are definitely things I enjoyed about the doubles experience and challenges but don't see myself entering an open level tournament again until I have improved my game enough to feel more confident in it.

 

[lstewart]

Sounds like you guys performed pretty well given the level of completion. I seldom play doubles in practice, although doubles is what I play in team tennis. I find doubles to not be much of a workout compared to hitting every ball in regular workouts. We play a lot of ghost doubles, which is playing cross court and using the doubles alley, and an imaginary extension of the center line from the service box. Some of these workouts I serve and volley every first and second serve, as well as sometimes chipping and coming in against the opponents second serve. Use this in your singles workouts to work on your serve and volley to gain confidence. This can become a weapon you can use as a surprise some in singles as well. Other times we play this cross court set-up and stay at the baseline, which can lead to some really long points banging balls.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Any computer rated USTA 5.0 is going to have decent volleys and overhead, even if he is a singles specialist.

Now, a craigslist 5.0 on the other hand...

Mmmm, not so.

Whether a 5.0 has decent volleys is going to depend on who is hitting the ball at him. Fellow 5.0s can hit well to bother a 5.0 at net if he is just "decent."

I mean, there are plenty of pros who do not volley well. Young Roddick is an example. Berdich is definitely an example, as his volleys are cringeworthy. Same deal on the women's side.

My point is that if any 5.0 is likely to have poor volleys, it is a 5.0 singles player.

It is odd to me in a way that singles players often have such awful volleys in doubles. I mean, I don't think my groundstrokes are God's gift, but I think they are much better than the volleys of my singles specialist pals.

 

[OrangePower]

Mmmm, not so.

Whether a 5.0 has decent volleys is going to depend on who is hitting the ball at him. Fellow 5.0s can hit well to bother a 5.0 at net if he is just "decent."

I mean, there are plenty of pros who do not volley well. Young Roddick is an example. Berdich is definitely an example, as his volleys are cringeworthy. Same deal on the women's side.

My point is that if any 5.0 is likely to have poor volleys, it is a 5.0 singles player.

It is odd to me in a way that singles players often have such awful volleys in doubles. I mean, I don't think my groundstrokes are God's gift, but I think they are much better than the volleys of my singles specialist pals.

Yes, depends on how you are measuring. When we call out pros that don't volley well, we mean they don't volley well relative to other pros. Of course relative to rec players, they all have great volleys!

Same for the 5.0 singles player... may not volley well for 5.0 level, but relative to your average group of rec players, he is going to have at least decent volleys.

Based on a follow up post by the OP, turns out he's playing against pretty high-level competition and not just your average club tournament type players. So maybe he was right to be concerned!