Doubles Serving Strategy for Tiebreaker

[Court Karma]

In a set or match tie-breaker where your team has the first serve, which partner should serve first?

I always heard the first point referred to as a “mini-break” and thereby concluded the first point was critically important. So under this perspective the person who has been serving best throughout the match serves the first point.

A partner called this into question, asserting it wastes the stronger server’s skills by limiting them to 1 serving opportunity instead of 2. Better to have the weaker server open the tiebreak so that the stronger server will have two serves early in the tiebreak.

Thoughts?

 

[Moveforwardalways]

I look at this a different way. To me, it’s not about who is the stronger server, but who is the stronger net player/poacher. On the first point of a breaker, I want my strongest net player at the net.

 

[Court Karma]

I look at this a different way. To me, it’s not about who is the stronger server, but who is the stronger net player/poacher. On the first point of a breaker, I want my strongest net player at the net.

Well stated.

So you would put your most successful serving/poaching combination out for the first point. Can you comment on my partner’s assertion that doing so wastes a strength? Meaning why do this for one, initial point instead of having an opportunity to use this configuration for two points?

 

[J011yroger]

First of all you can't change the serving order in a set tiebreaker.

In a match tiebreaker you want the strongest player to start unless there are mitigating circumstances like you are outdoors and want to keep the serving sides the same.

J

 

[J011yroger]

Well stated.

So you would put your most successful serving/poaching combination out for the first point. Can you comment on my partner’s assertion that doing so wastes a strength? Meaning why do this for one, initial point instead of having an opportunity to use this configuration for two points?

The stronger server will serve points 1,8,9,16&17.

At 7-8 you don't want the weaker pairing knowing the stronger partner will likely not serve again.

J

 

[J011yroger]

The weak partner will serve points 4,5,12&13 so one fewer point.

J

 

[J011yroger]

P.S. when someone tells you that they should serve first because you have the stronger volleys and netplay, that's code for your serve sucks.

J

 

[Moveforwardalways]

P.S. when someone tells you that they should serve first because you have the stronger volleys and netplay, that's code for your serve sucks.

J

You are talking about a higher level of play though. At 5.0 and what not, serves are dominant enough that the server has a significant advantage, and the server dictates play. At lower levels, this is almost never the case, and points on serve are won by the better net player while the server just has to not double fault.

 

[J011yroger]

You are talking about a higher level of play though. At 5.0 and what not, serves are dominant enough that the server has a significant advantage, and the server dictates play. At lower levels, this is almost never the case, and points on serve are won by the better net player while the server just has to not double fault.

True, at lower levels it's code for I don't want this lousy, no good, double faulting so and so to ruin this match we should have won in straight sets.

J

 

[Court Karma]

J011yroger we don't speak the same partner language but thanks for the math - makes sense.

Best combination goes first.

 

[J011yroger]

J011yroger we don't speak the same partner language but thanks for the math - makes sense.

Best combination goes first.

All in good fun, I've been on both sides of that discussion.

J

 

[OnTheLine]

The stronger server will serve points 1,8,9,16&17.

At 7-8 you don't want the weaker pairing knowing the stronger partner will likely not serve again.

J

Damn, been doing this all wrong ... thanks for laying out the basic math on this

 

[OrangePower]

Watch some pro mixed dubs - the male player almost always serves first in a match TB.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Watch some pro mixed dubs - the male player almost always serves first in a match TB.

But there are differences at different levels. For instance, in higher level mixed doubles, it is also pretty common for men to play deuce side and women the ad side. Whereas at 3.5 and whatnot, there is this macho thing about men playing ad side. When I see a woman returning deuce side, I feast on my kick serve down the T, which she can almost never return. It’s like an automatic point. That’s why I almost never see it at 4.5+. At lower levels no one can consistently serve down the T, so you can mask a weakness by having the woman play deuce side.

 

[J011yroger]

But there are differences at different levels. For instance, in higher level mixed doubles, it is also pretty common for men to play deuce side and women the ad side. Whereas at 3.5 and whatnot, there is this macho thing about men playing ad side. When I see a woman returning deuce side, I feast on my kick serve down the T, which she can almost never return. It’s like an automatic point. That’s why I almost never see it at 4.5+. At lower levels no one can consistently serve down the T, so you can mask a weakness by having the woman play deuce side.

In 9.0 and 10.0 men almost always play ad.

J

 

[Dartagnan64]

But there are differences at different levels. For instance, in higher level mixed doubles, it is also pretty common for men to play deuce side and women the ad side. Whereas at 3.5 and whatnot, there is this macho thing about men playing ad side. When I see a woman returning deuce side, I feast on my kick serve down the T, which she can almost never return. It’s like an automatic point. That’s why I almost never see it at 4.5+. At lower levels no one can consistently serve down the T, so you can mask a weakness by having the woman play deuce side.

And when you see a woman playing ad side, do you not also feast on the kick serve out wide?

If you can hit kicks to a woman's BH, it doesn't matter where she lines up, you are going to get a lot of easy points. The thing is, if she is in the ad court, an easy point will win the game. In the deuce court, it just ends in ad in.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

In 9.0 and 10.0 men almost always play ad.

J

Interesting. Not saying it never happens, but my experience has been different.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

And when you see a woman playing ad side, do you not also feast on the kick serve out wide?

If you can hit kicks to a woman's BH, it doesn't matter where she lines up, you are going to get a lot of easy points. The thing is, if she is in the ad court, an easy point will win the game. In the deuce court, it just ends in ad in.

Two things. One is that women often prefer returning kick serves from the ad side because they do not have to hit it inside out and it is easier for them to avoid the opposing net player. In addition, most strong women play ad side in regular adult doubles, so they are more comfortable over there in general. Is a kick serve still very effective? Yes. But is it an automatic lost point? No.

Secondly, if you have a dominant male player in the deuce court, there are not going to be many/any game points against her in the ad side. This relieves tons of pressure from her and allows her to play the game points pressure free, which gets better results.

Here are both women playing ad side. Still disadvantaged, but it could be worse on the deuce side.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Two things. One is that women often prefer returning kick serves from the ad side because they do not have to hit it inside out and it is easier for them to avoid the opposing net player. In addition, most strong women play ad side in regular adult doubles, so they are more comfortable over there in general. Is a kick serve still very effective? Yes. But is it an automatic lost point? No.

Secondly, if you have a dominant male player in the deuce court, there are not going to be many/any game points against her in the ad side. This relieves tons of pressure from her and allows her to play the game points pressure free, which gets better results.

Here are both women playing ad side. Still disadvantaged, but it could be worse on the deuce side.

I think I once reviewed all the pro mixed doubles vids and found it was pretty even ad and deuce for the lady player. It's probably a comfort thing more than a tactical thing.

As i said, pros can return serves on the ad side better than rec females where any serve to the BH is going to be a point for the serving side 9 times out of 10. I find the easiest poach in tennis is the ad serve to a woman's (or any weaker players bh). It's hard for them to hit anything but CC. The chip lob is a challenge since it requires changing direction on an outside ball so there is a big tendency to sail it wide left. From the deuce side, hitting a BH chip lob behind the poaching net player is much easier since it's an inside ball. I've had several ladies adeptly place those balls over my head.

When I play mixed with my wife, she plays deuce and I play ad. Her CC FH return is a weapon against any server trying to go out wide. She can whip that thing low and sharp angled for winners half the time. I have a solid 2HBH return that I can take DTL or CC and my inside-in FH on second serves can definitely catch the opposing net man by surprise. So it works into our strengths to play that way.

We play socially against a couple that's fairly evenly matched with us and they mix it up. When she is in the ad court we tend to dominate and it's much closer when she plays deuce. I've noticed they don't mix it up much any more.

 

[travlerajm]

In 9.0 and 10.0 men almost always play ad.

J

I think this is mainly because when the guy is right handed, he can more easily cover overheads on both sides from ad court. This in turn allows the gal to ‘cheat’ closer to the net, taking away the effectiveness of ‘hit to the girl’ strategy.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

I think this is mainly because when the guy is right handed, he can more easily cover overheads on both sides from ad court. This in turn allows the gal to ‘cheat’ closer to the net, taking away the effectiveness of ‘hit to the girl’ strategy.

Good point

 

[J011yroger]

I think this is mainly because when the guy is right handed, he can more easily cover overheads on both sides from ad court. This in turn allows the gal to ‘cheat’ closer to the net, taking away the effectiveness of ‘hit to the girl’ strategy.

That's a big part of it.

J

 

[kevrol]

The thing is, if she is in the ad court, an easy point will win the game. In the deuce court, it just ends in ad in.

That's why I always play the ad court when I'm the stronger partner. Although I've heard the argument that you may not even get to ad if the stronger person plays the deuce court.

 

[Dartagnan64]

That's why I always play the ad court when I'm the stronger partner. Although I've heard the argument that you may not even get to ad if the stronger person plays the deuce court.

I think it depends on who the better pressure player is. If you can't handle pressure as the stronger player, getting into the deuce court might make it easier to win games since you won't feel as much pressure there. If you are a pressure player and relish fighting off a few ad in's until you get that one ad out, then play the ad court.

But the FH to the middle is also a good argument for stronger playing ad more often. Gives you more opportunities on Overheads and balls down the middle.

 

[Cindysphinx]

My 3.5/4.0 view of things in mixed is that:

(1) The weaker player -- that would be me -- should choose which side to play.
(2) At the lower levels, you want the guy's overhead in the middle; both players might be equally inconsistent but the guy will have more power for when he actually does find the court.
(3) Nobody has a decent kick serve.
(4) The woman might -- I said "might" -- have the stronger BH volley when already at net because a lot of guys don't, you know, take instruction.