Doubles signals--what do you use?

The reason the net partner of the server takes a step towards the alley on wide serves is because of the danger of the returner hitting a down-the-alley return. From what I understand from his posts, Dartagnan plays against 4.0 players in Canada where there is presumably no USTA computer rating and also mixed doubles with his wife who is lower in level than him. So, I think he is suggesting strategies that might work for him against his opponents, but will not work against computer-rated 4.5+ players in the US. I don’t even know if he uses signaled poaches much at the level he plays.

I have used signalled poaches but most of my 3.5-4.0 level partners just get thrown off. As I've said, most people aren't just that into it so keeping it simple sometimes works best. The odd times I get paired with a 4.5 level player, my strategy works even better since their serves are even harder to change direction on. So almost all balls get returned down the middle and are ripe for poaching.

At the end of the day, these are all just guidelines to decide what is high-% and what is low-%. The caliber of the server, the quality of the returner and the volley/explosive movement skills of the net player will ultimately determine which tactics will be most successful.

This is the big thing. Simple concepts only go so far and if some one is ripping outside balls DTL, you accept that's in his wheelhouse and adapt. If signalling leads to your partner DF'ing too often, then you adapt and simplify. In my experience guys aren't into signals that much and the DTL ball from behind the baseline is at best a 50:50 ball, so that's where my experience is coming from.
 
One serious question i do have is that Why do so few guys use the signals and signs ? even at advanced levels like 4.5 and even at intermediate 4.0 levels. I understand that we often have different partners but so what ??

There are several reasons why I think many players are reluctant to use signals.

1). They play at 4.0 or below and are just not used to it. Mostly, they play 1-back doubles and think that when they serve, they can hold their own from the baseline and win points without help from their net partner. At the level they play, their net guy botches more easy volleys than he hits for winners. They don’t think of holding serve as a group effort with their net partner, but solely their responsibility. Basically, they want to stay in their comfort zone and it stresses them to do something new.
2). They cannot serve to locations and don’t want to embarrass themselves in the eyes of their partners by demonstrating this. As someone mentioned above, asking a low level player to serve to locations causes them to double fault or reduces their first serve % tremendously. I find that even some low 4.5 players cannot serve to locations and get stressed by serve location signals. In this case, I have started using only poach/no poach signals without signaling serve location which seems to be acceptable for more players.
3). If you signal an intentional poach it requires explosive movement to the other side not only by the net partner, but also by the server to quickly move to cover the other side of the court. Many servers are not used to this quick movement and move too slow to cover the other side competently if the ball is returned DTL behind the poaching net player. If they S/V, they are not used to making a transition volley on the other side of the court for a DTL return because they have never practiced it. This is a big impediment for older 40+ 4.5 players who might find it difficult to make explosive movements or don’t want to do it when they are serving.
4). If I’m not familiar with my partner and we are playing new opponents whose strengths/weaknesses we don’t know yet, it is also possible that my partner does not read the other team quickly and makes serve location signals that I think are wise especially as they don’t know my serve location strengths/preferences - with a new partner, I’m more reluctant to stay ‘No’ to location signals they give me when I’m serving. I’m a lefty and my slice wide serve on ad is very effective in getting return errors or easy volleys for my net partner even without a signaled poach - so, I would want them to call it more than they would with a righty server and a brand new partner would not know this. So, one more reason to be careful about using serve location signals initially with a new partner as it might be counter-productive in the first couple of service games before we have a chance to see each other’s best and weakest serves.

When I have to play with a new partner for the first time, I first evaluate during the warmup if they look like a solid 4.5+ player or I won’t even suggest using signals. If they look good, I will bring it up before the start of the first point and see how they respond. If they respond with enthusiasm, then I know that they are used to it and we will try it - if they don’t sound enthusiastic, I’ll drop the topic. Even if we decide to use signals, I’ll ask if they want to do it for serve location also or only for poach/no poach and I’ve found that many players don’t want to use location signals.

If my partner and I are not using signals due to not knowing each other while our opponents are signaling both serve location and intentional poaches, I know that we are in serious trouble as we are playing an experienced doubles team and most of the time, the result of the match is a foregone conclusion.
 
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I find the signals to be quite obscene hehehehe. Pointing out to someone where Uranus is located is not a good idea.

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I don't understand the people who use signals about every single little thing as my brain is too small and too smooth for those type of things. However, I've learned that (for my friends and I) the fist means that the net player will stay, the open hand means they will poach, and the peace sign means they will fake. Meanwhile, for serve direction I've used the pinky down, thumb to the right, etc. I also use the middle finger down to both get a laugh out of my partner and to tell them to hit a body serve if they can.
 
I don't understand the people who use signals about every single little thing as my brain is too small and too smooth for those type of things. However, I've learned that (for my friends and I) the fist means that the net player will stay, the open hand means they will poach, and the peace sign means they will fake. Meanwhile, for serve direction I've used the pinky down, thumb to the right, etc. I also use the middle finger down to both get a laugh out of my partner and to tell them to hit a body serve if they can.
You admitted in another post that you are a sadistic pusher in singles - that doesn’t fit the profile of someone who uses doubles signals proficientlyo_O

The signals you use are the most common. A couple of variants are:

- Making a flapping motion with an open hand to signal a fake poach. I haven’t seen a peace symbol used for this.
- When the net guy is in I-formation, he may just signal the direction he will move to (just like the serve location) by pointing with his pinkie or thumb that he is going left or right. Once that is acknowledged, he will signal the serve location.
- Some very high level teams might show poach/no poach and/or serve location for second serves also. They might do it after the first serve is an error or on occasion, I have seen pro teams signal everything at the start - this is confusing to keep track of four separate signals unless you are used to it and have played with your partner a lot. You might need to be young too as most 50-year olds can barely remember the score.
 
You admitted in another post that you are a sadistic pusher in singles - that doesn’t fit the profile of someone who uses doubles signals proficientlyo_O

The signals you use are the most common. A couple of variants are:

- Making a flapping motion with an open hand to signal a fake poach. I haven’t seen a peace symbol used for this.
- When the net guy is in I-formation, he may just signal the direction he will move to (just like the serve location) by pointing with his pinkie or thumb that he is going left or right. Once that is acknowledged, he will signal the serve location.
- Some very high level teams might show poach/no poach and/or serve location for second serves also. They might do it after the first serve is an error or on occasion, I have seen pro teams signal everything at the start - this is confusing to keep track of four separate signals unless you are used to it and have played with your partner a lot. You might need to be young too as most 50-year olds can barely remember the score.
Haha yes you are most definitely correct I am what you say I am.
I played a variety of singles and doubles in JV high school until I committed to singles when I got into varsity in my junior year. That all changed when I got into college club tennis, as now I have to be able to play both should someone in my team needs to be subbed out.
 
Essentially every reputable doubles source will tell the net player to step to the middle or poach on serves down the middle and shade to the DTL shot when serves are wide. I have never heard of anyone recommending poach or move to the middle on a wide serve. If this works, it must be at a level that returners do not have directional control, as it opens the court for one of the easiest possible winners in doubles.
It's definitely a common/ known tactic that works up to a fairly high level. Our coach had us do it in d3 at the lower lines a lot.

If they don't prove they can really punish you dtl on reaction then go for it. A lot of guys have trouble taking a really wide serve and redirecting it well enough that the baseline can't get there for a normal rally ball, even if they pass the netman.
 
There are several reasons why I think many players are reluctant to use signals.

1). They play at 4.0 or below and are just not used to it. Mostly, they play 1-back doubles and think that when they serve, they can hold their own from the baseline and win points without help from their net partner. At the level they play, their net guy botches more easy volleys than he hits for winners. They don’t think of holding serve as a group effort with their net partner, but solely their responsibility. Basically, they want to stay in their comfort zone and it stresses them to do something new.
2). They cannot serve to locations and don’t want to embarrass themselves in the eyes of their partners by demonstrating this. As someone mentioned above, asking a low level player to serve to locations causes them to double fault or reduces their first serve % tremendously. I find that even some low 4.5 players cannot serve to locations and get stressed by serve location signals. In this case, I have started using only poach/no poach signals without signaling serve location which seems to be acceptable for more players.
3). If you signal an intentional poach it requires explosive movement to the other side not only by the net partner, but also by the server to quickly move to cover the other side of the court. Many servers are not used to this quick movement and move too slow to cover the other side competently if the ball is returned DTL behind the poaching net player. If they S/V, they are not used to making a transition volley on the other side of the court for a DTL return because they have never practiced it. This is a big impediment for older 40+ 4.5 players who might find it difficult to make explosive movements or don’t want to do it when they are serving.
4). If I’m not familiar with my partner and we are playing new opponents whose strengths/weaknesses we don’t know yet, it is also possible that my partner does not read the other team quickly and makes serve location signals that I think are wise especially as they don’t know my serve location strengths/preferences - with a new partner, I’m more reluctant to stay ‘No’ to location signals they give me when I’m serving. I’m a lefty and my slice wide serve on ad is very effective in getting return errors or easy volleys for my net partner even without a signaled poach - so, I would want them to call it more than they would with a righty server and a brand new partner would not know this. So, one more reason to be careful about using serve location signals initially with a new partner as it might be counter-productive in the first couple of service games before we have a chance to see each other’s best and weakest serves.

When I have to play with a new partner for the first time, I first evaluate during the warmup if they look like a solid 4.5+ player or I won’t even suggest using signals. If they look good, I will bring it up before the start of the first point and see how they respond. If they respond with enthusiasm, then I know that they are used to it and we will try it - if they don’t sound enthusiastic, I’ll drop the topic. Even if we decide to use signals, I’ll ask if they want to do it for serve location also or only for poach/no poach and I’ve found that many players don’t want to use location signals.

If my partner and I are not using signals due to not knowing each other while our opponents are signaling both serve location and intentional poaches, I know that we are in serious trouble as we are playing an experienced doubles team and most of the time, the result of the match is a foregone conclusion.


I agree with this. but they are still Morans for not using the signal. It is so easy to do and if done consistently even with different partners, it will drastically increase the chance of winning, or get you more points.
 
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