Doubles situation - What’s the best play?

eah123

Hall of Fame
I’m receiving partner. After making a strong topspin return, I move up to second volley position at the service line. The crosscourt opponent sends a lob over my head. I have to run back to the baseline to hit it. Crosscourt opponent moves up to service line.

What I did and what happened: I yelled for my partner to move back and tried a cross court lob. Ball was hit at my partner as a volley while they were backing up. We lose the point.

What do you think was the right play in this situation?
 

Dragy

Legend
If you were around service line, why didn’t you OH his lob? Was it so good?

If it was so good, and you hit a lob back to restore the point, but it ended up short/low for him to volley, well… hit better lob next time! Nothing wrong with your play.
 

ngoster

Semi-Pro
If it was so good, and you hit a lob back to restore the point, but it ended up short/low for him to volley, well… hit better lob next time! Nothing wrong with your play.
Adding to this, was your partner caught in no-man's land while backing up? If so, maybe only back up to the service line and square up to the hitter. Sometimes, this is the best chance at getting another shot back.

Also, if both opponents were at the service line and you have a shot, a better shot would be a heavy topspin that dips below the net and at their feet (preferably on their BH side).
 

nyta2

Legend
I’m receiving partner. After making a strong topspin return, I move up to second volley position at the service line. The crosscourt opponent sends a lob over my head. I have to run back to the baseline to hit it. Crosscourt opponent moves up to service line.

What I did and what happened: I yelled for my partner to move back and tried a cross court lob. Ball was hit at my partner as a volley while they were backing up. We lose the point.

What do you think was the right play in this situation?
how i would play it, as the net person...
once i see that you are not going to take the lob as an overhead, i presume you're going to lob, and i presume the opponents are coming to net...
i move back ideally to the baseline (or however far i can move back but still split on their contact)
only if the lob goes over their head would i move back up,...
if the opponents were not making a move forward (hardly happens at 4.5... usually at least the net person is pinching to the center looking for an overhead)... that's the only time i wouldn't move back.

you shouldn't have to communicate this... but if i'm playing mixed (8.0 or 9.0) i might say "back"
 

eah123

Hall of Fame
Thanks for replies so far, @Dragy @ngoster @nyta2 When I have a difficult shot to make like running back for a lob, almost always my instinct is to lob crosscourt because it’s the safest to get it in the court and gives me time to recover. But the main risk is it is slightly short and gets hit at my partner, which is what happened on this point.

I was just wondering if anybody thought these would be better:
1) cross court topspin drive - risk is that partner is in danger
2) down the line drive, aiming for the alley - good chance for the winner and I’m in position if it gets volleyed back
3) down the line lob - gives my partner time to get back to baseline, if it goes over there head we can retake the net, if it gets volleyed back, I’m in position to take it.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
When a doubles team has two players at net and a lob is good enough to go over their heads without a chance to hit an overhead, they are in trouble and will lose a majority of those points. The best solution is to hit your shots/returns well enough where an opponent cannot hit a deep lob that can’t be smashed away. Just in case it happens, your best option is to throw up a high defensive lob that hopefully is also deep and does not present an easy smash for your opponents. If it is a high, deep lob, at least it gives your partner time to get back behind the baseline and there are two of you on defense against the smash.

But, if an opposing team is lobbing at will over your heads, your team’s shots are not good enough for the server/returner to come to net and you are better off playing 1-back. Your team didn’t hit a ‘strong, topspin return’ if the opposing team could lob it over both your heads without a chance for an overhead.
 

Dragy

Legend
Thanks for replies so far, @Dragy @ngoster @nyta2 When I have a difficult shot to make like running back for a lob, almost always my instinct is to lob crosscourt because it’s the safest to get it in the court and gives me time to recover. But the main risk is it is slightly short and gets hit at my partner, which is what happened on this point.

I was just wondering if anybody thought these would be better:
1) cross court topspin drive - risk is that partner is in danger
2) down the line drive, aiming for the alley - good chance for the winner and I’m in position if it gets volleyed back
3) down the line lob - gives my partner time to get back to baseline, if it goes over there head we can retake the net, if it gets volleyed back, I’m in position to take it.
If you run back, lob is high percentage. You can keep in mind which opponent has weaker OH to choose where to lob. From deuce corner you may prefer to lob down the alley to make OH more tough for them to pull out. But overall, unless they are absolutely crushing overheads, a high deep lob is best option. As you report you got volleyed back at your partner, not smashed by OH, again - just happens to be poor executed lob.
 

LuckyR

Legend
I’m receiving partner. After making a strong topspin return, I move up to second volley position at the service line. The crosscourt opponent sends a lob over my head. I have to run back to the baseline to hit it. Crosscourt opponent moves up to service line.

What I did and what happened: I yelled for my partner to move back and tried a cross court lob. Ball was hit at my partner as a volley while they were backing up. We lose the point.

What do you think was the right play in this situation?

Many variables in this seemingly simple scenario:

First, especially on a first serve your partner should also be in second volley position towards the T (to cover a poach of your return), but should be moving laterally and forwards towards second volley position as your return bypasses the opposing netman.

Second, I have much, much (did I mention: "much"?) better luck with chipped or sliced returns when charging the net off of a return (which I do >90% of the time). Because making the server strike the ball as low and short (and low paced) as possible forces them to hit up on the ball while I am in prime position to take such shots early for the putaway. As it happens it is very difficult to lob off of such a shot.

As others have noted it is extremely difficult to hit a lob over a player at second volley position without it being smashed (unless the returner is very short, can't jump or has little mobility which doesn't sound like your case). The better play would be to lob your partner who should be moving forward to second volley position.

Regardless, in my experience, assuming both partners have good mobility, if a lob is going to make it over one of two partners at the net, the non-lobbed partner generally has a better play on the ball as they are coming at the ball from the side (not from directly behind, which is more difficult).
 

nyta2

Legend
Thanks for replies so far, @Dragy @ngoster @nyta2 When I have a difficult shot to make like running back for a lob, almost always my instinct is to lob crosscourt because it’s the safest to get it in the court and gives me time to recover. But the main risk is it is slightly short and gets hit at my partner, which is what happened on this point.

I was just wondering if anybody thought these would be better:
1) cross court topspin drive - risk is that partner is in danger
2) down the line drive, aiming for the alley - good chance for the winner and I’m in position if it gets volleyed back
3) down the line lob - gives my partner time to get back to baseline, if it goes over there head we can retake the net, if it gets volleyed back, I’m in position to take it.
easy answer is "learn to lob higher/deeper"...
but presuming you don't own that shot at the moment, go with whatever option you currently own, and hope for the best.
there are some scenarios where i'm in nml, say after a lob, and i don't have the best spacing/balance/etc... and a lob is kinda awkward (or i'm indoors, and the roof is not that high), but a drive is available/easier in-that-particular-position... then i would do my best to keep it low, and hope i get a second chance at a pass. i would prefer cc ideally, but let's say my body is not oriented the right way, i'll go with whatever direction my body is in that moment, will allow me to do "easily".

in general, if you go dtl, you're basically making the cc (to your partner), the highest percentage shot for your opponents. so it's worst for them if they are still moving back
 

ey039524

Hall of Fame
+1 to having your partner cover the cross court lob, if you can't hit an overhead off their lob.

Lobbing when both opponents are closing the net is a good option to turn defense into offense. Good lobs are tough, if your opponents practice their overheads, though. Sounds like the server did this to you.
 

RaymondC

New User
Your partner should have moved back immediately as soon as you were lobbed (you both needed to be looking at the opposing player’s racquet and thinking drive or lob). No time in this instance to call your partner back, as he’s already late. If you could have hit the overhead, your partner could then have then moved forward to hit a short, high return. If not, your partner should join you back at the baseline.

The right play was to lob to buy some time if the overhead wasn’t possible. Maybe your partner could have tracked down the lob but he’s probably not expecting a lob on the returner.
 
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Friedman Whip

Professional
Sounds like to me that you should chase down that first lob and hit my favorite shot. My version of the Bucharest backfire. Twist around as you hit the ball and hit it like a serve that barely crosses the net. Usually very effective.
 

Jono123

Professional
I’m receiving partner. After making a strong topspin return, I move up to second volley position at the service line. The crosscourt opponent sends a lob over my head. I have to run back to the baseline to hit it. Crosscourt opponent moves up to service line.

What I did and what happened: I yelled for my partner to move back and tried a cross court lob. Ball was hit at my partner as a volley while they were backing up. We lose the point.

What do you think was the right play in this situation?

Hold the line. No retreat.
 

fecund345

Semi-Pro
I’m receiving partner. After making a strong topspin return, I move up to second volley position at the service line. The crosscourt opponent sends a lob over my head. I have to run back to the baseline to hit it. Crosscourt opponent moves up to service line.

What I did and what happened: I yelled for my partner to move back and tried a cross court lob. Ball was hit at my partner as a volley while they were backing up. We lose the point.

What do you think was the right play in this situation?
I didnt come up with this tactic. It just a switch. However. The key is for the the server to replace the net person's position. Not just running to that side of the court along the baseline.


 

TheBoom

Hall of Fame
I’m receiving partner. After making a strong topspin return, I move up to second volley position at the service line. The crosscourt opponent sends a lob over my head. I have to run back to the baseline to hit it. Crosscourt opponent moves up to service line.

What I did and what happened: I yelled for my partner to move back and tried a cross court lob. Ball was hit at my partner as a volley while they were backing up. We lose the point.

What do you think was the right play in this situation?
No right answer, but in my mind there are two options. The first is the moment the lob is thrown up, your partner could immediately move back with you to the baseline. This is a very conservative play, and not what I'd do, but I've seen it done and it keeps the partner out of the line of fire.

The second option is for your partner to move up and be aggressive. That takes a lot more trust and commitment on their part because you'd have to hit a decent enough ball for them not to get pegged, but assuming you did, they're in a strong position to finish the point.

My general rule of thumb is if you have to say anything in the point other than "mine" on a 50/50 ball, you need to practice with your partner more. And if your partner's approach doesn't jive with yours, you should find another partner.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
The best play is the one that you can execute well at a reasonably high-% OR the one that preys on your opponent‘s weaknesses. If you don’t hit good defensive lobs well and the other team has good overheads, maybe it is not the best shot for you. If you can’t hit dipping topspin low over the net to the alleys, then that is not the shot for you.

On the other hand, if the opponents don’t smash well, even an average lob can get the job done to stay in the point. Similarly if the opposing net guy makes a lot of volley errors, you might get away with hitting a defensive shot to the middle of the court where the net guy is going to be waiting.

So, you have to know your limitations and your opponent’s limitations well to make high-% decisions on the court especially on defense.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
Assuming both opponents were of equal ability, I would have gone for a higher than normal, deep TS lob CC, more toward the center. Give yourself and you partner time to move back, set your feet and create some confusion amongst your opponents on who should take it.

If they hit a winner, kudos to them. Can't win every point.
 

johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
Sounds like to me that you should chase down that first lob and hit my favorite shot. My version of the Bucharest backfire. Twist around as you hit the ball and hit it like a serve that barely crosses the net. Usually very effective.
This is a cool shot. Hard to learn?
 

Wander

Hall of Fame
This is a cool shot. Hard to learn?
That is a cool shot indeed. I don't think it's too hard to learn at this sort of level


Also reminded me of this late classic Federer point although he didn't have time to do the turnaround so an even more unusual shot here:

 
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