Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
I wanna watch JoelDali play tennis.
Legend of Borg
G.O.A.T.
JD is probably locked in a 5 set battle against Jolly as we speak, while sporting his Isner GHOAT and Golden Eagle Vapors of sexi rogi class.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
That's been one of our problems in past discussions.
Sometimes I don't write in all the nuances of what I'm saying. I don't think many people do.
But for the record. Here's my position.
In the past, I did dislike Federer, but now as he gets older and possibly soon out of the game, it's hard even as a non-fan to see how the media keeps jerking him around.
I respect his achievements and think he's brought much to the game, and after Wimbledon 2008 my opinion of him changed. I was one of the first to acknowledge his great play even in defeat, because he fought tooth and nail for the right to retain his crown.
That's one of the reasons that I wasn't a big fan of Roger's. For me, he didn't always display that fighting spirit until the end.
Do I hate him? Absolutely not.
And I understand how many of his fans feel as he goes through this difficult period, because I experienced it with Pete.
All I can say is keep believing, because stranger things have happened.
You're a pretty nice poster. I enjoy reading your p.o.v
.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
McEnroe changed his opinion, because he's allowing truth to break out, rather than the tennis PTB's desire for every commentator to pump the present-day player (like Federer or Nadal) as the GOAT. He feels the sport cannot survive (in the eyes of audiences) if the present day players are packaged as the "best," but McEnroe's true feelings are starting to emerge.
Bud
Bionic Poster
Nice to see the OP looking at this subject with an open mind
Federer's place in history as one of the greatest to play the game is already set. Nadal's place in history as one of the greatest to play the game is already set. If Nadal passes Federer in GS titles, he will simply be the more accomplished player in GS tournaments within the Open Era, not the GOAT.
In other words, the mythic tennis GOAT does not exist. It's a construct of egotistical, forum-posting fanboys/fangirls and zealous commentators who are paid to stir the pot. Sorry to burst your bubbles :mrgreen:
It would be great if people could simply respect each player for what each has accomplished and enjoy this special time in tennis history. It's likely we'll never see it repeated.
Federer's place in history as one of the greatest to play the game is already set. Nadal's place in history as one of the greatest to play the game is already set. If Nadal passes Federer in GS titles, he will simply be the more accomplished player in GS tournaments within the Open Era, not the GOAT.
In other words, the mythic tennis GOAT does not exist. It's a construct of egotistical, forum-posting fanboys/fangirls and zealous commentators who are paid to stir the pot. Sorry to burst your bubbles :mrgreen:
It would be great if people could simply respect each player for what each has accomplished and enjoy this special time in tennis history. It's likely we'll never see it repeated.
icedevil0289
G.O.A.T.
That's been one of our problems in past discussions.
Sometimes I don't write in all the nuances of what I'm saying. I don't think many people do.
But for the record. Here's my position.
In the past, I did dislike Federer, but now as he gets older and possibly soon out of the game, it's hard even as a non-fan to see how the media keeps jerking him around.
I respect his achievements and think he's brought much to the game, and after Wimbledon 2008 my opinion of him changed. I was one of the first to acknowledge his great play even in defeat, because he fought tooth and nail for the right to retain his crown.
That's one of the reasons that I wasn't a big fan of Roger's. For me, he didn't always display that fighting spirit until the end.
Do I hate him? Absolutely not.
And I understand how many of his fans feel as he goes through this difficult period, because I experienced it with Pete.
All I can say is keep believing, because stranger things have happened.
You're a pretty nice poster. I enjoy reading your p.o.v
probably seemed that way because for the most part he made everything seem so easy. but yeah I admired how he fought that much. I remember him saying it was the toughest loss of his career. despite his tears in AO 2009, I do think wimbledon 2008 will always be his worst loss.
and I think pete's decline happened faster than fed's decline. fed is actually declining at a moderate pace.
tbh I think fed fans and even nadal fans to a certain extent are spoiled. we've gotten so much, so we should be grateful. I mean if we find this difficult, I could only imagine how it was to be fans of players like safin, or nalby, or someone of that sort.
and thanks.
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Legend of Borg
G.O.A.T.
It just sounds like you're endorsing his opinion as "truth" because it suits you.
Why wasn't he telling the truth before?
Also, why would anyone assume his opinion will remain the same forever?
What will you say if he were to abandon Nadal and proclaim another successful player in the future as GOAT, just because said player is hot stuff at the moment?
Is that truth?
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
If you can't get a ticket for a Fed match, get a seat for a Frank Dancevic match...he plays exactly the same and it's cheaper.
Djokovic hasn't won a slam outside of Australia. Djokovic is a step above Roddick, not better than prime Federer, Nadal, Sampras, Agassi, Llendl, ect.
Fed Kennedy
Legend
still GOATing
I really, really believe you. Honestly I sincerely, without a doubt, believe you. I do believe you.
N
nikdom
Guest
I don't think suresh is implying Djokovic is better because of his current achievements to overshadow past players.
What is indisputable is that he's playing a brand of tennis that is more athletic and evolved in certain respects than the past. Agassi himself has marveled at how well the guy changes direction on his shots to go DTL on both wings. BG, who was Agassi's coach, remarked on Djokovic's return of serve being in the same league as his former student.
I don't think its time yet to pass judgment on Djokovic's career. He's only 24 and starting to get into the prime of his game.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
I think the GOAT argument is one of the dumbest things discussed in tennis. How can there be a GOAT when each generation has different variables? You can't compare players from different eras when there are so many differences between those eras.
Re best of his era however, for me, Roger Federer is the best of his era and his recent FO final has not changed that opinion for me. Why would it? That loss does not detract from all of the accomplishments Federer has won over the years. In fact this FO impressed me more because Roger at almost 30 years old defeated Novak Djokovic something Nadal was not able to do in his last 4 attempts.
Right now Roger is ahead of Nadal in terms of achievements and he is a better all surface player. Nadal is the king of clay but he has yet to prove himself as an all court player the way Federer has. These factors plus the slam count and other achievements tell me Roger is still the greater player. Nadal may be able to surpass Roger's achievements and if he does, only at that time will I consider him to be the greater player. The h2h in favor of Nadal is not enough for me to think that Nadal is the superior player. That is only one statistic and it far from tells the whole story. All it tells me is Nadal is the superior clay court player period. Nadal needs to win many more non-clay court slams before he can be considered in the same league as Federer across all surfaces other than clay. JMO.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
This is exactly right. People are fickle. If Federer defeated Nadal at the FO in addition to his beat down of Djokovic, he would have been praised as the greatest thing since time began. Now that he lost to Nadal yet again at the FO on clay (big surprise there!), people question his greatness? Too stupid.
He will win another slam shortly I am pretty certain and then the moronic GOAT talks will start up once again and Federer will be hailed as the best ever. People seem to just recognize the last defeat or last win which is silly when you have a player who has achieved so many things in the past 9 years or so.
Exactly my though as well, ill love to see Nadal do this but i dont see it happenning much less as he will start to slow down in a year or two
Tennis_Monk
Hall of Fame
Roger Federer is the closest one can get to a Tennis GOAT.
If some people dont see it that way or cant fathom that fact.....too bad.
16 slams is not a joke.
If some people dont see it that way or cant fathom that fact.....too bad.
16 slams is not a joke.
I am hearing this slowing down thing since 2005 and the only thing I see, till today, is Nadal winning the big ones over and over again.
Tennis_Monk
Hall of Fame
There will never be undisputed greatests. Atleast not thus far. Among the players we have thus far, Roger Federer is the closest to being the greatest.
I am sure old timers/people still stuck in dinosaur era of tennis might tend to bring in some great players from bygones era and throw a bunch of variables and try to sell a mean bill of GOAT good. Well...whatever floats their boat.
Ofcourse Rafa owned Roger. I just dont see how it is a big factor. May be it is for some posters. In such scenario, i can also argue that, neither of GOAT candidates have ever beat many of TW forum members in a tennis match.How can they call themselves GOAT when they are yet to beat some of the players armed with best tennis tips in the world ?
He didn't seem more evolved when an almost 30 year old Fed beat him in the semis.
IMO, GOAT status is pretty much from the past generation to present which arguably Federer is. Shouldn't include the future period. With that said Nadal or any other future player can be part of the conversation years from now.
Those who were once proclaimed GOAT in tennis will sure agree. Half of them probably couldn't even believed how the game has evolved. Some old footage even show their first serves aren't even as fast as second serves nowadays. Technology, strength, conditioning, media coverage, health personnel and all are all part of the evolution. Heck now we have players from around the world getting exposure where as back in the old times, it was almost focused in america and European countries.
I hope I make sense to some of you.
Those who were once proclaimed GOAT in tennis will sure agree. Half of them probably couldn't even believed how the game has evolved. Some old footage even show their first serves aren't even as fast as second serves nowadays. Technology, strength, conditioning, media coverage, health personnel and all are all part of the evolution. Heck now we have players from around the world getting exposure where as back in the old times, it was almost focused in america and European countries.
I hope I make sense to some of you.
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