DQ and RETROACTIVE LOSS OF GAMES

[larry10s]

a player for my clubs 4.0 mens team has played some 4.5 matches and 4.5 men senior matches
this is his first year and he self rated
hes lost matches and won at all levels
he gets bumped to 4.5
but the 4.0 team loses all the matches he played
doesnt seem fair to me
they can dq him and say you cant play more 4.0 matches going foward
but to retroactively dq all his 4.0 matches doesnt seem fair

lets say so0meone starts out 4.0
takes lessons and trains really hard
improves to 4.5 by years end
gets dq ed and forfeits all his 4.0 matches
no incentive to improve


what do you think??

 

[esgee48]

Why was he even playing 4.5? That was a bad decision on his part and the respective team captains. If he was C or B rated, then a bump up could occur mid season, but his team wouldn't be penalized if he only played 4.0. Playing 4.0 and 4.5 will get you DQ, unless you lose 0,0 or 1,1 at the 4.5 level. Any more games and the computer will start moving your dynamic rating upwards in a hurry. Lose 4,4 or 5,5 to 4.5's and you definitely will be bumped to 4.5.

 

[philxor]

Yeah don't play up during the same season...Stick with the lower level and if you do well enough to move up the next season so be it.

 

[J_R_B]

I agree that the reversal of match results is fairly draconian, but it's not like this is something new, either. It's been like this for years, and as others have said, playing up as a self-rate is just asking for this to happen.

 

[Kostas]

If he was C or B rated, then a bump up could occur mid season,

Actually this isn't even the case anymore. B and C are no longer eligible for mid-season dynamic disqualification.

I do agree with you other point tho...he shouldn't have been playing up. These rules have been in place for a while now. It comes as no surprise to most of us. Take your lumps and move on.

 

[Cindysphinx]

It's perfectly fair.

He had 4.5 skills, so his team shouldn't benefit from his beating up on people in a 4.0 league.

 

[michael_1265]

I realize that this kind of ruling is tough on teammates and the captain, but in the end, you should self-rate at the highest level that you can play, which in his case is 4.5. Some captains still find a way to beat the system even with this rule in place, which reinforces the fact that it is necessary.

 

[gameboy]

This is not a penalty on the player. This is penalty on the captain who should know better. If he has a self-rated player who is playing up, why would you bother playing him other than wanting to have DQ's???

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

If there is no real penalty then the cheating and sandbagging would be worse than it already is. Fact of the matter is that the captains of a self rated guy should know what they are getting into. I think the punishment has fit the crime.

 

[Jon Hampton]

a player for my clubs 4.0 mens team has played some 4.5 matches and 4.5 men senior matches
this is his first year and he self rated
hes lost matches and won at all levels
he gets bumped to 4.5
but the 4.0 team loses all the matches he played
doesnt seem fair to me
they can dq him and say you cant play more 4.0 matches going foward
but to retroactively dq all his 4.0 matches doesnt seem fair

lets say so0meone starts out 4.0
takes lessons and trains really hard
improves to 4.5 by years end
gets dq ed and forfeits all his 4.0 matches
no incentive to improve


what do you think??

A team in our league had this happen...they got the #1 player for the local high school to play in a 3.5 league. He started off as a 3.5 self-rate. His matches went like this:

Singles: 6-0, 6-1 W (vs self-rate)
Singles: 6-0, 6-3 W (vs self-rate)
Singles: 6-4, 6-2 W (vs computer)
Doubles: 6-0, 6-1 W (vs two computers)
Doubles: 6-0, 1-6, 1-0 L (vs two computers)
Singles: 6-1, 6-0 W (vs computer)

Needless to say he wasn't really a 3.5...and I completely agree that a team should be punished for knowingly playing a player like this. They played him too often at singles and after that last match, the retroactive DQ happened. We went from being #2 to #1 and went to Regionals in their place--and we made it to the State finals. Although it sucked that they had their entire season reversed, it's the captain's job to not put players who don't belong there into their league.

Oddly enough, this same team now has him on their 4.0 team. I still think he's closer to a 4.5, but only results this season will prove my hypothesis.

 

[larry10s]

but this guy LOST at both 4.0 matches and 4.5

 

[Carolina Racquet]

^^^ "Hal" the USTA computer does not like self-rated players playing up AND lop-sided victories and any victory against a player with a 'high' dynamic rating.

I agree that the captain should have a better understanding of the risks involved with using a self-rated player, especially at singles. Would have been better to have him playing doubles and let him know the risks of playing up.

But you have to put yourself in the shoes of your opponents. It does help to protect against a team loading up on self-rated players who are rated too low. If you got smoked against a guy who's self rated and you see he plays matches at the next level, you might feel differently.

 

[gameboy]

Larry, this gets repeated over and over again around here but people keep missing this point...

The computer does not care about wins and losses. The computer cares about whether or not the match was competitive. It does not matter if you lose EVERY match at 4.0. If all of those matches were 6-4, 6-4, that loser is still a 4.0.