DQ'd by an unknown rule

[Trainer]

Last weekend I was disqualified by a rule that prevented me from playing in both the 6.5 and 7.5 combo doubles championships in my region.

None of us on either team knew about this rule and no one at the USTA stopped us from entering the tourney based on the roster we submitted that clearly had my name in both teams.

What made it so maddening is that we were allowed to play enough matches so that my disqualification would knock us out of contention. We needed my wins to advance.

Also, the team that turned us in knew about this rule the first day and didn't say anything. Only after we defeated them, did they complain to the coordinator about it. So now, this team, the team we defeated, is moving on the the next round.

The USTA official at the tourney said it was up to our USTA Coordinator to know this rule, and would not budge on it. All of my matches were changed from a win to a loss.

 

[DANMAN]

What is the rule?--the residency rule?

 

[Nellie]

Eligibility rules vary by region. I think some regions say you can only go to playoffs with one team, so you cannot go with both 3.5 and 4.0 teams. I do know that there is a USTA-wide rule that say only so many players can play together on different teams at different levels (I think 2 players shared from the same team), so if you had other players on the rosters of both the 6.5 and 7.5 teams, your teams were in trouble, even if the players did not go to the playoffs. I think they had problems were the same group of players would when at muliple levels, thereby preventing any other players from advancing.

 

[cknobman]

There is a USTA rule stating that you can only play in playoffs or championships for ONE team regardless of level. During league play you can play on as many teams as you would like even if they are the same level but when it comes to playoffs or championships you must choose only ONE team to play for. I dont know the rule's name but I know it exists because I play on two teams and would have had to choose if both of them made the playoffs(luckily only the lower rated team made playoffs).

 

[kingdaddy41788]

It sounds like it's a rule that says you can't play both... But that would be pretty ridiculous.

 

[Trainer]

There is a 6.5 combo championship, and a 7.5 combo championship.

The rule is that you can only play in one of them even if your on two teams and both make it to the championship. Even though my rating permits me to play on each, you have to pick one of them.

 

[Raiden.Kaminari]

The rule that was most likely used against you was supposed to have been known by you and your own captain.

There is the possibility that you may have been disqualified by a move up / split up rule.

Blaming the system isn't correct if you claim ignorance of the rules.

 

[tennis-n-sc]

There is a 6.5 combo championship, and a 7.5 combo championship.

The rule is that you can only play in one of them even if your on two teams and both make it to the championship. Even though my rating permits me to play on each, you have to pick one of them.

I think it is a state or sectional rule. In SC for the state combo play, you can play on two teams but no exceptions are made for scheduling. If you are scheduled to play at the same time for both teams, you must pick. But each state is different as are sectionals.

But I have to agree with some of the other posters, your captain should have known all this long before you got on two teams. You aren't the captain, are you? Did you get disqualified from both teams?

 

[JavierLW]

Last weekend I was disqualified by a rule that prevented me from playing in both the 6.5 and 7.5 combo doubles championships in my region.

None of us on either team knew about this rule and no one at the USTA stopped us from entering the tourney based on the roster we submitted that clearly had my name in both teams.

What made it so maddening is that we were allowed to play enough matches so that my disqualification would knock us out of contention. We needed my wins to advance.

Also, the team that turned us in knew about this rule the first day and didn't say anything. Only after we defeated them, did they complain to the coordinator about it. So now, this team, the team we defeated, is moving on the the next round.

The USTA official at the tourney said it was up to our USTA Coordinator to know this rule, and would not budge on it. All of my matches were changed from a win to a loss.

Blame your captain for not knowing the rules.

Many rules are "unknown rules" for most players, but when you are the captain there is no excuse for not knowing this. Especially if you are lucky enough to get to this level of play.

 

[10sfreak]

Trainer, you weren't down in Bainbridge, were you? This happened to one of the teams in our draw - they got so mad about it, they left! I heard the captain even threatened legal action...

 

[Mark Jensen]

Rule #6

In the "2007 Southern BMW Combo Regulations".
"Players who qualify for Sectional Championships may advance on (one) adult and (one) senior team but may not advance on (two) adult or (two) senior teams."

Sorry the captain didn't read the rules...bad stuff.
My 6.5 team just won our state championship (two years running ) and we're having difficulties fielding enough players for Baton Rouge due to team mates going on in 7.5 and 8.5 as well.
It just sucks.
But at least I knew going into it...

 

[Hooooon]

"oh no, a fair rule!"

 

[Trainer]

Rules are rules, I'm not arguing that.

Question is, would you enter into a match with a team knowing that they unknowingly had someone that could be disqualified, and then after losing to them, complain to the event coordinator and get them disqualified?

That seems like some pretty poor sportsmanship to me.

Had they let us know, we could have subbed and been OK.

Seems like the sporting thing to do is let them know up front before you played.

 

[bleach]

How do you know that the other team knew you had played for another team? Sometimes the only way that teams/players find this stuff out is after the match looking up the records on Tennis Link. I know that after I play someone I go and look up that persons records. If I noticed something about the player that was not right, I would let my Captain know and he would do what he felt was right. Could this have been what happened?

I was playing 6.5 combo at State a few years back. Our team was out of it and was playing our last match. The other team was also out, and was having trouble getting players. My partner and I got pounded by these two guys. When I looked at Tennis Link, the guys we played were a 4.0 and 3.5 team. Remember this is 6.5! I showed my Captain and we decided that nothing would have come from filing a protest, so we let it go. Now, had that been a deciding match to advance, it would have been different.

 

[JavierLW]

Rules are rules, I'm not arguing that.

Question is, would you enter into a match with a team knowing that they unknowingly had someone that could be disqualified, and then after losing to them, complain to the event coordinator and get them disqualified?

That seems like some pretty poor sportsmanship to me.

Had they let us know, we could have subbed and been OK.

Seems like the sporting thing to do is let them know up front before you played.

It's not the other team's job to let you know, they dont make up your lineup, you do. They have enough to worry about going into the match without worrying about what your team is doing.

Perhaps they didnt notice until it was over. Depending on how those playoffs were run, they probally didnt know who you were putting out there until they walked out onto the court. (in most playoffs that Ive seen, the lineups get turned into the coordinators, and then they just call "#1 Doubles!!", even if they call specific names if they are walking onto the court to play a match, that's probally not the time to wonder if they are playing a legal player or not)

In any event, stop blaming the other team. It's not their job to keep you from making an illegal lineup, it's your captain's job and the coordinators. But once they lost, obviously they have a right to complain because you guys did not follow the rules.

You need to blame your captain for either failing to know the rules, or trying to get away with something. You cant hold the other team responsible for stopping your team from making a mistake.

 

[goober]

Rules are rules, I'm not arguing that.

Question is, would you enter into a match with a team knowing that they unknowingly had someone that could be disqualified, and then after losing to them, complain to the event coordinator and get them disqualified?

That seems like some pretty poor sportsmanship to me.

Had they let us know, we could have subbed and been OK.

Seems like the sporting thing to do is let them know up front before you played.

Pretty tenuous argument. You really can't question their sportsmanship based on you not knowing the rules and what your opponents may or may have not known ahead of time. Bottom line- you don't have anybody to blame except yourselves. Chalk it up as a learning experience. From what I have seen I would expect every team in playoffs and Nationals to act similar to what your opponents did.

 

[JLyon]

This is the problem with USTA leagues is the over abundance of local/district rules that conflict with National/Sectional Rules. We had combo this past weekend in AR and plenty of players were playing 2 divisions (6.5/7.5 or 7.5/7.5 Srs) also had the same thing with Mixed Doubles. The rule should only apply within a division, i.e. on a TN and AR team advancing to Sectionals.

 

[christophertowle]

The captains need to know the system. That is why they are paid the big bucks =).

Normally at sectionals or city, the event coordinator does a good job going over the number of eligible players for a given team. If there is a player that is not eligible for whatever reason they have it right there. Also, if you are on 2 teams that qualify for the "next" level, then you must declare to play for one of the teams and you can only play on that team until such time as their season ends (ie - they are eliminated). Then you can "rejoin" the other team.

I was on two teams that qualified for sectionals this year as Houston has HTA and NOHO (North Houston). I declared for the Noho team, we were eliminated at sectionals and then I rejoined the HTA team that went to Nationals.

It is a quirky system but the captains must know the rules in the end and advise their players accordingly.

It does seem kind of chickens**t to allow someone to go on the court, win a match and then win on technicality however. I would not want to play for a team that wins in this manner.

 

[JavierLW]

The captains need to know the system. That is why they are paid the big bucks =).

Normally at sectionals or city, the event coordinator does a good job going over the number of eligible players for a given team. If there is a player that is not eligible for whatever reason they have it right there. Also, if you are on 2 teams that qualify for the "next" level, then you must declare to play for one of the teams and you can only play on that team until such time as their season ends (ie - they are eliminated). Then you can "rejoin" the other team.

I was on two teams that qualified for sectionals this year as Houston has HTA and NOHO (North Houston). I declared for the Noho team, we were eliminated at sectionals and then I rejoined the HTA team that went to Nationals.

It is a quirky system but the captains must know the rules in the end and advise their players accordingly.

It does seem kind of chickens**t to allow someone to go on the court, win a match and then win on technicality however. I would not want to play for a team that wins in this manner.

It's not that team's fault they won in that manner. It's the other team's captain's fault.

I would not want to play for a team where my captain doesnt know an important rule like this. (or trys to win by figuring that he wont be caught)

 

[JLyon]

The captains need to know the system. That is why they are paid the big bucks =).

Normally at sectionals or city, the event coordinator does a good job going over the number of eligible players for a given team. If there is a player that is not eligible for whatever reason they have it right there. Also, if you are on 2 teams that qualify for the "next" level, then you must declare to play for one of the teams and you can only play on that team until such time as their season ends (ie - they are eliminated). Then you can "rejoin" the other team.

I was on two teams that qualified for sectionals this year as Houston has HTA and NOHO (North Houston). I declared for the Noho team, we were eliminated at sectionals and then I rejoined the HTA team that went to Nationals.

It is a quirky system but the captains must know the rules in the end and advise their players accordingly.

It does seem kind of chickens**t to allow someone to go on the court, win a match and then win on technicality however. I would not want to play for a team that wins in this manner.

What you describe is different. The original poster I believe was playing in 2 different levels (i.e. 6.5 & 7.5) not playing in the same division, but on 2 different teams (i.e. NOHO/Hou or DAL/FTW).
Really seems like a screwy and unusual rule.

 

[JavierLW]

What you describe is different. The original poster I believe was playing in 2 different levels (i.e. 6.5 & 7.5) not playing in the same division, but on 2 different teams (i.e. NOHO/Hou or DAL/FTW).
Really seems like a screwy and unusual rule.

That's actually the rule in a lot of areas. In my section it's the rule at the regional level but not the local level.

Although I do agree that it's a dumb rule for combo league.

In the regular Men's / Women's League, I think the rule is fine. It's sort of one more thing to punish you for having sandbaggers. Like lets say you just found a guy that is dominating both 3.5 and 4.0 because you had him self rate at 3.5.

It's just a small hinderance to those teams that they cant use that guy for BOTH levels.

But in Combo leagues I think it's stupid. By design any 3.5 player can play 6.5 and 7.5 and the league should want him to do it. (more money and more successful leagues) So it doesnt make sense to not allow him to play in both in the finals (although they dont have to accomidate scheduling for him)

But even so in the OP's case, that was the rule and the captain should of known that, so it's his fault for what happened.

 

[Trainer]

It's not that team's fault they won in that manner. It's the other team's captain's fault.

I would not want to play for a team where my captain doesnt know an important rule like this. (or trys to win by figuring that he wont be caught)

I think I already said that we are ultimately responsible for this, a couple of times.

However, I do think that the team that knew we were violating it could have showed a little sportsmanship and let us know before we played them.

Oh, and I am 100% certain that they knew BEFORE the match based on a conversation that was overheard.

 

[JavierLW]

I think I already said that we are ultimately responsible for this, a couple of times.

However, I do think that the team that knew we were violating it could have showed a little sportsmanship and let us know before we played them.

Oh, and I am 100% certain that they knew BEFORE the match based on a conversation that was overheard.

Well you are wasting your time if you are worryed about what the other team does.

They are responsible for what they do on the court, not for what you do. Why should they have to make a big stink about it before the match is even being played just because your team screwed up?

If it was me, I wouldnt be too concerned about it either. I just want to focus on the match and play tennis at that point, Im not going to waste my time babysitting you guys.

 

[Trainer]

Well you are wasting your time if you are worryed about what the other team does.

They are responsible for what they do on the court, not for what you do. Why should they have to make a big stink about it before the match is even being played just because your team screwed up?

If it was me, I wouldnt be too concerned about it either. I just want to focus on the match and play tennis at that point, Im not going to waste my time babysitting you guys.

So, you would play a team knowing beforehand that if you lost, you could just use this rule to disqualify them?

 

[Raiden.Kaminari]

So, you would play a team knowing beforehand that if you lost, you could just use this rule to disqualify them?

I don't think you get the point of ultimately taking responsibility for your own actions.

Maybe it will make you feel better if you get the board posters to agree with you. However, I see grievances like this all the time. And I usually rule in favor of the team following the rules, even if they do file the grievance late in the season.

You were on the team that decided to game the system as much as they can, and when they get caught, they start whining about how unfair the system is. Funny part is, teams like yours never admit that they actually cheated everyone most of the season.

 

[Trainer]

I don't think you get the point of ultimately taking responsibility for your own actions.

Maybe it will make you feel better if you get the board posters to agree with you. However, I see grievances like this all the time. And I usually rule in favor of the team following the rules, even if they do file the grievance late in the season.

You were on the team that decided to game the system as much as they can, and when they get caught, they start whining about how unfair the system is. Funny part is, teams like yours never admit that they actually cheated everyone most of the season.

All I can say is that 98% of that post is pure bullchit. Noone intentionally cheated, and you're a jerk for saying we did.

 

[JavierLW]

So, you would play a team knowing beforehand that if you lost, you could just use this rule to disqualify them?

Im just going to go play tennis when Im called. I had to already call 7-8 guys on MY OWN TEAM and line them up to play, why the heck should I worry about yours? It's not convienent for me and you cant expect me to police YOUR team.

When the match is over, and I found out you cheated, of course Im going to report it. (it's a pity that the league didnt find out) It's your teams fault for not knowing the rules.

Stop trying to assign any blame to the other team. There is no way they should have to break their focus and stop everything right before the match even starts just because your captain doesnt know the rules.

(and I doubt they would of known about it anyway, I dont think in most cases in a playoff you can even see the other teams lineup until you get called to play)

 

[Trainer]

Im just going to go play tennis when Im called. I had to already call 7-8 guys on MY OWN TEAM and line them up to play, why the heck should I worry about yours? It's not convienent for me and you cant expect me to police YOUR team.

When the match is over, and I found out you cheated, of course Im going to report it. (it's a pity that the league didnt find out) It's your teams fault for not knowing the rules.

Stop trying to assign any blame to the other team. There is no way they should have to break their focus and stop everything right before the match even starts just because your captain doesnt know the rules.

(and I doubt they would of known about it anyway, I dont think in most cases in a playoff you can even see the other teams lineup until you get called to play)

So, would you or wouldn't you?

 

[JavierLW]

So, would you or wouldn't you?

Im going to play whoever your captain sends out there, it's not up to me to police your team when we're more focused on just playing the match.

Ive been in plenty of situations like this (where the other team either did it on purpose or accident), and your teams first reaction to me Im sure is going to be that "it's okay, he's allowed to play". Or you can argue about the rules. Im not there to argue with you.

However if you actually go thru the act of playing with an illegal player I am going to complain about it. (whether we won or not because you shouldnt be able to use that player again if it's a round robin type situation)

Why do you even have to ask that question?

So, would you or wouldnt you actually look at the rules and make sure you dont do something that is against them?

 

[bleach]

So, you would play a team knowing beforehand that if you lost, you could just use this rule to disqualify them?

That's a tough question! In our local leagues the 2 captains exchange the lineups, verbally on the court. If the opposing captain put an illegal player, that I knew was illegal, (example 4.0 in a 3.5 league). Then I would say, "hey, wait a minute...". If he insisted then after the match I would protest.

But the times I've been to a District/Regional tournament, the Captains handed the lineups to a coordinator. If the opposing captain had already turned in his lineup, then you could see who was playing . If you'd done your homework, I guess you could identify an illegal player. In this case, I honestly don't know what I'd do, maybe talk to the coordinator....

But before I would protest (or turn someone in) I'd have to make darn sure I was right about it (for us filing a protest you have to put down some $$$). So guys talking about it, doesn't mean they were sure about it!

 

[JavierLW]

That's a tough question! In our local leagues the 2 captains exchange the lineups, verbally on the court. If the opposing captain put an illegal player, that I knew was illegal, (example 4.0 in a 3.5 league). Then I would say, "hey, wait a minute...". If he insisted then after the match I would protest.

But the times I've been to a District/Regional tournament, the Captains handed the lineups to a coordinator. If the opposing captain had already turned in his lineup, then you could see who was playing . If you'd done your homework, I guess you could identify an illegal player. In this case, I honestly don't know what I'd do, maybe talk to the coordinator....

But before I would protest (or turn someone in) I'd have to make darn sure I was right about it (for us filing a protest you have to put down some $$$). So guys talking about it, doesn't mean they were sure about it!

That's part of my point as well. Unless you brought a laptop with some sort of global wireless with you (while you were there to play tennis!), you dont know for sure.

And it's not your job to police their team anyway.

I agree that if it was in the local league you should say something. But I know in almost all cases, the other team will just deny it on the spot, you'll end up playing the match and then you'll have to sort it all out later.

(they will deny it either because they are trying to get away with something, or they dont really know the rule, so they will not take your word for it)

I think this whole line of blame transferance is silly. They are claiming to agree with us that they deserve ALL the blame for not knowing the rules, but then they keep digging into what the other teams motives are because it probally makes them feel better to assign some blame to someone else.

It's ALL your captain's fault for not know the rules. Spend your energy bothering him about it. Maybe he's a friend of yours and that's hard and it's easier to blame the other team, but you're wrong. It's not their job to police your team.

Otherwise what do you think should of happened? You should still be able to win even though you didnt follow the rules?

 

[Trainer]

I think that if I were in the other teams shoes, I'd say something about it.

Your mistake is saying that I'm blaming them. I'm not. I'm saying they are jerks for letting us lose that way.

 

[JavierLW]

I think that if I were in the other teams shoes, I'd say something about it.

Your mistake is saying that I'm blaming them. I'm not. I'm saying they are jerks for letting us lose that way.

You say they are "jerks", but you are not blaming them?

Well if you dont blame them for what you perceive that they've done, then why are they jerks?

You are accusing them of being "jerks", that's the same as blaming them no matter what you choose to believe.

Again, I think you just feel better directing some of your hard feelings about the whole event to them, rather than confront the one person who screwed you (your captain). It's his fault you're in this situation, not the so called "jerks".

Have it this way then: I AGREE with you, that I do not blame them either. What they did was completely fine and understandable and it wasnt their fault in any way.

Just because you want to perceive some personal moral code on "this is how I would do it", dont assume that everyone is a jerk for not subscribing to your beliefs. You are responsible for yourself, not other people, and if you do wrong, you only have yourself to blame. That's the way life goes....

 

[Trainer]

You say they are "jerks", but you are not blaming them?

Well if you dont blame them for what you perceive that they've done, then why are they jerks?

You are accusing them of being "jerks", that's the same as blaming them no matter what you choose to believe.

Again, I think you just feel better directing some of your hard feelings about the whole event to them, rather than confront the one person who screwed you (your captain). It's his fault you're in this situation, not the so called "jerks".

Have it this way then: I AGREE with you, that I do not blame them either. What they did was completely fine and understandable and it wasnt their fault in any way.

Are you unable to distinguish between blame and something else?

It's like seeing your opponent in a 100 yard dash with their shoe untied. You can say nothing and hope they fall on their face so you can win if you like. But a good sport would tell the guy his shoe was untied so they could have a fair race and the faster man actually wins. It may not be his fault that the shoe was untied, but it would still make him a jerk if he didn't say anything.

 

[JavierLW]

Are you unable to distinguish between blame and something else?

It's like seeing your opponent in a 100 yard dash with their shoe untied. You can say nothing and hope they fall on their face so you can win if you like. But a good sport would tell the guy his shoe was untied so they could have a fair race and the faster man actually wins. It may not be his fault that the shoe was untied, but it would still make him a jerk if he didn't say anything.

You are not able to assess the diffrence between blame and if someone is a jerk. Calling someone a jerk for doing something is the same as blaming them. Even in your example, you are blaming that person. (in that case I would blame them as well, they are putting winning above safety which most of us would consider to be wrong)

Your response is obviously going to be diffrent in either case.

If someone's shoe is untied, your first thought is that the guy just forgot to tie his shoe. You can tell him and he'll tie it, he wasnt trying to get away with anything by not doing it, and it's a safety issue. (you do know that's more important then winning or losing, dont you???)

If I see someone show up with an illegal player, Im sorry but my first reaction is that they are trying to get away with something.

I can bet you most people on this board would feel the same exact way (especially if they are like me and they actually look at the rules). Im not going to waste my time arguing with them since for whatever reason they obviously think that putting that player in is okay. It's not my responsibility, and I dont care if they lose because of it. Im there to play tennis (in the finals no less), not to babysit you guys.

 

[Trainer]

You are not able to assess the diffrence between blame and if someone is a jerk. Calling someone a jerk for doing something is the same as blaming them. Even in your example, you are blaming that person. (in that case I would blame them as well, they are putting winning above safety which most of us would consider to be wrong)

Your response is obviously going to be diffrent in either case.

If someone's shoe is untied, your first thought is that the guy just forgot to tie his shoe. You can tell him and he'll tie it, he wasnt trying to get away with anything by not doing it, and it's a safety issue. (you do know that's more important then winning or losing, dont you???)

If I see someone show up with an illegal player, Im sorry but my first reaction is that they are trying to get away with something.

I can bet you most people on this board would feel the same exact way (especially if they are like me and they actually look at the rules). Im not going to waste my time arguing with them since for whatever reason they obviously think that putting that player in is okay. It's not my responsibility, and I dont care if they lose because of it. Im there to play tennis (in the finals no less), not to babysit you guys.

I'm sorry to say that that makes you a jerk too.

When you step onto a court there is an unspoken agreement that you are there to earn the win by playing tennis. To feign some charade that the match really matters all the while knowing that you've already won it even if you don't win a single point is just dishonest and an indication of poor character.

 

[JavierLW]

I'm sorry to say that that makes you a jerk too.

When you step onto a court there is an unspoken agreement that you are there to earn the win by playing tennis. To feign some charade that the match really matters all the while knowing that you've already won it even if you don't win a single point is just dishonest and an indication of poor character.

That's funny. I think assigning blame on the victim here (and they are the victim because no matter how you look at it, they are the ones who had to waste their time pointing out that your team BROKE THE RULES), is an indication of poor character.

Your team broke the rules. Even if they didnt know what the rules are, that's still far worse than the guy who didnt tie his shoe.

But I understand, you think Im a jerk, and Im not even going to say what I think of you. Does that make you feel better?

 

[CAM178]

That's funny. I think assigning blame on the victim here (and they are the victim because no matter how you look at it, they are the ones who had to waste their time pointing out that your team BROKE THE RULES), is an indication of poor character.

Your team broke the rules. Even if they didnt know what the rules are, that's still far worse than the guy who didnt tie his shoe.

But I understand, you think Im a jerk, and Im not even going to say what I think of you. Does that make you feel better?

Dude, how many people do you have issues with on here? You just attacked me on another thread. Please deal with your issues before you come on this site. You are hands-down one of the rudest posters on here.

 

[Trainer]

That's funny. I think assigning blame on the victim here (and they are the victim because no matter how you look at it, they are the ones who had to waste their time pointing out that your team BROKE THE RULES), is an indication of poor character.

Your team broke the rules. Even if they didnt know what the rules are, that's still far worse than the guy who didnt tie his shoe.

But I understand, you think Im a jerk, and Im not even going to say what I think of you. Does that make you feel better?

No, but you're still a jerk. Noone was a victim. I'm not a ringer, and we had a sub at the match that could have stepped in and played just as good as me if not better.

 

[JavierLW]

No, but you're still a jerk. Noone was a victim. I'm not a ringer, and we had a sub at the match that could have stepped in and played just as good as me if not better.

Oh I see, now you admit that you are the player in question.

Well shame on you for not knowing the rules, and shame on your captain for not looking into the rules.

The other team was the victim. Had they not taken the time to complain, they would of been letting you go against the rules. If they have to waste their time before the match (which isnt their job), then they are even more the victim.

You are a victim too I suppose, but only because you didnt know the rules, and your captain (who's responsibility it is) didnt take the time to read all the rules. And it's a shame that the league didnt catch what you were doing when you submitted your lineups which meant that some other captain had to do their dirty work for them.

Face it, you didnt start this post to ask about the rules, you just did it to talk about "how those guys were jerks" so you can assess some blame there way. That's your opinion so fine, but if you are going around calling people jerks, there are a lot of sensative people on here that might not be quite so understanding about it.

 

[JavierLW]

Dude, how many people do you have issues with on here? You just attacked me on another thread. Please deal with your issues before you come on this site. You are hands-down one of the rudest posters on here.

Dude, are you involved in this thread?? If you dont have anything valuable to add and you are just going to go on some rant and feel personally slighted then butt out.

You are willing to suggest that someone is a jerk for something, but yet Im the rude person? Give me a break.

I dont have "an issue" with trainer. He's the one who felt the need to reach and call me a jerk, but I still dont have any personal issue with him.

If you are going to stalk my threads, that's way far worse then anything you perceive that Ive done to you.

 

[CAM178]

Dude, are you involved in this thread?? If you dont have anything valuable to add and you are just going to go on some rant and feel personally slighted then butt out.

You are willing to suggest that someone is a jerk for something, but yet Im the rude person? Give me a break.

I dont have "an issue" with trainer. He's the one who felt the need to reach and call me a jerk, but I still dont have any personal issue with him.

If you are going to stalk my threads, that's way far worse then anything you perceive that Ive done to you.

whatever, man

 

[JavierLW]

whatever, man

now you get it..... If you would of said that like a million posts ago we wouldnt have an issue....

 

[Cindysphinx]

:sidesteps puddles of urine from pi$$ing contest:

Trainer asked a good question: If I as a captain knew a team had an illegal player or combination, would I say something before the match?

You know, I would. Each time I receive the opposing team's line-up, I double-check that the doubles pairings are legal. In 7.0 mixed, I'd make sure the ratings add to 7.0, that there is no more than 1 point difference between partners, and that each team has a guy and a gal. I also check to make sure each player is actually on the roster.

If there is problem, I would point it out *and* let the opponent change the line-up. I think it would be unsporting to do otherwise. I would probably insist that the opposing captain let me change my line-up too, just to make sure they aren't getting an unfair advantage from a non-simultaneous exchange.

If I didn't notice it and only noticed it later, I would protest it even if it didn't impacted the match result. I wouldn't want one of my pairs to suffer a loss in a match that shouldn't have happened. I don't know if this would be considered proper (have I waived such an objection if I don't catch it before the match?).

In the OP's case, I guess the real question is whether the opposing captain knew there was a problem here with enough certainty to raise it. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[CAM178]

Trainer asked a good question: If I as a captain knew a team had an illegal player or combination, would I say something before the match?

You know, I would. Each time I receive the opposing team's line-up, I double-check that the doubles pairings are legal.

Every team I've been on has done this, too. It's only fair. Just so we're clear: I am agreeing with you. I don't want to disagree with anybody any more!

 

[Trainer]

:sidesteps puddles of urine from pi$$ing contest:

Trainer asked a good question: If I as a captain knew a team had an illegal player or combination, would I say something before the match?

You know, I would. Each time I receive the opposing team's line-up, I double-check that the doubles pairings are legal. In 7.0 mixed, I'd make sure the ratings add to 7.0, that there is no more than 1 point difference between partners, and that each team has a guy and a gal. I also check to make sure each player is actually on the roster.

If there is problem, I would point it out *and* let the opponent change the line-up. I think it would be unsporting to do otherwise. I would probably insist that the opposing captain let me change my line-up too, just to make sure they aren't getting an unfair advantage from a non-simultaneous exchange.

If I didn't notice it and only noticed it later, I would protest it even if it didn't impacted the match result. I wouldn't want one of my pairs to suffer a loss in a match that shouldn't have happened. I don't know if this would be considered proper (have I waived such an objection if I don't catch it before the match?).

In the OP's case, I guess the real question is whether the opposing captain knew there was a problem here with enough certainty to raise it. Maybe, maybe not.

Thanks Cindy.

I know that it is our fault. The other team has no real responsibility for our ability to follow the rules. Knowing that they knew this beforehand and didn't say anything just bothered me. I guess I expected more out of a tournament played to promote tennis and to have fun. That was only my second USTA event, and it sort of soured me about the people playing at them. And hearing JavierLW's comments only confirmed this.

I know that they knew this because the wife of a player on our team heard their supporters talking about it while the matches were in progress. After we won our match, she heard a couple of them say, "It doesn't matter anyway, they are going to be disqualified, that guy played in the 7.5 combo's last week." Sure enough, 1 hour after the matches were over, we got a call from the USTA coordinator telling us we were disqualified.

Also, we know now that the weaker team is going to go to the nationals to represent our section.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Well, you know the wife knew. You don't know what the captain knew. And you don't know when this fact was discovered. Could have been noticed during warm-up or after.

Buck up, Trainer. USTA is generally populated with reasonable and fair players/captains. Don't let this one thing put you off. Take your revenge by making it your highest priority to kick their butts the next time you play.

 

[JavierLW]

:sidesteps puddles of urine from pi$$ing contest:

Trainer asked a good question: If I as a captain knew a team had an illegal player or combination, would I say something before the match?

You know, I would. Each time I receive the opposing team's line-up, I double-check that the doubles pairings are legal. In 7.0 mixed, I'd make sure the ratings add to 7.0, that there is no more than 1 point difference between partners, and that each team has a guy and a gal. I also check to make sure each player is actually on the roster.

If there is problem, I would point it out *and* let the opponent change the line-up. I think it would be unsporting to do otherwise. I would probably insist that the opposing captain let me change my line-up too, just to make sure they aren't getting an unfair advantage from a non-simultaneous exchange.

If I didn't notice it and only noticed it later, I would protest it even if it didn't impacted the match result. I wouldn't want one of my pairs to suffer a loss in a match that shouldn't have happened. I don't know if this would be considered proper (have I waived such an objection if I don't catch it before the match?).

In the OP's case, I guess the real question is whether the opposing captain knew there was a problem here with enough certainty to raise it. Maybe, maybe not.

The diffrence is in a local match you are exchanging lineups with the other captain. If you happen to notice something is wrong of course you should say something. That's part of the process of beginning the match.

But in the playoffs, you dont necessarily know who's playing on the other team until you get called onto the court. The Captains normally turn their lineups in to the league officials, and it's not like they tell the other captain who's playing on the other team until you get called out to play.

Maybe the wife sitting in the stands (DURING THE MATCH) knows you, and knows the whole situation, but that's easy for her, she's not out there trying to play.

None of us know what the real situation was, so it's not worth worrying about what the other team did or didnt do. (especially if someone is going to claim that they are not "blaming" them for what happened)

For what it's worth, I have stated this is a dumb rule (for combo leagues). If you have a 3.5 rating for example, the league wants you to play 6.5 and 7.5. So Im not sure why in the heck you wouldnt be able to play in both championships. You're not playing above or below your level, you're playing the exact same level that those two leagues are designed for.

(it's slightly diffrent if you are successful on a 3.5 and a 4.0 team because in most cases you're probally sandbagging on the 3.5 team)

 

[Hal]

I'm sorry to say that that makes you a jerk too.

When you step onto a court there is an unspoken agreement that you are there to earn the win by playing tennis. To feign some charade that the match really matters all the while knowing that you've already won it even if you don't win a single point is just dishonest and an indication of poor character.

Trainer, I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Your team is the one that was cheating, and you're calling the other guys bad sports?!?! Let's look at this from their perspective and let's even say they knew you shouldn't be playing. From their perspective, you guys are the cheating by playing an ineligible player. They don't know that you are doing this by mistake, so why would they be help cheaters? They probably think your team knows the rules and are trying to beat them by cheating. So, instead, they're going use the rules to their advantage and let you play. If I look at the situation objectively, I say you should have known the rules and it was not they're responsibility to teach you the rules (to their disadvantage) before hand. The only bad sport here is you by whining about what another team did when your team was clearly cheating (knowingly or unknowingly).

 

[Trainer]

Trainer, I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Your team is the one that was cheating,

Hal,
Sorry, there is no way you can call what we did cheating. Cheating is the act of deliberately deceiving someone in hopes to win. We did nothing of the sort. So, if you respond, refrain from calling us cheaters.

and you're calling the other guys bad sports?!?!

Yes, it was obvious that we were unaware of this rule.

Let's look at this from their perspective and let's even say they knew you shouldn't be playing.

Which is definately the case.

From their perspective, you guys are the cheating by playing an ineligible player.

So, why not mention it beforehand? I would have.

They don't know that you are doing this by mistake, so why would they be help cheaters?

You can't be serious. We sent in rosters that CLEARLY showed my name on both teams many weeks in advance. It was no secret whatsoever. We had other players that could have played.

They probably think your team knows the rules and are trying to beat them by cheating. So, instead, they're going use the rules to their advantage and let you play.

That's weak. Like I said, going onto the court to play a match implies that both teams believe that the match is valid and are going to compete on the court. Anything else is just poor sportsmanship.

If I look at the situation objectively, I say you should have known the rules

Duh.

and it was not they're responsibility to teach you the rules (to their disadvantage) before hand. The only bad sport here is you by whining about what another team did when your team was clearly cheating (knowingly or unknowingly).

You can't unknowingly cheat. Cheating is a deliberate action.