Dress Code Violation = Default ??

RetroSpin

Hall of Fame
The solution here is pretty simple. If a club has a restrictive dress code, it should be noted when they sign up for a league. Then it is up to the league to decide if they are willing to comply. If not, the club can adjust their policy for team play or not join the league.

The idea that you could show up unaware there is a dress code and face a default is unacceptable. If anyone takes a default, it should be the host team. They are the one saying you can't play. If they face a default, it puts the onus of making sure visiting teams are informed where it should be. On them.
 

goober

Legend
The solution here is pretty simple. If a club has a restrictive dress code, it should be noted when they sign up for a league. Then it is up to the league to decide if they are willing to comply. If not, the club can adjust their policy for team play or not join the league.

The idea that you could show up unaware there is a dress code and face a default is unacceptable. If anyone takes a default, it should be the host team. They are the one saying you can't play. If they face a default, it puts the onus of making sure visiting teams are informed where it should be. On them.

I don't know what happened in this specific case, but I am almost certain that the dress code was known and published, but the visiting captain probably was not paying attention and did not inform the team. I bet if you look at the rest of the teams in the league, there were no other forfeits based on dress codes. I have seen all kinds of forfeits because this visiting captain didn't look at the match details. Showing up at the wrong time too late, showing up at wrong location, assuming a match was cancelled due to weather without even calling the other captain, ect. I think that is much more likely scenario than this private club sneaking in this dress code for a forfeit without telling anybody.
 

musto9030

New User
This is an interesting scenario I had never considered. There could be quite a bit of a home court advantage for the team playing at this club if they forced 'away teams' to play in collared shirts.

Personally, I don't own any collared tennis shirts. I always wear the normal collarless crews, as do most of the people I play with. Now, consider a team that has several players who do not own any collared shirts. They would have 2 options for this match, 1) go spend $40+ dollars on a collared shirt or 2) sit this match out.

For option 1, some people will not be willing to spend the extra money to buy a shirt that they will only wear for this 1 match (and any future matches they play at this club), or they will have to play the match in a collared shirt that they may not feel comfortable in or are not used to. For me, when I play in a shirt that I don't particularly like, I am usually distracted and don't play as well.

For option 2, a team won't have their whole roster to choose from when playing at this club.

I know this wasn't the topic of this thread, but I found the scenario an interesting one.
 

chatt_town

Hall of Fame
Man....that's horse poop(not what you're saying but the situation). You can't run a usta team out of a club and then impose that nonsense on everyone else. They probably pay 10 grand a year to be a member so yea, you can tell your members that but you can't tell some team coming from another facility they have to wear certain shirts. That would cause a big uproar if you tried that with one of the teams I play with.lol Hell we are lucky to be able to sometime to have good tennis shoes(we all know we have to have good shoes) but to have shirts that proabably cost 50 or 70 bucks is out of the question. lol


Typically, clubs like that have a pro shop where they sell compliant shirts since your situation is likely not unique. At the very least, it would be a REALLY expensive match for your partner, but he shouldn't have to default.
 

chatt_town

Hall of Fame
I don't think USTA would allow that kind of nonsense. I could then see them the next year coming to our courts and us telling them...You have to have a tupac CD in your car today to play at this facility. It makes about as much sense. lol


This is an interesting scenario I had never considered. There could be quite a bit of a home court advantage for the team playing at this club if they forced 'away teams' to play in collared shirts.

Personally, I don't own any collared tennis shirts. I always wear the normal collarless crews, as do most of the people I play with. Now, consider a team that has several players who do not own any collared shirts. They would have 2 options for this match, 1) go spend $40+ dollars on a collared shirt or 2) sit this match out.

For option 1, some people will not be willing to spend the extra money to buy a shirt that they will only wear for this 1 match (and any future matches they play at this club), or they will have to play the match in a collared shirt that they may not feel comfortable in or are not used to. For me, when I play in a shirt that I don't particularly like, I am usually distracted and don't play as well.

For option 2, a team won't have their whole roster to choose from when playing at this club.

I know this wasn't the topic of this thread, but I found the scenario an interesting one.
 

netlets

Professional
It has nothing to do with playing there for free because it is a league. It has to do with the standards set by the USTA for league play. Those standards do not require a collared shirt.

Your argument is flawed because the things you mention (leaving garbage,swearing, etc) would not be tolerated if there were a USTA official present .... but your shirt not having a collar would NEVER be a problem.

The club has a right to impose their rules on their members but they have no right to impose their rules on people playing in a USTA league beyond any rules that would coincide with USTA regulations such as standards of behavior etc.[/QUOTE

This post is right on. It's laughable how militant people are in protecting a pretentious dress code. I've been verbally attacked for it when I had no idea there was such a code at their club. I even had a shirt in my bag but I guess some people just love to berate others for sport before telling them the rules. I was so angry I won my match 6-0, 6-0. :) I swore if I was ever in charge of a club I would forbid wearing all whites.
 

Bobs tennis

Semi-Pro
Private club rules are interesting.I'm sure private Golf courses are also unique.I've arrived at locations and seen posted notices indicating only white soled tennis shoes.In modern tennis almost all shoes are non marking but i've seen people turned away for this rule.All white attire,no sleeveless shirts and collared shirts only are not unusual.The best was a player on hot day changed his shirt after match and was advised quickly to put his shirt on.Someone should tell Nadal that.Members at these clubs pay more then many of us make in a year for these memberships so I guess they should have there own rules.What does bother me is when these locations have a "pro"practicing at there location because of a nearby tournament and not a word is said about any codes.
 
Man....that's horse poop(not what you're saying but the situation). You can't run a usta team out of a club and then impose that nonsense on everyone else. They probably pay 10 grand a year to be a member so yea, you can tell your members that but you can't tell some team coming from another facility they have to wear certain shirts. That would cause a big uproar if you tried that with one of the teams I play with.lol Hell we are lucky to be able to sometime to have good tennis shoes(we all know we have to have good shoes) but to have shirts that proabably cost 50 or 70 bucks is out of the question. lol

Show a little class. You're a guest at a nice place, do you wear your flip-flops to a wedding? I've bought Nike shirts and shorts at Marshall's for $10-15, if you're that strapped for funds Goodwill has 'em even cheaper--no shirt, no shoes, no service. Forego a six-pack of Bud Lite once in a while and invest in a shirt with a collar, you can wear it to a nice restaurant on occasion also.
 

goober

Legend
Man....that's horse poop(not what you're saying but the situation). You can't run a usta team out of a club and then impose that nonsense on everyone else. They probably pay 10 grand a year to be a member so yea, you can tell your members that but you can't tell some team coming from another facility they have to wear certain shirts. That would cause a big uproar if you tried that with one of the teams I play with.lol Hell we are lucky to be able to sometime to have good tennis shoes(we all know we have to have good shoes) but to have shirts that proabably cost 50 or 70 bucks is out of the question. lol

Well if you run a private club, you can run it however you see fit. Most private clubs that have dress codes enforce them upon guests of members, so I don't see how this would be any different. The visiting team is basically a guest in this case.

I honestly don't see a problem with dressing appropriately to your venue. If you are on public courts wear whatever you want. If you go to the opera, I wouldn't show up in shorts and a t-shirt. If you are in the most expensive club in town, wearing a collared shirt shouldn't be a burden for anyone who can afford league tennis. You don't have to spend anywhere close to $50-70.
 

stapletonj

Hall of Fame
"It's like going to a nice restaurant which says you have to wear a jacket and tie. (They usually do have some available for the unprepared). "

Reminds me of the story about Sammy Davis in Vegas in the 60s. He went to a swanky place in his Nehru jacket and medallion. ( you younger folks can Wikipedia that if you like) Ties required, sir. When offered a black tie to borrow for the meal, he graciously thanked the maître d, tied it around his forehead and walked on to his table.

I would be really tempted, depending upon the perceived arrogance of the club to have an all white outfit, good brand, that I had worn for several days straight w/o benefit of a washing, have a very garlic laden pre meal match, and talk very closely and breathily at great length to the various club high mucky mucks about their wonderful facility.

But then again, I LOVED Dangerfield in Caddyshack. and isn't that what this thread is really about anyway?
 

OrangePower

Legend
I think private clubs should be able to enforce any dress code they see fit. Generally speaking, if you don't want to comply, just don't play there.

Of course if it's away league match, then it complicates matters. And if anyone is at fault here, it's USTA. If complying with a dress code is going to be a hardship for visiting league players (and I'm not sure that it is - depends on the specifics of the dress code), then USTA should either not accept that facility as a host for matches, or else should negotiate with the facility up front for the dress code to be relaxed for visiting league players.

I don't think I've ever had to play at a club that enforced an onerous dress code, but if I ever do, I would complain directly to USTA, not to the club.
 

rufus_smith

Professional
20 Years ago or so, I played at a major USTA singles tourney at a posh tennis club and was not allowed to play in a sleeveless ,collarless shirt by the tourney director. Not sure if that was within the rules or not. Luckily I had a spare conforming shirt.
 

struggle

Legend
if you're gonna require a collared shirt on a tennis court then it should be ok to light up a smoke during changeover too.
 

goran_ace

Hall of Fame
I only know of one all-white club in my area and few collars required clubs. At my club and almost all others there is a 'proper tennis attire' rule. This just means that men can't play shirtless or wear street clothes on the court. Women/girls can't play in just a sports bra and must wear shorts or skirt over compression shorts.

Some visiting league players use matches as an excuse to pretend they are members for the day. We have actually had to post rules for visiting league players though to let them know that they are only allowed to use the court for the time reserved for their match (can't stay and play after the match is over) and they have locker room privileges but are not allowed to work out, have dinner, etc.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
I don't think I've ever had to play at a club that enforced an onerous dress code, but if I ever do, I would complain directly to USTA, not to the club.

There is one club around here that recently made a change to its all-white dress code to make it *more* onerous.

The old dress code required white attire, but allowed colored accents. Colored visors and headbands were OK IIRC. Colored sweat pants and sweat shirts were OK, but if you took them off your attire had to be white underneath.

Now players must also wear white shoes.

The members I know gripe about this constantly. Shoes are expensive, and feet are delicate so people don't like having to find their favorite shoe in white.

Why they keep paying this huge amount of money to be treated like puppets is a mystery to me.

Anyway, I keep a bin of white attire on the top shelf of my closet. I use it only for playing at clubs that require white. The same outfits have lasted me many, many years.
 

OrangePower

Legend
There is one club around here that recently made a change to its all-white dress code to make it *more* onerous.

The old dress code required white attire, but allowed colored accents. Colored visors and headbands were OK IIRC. Colored sweat pants and sweat shirts were OK, but if you took them off your attire had to be white underneath.

Now players must also wear white shoes.

The members I know gripe about this constantly. Shoes are expensive, and feet are delicate so people don't like having to find their favorite shoe in white.

Why they keep paying this huge amount of money to be treated like puppets is a mystery to me.

Anyway, I keep a bin of white attire on the top shelf of my closet. I use it only for playing at clubs that require white. The same outfits have lasted me many, many years.

Yeah, that sounds pretty harsh. Why would they do that, and of course why do the members accept it?

I think it's quaint to maintain a little bit of tradition, but in this case it just seems very supercilious.
 

eelhc

Hall of Fame
Big difference between being a guest vs a visiting USTA team.

No issues or problems with private clubs requiring specific attire for their members, member guests or for competitors playing in an event organized and run by the club.

Different story altogether when the club hosts a USTA match or event however. IMO it is wrong for the club to enforce its rules and practices is this case. per my previous post... The All England Club got it right when they waived the all white dress code for the Olympics. This is proper etiquette.

This does not mean the USTA competitors can behave in a disrespectful manner as the visiting team.
 

eelhc

Hall of Fame
If you are a visiting USTA player, you are by definition a guest.

The visiting Captain and team makes up the roster for the USTA match without the consent or approval of any club members. How far do you want to go with this? There are clubs even in this day and age by practice do not have any Black, Jewish or Asian members. USTA event, USTA rules and practices... Period. The club can always opt out of hosting a USTA event or fielding a USTA team.
 

goober

Legend
Big difference between being a guest vs a visiting USTA team.

No issues or problems with private clubs requiring specific attire for their members, member guests or for competitors playing in an event organized and run by the club.

Different story altogether when the club hosts a USTA match or event however. IMO it is wrong for the club to enforce its rules and practices is this case. per my previous post... The All England Club got it right when they waived the all white dress code for the Olympics. This is proper etiquette.

This does not mean the USTA competitors can behave in a disrespectful manner as the visiting team.

I don't see any difference. A team that is visiting is a guest of the host team.

I have NEVER seen any USTA rules which state that clubs cannot enforce their dress codes at matches at their events. In fact I have only seen the opposite. I have seen USTA tournaments where they enforce dress codes that are not even in place at a public facility.

Olympics is a once in a lifetime event for Wimbledon. Comparing apples and oranges. USTA teams visiting are an every week occurrence at many clubs that have mutliple mens and womens teams. I can completely see why club members would have a problem if every week there are visiting mens and womens teams playing with whatever they wanted to wear while the rest of the members and guests have to follow the code. Hint- USTA is not that important to these high end clubs and visiting rec level players don't mean much compared to the paying members of the club.

Clubs can waive their dress code rules at their discretion, and they do for some pro events that are held at their facilities. Club level players whether they are USTA or not are rarely afforded the same waiver. I don't see what is the big deal. Put on a collar shirt, it is not like they are asking you to play in a tuxedo.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
The visiting Captain and team makes up the roster for the USTA match without the consent or approval of any club members. How far do you want to go with this? There are clubs even in this day and age by practice do not have any Black, Jewish or Asian members. USTA event, USTA rules and practices... Period. The club can always opt out of hosting a USTA event or fielding a USTA team.

A club is free to have a policy to ban black, Jewish, Asian members.

USTA has an anti-discrimination policy and will not allow its leagues to participate in non-complying venues.

If the USTA had a clothing policy that it will not submit to all-white clothing policies, then we would be talking apples to apples.

One of the private clubs around here has a policy that no one can take sports drinks onto the courts, and everyone must wear non-marking shoes. Water only; no running shoes or cross trainers.

Would you think you ought to be able to bring a sports drink onto the court and wear running shoes because you are a visiting USTA player so the club's rule does not apply to you?
 

arche3

Banned
A club is free to have a policy to ban black, Jewish, Asian members.

USTA has an anti-discrimination policy and will not allow its leagues to participate in non-complying venues.

If the USTA had a clothing policy that it will not submit to all-white clothing policies, then we would be talking apples to apples.

One of the private clubs around here has a policy that no one can take sports drinks onto the courts, and everyone must wear non-marking shoes. Water only; no running shoes or cross trainers.

Would you think you ought to be able to bring a sports drink onto the court and wear running shoes because you are a visiting USTA player so the club's rule does not apply to you?

Sports drinks and non marking shoes are a clean up and maintenance issue. Colored clothing has no bearing on the maintenance of the courts. So the underlying reasons are different. If usta matches are played at various clubs usta rules should apply. What if some clubs had some rule that you only played no ad scoring? Your going to play that way for a visiting usta match?
 

souledge

Semi-Pro
Answer is simple:

The USTA needs to grow a set and come up with a comprehensive set of rules governing all aspects of League Play. The respective clubs can decide whether to comply or not.

I'm leaning more towards eelhc than Cindy on this discussion tho.
 

OrangePower

Legend
Answer is simple:

The USTA needs to grow a set and come up with a comprehensive set of rules governing all aspects of League Play. The respective clubs can decide whether to comply or not.

Agree with this.

I respect the right of private clubs to impose whatever dress code they want, however silly I might think it is.

But as a league player, I should not be made to conform to conditions that are more onerous than can be reasonably expected when joining a USTA league. And these days, a strict all whites collar shirt dress code is not anticipated.

If this is going to be the case, USTA should make players aware of this condition prior to signing up for the league, but better yet, USTA should not allow such a club to be a host for league matches if the club is not willing to put aside its dress code for such matches.

Look, when I decide to play a USTA league, I have an expectation of what I'm getting myself in to. As long as I know up front what that is, then all is good and I can make a decision to participate / not participate accordingly. But I don't want surprises after I join a league, wait for the schedule to be posted, and only then be made aware that one of the clubs I'm scheduled to play at requires all whites.

As an extreme analogy, imagine a very old fashioned club that allows only use of wooden racquets. How would everyone feel about playing a league match there?
 

goober

Legend
Sports drinks and non marking shoes are a clean up and maintenance issue. Colored clothing has no bearing on the maintenance of the courts. So the underlying reasons are different. If usta matches are played at various clubs usta rules should apply. What if some clubs had some rule that you only played no ad scoring? Your going to play that way for a visiting usta match?

USTA doesn't have national rules on attire. Local rules are follow the dress code of the host club. If there any exceptions I haven't seen them posted here. So how are these clubs not following USTA rules?
 

goober

Legend
Answer is simple:

The USTA needs to grow a set and come up with a comprehensive set of rules governing all aspects of League Play. The respective clubs can decide whether to comply or not.
.

The answer is not so simple. I actually doubt they are ever going to implement a national attire rule for league play OR some provision that requires clubs to drop their own rules. USTA is a business. Dropping teams and clubs from league play is not in their interest. In reality these pretentious clubs are few and far between. Many districts don't even have clubs that would fall into this category so I doubt there will ever be any national outcry over this. So they are not going to grow a set, nor from their point, should they. They are probably going to do nothing.
 

eelhc

Hall of Fame
Olympics is a once in a lifetime event for Wimbledon. Comparing apples and oranges. USTA teams visiting are an every week occurrence at many clubs that have mutliple mens and womens teams. I can completely see why club members would have a problem if every week there are visiting mens and womens teams playing with whatever they wanted to wear while the rest of the members and guests have to follow the code. Hint- USTA is not that important to these high end clubs and visiting rec level players don't mean much compared to the paying members of the club.

So don't participate in USTA or field a team but host home matches elsewhere to keep the "riff-raff" out... simple. But to impose the clubs rules and practices for a USTA sanctioned and organized event is WRONG.

The club is dictating to the USAT... "we want to participate in USTA leagues BUT... only if the players who show up and play in OUR CLUB meet particular standards of dress acceptable to US"... the line is crossed... what else can they dictate to the USTA?
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
So don't participate in USTA or field a team but host home matches elsewhere to keep the "riff-raff" out... simple. But to impose the clubs rules and practices for a USTA sanctioned and organized event is WRONG.

The club is dictating to the USAT... "we want to participate in USTA leagues BUT... only if the players who show up and play in OUR CLUB meet particular standards of dress acceptable to US"... the line is crossed... what else can they dictate to the USTA?

I think you misunderstand the balance of power, at least in our area.

There are not nearly enough public tennis courts to field USTA league teams at the levels needed. Not even close.

USTA has to go out and contract with private clubs to allow league players to use private courts. USTA pays for this court time (and collects from players).

The clubs, in turn, want the revenue to be earned from renting out unused court time. The arrangement works nicely.

So who has the power in this relationship? The clubs do. Their members do not like a bunch of outsiders clogging up the courts, and they really do not like it if the outsiders are treated better than the members (e.g. regular rules don't apply).

Clubs in our area have in the past refused to do business with USTA as a result of member rebellions or league players who flouted club rules. Until this thread, I didn't understand the thinking of USTA league players who so disrespect a club's rules that USTA gets banned from that facility. Now I get it, although I surely don't agree with it.

The clubs have the power around here, and if they decide all USTA league players have to wear woolen knee socks, I'll have to go out and find myself some new socks.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
the line is crossed... what else can they dictate to the USTA?

Where you will park.

What shoes you will wear.

What food and drink you can consume on the courts and on the premises.

Whether there can be slogans on your t-shirt.

Whether you can wear jeans instead of shorts (once had a mixed partner who wore jeans!)

Whether you can warm up in the adjacent fitness center.

Whether you can shower in the locker room.

Whether you can take the court early to warm up, or overstay your 2-hour block.

And in one notable case, how early league players are allowed to arrive in the lobby (no earlier than 30 minutes before match time).
 

eelhc

Hall of Fame
I think you misunderstand the balance of power, at least in our area.

Just 1 club in our area fielding 1 team at 1 level who impose their own dress codes on visiting teams.... Without first telling the visiting team... Who should default?
 

musto9030

New User
Where you will park.

What shoes you will wear.

What food and drink you can consume on the courts and on the premises.

Whether there can be slogans on your t-shirt.

Whether you can wear jeans instead of shorts (once had a mixed partner who wore jeans!)

Whether you can warm up in the adjacent fitness center.

Whether you can shower in the locker room.

Whether you can take the court early to warm up, or overstay your 2-hour block.

And in one notable case, how early league players are allowed to arrive in the lobby (no earlier than 30 minutes before match time).

There is a difference between most of these points and the ones that deal with attire. If you are playing as a guest in a USTA league event and are required to wear, say, a collared shirt, and you don't have one, you either have to go buy one, or set that match out. For most USTA players, purchasing an extra shirt just for this facility is not a big deal, however, for some it is.

I am currently a student, and as such, don't have a lot of money to spend on tennis. If I were to find out that the league match I have this week was to be played at a club that required a collared shirt, I would have to sit that one out. I know $30 for a collared isn't a lot, but when I add in the league fees and court fees I have already paid, it starts to get difficult to justify spending this much of my small tennis budget on these events.

Now, I don't expect to show up to a club and play in a t-shirt with the sleeves ripped out. I do own appropriate tennis apparel (just not collared shirts), that I have purchased when TW is running a good deal, but that is it, I only purchase my apparel when it is on sale and I can afford it.

When I graduate I will have more money, so a $30 expense won't be such a burden, but that doesn't mean someone else won't be in the same situation.
 

goober

Legend
So don't participate in USTA or field a team but host home matches elsewhere to keep the "riff-raff" out... simple. But to impose the clubs rules and practices for a USTA sanctioned and organized event is WRONG.

The club is dictating to the USAT... "we want to participate in USTA leagues BUT... only if the players who show up and play in OUR CLUB meet particular standards of dress acceptable to US"... the line is crossed... what else can they dictate to the USTA?

I don't really think you understand. The USTA WANTS these clubs to participate. They want to grow their business not limit it. I really doubt those making the decisions care that a small number of people who think the dress code is too onerous for the very small percentage clubs that require dress codes. They would care though if a lot teams dropped nationwide that belonged to these clubs because of rule changes they implemented.

BTW clubs already impose all kinds of things on USTA players. Cindy listed a lot of them, but here is few more:

Timed matches: forced because of time slots enforced by the club. This actually directly affects the scoring mechanics of the match.

What courts you can warm up on if any.

Whether you are allowed to bring spectators to match and watch courtside
 

goober

Legend
T

When I graduate I will have more money, so a $30 expense won't be such a burden, but that doesn't mean someone else won't be in the same situation.

You can get a collared shirt for $10-15. If you go to discount places like marshalls, Ross, TJ maxx you can get them for under $10. If you have to sit out one match because you can't afford that, well I don't think you should lose any sleep over it.
 

goober

Legend
Just 1 club in our area fielding 1 team at 1 level who impose their own dress codes on visiting teams.... Without first telling the visiting team... Who should default?

It depends. First what are the local league rules- Do they state you have to follow dress code of the host team?

Is the dress code listed anywhere on the league website?

If not listed anywhere did the opposing captain truly not communicate with any of the captains beforehand about the dress code?

If the answers to these are all NO, then nobody should default. Match should be rescheduled.

If the answers to any of the question is Yes- visiting team should default. In my experience, cases like these the visiting captain claims they were unaware, but there is evidence through email, league notification or website info that he should have known ahead of time and just didn't pay attention.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Just 1 club in our area fielding 1 team at 1 level who impose their own dress codes on visiting teams.... Without first telling the visiting team... Who should default?

Obviously, visitors must be notified in advance of any and all special requirements. If they are so notified, they must comply if they wish to set foot on the property.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
You can get a collared shirt for $10-15. If you go to discount places like marshalls, Ross, TJ maxx you can get them for under $10. If you have to sit out one match because you can't afford that, well I don't think you should lose any sleep over it.

You could also borrow a shirt from a friend.

Or you could go spring for a polo style shirt, wear it for the match, wash it, and store it. You will need that polo style shirt for many casual events, paired with khaki or navy pants and a casual shoe.

If you are smart, you will buy that one polo shirt in white.
 

musto9030

New User
You can get a collared shirt for $10-15. If you go to discount places like marshalls, Ross, TJ maxx you can get them for under $10. If you have to sit out one match because you can't afford that, well I don't think you should lose any sleep over it.

We have a TJ Maxx nearby. I guess I should check that place out more often. I haven't ever seen any tennis apparel there, but it sounds like they run some good deals.
 

gameboy

Hall of Fame
I will back Cindy on this. Here in PNW, most of the league play happens during the rainy season and most matches are played indoors. If you ban private clubs from enforcing their own club rules, they will dump the USTA and form their own league.

There is a local club that enforces all white attire rule and they are enforced for all USTA events hosted there. It really isn't a big deal. If you wanted to quit the league because of this, go right ahead as it is always easier to find players than venues.

Everyone owns at least a polo shirt. This is really much ado about nothing.
 
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OrangePower

Legend
Question to those who are ok with clubs enforcing their more unusual regulations on visiting league players:

What about white-soled shoes? Cindy mentioned a club she knows that requires all-white shoes; not sure if this included the sole as well. But as we know Wimbledon requires white soles and enforced this (against Fed) recently.

There's not many affordable options out there for white-soled shoes. Most people don't have such a pair, it would be expensive to buy one, and chances are they would not be as comfortable as one's regular shoes. So even beyond the cost factor, they could impact your performance on the court in a meaningful way.

You guys have no problem with this?
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
No, unless you meant it as a joke

No, not a joke. You can have a discriminatory *private* club or association. You just can't have any support from the state. So no liquor license, no federal contracts, no federal money, etc.

If you are running a public establishment, of course, then federal law prohibits many forms of discrimination.

Somehow I don't think I could sue the Klu Klux Klan if my membership application were denied on account of race. :)
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Question to those who are ok with clubs enforcing their more unusual regulations on visiting league players:

What about white-soled shoes? Cindy mentioned a club she knows that requires all-white shoes; not sure if this included the sole as well. But as we know Wimbledon requires white soles and enforced this (against Fed) recently.

There's not many affordable options out there for white-soled shoes. Most people don't have such a pair, it would be expensive to buy one, and chances are they would not be as comfortable as one's regular shoes. So even beyond the cost factor, they could impact your performance on the court in a meaningful way.

You guys have no problem with this?

I don't know if the sole must be white. I doubt it -- I don't know how anyone would find shoes.

I wouldn't have a problem with the club enforcing a white-sole-only rule. I would instead complain to the league and urge that matches not be scheduled there.

At a different private club (hard courts, non-marking shoes required, no sports drinks), league players literally had to line up before taking the court and have the desk attendant walk around and inspect everyone's shoes.

I tried to remember not to wear my black Prince T22 shoes when I played there, but I forgot every time and would stand there sweating during inspection. Thankfully, the person working the desk knew that "colored shoes" could be non-marking shoes.

Had I been refused entry, I would not have purchased shoes from the pro shot. I have foot issues, and I wouldn't wish to bear the expense of buying shoes that might not work for me in the long run.
 

OrangePower

Legend
I don't know if the sole must be white. I doubt it -- I don't know how anyone would find shoes.

I wouldn't have a problem with the club enforcing a white-sole-only rule. I would instead complain to the league and urge that matches not be scheduled there.

At a different private club (hard courts, non-marking shoes required, no sports drinks), league players literally had to line up before taking the court and have the desk attendant walk around and inspect everyone's shoes.

I tried to remember not to wear my black Prince T22 shoes when I played there, but I forgot every time and would stand there sweating during inspection. Thankfully, the person working the desk knew that "colored shoes" could be non-marking shoes.

Had I been refused entry, I would not have purchased shoes from the pro shot. I have foot issues, and I wouldn't wish to bear the expense of buying shoes that might not work for me in the long run.

Completely agree.
There are some though that have been saying that USTA should just accept whatever regulations clubs wish to enforce, since the clubs apparently have the upper hand in some areas.
I have no issue if a club wants to enforce a white-sole rule, but I would choose not to play there. If I had to default a league match as a result, I would be p1ssed at USTA.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
No, not a joke. You can have a discriminatory *private* club or association. You just can't have any support from the state. So no liquor license, no federal contracts, no federal money, etc.

If you are running a public establishment, of course, then federal law prohibits many forms of discrimination.

Somehow I don't think I could sue the Klu Klux Klan if my membership application were denied on account of race. :)

It cannot be a business
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
It cannot be a business

Well, it cannot be public accommodations, which would include many businesses. No argument there.

I must admit I do not know the answer to whether one KKK chapter would be permitted to sell fresh, new robes to another KKK chapter.

I do know we have wandered mighty far afield, though.
 
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