drop shot serve

[westpac690]

Here's a new one. I played against this fella last week who would hit drop shot serves that did not bounce as high as the net. If I moved in to volley, he would suddenly acquire a "traditional serve". Essentially, I had to sit one foot from the service box, with my butt on my heels and hit drop shot returns. The things folks do to play to win, without actually trying to play tennis friggin' astounds me.

 

[whomad15]

Sounds like a useful plan to me.
Generally you can tell by the pace of the ball if it was going to be a drop-shot serve or not though

 

[tennis tom]

This sounds like a great serve to have in one's quiver. Did he hit it underhand or over? Can you get some video, I would like to master it. Who won?

 

[OrangePower]

Here's a new one. I played against this fella last week who would hit drop shot serves that did not bounce as high as the net. If I moved in to volley, he would suddenly acquire a "traditional serve". Essentially, I had to sit one foot from the service box, with my butt on my heels and hit drop shot returns. The things folks do to play to win, without actually trying to play tennis friggin' astounds me.

Um.

Drop shot serve is perfectly legal, so don't hate on someone playing within the rules.

But it's a weak, low percentage play, which is why you don't see it at higher levels. So you should be able to punish it. If you can't, then that just means something missing in your game that you need to work on.

 

[westpac690]

Um.

Drop shot serve is perfectly legal, so don't hate on someone playing within the rules.

But it's a weak, low percentage play, which is why you don't see it at higher levels. So you should be able to punish it. If you can't, then that just means something missing in your game that you need to work on.

It was overhand. I won the match, as I said I hit drop shots in return to his, and just bombed his backhand on my serve.
Legal yes, effective no. It's not hit intended to be a traditional looking drop shot. It's disguised as a regular serve, that just barely goes over the net, and doesn't bounce.
I'd love to see someone do it to Nadal at the French Open when he stands 8 feet behind the baseline and have the announcer say, "that's perfectly legal, there's something missing in Nadal's game if he can't get to that and punish it."
If Orangepower can't hit a drop shot serve, and have it be effective, maybe there's something lacking in his game that he need to work on.

 

[andfor]

It was overhand. I won the match, as I said I hit drop shots in return to his, and just bombed his backhand on my serve.
Legal yes, effective no. It's not hit intended to be a traditional looking drop shot. It's disguised as a regular serve, that just barely goes over the net, and doesn't bounce.
I'd love to see someone do it to Nadal at the French Open when he stands 8 feet behind the baseline and have the announcer say, "that's perfectly legal, there's something missing in Nadal's game if he can't get to that and punish it."
If Orangepower can't hit a drop shot serve, and have it be effective, maybe there's something lacking in his game that he need to work on.

Let's be real. It would never work on the pro tour at any level and your guys trick service ball is bouncing higher than you think.

 

[OrangePower]

If it was not effective against you, then why are you complaining? Your post sounds like a typical sore loser sour grapes rant.

You won't see get your wish of seeing someone do it against Nadal, because it is a losing shot against Nadal, hence no-one would attempt it.

OrangePower can't hit an effective drop shot serve because the people OrangePower plays against are good enough to make mincemeat out of it every time. There is no such thing as an effective drop-shot serve at higher levels - if there was, you'd be seeing it regularly in ATP matches.

 

[ferb55]

Some of the replies on here kill me. You people that know full well what the OP is saying and still try to take some type of argumentative stance is ridiculous.

Is the "dropshot serve" legal...of course. Is it complete BS at a competitive level....you betcha.

No one goes into a match expecting or wanting to play patty cake with some one. Its crap and I will gladly stand up and call it such.

 

[purple-n-gold]

Some of the replies on here kill me. You people that know full well what the OP is saying and still try to take some type of argumentative stance is ridiculous.

Is the "dropshot serve" legal...of course. Is it complete BS at a competitive level....you betcha.

No one goes into a match expecting or wanting to play patty cake with some one. Its crap and I will gladly stand up and call it such.

I have a friend that was playing in a 4.0 tourney a couple of yrs ago, and in the match tiebreak his opponent pulled one of these either setting up mp or for the match, both top 4's maybe 4.5 now, just saying...

 

[Netzroller]

I'd love to see someone do it to Nadal at the French Open when he stands 8 feet behind the baseline and have the announcer say, "that's perfectly legal, there's something missing in Nadal's game if he can't get to that and punish it."
If Orangepower can't hit a drop shot serve, and have it be effective, maybe there's something lacking in his game that he need to work on.

Let's be real. It would never work on the pro tour at any level and your guys trick service ball is bouncing higher than you think.

Is the "dropshot serve" legal...of course. Is it complete BS at a competitive level....you betcha.

No one goes into a match expecting or wanting to play patty cake with some one. Its crap and I will gladly stand up and call it such.

Wrong, here you go....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3JsfD22wHQ
It's not Nadal or Federer, but Karlovic and Haas aren't exactly rec players either. Pro tennis is about money, I assure you if they expected that to work on Nadal, there would be players doing it...
So yeah, it's perfectly legal and people have sucessfully done it on all levels of play (though it rarely ever happens).

I always find it absurd if somone complains about their opponents using such strategies because it makes themselfes look like a fool even more. If you're good enough, you would never complain but much rather take this as an opportunity.

 

[JavierLW]

Some of the replies on here kill me. You people that know full well what the OP is saying and still try to take some type of argumentative stance is ridiculous.

Is the "dropshot serve" legal...of course. Is it complete BS at a competitive level....you betcha.

No one goes into a match expecting or wanting to play patty cake with some one. Its crap and I will gladly stand up and call it such.

No, I think you confuse "knowing what he is saying" with "agreeing with it".

We all "know what he is saying". But plenty of us that are not whiners and can see something beyond how it affects us personally do not "agree with it"...

But if you want to gladly stand up and show everyone what a big whiner you are, that's your right.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Let's be real. It would never work on the pro tour at any level and your guys trick service ball is bouncing higher than you think.

Wrong!!! Chang used it against Lendl at the '89 French Open. Chang's legs were cramping badly so he resorted to various tactics to throw off Lendl's rhythm and get into this head. One of these tactics was an underarm serve that really wasn't the best drop shot but it pulled Ivan in and then allowed Michael to pass him.

http://www.ina.fr/sport/tennis/video/I05272465/huitieme-de-finale-a-roland-garros-service-a-la-cuillere-de-chang.fr.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chang#1989_French_Open_match_vs_Ivan_Lendl

.

 

[slice bh compliment]

Lendl had used it against Mac years before that, too.

I think it's bush league, but it's definitely fun to practice.

 

[Big_Dangerous]

Here's a new one. I played against this fella last week who would hit drop shot serves that did not bounce as high as the net. If I moved in to volley, he would suddenly acquire a "traditional serve". Essentially, I had to sit one foot from the service box, with my butt on my heels and hit drop shot returns. The things folks do to play to win, without actually trying to play tennis friggin' astounds me.

Yep, played a few guys like this in a league. It's really annoying because they take so much pace off on first serves when they see you standing back and then add pace when you try to sneak in and take their crappy drop shot away.

It's a pretty bush league tactic to be honest. I don't care for it all, but it's not against the rules so there isn't much you can do.

I should mention this guy I played employed an overhead drop shot serve... It was pretty absurd.

 

[purple-n-gold]

^^^^how could I forget Chang Vs. Lendl?

 

[Ben Hadd]

Wrong, here you go....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3JsfD22wHQ
It's not Nadal or Federer, but Karlovic and Haas aren't exactly rec players either. Pro tennis is about money, I assure you if they expected that to work on Nadal, there would be players doing it...
So yeah, it's perfectly legal and people have sucessfully done it on all levels of play (though it rarely ever happens).

I always find it absurd if somone complains about their opponents using such strategies because it makes themselfes look like a fool even more. If you're good enough, you would never complain but much rather take this as an opportunity.

lol hilarious vid. what a foul move though lol

 

[OrangePower]

No one goes into a match expecting or wanting to play patty cake with some one. Its crap and I will gladly stand up and call it such.

It's a pretty bush league tactic to be honest. I don't care for it all, but it's not against the rules so there isn't much you can do.

Yeah, it's crap and bush league.

It's also crap and bush league when an opponent hits like 90% of shots to my backhand. I mean, yeah, my backhand is my weaker shot and I make lots of errors on that side. And it's legal so not much I can do about it. But that's not real tennis. Who wants to play a match where all you get to hit are backhands? I mean seriously, some opponents are just so full of BS I wonder why they even bother playing. They will do whatever it takes to win no matter how unfair.

 

[slice bh compliment]

^That was funny. Good satire.

 

[Big_Dangerous]

Yeah, it's crap and bush league.

It's also crap and bush league when an opponent hits like 90% of shots to my backhand. I mean, yeah, my backhand is my weaker shot and I make lots of errors on that side. And it's legal so not much I can do about it. But that's not real tennis. Who wants to play a match where all you get to hit are backhands? I mean seriously, some opponents are just so full of BS I wonder why they even bother playing. They will do whatever it takes to win no matter how unfair.

Why the **** are you getting mad at me? At least 3 other people said the same damn thing and you picked me out of the bunch to go off on...

Now that's ****ing bush league, bro.

And comparing guys hitting to your back to a drop shot serve... That's a pretty god damn flimsy comparison.

It's an unwritten rule in tennis that you don't do it in a match.

 

[OrangePower]

Why the **** are you getting mad at me? At least 3 other people said the same damn thing and you picked me out of the bunch to go off on...

Now that's ****ing bush league, bro.

And comparing guys hitting to your back to a drop shot serve... That's a pretty god damn flimsy comparison.

It's an unwritten rule in tennis that you don't do it in a match.

Sorry dude I meant no offense. Not mad at you and I picked your post out at random from several that said the same thing.

But the bottom line is, if a shot is legal, then there is nothing bush league about it, as long as the intent in playing the shot is to win the point.

The only time I think a legal shot is bush league is when the intent is more than just winning the point - for example, headhunting for no reason.

Anyway, in a competitive match, you hit whatever shots you need to (that are legal) in order to win. The reason you rarely see drop shot serves is that they don't work. If they worked, you'd see a whole lot more of them.

 

[prgault]

I don't get it. For example when I first started in my league (2x week quad, not USTA) there was an elderly (late 70's?) gentleman with a wicked drop serve. He could and would slap a few flat ones at you and run you around a good bit then rare back and hit his thing that looked for the world like a regular serve until it crossed the net and died. All you could do is laugh. I loved it when we were a team.

I played on rubico a lot when I was learning the game and couldn't imagine anyone getting angry or calling someone out for playing a dink, slice, push style, and serve or otherwise. Maybe its my skill level (3,5) but some of these guys are my toughest opponents.

 

[darrinbaker00]

Why the **** are you getting mad at me? At least 3 other people said the same damn thing and you picked me out of the bunch to go off on...

Now that's ****ing bush league, bro.

And comparing guys hitting to your back to a drop shot serve... That's a pretty god damn flimsy comparison.

It's an unwritten rule in tennis that you don't do it in a match.

If they ever write that rule down, then you and those three other people have a right to complain. Until then, to steal a line from a famous wrestler-turned-actor-turned-back-into-wrestler, KNOW YOUR ROLE AND SHUT YOUR MOUTH!

 

[Big_Dangerous]

If they ever write that rule down, then you and those three other people have a right to complain. Until then, to steal a line from a famous wrestler-turned-actor-turned-back-into-wrestler, KNOW YOUR ROLE AND SHUT YOUR MOUTH!

The fact that you just quoted Dwayne Johnson just made everything you said and everything you will say in the future completely null and void.

 

[darrinbaker00]

The fact that you just quoted Dwayne Johnson just made everything you said and everything you will say in the future completely null and void.

The fact that you knew it was Dwayne Johnson just made everything you said and everything you will say in the future null and void. Hey, this game is fun!

 

[Big_Dangerous]

The fact that you knew it was Dwayne Johnson just made everything you said and everything you will say in the future null and void. Hey, this game is fun!

Oh give me a freaking break man. He's been in a lot of movies and we were all like 12 or 13 once and thought pro wrestling was cool.

If you didn't, you were deprived as a child.

 

[tennis tom]

It's an unwritten rule in tennis that you don't do it in a match.

Show me where it says that in writing.

 

[Big_Dangerous]

Show me where it says that in writing.

I said it's an unwritten rule...


:roll:

 

[TheOneHander]

I said it's an unwritten rule...


:roll:

Big_Dangerous 2, everybody else, 0.

Keep this up, it's entertaining!

 

[tennis tom]

Big_Dangerous 2, everybody else, 0.

Ya, but who's keeping score?

 

[TheOneHander]

Ya, but who's keeping score?

I am, of course.

 

[tennis tom]

I am, of course.

Why?......

 

[Timbo's hopeless slice]

Meh. You don't see it much, but it happens. Just another thing to watch out for. Bush League? What is that? Is that some sneaky stuff that wins matches? How rude!

 

[Big_Dangerous]

Meh. You don't see it much, but it happens. Just another thing to watch out for. Bush League? What is that? Is that some sneaky stuff that wins matches? How rude!

Bush League is like intentionally throwing at a batter in baseball because you're pissed they're hitting you hard or one of their players said something or did something you don't like.

It's not against the rules to hit a batter in baseball, but most would agree it shouldn't be done.


Here's the history of the expression just for some added perspective.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bush+league

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_baseball_(B)


"A slang term used to describe play that is of minor league or unprofessional quality. The "bushes" or the "sticks" are small towns where minor league teams may operate, the latter term also used in the acting profession, famously in the Variety headline of July 17, 1935, "Sticks nix hick pix", meaning small towns reject motion pictures about small towns. A "busher" refers to someone from the "bush leagues": see subtitle of Ring Lardner's first book, "You Know Me Al: A Busher's Letters."'

 

[Sentinel]

Yeah, it's crap and bush league.

It's also crap and bush league when an opponent hits like 90% of shots to my backhand. I mean, yeah, my backhand is my weaker shot and I make lots of errors on that side. And it's legal so not much I can do about it. But that's not real tennis. Who wants to play a match where all you get to hit are backhands? I mean seriously, some opponents are just so full of BS I wonder why they even bother playing. They will do whatever it takes to win no matter how unfair.

Well spoken, Sir.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Here's a new one. I played against this fella last week who would hit drop shot serves that did not bounce as high as the net. If I moved in to volley, he would suddenly acquire a "traditional serve". Essentially, I had to sit one foot from the service box, with my butt on my heels and hit drop shot returns. The things folks do to play to win, without actually trying to play tennis friggin' astounds me.

You are getting some heat for saying what most people think when they face these kinds of players. However, no one truly enjoys playing folks who resort to gimicks to be competitive ... these players do this because they cannot stay close unless they resort to unpredictable tactics and fortunately they also rarely win past 3.5.

 

[jht32]

Here's a new one. I played against this fella last week who would hit drop shot serves that did not bounce as high as the net. If I moved in to volley, he would suddenly acquire a "traditional serve". Essentially, I had to sit one foot from the service box, with my butt on my heels and hit drop shot returns. The things folks do to play to win, without actually trying to play tennis friggin' astounds me.

I believe the rule is that ALL serves MUST bounce as high as the net. Please report this fella to the USTA. I cannot believe the nerve of this fella trying to win instead of trying to play tennis as his opponent wants him too. Does he have no shame?

 

[CANTGETENOUGHTENNIS!]

remember that time hingis pulled it twice in a row at wimby? that was insane.

 

[volleygirl]

If it was not effective against you, then why are you complaining? Your post sounds like a typical sore loser sour grapes rant.

You won't see get your wish of seeing someone do it against Nadal, because it is a losing shot against Nadal, hence no-one would attempt it.

OrangePower can't hit an effective drop shot serve because the people OrangePower plays against are good enough to make mincemeat out of it every time. There is no such thing as an effective drop-shot serve at higher levels - if there was, you'd be seeing it regularly in ATP matches.

I agree. Why complain if it wasnt effective? Thats like a defense in football complaining about the QB changing up the snapcount. Its part of the game so deal with it and stop whining.

 

[volleygirl]

I believe the rule is that ALL serves MUST bounce as high as the net. Please report this fella to the USTA. I cannot believe the nerve of this fella trying to win instead of trying to play tennis as his opponent wants him too. Does he have no shame?

The nerve of some people. Actually taking advantage of a slow poke on the other side of the net and tryin to win a point on his serve.

 

[tennis tom]

Bush League is like intentionally throwing at a batter in baseball because you're pissed they're hitting you hard or one of their players said something or did something you don't like.

It's not against the rules to hit a batter in baseball, but most would agree it shouldn't be done.

I believe it IS against the rules to intentionally throw at a batter in baseball, because I saw on the news last night, that a pitcher was thrown out of a game for doing it.

 

[andfor]

remember that time hingis pulled it twice in a row at wimby? that was insane.

Reminds me of the time Michael Chang did it to Lendl back in 1989 on his way to winning the French Open. The nerve of him to try to catch his opponent by surprise to try to win within the (written) rules. The shame of it all. Next time I see Chang I'm going to tell him his only GS is Bushleague!

 

[chopstic]

I believe it IS against the rules to intentionally throw at a batter in baseball, because I saw on the news last night, that a pitcher was thrown out of a game for doing it.

correct.. don't mistake unsportsmanlike conduct with a gimmick serve. Besides, how boring would the game of tennis be today if no ever pushed the limits of "tennis etiquette".

 

[Whirly]

I do this. I have an awful second serve. I am working on it. Drop shot second serve (over arm) has worked for me in the past. I will continue to do it as I try to improve my second serve.

Some people get annoyed, some people laugh and some people punish it. Its not my fault if some people are too crap to capitalize on my crapness!.

 

[spot]

If someone is standing really far back because they want to let a kick serve drop into their hitting zone, then I see absolutely nothing wrong with hitting a drop shot off of the serve to make them cover the part of the court they are conceding. You should be able to take advantage of someone standing too far back.

I just don't get how someone could COMPLAIN about an opponent serving too soft.

I'll also say that when it happens in doubles I think the only response from the returner should be to hit at the net person and try and hit them. The server won't continue to dropshot if their partner is pissed at them for doing so.

 

[EKnee08]

Wrong, here you go....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3JsfD22wHQ
It's not Nadal or Federer, but Karlovic and Haas aren't exactly rec players either. Pro tennis is about money, I assure you if they expected that to work on Nadal, there would be players doing it...
So yeah, it's perfectly legal and people have sucessfully done it on all levels of play (though it rarely ever happens).

I always find it absurd if somone complains about their opponents using such strategies because it makes themselfes look like a fool even more. If you're good enough, you would never complain but much rather take this as an opportunity.

Yes and Michael Chang used i to to beat Lendl on the way to his one and only grand slam at the French Open.

I had one "friend" who used it once or twice a match (both singles and doubles) particularly on har-tru. He would fake and "quickserve" underhand when you ere not focused or ready. At first, he would win about 60-70% of those points against his opponents. He was a great athlete and could respond to good returns. I hated to see it because it would take you out of rhytme and I tended to overhit it.

However, when my game further developed, it never worked. I would crush it every time he tried it or ocassionally throw him off and drop it back.

 

[blakesq]

Of course, I can see how they could COMPLAIN. They are a sore losers.

If someone is standing really far back because they want to let a kick serve drop into their hitting zone, then I see absolutely nothing wrong with hitting a drop shot off of the serve to make them cover the part of the court they are conceding. You should be able to take advantage of someone standing too far back.

I just don't get how someone could COMPLAIN about an opponent serving too soft.

I'll also say that when it happens in doubles I think the only response from the returner should be to hit at the net person and try and hit them. The server won't continue to dropshot if their partner is pissed at them for doing so.

 

[sarmpas]

Some of the replies on here kill me. You people that know full well what the OP is saying and still try to take some type of argumentative stance is ridiculous.

Is the "dropshot serve" legal...of course. Is it complete BS at a competitive level....you betcha.

No one goes into a match expecting or wanting to play patty cake with some one. Its crap and I will gladly stand up and call it such.

Why would it bother you? Serious question. The way I see it; if my opponent wants to play unorthodox tennis that's fine by me. It's a different challenge. I'll make the same effort to win as I would against a 'proper' player.

There's a guy at my club who hits junk all the time because he can't hit a 'proper' shot to save his life. All he does is block and redirect shots and hits little dinks. My usual power game is inconsistent so when we doubles and have a singles hit(no scoring) he wins points so he thought he had a chance against me in singles and challenged me.

Well I gave him a shock. I knew if I played my normal game he'd win quite a few points and maybe take a few games off me. So I fed him junk, a taste of his own medicine. I hit slices, dinks, slices with wicked sidespin, etc. I gave him no pace to work with.

He was baffled. 'Your not playing your normal game, you're not missing, your not hitting your hard shots' he said after losing the first set 0-6. He lost the second 0-6 as well. It was fun I had more game than he thought.

 

[slice bh compliment]

^That^ is a great attitude. Can you imagine of more players saw tennis that way? So positive and fun.

On a sort of related note...I've always been an attacking player with some touch. I used to play these two guys all the time. One played on my college team. The other played between 4 and 6 or 8 for a top ten DI school. I was good friends w/ both, and we had many great practice matches.

Both expressed frustration when I'd dropshot. Not on serve, just in rallies and while approaching. Just too clay-ish a game for them (both were total hardcourt baseline bashers). They saw it as not really 'tennis'. They saw it as 'bush league', even though top pros do it all the time. And these were both DI college players who knew the game very well. One became an academy coach for a while.

My point was that a dropshot is a completely legitimate way to burn a guy who is playing way back, trying to handle his opponent's power and depth. They are adapting to my depth by playing way back, and I'm adapting to their defensive position by hitting very short.

I think they got it, but they'd still make snide comments that I'm playing old man style. Fine with me, especially now that I really am older.

As for the dropshot serve...if it is done underhand, it's slimy, but there's precedent at the highest levels...as a surprise tactic. If it is done overhand, I just do not see how it can work regularly. It is coming from too high, so, unless the returner is standing really far back or is pretty slow, I don't see it working well.

I love goofing off and hitting some of the underhand serves with the wicked sidespin. I've never done it in an actual tournament, but it's definitely fun to make the ball make a 90 degree turn and run off the court, haha.

 

[Gasolina]

Damn I used to have a wicked overhead drop serve when I was still starting tennis. I had a crap 1st serve and an even crappier dink 2nd serve and the local pro was teaching me the kick serve.

Of course, I wasn't getting much racquet behind the ball and I had this ultra spinny serve that goes to the left and bounces further to the left.

What I did was aimed my serve to the court on my right on ad , and to the right post on deuce so the ball would go in.

It would bounce so low that my friends had to go near the service line to return it. When they did, I'd just hit a normal no pace flat serve into their feet.

Of course, now that I got better, I don't know how to do that serve anymore. Good times.

 

[slice bh compliment]

Hha, I can see it now^

Do you guys ever do the trick serve when you toss it up, swing too early and miss, then gently hit a dropper with the backhand side of the racquet as the ball is still coming down?
That's a trip for my daughter. She laughs and laughs. The first half of it is a pathetic miss. Th esecond half is almost like a high-tossed short serve in table tennis.

Or the one where you toss way to the left and behind you, then turn your body to the right as you hit it as a Bh smash?

Or the one Lendl did to Mac, where he feigned a big serve, but just knocked it short with a tiny little backhand bump?

The heavy sidespin underhander is my favorite, but these are fun, too.

Good times.