Drug tests catch Olympic athlete eight years late

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Will doping tennis players from Athens & Beijing Olympics get caught too?

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22146-drug-tests-catch-olympic-athlete-eight-years-late.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news

Drug tests catch Olympic athlete eight years late

17:20 07 August 2012 by Gilead Amit
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It was a heavy blow for Belarus as Ivan Tsikhan, their champion hammer thrower, was withdrawn from the Olympic Games last week after he was found to have used banned substances to win silver in Athens eight years ago.

Drug cheats develop ever more sophisticated ways of avoiding detection while anti-doping authorities hurry to catch up. This game of cat and mouse gives the International Olympics Committee (IOC) reason to maintain an eight-year statute of limitations on drug-related offences.

However, anti-doping technologies may be so far behind that this statute could be extended to 14 years, says Andy Parkinson, chief executive of UK Anti-Doping.

Since Tsikhan won the silver medal in 2004, the IOC has implemented a number of new procedures to test for performance-enhancing substances, the most significant of which was the biological passport. This relies on regular monitoring of an athlete's biological functions to identify any suspicious changes.

There are also improved tests for so-called designer steroids and a class of drugs called CERA, which increase the production of red blood cells. One innovation introduced the week the London games started was an improved detection system for human growth hormone (HGH). The test identifies two biomarkers whose concentration in the body rises when synthetic HGH is present.

Which test caught Tsikhan out has yet to be confirmed.
 
What exactly happens to this Tsikhan guy? Will he be forced to give back his medal?

Belongs in the Odds/Ends forums, just a heads up.
 
You have all these performance junkies...and then you have

Olympic Athlete Nick Delpopolo Expelled For Marijuana.

Like....how is that going to help him win?
 
Alchemy-Z said:
You have all these performance junkies...and then you have

Olympic Athlete Nick Delpopolo Expelled For Marijuana.

Like....how is that going to help him win?
Click to expand...

Seriously?!
That is ridiculous.
What's the reasoning behind that then?
 
OldFedIsOld said:
What exactly happens to this Tsikhan guy? Will he be forced to give back his medal?

Belongs in the Odds/Ends forums, just a heads up.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. He can always say it was stolen, he sold it etc. They will/might give a replacement to the next guy, or just change the record books.

This really blows since in some events you have a certain number of attempts allowed, and you choose your attempts based on what the leaders have. So you could well go "bust" rather than try for a 4th place.

Thus, when one medalist is caught, handing the bronze to the 4th guy may not really be fair. Also, in events where there are heats and semis, because of a doper someone did not make the final, but could have, so again it's just not fair on the rest of the field.

In my country, medalists get huge cash awards and out of turn promotions etc. Wondering if getting a medal upgrade or a medal 8 years later would benefit said athlete. And what of the guy who was caught. How does he return everything back to his country ?
 
Sentinel said:
Not necessarily. He can always say it was stolen, he sold it etc. They will/might give a replacement to the next guy, or just change the record books.

This really blows since in some events you have a certain number of attempts allowed, and you choose your attempts based on what the leaders have. So you could well go "bust" rather than try for a 4th place.

Thus, when one medalist is caught, handing the bronze to the 4th guy may not really be fair. Also, in events where there are heats and semis, because of a doper someone did not make the final, but could have, so again it's just not fair on the rest of the field.

In my country, medalists get huge cash awards and out of turn promotions etc. Wondering if getting a medal upgrade or a medal 8 years later would benefit said athlete. And what of the guy who was caught. How does he return everything back to his country ?
Click to expand...

This is a great post, with one caveat.

I agree that even if/when the dopers get caught, they have already managed to enjoy all the fruits of their cheating.

But, you seem to be assuming that his competitors were not doping, which I think is more often than not, simply not true.

The fact of the matter is, if you want to compete at the highest levels in most sports, you need to keep pace with your competition. If they dope, you must too. This has been true for a very, very long time.

As the article says, its nearly impossible to catch most dopers "in real time". The ones that do get caught are simply using outdated doping methods. Not surprisingly, these are also not high profile athletes. These athletes simply cannot afford the multi-thousands of dollar "designer drugs". They take their chances and some do indeed get caught.
 
r2473 said:
This is a great post, with one caveat.

I agree that even if/when the dopers get caught, they have already managed to enjoy all the fruits of their cheating.

But, you seem to be assuming that his competitors were not doping, which I think is more often than not, simply not true.

The fact of the matter is, if you want to compete at the highest levels in most sports, you need to keep pace with your competition. If they dope, you must too. This has been true for a very, very long time.

As the article says, its nearly impossible to catch most dopers "in real time". The ones that do get caught are simply using outdated doping methods. Not surprisingly, these are also not high profile athletes. These athletes simply cannot afford the multi-thousands of dollar "designer drugs". They take their chances and some do indeed get caught.
Click to expand...

Sad but true. What does this ultimately lead to?
I’d hate to bring my 12 yrs old grandson to the tennis court one day in the future and tell him: “You’ve got to ingest some of this stuff to be able to compete with these kids.”
 
marijuana can certainly have performance enhancing capabilities, but my understanding is that these tests don't distinguish between subjects who are currently under the influence, or who have used it in the recent past.

This is unfortunate, as I think marijuana use in the right context can be part of a perfectly normal and healthy life.
 
spacediver said:
marijuana can certainly have performance enhancing capabilities, but my understanding is that these tests don't distinguish between subjects who are currently under the influence, or who have used it in the recent past.

This is unfortunate, as I think marijuana use in the right context can be part of a perfectly normal and healthy life.
Click to expand...

really?? for what type of activities? "laughing without a reason" contest or "who can forget more stuff faster" contest?

anyway .. legalize it!
 
jmverdugo said:
really?? for what type of activities? "laughing without a reason" contest or "who can forget more stuff faster" contest?

anyway .. legalize it!
Click to expand...

people have a very narrow view of the effects of marijuana - it's important to understand that the effects vary dramatically depending on the individual, the type of marijuana (there are thousands of strains, each with its own unique combination of cannabinoids, of which THC is only one), and the dose.

A lot of street stuff these days is bred for high amounts of THC and low amounts of CBD, giving rise to a very potent plant that basically functions to render the user as stoned as possible. But there are many alternatives, some organically outdoor grown heirloom strains, or other breeds that have more subtle interesting effects.

Many users experience enhanced flow and creativity, which can certainly lend well to enhanced performance.

It's important to understand that just like with alcohol, where one need not get drunk but can experience a mild buzz, marijuana use is not all about getting stoned.
 
spacediver said:
people have a very narrow view of the effects of marijuana - it's important to understand that the effects vary dramatically depending on the individual, the type of marijuana (there are thousands of strains, each with its own unique combination of cannabinoids, of which THC is only one), and the dose.

A lot of street stuff these days is bred for high amounts of THC and low amounts of CBD, giving rise to a very potent plant that basically functions to render the user as stoned as possible. But there are many alternatives, some organically outdoor grown heirloom strains, or other breeds that have more subtle interesting effects.

Many users experience enhanced flow and creativity, which can certainly lend well to enhanced performance.

It's important to understand that just like with alcohol, where one need not get drunk but can experience a mild buzz, marijuana use is not all about getting stoned.
Click to expand...

You are correct.

Have you ever been to Amsterdam and ordered off the menu. It's fun messing around with different types.

By the way, I still wouldn't legalize it in America.
 
Last edited:
No I haven't done the cafe tourism in amsterdam, and in fact I rarely do any drugs of any kind, including alcohol and caffeine.

Why wouldn't you legalize it in the states?
 
i play way better when im high. you really get into the zone in what ever activity you are doing. if they call it a performance enhancing drug then i guess it makes sense, but i think just because its illegal, doesnt mean it should be banned.
 
r2473 said:
This is a great post, with one caveat.

I agree that even if/when the dopers get caught, they have already managed to enjoy all the fruits of their cheating.

But, you seem to be assuming that his competitors were not doping, which I think is more often than not, simply not true.

The fact of the matter is, if you want to compete at the highest levels in most sports, you need to keep pace with your competition. If they dope, you must too. This has been true for a very, very long time.

As the article says, its nearly impossible to catch most dopers "in real time". The ones that do get caught are simply using outdated doping methods. Not surprisingly, these are also not high profile athletes. These athletes simply cannot afford the multi-thousands of dollar "designer drugs". They take their chances and some do indeed get caught.
Click to expand...

Absolutely true. When I am talking of someone being caught 4-8 years later, I am assuming that the competitors were also put through the same procedures.

Of course, this only holds true if we are talking about re-testing some old urine samples with new techniques. This does not hold true if the competitors retired but this guy kept competing and was caught later.

However, generally I agree with you that the others would be doping, too.
 
I wonder what kind of penalties players incur when they are caught for doping. Is it just a ban from sport, or are there prison sentences and/or heavy fines.

If it's just a ban, then that's nothing. You have little to lose really, and a lot to gain. Don't talk of shame or pride since people have short-term memories and everyone isn't so much into sports. Some one being banned 2-4 years later makes a little entry in the side column of the sports page of a paper, winning a medal puts you on the front page with telly interviews etc.



SLD76 said:
8 years

10storages
Click to expand...

8 years may be the period for which they are storing the samples. However, I read that they use substances to mask PED's, and these substances break down in a few days/weeks, so they are undetectable later. By that time I presume, traces of the PED's would have also gone.
 
Am I the only one that thinks it would be quite a lot of fun to just say screw it, take whatever you want, may the best man/woman/drug team win!??
 
Govnor said:
Am I the only one that thinks it would be quite a lot of fun to just say screw it, take whatever you want, may the best man/woman/drug team win!??
Click to expand...

I am with you. Let them all take whatever they want and let's see how far science can take the human animal.

We have already advanced diets, training methods, recovery methods, why are those acceptable? Athletes of yesteryear did not have access to these advanced training techniques, supplements, etc. I bet not all athletes today have access to the same advanced training techniques, supplements, etc. So why are PEDs any different? The PED on its own will not win the race - the athlete still needs to perform.

If you ban PEDs, you need to ban all modern training techniques, advancements made in nutrition, and recovery methods. In fact, get rid of coaches. Just push the athlete on the track and have him run willy-nilly.

Is it because some choose to abuse PEDs and suffer the health consequences? That can be said for just about anything. You can abuse foods and develop disease, but those things are not banned.
 
pennc94 said:
I am with you. Let them all take whatever they want and let's see how far science can take the human animal.

We have already advanced diets, training methods, recovery methods, why are those acceptable? Athletes of yesteryear did not have access to these advanced training techniques, supplements, etc. I bet not all athletes today have access to the same advanced training techniques, supplements, etc. So why are PEDs any different? The PED on its own will not win the race - the athlete still needs to perform.

If you ban PEDs, you need to ban all modern training techniques, advancements made in nutrition, and recovery methods. In fact, get rid of coaches. Just push the athlete on the track and have him run willy-nilly.

Is it because some choose to abuse PEDs and suffer the health consequences? That can be said for just about anything. You can abuse foods and develop disease, but those things are not banned.
Click to expand...


To feel like this you obviously never played any sport past a high school level. Comparing PEDs to advances in nutrition and recovery methods is about the most ridiculous thing I have seen on this board.

Its supposed to be a competitoin to prove who the best athlete is, not who has the best chemist shooting stuff into their bodies.
 
Last edited:
pennc94 said:
I am with you. Let them all take whatever they want and let's see how far science can take the human animal.

We have already advanced diets, training methods, recovery methods, why are those acceptable? Athletes of yesteryear did not have access to these advanced training techniques, supplements, etc. I bet not all athletes today have access to the same advanced training techniques, supplements, etc. So why are PEDs any different? The PED on its own will not win the race - the athlete still needs to perform.

If you ban PEDs, you need to ban all modern training techniques, advancements made in nutrition, and recovery methods. In fact, get rid of coaches. Just push the athlete on the track and have him run willy-nilly.

Is it because some choose to abuse PEDs and suffer the health consequences? That can be said for just about anything. You can abuse foods and develop disease, but those things are not banned.
Click to expand...

Just wondering. If one is allowed to take anything including steroids, and everyone in almost every event comes looking like the Incredible Hulk, then sports viewership will decline, sponsorships will decline ... and sports might become amateur again. Does that make any sense ? Or we might then have a parallel tour which is amateur and in which testing *is* done. So back to square one.
 
Sentinel said:
Just wondering. If one is allowed to take anything including steroids, and everyone in almost every event comes looking like the Incredible Hulk, then sports viewership will decline, sponsorships will decline ... and sports might become amateur again. Does that make any sense ? Or we might then have a parallel tour which is amateur and in which testing *is* done. So back to square one.
Click to expand...

It would be pretty cool to have a PED / non-PED leagues, but who would watch the non-PED league? Who wants to watch guys perform several levels below their PED counterparts? For example, there are in fact real tested bodybuilding events, but who cares about these guys? They're "tiny".

Right now, all we have are PED leagues at the professional level (and yes, this applies to your favorite sport too, not just cycling, lol).
 
hollywood9826 said:
Perfect example of the above statement.

WNBA, nobody watches becuase they suck
Click to expand...

WNBA is fun to watch if you like "X's and O's" type basketball, as opposed to the "athletic style" played in the NBA (and often in college these days too).

The WNBA really is a showcase of technical basketball (but I agree, its boring because the physical level is so much lower).
 
r2473 said:
It would be pretty cool to have a PED / non-PED leagues, but who would watch the non-PED league? Who wants to watch guys perform several levels below their PED counterparts? For example, there are in fact real tested bodybuilding events, but who cares about these guys? They're "tiny".

Right now, all we have are PED leagues at the professional level (and yes, this applies to your favorite sport too, not just cycling, lol).
Click to expand...

I used to follow BB alot, esp Mr Olympia. But then I stopped when these guys were becoming too huge and abnormal looking. I quit BB myself and stopped watching those freaks. :D
 
Sentinel said:
I used to follow BB alot, esp Mr Olympia. But then I stopped when these guys were becoming too huge and abnormal looking. I quit BB myself and stopped watching those freaks. :D
Click to expand...

See, you follow the drug guys yourself.

There are drug free guys out there, but few people follow them or know who they are.
 
volleygirl said:
To feel like this you obviously never played any sport past a high school level. Comparing PEDs to advances in nutrition and recovery methods is about the most ridiculous thing I have seen on this board.

Its supposed to be a competitoin to prove who the best athlete is, not who has the best chemist shooting stuff into their bodies.
Click to expand...

I have played sports past high school - thanks. Do not assume.

It isn't ridiculous if you think seriously about it for a moment.

What accounts for the improvements in athletic performance over time? Could it be better information about nutrition, recovery, technique, etc? How did those breakthroughs get made? Science? Do you think that a gifted athlete today could compete with others at the world-class level without utilizing the information we now have about nutrition, recovery, technique, etc? That athlete would be at a disadvantage just like a PED vs. non-PED athlete.

Also, to say that PEDs reduces things to a contest of chemists is a bit simplistic. The athletes still need to train and execute.
 
Sentinel said:
Just wondering. If one is allowed to take anything including steroids, and everyone in almost every event comes looking like the Incredible Hulk, then sports viewership will decline, sponsorships will decline ... and sports might become amateur again. Does that make any sense ? Or we might then have a parallel tour which is amateur and in which testing *is* done. So back to square one.
Click to expand...

I think many more people would watch. Wouldn't you want to see a 7 second 100 meters?

Also, PEDs don't necessarily make Hulks - just look at world class cycling.
 
pennc94 said:
I think many more people would watch. Wouldn't you want to see a 7 second 100 meters?

Also, PEDs don't necessarily make Hulks - just look at world class cycling.
Click to expand...

Why stop there…how about 4 sec?
Who will get more credit… the athlete or the chemist?
Would the Olympics be a showcase of best athletes or just a conference for designer drug companies showcasing their products/athletes?
In term of tennis, there won’t be a top 10, just 10 of number ones.
Is this what you have in mind?
 
pennc94 said:
I think many more people would watch. Wouldn't you want to see a 7 second 100 meters?

Also, PEDs don't necessarily make Hulks - just look at world class cycling.
Click to expand...

maleyoyo said:
Why stop there…how about 4 sec?
Who will get more credit… the athlete or the chemist?
Would the Olympics be a showcase of best athletes or just a conference for designer drug companies showcasing their products/athletes?
In term of tennis, there won’t be a top 10, just 10 of number ones.
Is this what you have in mind?
Click to expand...

So are you guys figuring that, if PED's would just be legal, then everyone would use them and we would be getting these amazing results?

Geez, lucky they aren't "legal" now. But just imagine how things would change if they were, lol.
 
maleyoyo said:
Why stop there…how about 4 sec?
Who will get more credit… the athlete or the chemist?
Would the Olympics be a showcase of best athletes or just a conference for designer drug companies showcasing their products/athletes?
In term of tennis, there won’t be a top 10, just 10 of number ones.
Is this what you have in mind?
Click to expand...

Olympics would still be a showcase of athletes. Only one person can win even if all athletes are on PEDs. Does the sprinter get all the credit now? Isn't he a part of a team with coaches and physios?

The difference between the winner and the others would not necessarily be the PEDs the winner used. There are too many variables. Do you think that 2nd place in 100 meters would have won if he took PEDs?

Well you know tennis cannot have ten number 1 players, but imagine the matches!
 
r2473 said:
So are you guys figuring that, if PED's would just be legal, then everyone would use them and we would be getting these amazing results?

Geez, lucky they aren't "legal" now. But just imagine how things would change if they were, lol.
Click to expand...

That is because The IOC and all the sports governing bodies have been trying to control it. I don’ think they are too serious about it, but at least they are sending a message and contain the situation. Imagine if the drug companies get a green light and the public expectations/attitude remain the same, it would be disastrous.
The PED effect will trickle down to amateur, junior…
The day they come to recruit 6 yrs old kids and start putting them on PED programs, running 6s/100m is not that far-fetched.
 
maleyoyo said:
That is because The IOC and all the sports governing bodies have been trying to control it. I don’ think they are too serious about it, but at least they are sending a message and contain the situation.
Click to expand...

No, the IOC is VERY serious about it. Probably the most serious of any sporting organization.

But the "rules of the game" are such that, they will always be playing catch-up.

The PED effect will trickle down to amateur, junior…
Click to expand...

It's already there. Has been for a long time.
 
Last edited:
r2473 said:
No, the IOC is VERY serious about it. Probably the most serious of any sporting organization.

But the "rules of the game" are such that, they will always be playing catch-up.



It's already there. Has been for a long time.
Click to expand...

I don’t think they are too serious. For one it’s hard for me to imagine an organization like the IOC with massive funding behind it can be beaten by the drug cheaters. It’s all about money. If they are willing to put a lot more money to it they can improve the results dramatically.
Secondly if they catch too many high profile cheaters, it is bad for business.
Thirdly, as you see in this thread, people want to see a show every four years and forget about it. They don’t care what goes on behind the scene with the athletes. We are not that far from the gladiator days only different in forms. Until those change, not much will be changed.
Just my opinions.
 
Have you read this interview with Heredia?

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=412846

I think your logic is correct for most sports.

I think the IOC is more serious. In fact, I think they are very serious. Now, if Usain Bolt or Phelps tested positive tomorrow, what would happen? Would it become public knowledge? Would they be stripped of all medals and banned? That I'm not sure about. They might. They are the only organization I can say that about.

I think the IOC does everything they can to catch "dopers", but they are fighting a losing battle. Heredia sort of explains why. It's a good read.
 
Last edited:
r2473 said:
Have you read this interview with Heredia?

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=412846

I think your logic is correct for most sports.

I think the IOC is more serious. In fact, I think they are very serious. Now, if Usain Bolt or Phelps tested positive tomorrow, what would happen? Would it become public knowledge? Would they be stripped of all medals and banned? That I'm not sure about. They might. They are the only organization I can say that about.

I think the IOC does everything they can to catch "dopers", but they are fighting a losing battle. Heredia sort of explains why. It's a good read.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the link.
From what I’ve read the IOC announces in advance what substances will be tested for and the timeline for testing. It’s sort of giving it away don’t you think? Their testing methodology is far from superior.
I have mixed feelings about the IOC maybe from reading Dick Pound materials in the past.
You know they got Ben Johnson but Lewis...I doubt it. Don’t underestimate the pressure from the international communities where politics money and power are all intertwined.
 
r2473 said:
I just wouldn't.

If I generalize, I'll get bogged down in a pedantic argument.
Click to expand...

I don't follow - generalize about what?

and I'm still baffled that any rational person would argue for maintaining criminalization of marijuana - it makes zero sense. Banning cigarettes and alcohol would be infinitely more rational (yet doing so would promote other problems associated with black market).

But marijuana illegal?? It's one of the safest drugs out there (FAR safer than alcohol and tobacco).
 
pennc94 said:
I think many more people would watch. Wouldn't you want to see a 7 second 100 meters?

Also, PEDs don't necessarily make Hulks - just look at world class cycling.
Click to expand...
I said "almost all events".

r2473 said:
See, you follow the drug guys yourself.

There are drug free guys out there, but few people follow them or know who they are.
Click to expand...

I followed BB when I didn't know they were on drugs. When it became obvious, I quit following.
 
Just read this today morning.

6/10 doping.

Talking to The Times, the 62-year-old said the rigorous testing programme at the London Games was irrelevant as athletes would make sure they were clean for the competition. Claims about the number of tests being carried out were simply "propaganda" he argued.

"You have to put your hook and line in the water when the fish are biting, and that was nine months ago," he said.

Conte, who was jailed after the Balco scandal, is in London for the Games and has been working with athletes including American sprinter Ryan Bailey, who came fifth in the 100m, and women's bronze medal boxer Marlen Esparza. He insists that he is now a legitimate businessman and anti-doping campaigner.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/olympics/l...athletes-drugs-says-balco-chief#ixzz237BVh8KA
 
cannabis opens your blood vessels, that can be an advantage. when im medicated i can feel the effects of better blood circulation through my body. so that could be a reason its banned.

also you are more creative so you are prone to visualize things better, what the non tokers would call spacing off, or daydreaming. i know that when im medicated i am visualizing my swing, where im putting the ball, my target etc etc way better than i would when im "sober". so this is also why i could understand it being banned.

alcohol is banned from certain events because it helps reduce tremor when one shoots.

cannabis is a heck of a plant, such a shame that it has been caught up in politics. we can only hope spacedriver that in time someone in the government will stand up to their peers free this plant.
 
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