DT in numbers.
- Thread starter Franklins
- Start date
esgee48
G.O.A.T.
The range of posted losses would be unacceptable to me. It means the stringer is pulling and clamping before the string has a chance to stretch. What would be acceptable for me and my clients is << 2# of lost tension between the time it is strung and delivered back to the client. I would say > 90% of my jobs have < 1# lost tension.
dr. godmode
Hall of Fame
Yeah stringers technique would introduce tremendous bias into any list. One of the big challenges with testing any string.
Focusing on any single variable too closely misses the point. Tension loss especially is given way more importance than it deserves. 10% in tension loss shouldn’t mean you are suddenly missing 10% more balls out.
Focusing on any single variable too closely misses the point. Tension loss especially is given way more importance than it deserves. 10% in tension loss shouldn’t mean you are suddenly missing 10% more balls out.
einca13
Rookie
Somewhat in-line with the other responses and of course is very dependent on which poly string I use.
Typically off the stringer I am at a DT of 32 and sitting until the next day it drops to 30 or 6% loss. After the first hitting session it drops to 28 or a total loss of 13% from stringing. Drops another 2 or so with each hit and after 3 hits or about 6 hours the strings are spent.
Typically off the stringer I am at a DT of 32 and sitting until the next day it drops to 30 or 6% loss. After the first hitting session it drops to 28 or a total loss of 13% from stringing. Drops another 2 or so with each hit and after 3 hits or about 6 hours the strings are spent.
LOBALOT
Legend
I think part of this is the stringer and their thoughts about poly and stringing it.
I can pre-stretch the heck out of poly so it plays like crap and have it maintain its tension... Or, I can not and string poly so that it plays as the manufacturer designed it to play but not perhaps play forever.
I think the question is meaningless.
I can pre-stretch the heck out of poly so it plays like crap and have it maintain its tension... Or, I can not and string poly so that it plays as the manufacturer designed it to play but not perhaps play forever.
I think the question is meaningless.
LOBALOT
Legend
Sure so what you are asking is how the string will perform without prestreching it and there is data available on this subject based on the data the manufacturers submit and is measured.
As such I am confused as to actually what your re asking in this thread.
einca13
Rookie
The DT decreases are typical as described when I use Tourna Black Zone, TruPro Black Knight and Pure Rush as well as Grapplesnake M8. Some strings I have used in the past like ALU (no surprise) and Cyclone Tour are worse and 4G Soft is better.
LOBALOT
Legend
You missed my point entirely. As someone who strings racquets it all depends how the string is strung. The information you are attempting to assemble here is meaningless without taking into account how the string was strung. Just having people provide feedback on string and how it drops tension 2 hours later doesn't really mater.
There are people on this board who pre-stretch all their poly string. Others, like me that don't.
Can I ask which/type of machine it was strung on?
HeavyHitter
Rookie
There are too many variables in this topic to state any consistent numbers. Head size, string pattern, weather, how hard you hit, string itself, stringing quality, etc. I use it as a reference to justify my tension when I'm testing a new string or if the weather is changing. It can be a handy tool to help you dial in your tension.
You can check TWs string database for comparisons on a lot of strings. Those numbers should be good for comparison within the dataset since they are presumably gathered in a consistent manner. With random reports on the forum you'd really need a lot of data points to produce any kind of reliability. It might be good enough for selecting a few options to test yourself though. The string I use currently Weiss Cannon Ultra Cable has a relatively bad reputation for tension loss on these boards and is average or lower middle I think on the TW data, but it's good enough for me to play until breakage.
I do string my own frames on a drop weight (Stringway), so I think that's pretty much best case for tension loss on the stringing side. I also have, for a long time now, factored in about 2 weeks of sitting in the bag break-in on my frames so that helps as well. By the time I pull a frame out of the bag all the initial loss is pretty much baked in to the equation.
I do string my own frames on a drop weight (Stringway), so I think that's pretty much best case for tension loss on the stringing side. I also have, for a long time now, factored in about 2 weeks of sitting in the bag break-in on my frames so that helps as well. By the time I pull a frame out of the bag all the initial loss is pretty much baked in to the equation.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Some manufacturers prestretch their poly
LOBALOT
Legend
Exactly, so pre stretching it again would even make it deader which is another reason I do not pre stretch any poly I string.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
But it makes it retain tension better which is why manufacturers do it. Just saying in a thread about tension loss in poly that prestretching the string pulling on one end will improve tension maintenance
LOBALOT
Legend
Correct. The difference is that the manufacturer is designing for sale the string with those characteristics and doing so in a controled/automated environment so it is done consistently from string to string.
Identifying a string you like say string ABC and then stretching produces a totally different string DEF let alone / ignoring the ability to do it consistently from string job to string job.
As someone who strings for others if I get a request to string ABC at 50 lbs I am not going to pre stretch it and give them string DEF back to them at 50 lbs.
I have never really been into prestretching. I've always just adjusted my machine tension to get something I liked at the end of stringing. I am curious if anyone knows of a report or study on the differences in outcomes of prestretching versus just stringing at different tensions. The question I am curious about is whether or not the spectrum of outcomes from prestretching and stringing at tension X overlap the spectrum of outcomes from just stringing at tension X+Y for instance.
Also if there is some set of outcomes that don't overlap, then what tensions should be used to prestretch with? I'm assuming that prestretching at 50lbs. makes very little difference if you are stringing at 60lbs, but if you prestretch at 60lbs and then string at 50lbs, that presumably would make a difference. Also what happens if you prestretch at 80lbs and then only string at 40lbs. Is the tension maintenance great, but the feel terrible?
All these questions I have is the main reason, besides laziness, I just dial in a tension I like for each new string I use. I'm not in any way confident I could produce a consistently better outcome than just finding my favorite tension and sticking with it. There might be some strings I would be inclined to prestretch, like ZX, based on reports here on the boards, but I'd probably just try it out at different tensions first to find out if tension loss is actually a problem for me or not.
Also if there is some set of outcomes that don't overlap, then what tensions should be used to prestretch with? I'm assuming that prestretching at 50lbs. makes very little difference if you are stringing at 60lbs, but if you prestretch at 60lbs and then string at 50lbs, that presumably would make a difference. Also what happens if you prestretch at 80lbs and then only string at 40lbs. Is the tension maintenance great, but the feel terrible?
All these questions I have is the main reason, besides laziness, I just dial in a tension I like for each new string I use. I'm not in any way confident I could produce a consistently better outcome than just finding my favorite tension and sticking with it. There might be some strings I would be inclined to prestretch, like ZX, based on reports here on the boards, but I'd probably just try it out at different tensions first to find out if tension loss is actually a problem for me or not.
ObiWanHBH
New User
and different styles of stringing machines and electronic settings that pre-stretch string to various amounts…
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Well its true that if no one asks for prestretching then you shouldn’t do it. And since prestretching reduces tension loss and increases string job life there is a negative incentive for stringers who string for others (presumably for cash) to do it. “Let me get this straight, you want me to spend MORE time on a string job and make it last LONGER? That is not smart business!!”
But if you are a home stringer its a totally different deal.
Its possible to be consistent on the prestretching. You just measure the total elongation. Or measure the time under tension. This is with a manual means. Not talking about machine prestretching because I don’t think it stretches the string permanently.
Since I always do hybrids and prestretch both mains and crosses, thats 2 jobs from packs of strings that will string the same. Or if I have reels I can prestretch several string jobs from one prestretching session.
Its also possible to prestretch and string at a lower tension to get a similar feel and still get the tension maintenance. I can see that as a competitive edge. You string a prestretched string say 10 lbs lower, say 40lbs and no way another stringer can get the same feel with a non prestretched string at the same 40lbs. But as I said before stringing so tension loss is baked in is just good business
LOBALOT
Legend
I would prestretch if asked. I am not asked.
While a pre-stretch does help with longevity it does change the string performance in other ways.
As far as consistency. If today I take a piece of string and wrap it around a pole and lean back for 1 minute and get an additional foot out of the string and I like how it performs and tomorrow I take another piece of the same string and wrap it around the same pole and lean back for minute and measure and get 2 feet simply because it's a new day and I had a cheeseburger for lunch and am heavier what am I supposed to do?
My point is I am going to put that string in my racquet but it is not going to perform the same.
The next day I may get a foot and half. There is no way to be precise.
I do like your idea of doing the pre stretch all in one session to eliminate the cheeseburger factor but still not sure how one ever would get to a consistent repeatable process.
LOBALOT
Legend
This is one of the things I weed out when testing strings. If it doesn't play consistently enough to my liking until I break it, then I don't use that string. There are a lot of polys that get thrown out because of that requirement, and not too many nylons. ALU was probably one of the fastest NOs I've tested. Maybe some of the polyfibre strings were close or faster, but a lot of people still use ALU, so obviously the customers don't always care about tension loss.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
come on man. You are using the wrong metrics for consistency. Instead of minutes, measure the elongation. Set a goal, say 2" and just stop when you get there. Its not that hard. IIRC there are tools you can get at harbor freight and stretch and measure the results. @graycrait has done all the work on that front.
And to be clear you don't wrap around a pole and pull on both ends. You attach one end and pull on the other end to actually stretch the string permanently.
Its probably true that prestretching will change the characteristics. I contend that you can lower the tension and still get a similar playability. Though sure I like it as stiff as possible myself which for me is another reason to prestretch.
LOBALOT
Legend
I have never stretched poly so wasn't aware of the proper way to do it. Thanks
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Its tennis and tennis string, so "proper" is open to debate for sure. I think TW did a vid on the different ways to prestretch. For tension maintenance you need to perm elongate the string. This is their vid and they don't exactly do it right. The first is the closest option but it needs to be longer duration and a way to measure the elongation, but gives an idea.
LOBALOT
Legend
Thank you!
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
Relaxation is happening everywhere.
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
Well, I have no idea whether you are familiar with the subject at all.
I string several hundred racquets a year.
I also have an RDC to measure the tension curve.
Almost every poly loses these 2 DT within 3 hours.
The softer ones a little more - so you can take any - you will have to accept this loss.
There is no string that loses nothing - that's life.
Even very small racquets (see Saber in the picture above) relax in the same way - so it doesn't always depend on the size.
..... and how much the string drops dynamically still depends on the player (hard hitter).
There is no rule of thumb.
I have never tested this out by taking DT measurements, so take this with a grain of salt. In my experience there are some strings that maintain a level of control as they lose tension and some that tend to get a bit inconsistent as they lose tension. I don't know if this is just a tension thing or an elasticity thing or a psychological thing due to a change in feel or perception of the string. All I know is don't like it. When I get a string like this I can it immediately. This phenomenon is most common for me with polys, but I have experienced it with multis as well. I can't recall it ever being a problem with synthetic gut strings, but I have tried way more polys and multis over the years than syn guts so maybe there are some.
In any case, I would not be surprised if tension loss alone is not enough information to answer the questions that most players would attribute to tension loss.
In any case, I would not be surprised if tension loss alone is not enough information to answer the questions that most players would attribute to tension loss.
Guys, when you string a racket, after the process of stringing it is 30 DT. Next days you play 2 hours and it only drops to 28 DT.
How would you rate it in numbers?
1 is worst 10 is best.
Keep in mind that the 30 DT wasn't measured before the tennis session, it was measured directly when it came out of machine.
How would you rate it in numbers?
1 is worst 10 is best.
Keep in mind that the 30 DT wasn't measured before the tennis session, it was measured directly when it came out of machine.
einca13
Rookie
I would say that is pretty good, For me it is 32 off the stringer, 30 the next day just sitting and 28 after the first hit. So I lose 4 points from stringer to after first hit. Your description was only a 2 pt loss.
einca13
Rookie
TruPro Pure Rush/Ghostwire hybrid at 48/47. DT is usually 24 or so at the 6 hour mark and they are done for me. The from 32 to 30 to 28 etc…. drop is pretty consistent for all strings for me.
HeavyHitter
Rookie
That is very good, but it can vary from the string type, how hard you're hitting etc so don't worry too much about it. I would use it as a reference to have as a base. I tested a 1.15mm string for fun this summer and I saw it drop 6pts after one practice. My preferred DT is around 36-37 off the stringer, I usually restring or the strings break at around 30-31 DT. So I use the ERT to check when I have multiple frames I'm rotating in my bag.
