Duel Match Stats/Reports - Nadal vs Murray, Wimbledon semi-finals, 2010 & 2011

[ADuck]

Tennis effort and intensity varies by point and by situation. It's impossible to maintain peak effort for 300 straight points or something. Yes, there is such a thing as clutch where players produce outlier performance in big moments, but I actually question how much of it is real. Much of it is probably attributable to consistently raising your effort and intensity in the biggest moments, which means you had that level in the first place (i.e. superiority). I think clutch vs unclutch is related to mentality and courage which may stop players from attaining a level they have the capacity to produce in those big moments. Sometimes it stops players from the very first ball, sometimes it stops them in the bigger points. But besides that, much of it is basically who can do the most damage when they are completely locked in and moving at full intensity, which you may not get an accurate accounting of for most of the match (for the truly great ones you usually do though which is what makes them so great, and it's in these matches that true clutch can be exhibited).

Nice post. Some of it is definitely real but also a lot of it is what you said. Sometimes it results in a rubberband effect if a player is not good at maintaining intensity outside the important points. I see Thiem like this recently.

 

[clout]

This forum is tough on Murray at times, no wonder @Mainad is also so annoyed lol

This match was pretty much like most other ones between Murray and the big 3 at slams where Murray lost simply because he went up against an opponent who is a better tennis player than he is. Murray would've beaten everyone else in the field outside Fedalovic

 

[The Guru]

Tennis effort and intensity varies by point and by situation. It's impossible to maintain peak effort for 300 straight points or something. Yes, there is such a thing as clutch where players produce outlier performance in big moments, but I actually question how much of it is real. Much of it is probably attributable to consistently raising your effort and intensity in the biggest moments, which means you had that level in the first place (i.e. superiority). I think clutch vs unclutch is related to mentality and courage which may stop players from attaining a level they have the capacity to produce in those big moments. Sometimes it stops players from the very first ball, sometimes it stops them in the bigger points. But besides that, much of it is basically who can do the most damage when they are completely locked in and moving at full intensity, which you may not get an accurate accounting of for most of the match (for the truly great ones you usually do though which is what makes them so great, and it's in these matches that true clutch can be exhibited).

This makes sense in theory and I can definitely see how it applies to some players, Djokovic especially because his concentration and effort wanes the most of all big-name players and he is also the most clutch. Kyrgios is another great example. However, that doesn't make sense as to why someone like Rafa who gives consistent high-effort is so clutch. What's your explanation for that? Medvedev to a lesser degree also seems to fit the category of a high-effort clutch player in the last 18 months or so.

 

[metsman]

This makes sense in theory and I can definitely see how it applies to some players, Djokovic especially because his concentration and effort wanes the most of all big-name players and he is also the most clutch. Kyrgios is another great example. However, that doesn't make sense as to why someone like Rafa who gives consistent high-effort is so clutch. What's your explanation for that? Medvedev to a lesser degree also seems to fit the category of a high-effort clutch player in the last 18 months or so.

I think every player, no matter how much they appear to exert themselves (which can sometimes be more of a visual effect than anything), still has an extra level of focus and intensity for big points. Every great player at least. Basically I am saying that players are more likely to lock in and play their best on big points and thus the player with a naturally higher level will look better in them. Obviously things like nerves and whatever else can hold that back, which is mainly the source of what we'd call "unclutch", the converse being that a player that rarely lets nerves and mental factors hold back their ability to bring their best in bit matches/points/moments we'd call "clutch".

 

[mike danny]

This forum is tough on Murray at times, no wonder @Mainad is also so annoyed lol

This match was pretty much like most other ones between Murray and the big 3 at slams where Murray lost simply because he went up against an opponent who is a better tennis player than he is. Murray would've beaten everyone else in the field outside Fedalovic

That can literally be applied to everyone else.

Murray in 2011 was more of a glorified Ferrer than an actual threat.

 

[clout]

That can literally be applied to everyone else.

Murray in 2011 was more of a glorified Ferrer than an actual threat.

I think the three matches that would've done great good for Murray's career were 2012 Shanghai, 2013 AO and 2016 RG.

He would've been the best player in the world for a 12-month stretch between WI '12 and WI '13 had he bagged the former two, and he possibly could've been number one much sooner. With the latter. he would've won at least one major on each surface - also, he could make a claim that outside Melbourne where Novak is GOAT, Murray could hang with the Serb everywhere else. There could've been better claims at Murray being part of the big 4 and being an ATG with those three wins under his belt.

I didn't put 2012 WI because at that time, beating Fed on Centre Court was truly a mammoth task - only Rafa at his very best, along with zoning versions of Tsonga and Berdych could do the trick. I also didn't add 2012 AO because he'd probably lose to Nadal in 4 sets in the finals if he had taken out Novak in the semis.

 

[RS]

Long time no Was