Dumb Question Alert: Is it possible to reduce the swing weight of a racquet?

[FedererForehand]

I feel like I should know this but is it possible to reduce the swing weight of a racquet buy just making it more head light? For example if I lead up my APDCs to around 12 ounces- can I keep the swing weight close what it is now or will adding the weight in the handle cause the SW to go up no matter what???

 

[ronalditop]

wherever you put weight on the racquet it will increise swingweight. but the closer you put the weight to the bottom of the handle, the lower the swingweight will change.

 

[Matty G]

^^ 100% correct take a look at this sight it should help with were to add the weighthttp://www.sandiars.com/reference/racquet-customization.htm

 

[origmarm]

This is one of those "most people accept it can't be done but some think it's possible" questions. If you do a search you'll see plenty of heated argument on this one.

Essentially the answer is no or possibly very minimally (i.e. if the weight is behind your gripping point). Either way you won't achieve the kind of reduction that would make a consequential difference.

The only thing you can do is shed weight but it's minimal, for example cutting bumper guards or replacing grips for lighter ones.

 

[fuzz nation]

According to the definition or the "letter of the law" of physics, you can only reduce swing weight by actually removing mass from the racquet.

In my experiments, I've found that the swing weight issue isn't such a big deal when I add weight to the handle of a racquet. If the balance is wrong - not headlight enough - I can't maneuver it well, especially up at the net. I tried a pair of rather heavy LM Prestige mids a while back and their balance was too even for me in stock layout, so I ended up adding a whole lot of lead to their handles to the point that the balance was good for me. Playing with them was suddenly a lot more fun, but I wasn't aware that the racquets were heavier since the extra weight was down at my hand, not out on the hoop.

While I didn't make the swing weight of these racquets less, the different balance made them a lot more playable for me because they were effectively easier to handle in a more headlight set up. Later on, I got a postal scale and these "easier to use" racquets were up to 13.4 oz. If you experiment with some lead on the handle of your racquet, the good news there is that you can just peel it off if it doesn't help you. It's nothing that you can't easily undo.

 

[anirut]

^
^
A yes to fuzz nation's post.

However, if the stock racket it self is "quite" light, there's a reason why it was designed with a little more weight in the head. This is to allow more mass to make impact without the racket feeling like a log.

Now, if a light racket is customized to be more head light, you'll get the maneuverability, but the racket can be less stable and the impact won't be as good inspite of the added racket weight.

So, customize with care.

 

[FedererForehand]

Thanks guys... will take into advisement. Appreciate the thoughts.

 

[Alafter]

Trimming the bumper guard should significantly change the feel in swinging the racquet.

Cut it right down till there's only the grommets to protect the strings. Just be careful with your racquet after that.

 

[ferocious4hand]

You can also use thinner gauage strings which reduces weight in the head area

 

[Tennisguy777]

how about hitting the gym.

 

[Fedace]

It is possible if you add lead to the bottom of the racket. it will increase the overall weight but will reduce the swingweight some.

 

[psp2]

It is possible if you add lead to the bottom of the racket. it will increase the overall weight but will reduce the swingweight some.

100% FALSE. You can NOT decrease SW by adding weight to a racquet.

 

[ronalditop]

You can also use thinner gauage strings which reduces weight in the head area

that is very true. when i change from a 17 gauge to a 16 i could feel how the racquet was a little heavier.

 

[strahan918]

It is possible if you add lead to the bottom of the racket. it will increase the overall weight but will reduce the swingweight some.

Hahaha..10 char.

 

[meowmix]

It is possible if you add lead to the bottom of the racket. it will increase the overall weight but will reduce the swingweight some.

Not sure if you were being sarcastic here.

However, you CAN decrease swingweight by cutting off a portion of the handle, say half an inch. That would decrease swingweight by quite a bit. Not sure if that helps at all...

 

[Fedace]

^^^PHYSICS,,,,,people. go learn some. you have a Head light racket. add more lead to the handle or buttcap to make it even more headlight. yes, the overall weight has gone up. but so WHAT.. swingweight has gone down. if you make the racket more head light, you make the SW lower.

 

[ronalditop]

^^^ are you serious?

 

[DarthCow]

Rofl waffles Fedace.

No matter where you add weight on the racquet, it will always increase the swingweight, but in varying degrees.


To the OP... If you really want to decrease swingweight, cut a couple of inches from your handle.

 

[canadave]

^^^PHYSICS,,,,,people. go learn some. you have a Head light racket. add more lead to the handle or buttcap to make it even more headlight. yes, the overall weight has gone up. but so WHAT.. swingweight has gone down. if you make the racket more head light, you make the SW lower.

From the Tennis Warehouse webpage on swingweight: (http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/newspage.html?cref=1954)

"What is Swingweight?

Swingweight is the best measure of how heavy a racquet feels when swung, i.e. maneuverability. Also known as Moment of Inertia or Second Moment; swingweight is dependent on several factors, including racquet weight, length, balance and head size.

A racquet with a heavy swingweight is more powerful than a light swingweight racquet (all things being equal), but will be less maneuverable. A heavy swingweight racquet is not necessarily a heavier racquet. It can be relatively light in overall weight by placing the majority of weight in the head.

Swingweight can be increased by adding weight above the pivot point (where the racquet is gripped) or by increasing length. Swingweight (like overall weight) cannot be reduced unless the bumper is removed or racquet length is reduced."

Anything else you want to add, Fedace? Perhaps you'd like to email TW and tell them they're wrong about swingweight?

Just teasing....what you said actually sounds like it'd intuitively make sense, but truth is it's the way TW tells it.

 

[Raiha]

Intuitively it does make sense, if you add weight to the handle the racket becomes harder to swing around. So de facto the swing weight is reduced, especially if you equate swing weight to head-heaviness.

 

[Fedace]

You are all ignorant. Once again simple PHYSICS. the racket has to be head light to begin with though. more headlight the racket is more easier the racket is to swing, so less swingweight. I have done this many times with Bosworth tennis. ALL you do is make the racket more head Light, then less swingweight... i REST my case.

 

[Richie Rich]

You are all ignorant. Once again simple PHYSICS. the racket has to be head light to begin with though. more headlight the racket is more easier the racket is to swing, so less swingweight. I have done this many times with Bosworth tennis. ALL you do is make the racket more head Light, then less swingweight... i REST my case.

my goodness you are a complete tool. just when i thought i had read everything you keep coming up with gems.

 

[canadave]

You are all ignorant. Once again simple PHYSICS. the racket has to be head light to begin with though. more headlight the racket is more easier the racket is to swing, so less swingweight. I have done this many times with Bosworth tennis. ALL you do is make the racket more head Light, then less swingweight... i REST my case.

OK...then do us all a favour, and email TW and let them know that their web page explaining swingweight is completely wrong, and share your knowledge and correct them. Their email address is info@tenniswarehouse.com

There is nothing sadder than reading posts by someone who's more interested in not admitting an error than in learning

 

[SteveI]

Trimming the bumper guard should significantly change the feel in swinging the racquet.

Cut it right down till there's only the grommets to protect the strings. Just be careful with your racquet after that.

Very much so. Check out the specs for the PK Core 10 with and without bumpergaurd. It is a major change. 46 points of SW.. 290 to 336...major

http://web.archive.org/web/20040604162351/www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCPK-KC10.html

Regards,
Steve

 

[Fedace]

Trust me and believe me on this. i actually made this happen on several frames. but it only works if the frame is Head-Light to start with. with head heavy frames like the hammers, it won't work. but with head light frames like the prostaff, it works EVERY time. i measured the SW after the customization. so THANK YOU for your arguments.

 

[ronalditop]

Trust me and believe me on this. i actually made this happen on several frames. but it only works if the frame is Head-Light to start with. with head heavy frames like the hammers, it won't work. but with head light frames like the prostaff, it works EVERY time. i measured the SW after the customization. so THANK YOU for your arguments.

if that's true then putting a lot of weight in the handle would make the racquet swing extremely fast, according to your thinking.

 

[travlerajm]

Putting weight on the handle DOES make the racquet swing faster, even though the SW is slightly increased.

Your racquet and arm together have a natural swingspeed, where the swingspeed obeys the laws of physics for a physical pendulum. If you add mass to the top portion of a pendulum (near the axis of rotation), the speed of the pendulum increases.

But the arm-racquet system is actually more like a double pendulum, so the position you add mass on the handle really affects how the racquet swings. If you add mass to the butt, it increases the speed of your racquet tip, but it also increases the speed of your hand. If you add mass near the top of the grip, it will increase the racquet tip speed, but your hand speed will be reduced -- this makes it possible to tune your balance so that the racquet stays in the same plane through the contact point. For most people, this happens when MR^2 = 380-400 kg-cm^2. If you are taller than 6 ft, it will be on the low end of this range. If shorter, the optimum balance will be on the high end of this range.

 

[sureshs]

We have been over this before - there is no way by which to decrease swingweight while adding mass.

Just look at the formula for moment of inertia and notice that the r term is squared - which direction the mass is does not matter, positive or negative. Any added mass has to contribute a positive number to the total. If r was not squared, like in center of mass, it does make a difference.

The feeling of being easier to swing with more mass in the head can be true for a variety of reasons e.g., SW not telling the full story, lack of precision about the "feel", or simply psychological.

 

[Richie Rich]

Trust me and believe me on this. i actually made this happen on several frames. but it only works if the frame is Head-Light to start with. with head heavy frames like the hammers, it won't work. but with head light frames like the prostaff, it works EVERY time. i measured the SW after the customization. so THANK YOU for your arguments.

Putting weight on the handle DOES make the racquet swing faster, even though the SW is slightly increased.

Your racquet and arm together have a natural swingspeed, where the swingspeed obeys the laws of physics for a physical pendulum. If you add mass to the top portion of a pendulum (near the axis of rotation), the speed of the pendulum increases.

But the arm-racquet system is actually more like a double pendulum, so the position you add mass on the handle really affects how the racquet swings. If you add mass to the butt, it increases the speed of your racquet tip, but it also increases the speed of your hand. If you add mass near the top of the grip, it will increase the racquet tip speed, but your hand speed will be reduced -- this makes it possible to tune your balance so that the racquet stays in the same plane through the contact point. For most people, this happens when MR^2 = 380-400 kg-cm^2. If you are taller than 6 ft, it will be on the low end of this range. If shorter, the optimum balance will be on the high end of this range.

you guys are related aren't you?

 

[Blank]

Putting weight on the handle DOES make the racquet swing faster, even though the SW is slightly increased.

you guys are related aren't you?

Richie, I think what trav said is actually to contradict Fedace's false arguement.
Trav's reasoning looks valid to me

 

[rich s]

It is possible if you add lead to the bottom of the racket. it will increase the overall weight but will reduce the swingweight some.

Adding weight/mass ANYWHERE on a raquet WILL NOT reduce swingweight.

 

[rich s]

^^^PHYSICS,,,,,people. go learn some. you have a Head light racket. add more lead to the handle or buttcap to make it even more headlight. yes, the overall weight has gone up. but so WHAT.. swingweight has gone down. if you make the racket more head light, you make the SW lower.

Sorry Fedace but you are the one that needs to learn DYNAMICS.

Swingweight is Moment of Inertia (MOI)......the equation for MOI = m(d^2) where m = mass (either kg or slugs)

the only way to make MOI negative with respect to mass is to make mass negative.

Negative mass means reducing/removing mass......you cannot reduce/remove mass by adding mass.

Sorry

 

[Alafter]

Trust me and believe me on this. i actually made this happen on several frames. but it only works if the frame is Head-Light to start with. with head heavy frames like the hammers, it won't work. but with head light frames like the prostaff, it works EVERY time. i measured the SW after the customization. so THANK YOU for your arguments.

Oh dear. So, what's the climate like on your planet?

 

[Fedace]

I have already scientifically proven this fact so it is NO use arguing with me on it.

 

[HeadPrestige]

you have been dis-proven many times in this thread fedace...

i just don't get you

 

[Fedace]

you have been dis-proven many times in this thread fedace...

i just don't get you

Disproven ??? yes, maybe by misguided opinions. but i have FACTS. SW is determined by Static weight, Balance point and length of the racket. I REST my case. so if everything else is equal, you make the racket more head light, then your SW decreases...

 

[Alafter]

Disproven ??? yes, maybe by misguided opinions. but i have FACTS. SW is determined by Static weight, Balance point and length of the racket. I REST my case. so if everything else is equal, you make the racket more head light, then your SW decreases...

Static weight increases when you add weight to the butt.

Why dont you just settle this by writing down the formula of your swingweight or the details on how you measure it?

 

[Blank]

Something to share (http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/delusional-disorder):

Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.

People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted.

Although delusions might be a symptom of more common disorders, such as schizophrenia, delusional disorder itself is rather rare. Delusional disorder most often occurs in middle to late life and is slightly more common in women than in men.
Types of Delusional Disorder

There are different types of delusional disorder based on the main theme of the delusions experienced. The types of delusional disorder include:

1. Erotomanic: Someone with this type of delusional disorder believes that another person, often someone important or famous, is in love with him or her. The person might attempt to contact the object of the delusion, and stalking behavior is not uncommon.
2. Grandiose: A person with this type of delusional disorder has an over-inflated sense of worth, power, knowledge, or identity. The person might believe he or she has a great talent or has made an important discovery.
3. Jealous: A person with this type of delusional disorder believes that his or her spouse or sexual partner is unfaithful.
4. Persecutory: People with this type of delusional disorder believe that they (or someone close to them) are being mistreated, or that someone is spying on them or planning to harm them. It is not uncommon for people with this type of delusional disorder to make repeated complaints to legal authorities.
5. Somatic: A person with this type of delusional disorder believes that he or she has a physical defect or medical problem.
6. Mixed: People with this type of delusional disorder have two or more of the types of delusions listed above.

 

[msc886]

Disproven ??? yes, maybe by misguided opinions. but i have FACTS. SW is determined by Static weight, Balance point and length of the racket. I REST my case. so if everything else is equal, you make the racket more head light, then your SW decreases...

As Alafter has said. When you ADD weight to the handle, you do make it more headlight but you're forgetting that you also increase the static weight. i don't know where you learn YOUR physics from but if you take that argument to your local college/university's physics department, you'll be laughed at.

 

[BreakPoint]

^^^PHYSICS,,,,,people. go learn some. you have a Head light racket. add more lead to the handle or buttcap to make it even more headlight. yes, the overall weight has gone up. but so WHAT.. swingweight has gone down. if you make the racket more head light, you make the SW lower.

How can the swingweight be lower when the weight of the head (the part that's moving the most when you swing a racquet) hasn't changed at all?

 

[SFrazeur]

You are all ignorant. Once again simple PHYSICS. the racket has to be head light to begin with though. more headlight the racket is more easier the racket is to swing, so less swingweight. I have done this many times with Bosworth tennis. ALL you do is make the racket more head Light, then less swingweight... i REST my case.

From racquettech.com:

How do you change swingweight?First, you cannot (without drastic measures) lower a racquet's swingweight). That is why it is best to buy a racquet that is lighter than you will ultimately play with, because all customizations, whether it be for balance, swingweight, or twistweight, will increase the weight of the racquet. You increase swingweight by adding lead tape anywhyere along the length of the racquet. The farther away from the 3.94-inch axis you add the lead tape, the more the swingweight will be increased. Or conversely, the farther away from the axis you add weight, the less you have to add to achieve any desired increase.The 3 and 9 o'clock positions (usually the widest points on the head) are the most popular positions to add weight because that will also maximize twistweight (stability).

Racquettech is by the The United States Racquet Stringers Association. Are they "ignorant?"

-SF

 

[SFrazeur]

Here is another ignorant person: (For those actually interested in this stuff you should read the entire article for context. Fedace should not have any problem with it however. )

If you add 30 or 40 grams to the handle, the racquet will feel heavier but it will not be much more difficult to swing because the swingweight stays almost the same.

So adding weight there does not greatly change the swing weight. But what does that ignorant fool Rod Cross know.

Professors Howard Brody and Rod Cross, the top two experts on the physics of tennis in the world

http://www.usrsa.com/store/ptot.html

I would suggest reading the article if you haven't Fedace, but hey, I'm probably just an ignorant fool too.
http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2006/04/racquet_handle_weighting_and_m.html

-SF

 

[Alafter]

I would advice you to add at least 300 grams to the buttcap. It will reduce your swingweight to 0.

 

[alfa164164]

It is easy to reduce the SW on certain Head models by replacing the CAPS with a standard bumper guard and grommets -ex. use Head Microgel Radical MP bumper guard and grommets on the Prestige MP, significant reduction in SW, as well as a reduction in static weight, more HL balance, but you have less mass plowing through the ball, there is a trade off.

 

[Irvin]

I feel like I should know this but is it possible to reduce the swing weight of a racquet buy just making it more head light? For example if I lead up my APDCs to around 12 ounces- can I keep the swing weight close what it is now or will adding the weight in the handle cause the SW to go up no matter what???

Short of cutting off some length of the racket you can not reduce the swing weight.

Irvin

 

[sureshs]

How can the swingweight be lower when the weight of the head (the part that's moving the most when you swing a racquet) hasn't changed at all?

He is pulling everyone's legs here. Did you see the smiley after his last post?

 

[Djokovicfan4life]

Wait a minute, is Fedace serious here? Please tell me he isn't and I just might have a tiny sliver of faith left in mankind.

 

[SFrazeur]

You two have more faith than I do.

-SF

 

[ls206]

You two have more faith than I do.

-SF

It's a tricky one, either he is extremely smart and knows just what to say to get a certain reaction without being obvious.
or...
he's completely serious...

 

[Richie Rich]

Richie, I think what trav said is actually to contradict Fedace's false arguement.
Trav's reasoning looks valid to me

fair enough on this one. but go back and read some of traveler's "theories" and, well, you decide. :lol: