Each Countries Greatest Tennis Player (both men and women)

Mustard said:
Thinking about it, she did and she didn't. It's like asking if Murray represents Scotland. Seles represented Yugoslavia of which Serbia was a part, like Murray represents Great Britain of which Scotland is a part. Adding to this of course is that Seles was an ethnic Hungarian rather than a Serb, although she spoke both languages.
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No, it's more like asking if Murray represented Wales, in the event that the 3 countries split up.
 
King No1e said:
I'd say Connors edges out Sampras for USA.
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Maybe you need to re-check their career stats at the USO. Of course Jimbo gets credit for winning it across all surfaces, but both won 5 USO's and their W-L records there aren't remotely close. Pete takes it.
 
Just to explain how the citizenship worked in Yugoslavia: one was a citizen of his republic of birth (Serbia in Seleš case), and by that virtue a citizen of Yugoslavian Federation. Taking that analogy, it is not wrong to say that she represented Serbia too, in despite of playing under Yugoslav flag, just like all other sports people of that era. Now that Yugoslavia is no more, her Serbian citizenship still stands, unless she renounced it.
The fact that she was of ethnic Hungarian origin doesn't erase the fact that she was a Serbian and Yugoslavian citizen, born and raised in Serbia.

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BeatlesFan said:
Maybe you need to re-check their career stats at the USO. Of course Jimbo gets credit for winning it across all surfaces, but both won 5 USO's and their W-L records there aren't remotely close. Pete takes it.
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Connors has more match wins than any man in the open era, doesn't he?
 
BlueB said:
Just to explain how the citizenship worked in Yugoslavia: one was a citizen of his republic of birth (Serbia in Seleš case), and by that virtue a citizen of Yugoslavian Federation. Taking that analogy, it is not wrong to say that she represented Serbia too, in despite of playing under Yugoslav flag, just like all other sports people of that era. Now that Yugoslavia is no more, her Serbian citizenship still stands, unless she renounced it.
The fact that she was of ethnic Hungarian origin doesn't erase the fact that she was a Serbian and Yugoslavian citizen, born and raised in Serbia.

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Seles has Serbian, American and Hungarian citizenship today, although before 1994 just Serbian/Yugoslavian.
 
EloQuent said:
No, it's more like asking if Murray represented Wales, in the event that the 3 countries split up.
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No one in a right mind would claim that, but I'm damn sure the Scotland would proudly list him as the best Scottish player ever.
Same with Seles...

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paranoidandroid said:
murygoat wasn’t Scottish when he won 3 slams, 2 gold medals and sat atop the rankings. ;)
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When Murray won his 3 slams, 2 Olympic golds, 14 masters and went to world number one, he's "England's golden jewel." But whenever he doesn't win he's, "that Scottish dude who can't get it done." Kind of similar to what just happened with Mesut Ozil - when he scores and the team wins, he's German and when he doesn't score and they lose, he's a Turkish immigrant despite being born in Germany and living there his whole life
 
BlueB said:
Not a Serb, but yes Serbian.

What you saying is like if US would reject all the people of, say, Irish origin as non-American, in despite of being born there and having the citizenship.

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It's not about rejection. Seles never identified with Serbia as a political entity. She never held Serbian citizenship - she'd become American by then.
 
BlueB said:
You are wrong, I explained it few posts above. She had and probably still has Serbian citizenship.

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Maybe she has Serbian citizenship, what of it? She also has Hungarian citizenship. Plenty of players have more than one citizenship. But she never played for Serbia. She played first for Yugoslavia, then for the US.
 
EloQuent said:
Maybe she has Serbian citizenship, what of it? She also has Hungarian citizenship. Plenty of players have more than one citizenship. But she never played for Serbia. She played first for Yugoslavia, then for the US.
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Dude, she was born into Serbian (and Yugoslavian) citizenship and won 8 of her slams before getting the US. Hungarian was given to her way after her career ended.
The fact that she played under Yugoslavian flag, just like all athletes back then, doesn't cancel her Serbian citizenship.
Following your logic, none of the great Croatian athletes we mentioned in the other thread can't be considered Croatian because they played in Yugoslav era, under Yugoslavian flag...

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BlueB said:
Dude, she was born into Serbian (and Yugoslavian) citizenship and won 8 of her slams before getting the US. Hungarian was given to her way after her career ended.
The fact that she played under Yugoslavian flag, just like all athletes back then, doesn't cancel her Serbian citizenship.
Following your logic, none of the great Croatian athletes we mentioned in the other thread can't be considered Croatian because they played in Yugoslav era, under Yugoslavian flag...

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Correct, I would not consider them Croatian for this concept.
 
Italy Panatta (men) Schiavone (women)
Japan Nishikori (men) Osaka (women)....although I want to give a shout to Sugiyama for a stellar doubles career
 
seles played under YU as a serbian player (because back then it was only serbia and montenegro in YU, 1993) until the stabbing to lose the ranking completely after and would come back in 1995 as an unranked player. the americans were able to arrange for her to come back as no1 on same ranking like stefi and that was the biggest reason she changed her citizenship (1994). during the first she was hated, stabbed and stripped of all points and with the second she could be again no1.

best croatian was ivanisevic and not cilic.
 
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clout said:
When Murray won his 3 slams, 2 Olympic golds, 14 masters and went to world number one, he's "England's golden jewel." But whenever he doesn't win he's, "that Scottish dude who can't get it done." Kind of similar to what just happened with Mesut Ozil - when he scores and the team wins, he's German and when he doesn't score and they lose, he's a Turkish immigrant despite being born in Germany and living there his whole life
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No, he's Britain's golden jewel. No one would call him English.
 
Nice to have some consideration with active younger players now. Sinner for Italy, obviously Tsitsipas for Greece, Shap or Felix could overtake Raonic for Canada and then the Russian question with both Rublev and Medvedev vying to top in my opinion the two headed dragon of Kafelnikov/Safin. Rune and Ruud already the greatest for their country given the lack of previous contention like Tsitsipas.

And honestly why can't Thiem be considered better all around player than 1 Slam Final Thomas Muster?
 
EloQuent said:
Maybe she has Serbian citizenship, what of it? She also has Hungarian citizenship. Plenty of players have more than one citizenship. But she never played for Serbia. She played first for Yugoslavia, then for the US.
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She actually played for Yugoslavia until its dissolution at the start of 1992, then for Serbia & Montenegro (even though the name Yugoslavia remained to exist, it was a country of just two ex-Yugoslav republics) until the stabbing incident, and after that she represented the US. She was born and raised in Serbia so saying that she is a Serb who played for Serbia isn't wrong. It's her home country.

And her Hungarian ethnicity doesn't change anything, there are Hungarians, Croats, Albanians, Slovaks, Bosniaks etc who were born in Serbia and have the citizenship. It's like saying Sampras represented Greece and not the US.
 
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